I cant understand why people hate 13 req weapons so much. Every decent warrior, ranger, etc buid has at least around 13 points into that mastery, anything lower, is simply not worth it. Yes, there are some nice builds that can do away with less, but those are few.
Most builds that revolve around causing high physical damage have at least 13 or more, so why do people care so damn much? Is this some silly elitist tradition to say "ewwwwwww!!" when you see a 13req?
For my warrior or ranger a 13 req weapon is just as good as the 8 req. It's the stats and the look that matter.
What's up with all this hate toward 13req weapons?
ibex333
Murder In China
Quote from Guru's Game Mechanics article.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Game Mechanics
Many of the weapons that you'll find require you to have a certain level in a linked attribute to be effective - Swords that require 9 Swordsmanship, Bows that require 7 Marksmanship, and the like. If you do not meet the requirements on a given weapon, your effectiveness with it will be greatly reduced.
In simplest terms, if you do not meet the requirements on a given weapon it will deal damage like a newbie weapon of the same type. Thus, if you find a 10-20 wand but don't meet the requirements, it'll deal damage like a pathetic 2-4 wand of the same type. However, the weapon will keep all modifiers. Thus, if you were using a 14-20 Sword of Enchanting (+20% enchantment durations) and didn't meet the requirements, it would only deal the 2-4 damage, but you would still get the +20% enchantment duration from the modifier. This includes internal modifiers - some weapons have built-in additions to damage, and these will remain even if you don't meet the requirements. This is most readily apparent on a focus - if you find a normal +10 focus and don't meet the requirement, you will only get +3 energy from equipping it. However, if you get a +12 focus - a +10 focus with an internal +2 modifier - you'll get 5 energy from equipping it, even if you don't meet the requirement. Thus you are always better off using a weapon with a requirement you can reach - unless the only thing you want access to is the weapon's modifiers. |
j_unit66
in pvp req doenst matter for most char except mabye a few builds since u have 16 in ur mastery, but in pve most wars use stances and dont want to have to put 13 into theyre weapon so they can pump up tactics more
Arkantos
nothing wrong with a req13 item...if lots of your build have at least 13 for that req.
Opeth11
Maybe they just hate the number 13. D:
Da Immortal King
bad luck?
ibex333
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Murder In China
Quote from Guru's Game Mechanics article.
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That stuff you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with my main point. I know perfectly well that no one wants to use the item if they dont meet the requirement for it.
My point was, that most builds that revolve around physical damage will use at least 13 anyway!
Someone here mentioned that most warriors in PvE use stances, therefore they need a weapon that doesnt have a high req. First of all, by far not all warriors use stances, and those that do, will probably put out most of their damage from their skills, - NOT their weapon.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the more points you have into your weapon mastery, the more damage, and critical hits you will do, no? If you are using a low req weapon, you are not really relying on it, but on your skills to do the most damage.
Even if everything I just said is completely false, there has to be many people that can take advantage of the 13 req. However, it seems like no one wants these weapons xept me.
Wartime Hero
The lower req. on the weapon = more critical hits. And actually, in contradiction to what someone said about the req. not matter in PvP, your actually wrong, since with the lower req, the more critical hits you'll get.
Mr D J
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wartime Hero
The lower req. on the weapon = more critical hits. And actually, in contradiction to what someone said about the req. not matter in PvP, your actually wrong, since with the lower req, the more critical hits you'll get.
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one more wrong person... req DOESN'T affect criticals in any way, attribute set up does. At 12 Axe Mastery you deal 100% dmg of your weapon and at 16 you deal 150% or something im not sure. REQ Doesn't affect it at all.
monty123
Yeah, I have a fairly good req13 chaos axe. 13^50, +25 hp, Sundering(10/9, well its not the best but place holding for a zealous). I haven't tried to sell it but probably no one will buy it, the only ones will be the ones that put like 300 gold in the trade box.
Former Ruling
Actually on most of my bow ranger builds (barring Straight Spike builds), only run 12.
Any higher than 12 and the usefulness of the lvl just drops sharply, so the attribute is better spend elsewere.
On Warriors you tend to pump more in though yes. BUt still lvl13 keeps the weapon out of the hands of secondary warriors, like Bunny Thumpers.
Any higher than 12 and the usefulness of the lvl just drops sharply, so the attribute is better spend elsewere.
On Warriors you tend to pump more in though yes. BUt still lvl13 keeps the weapon out of the hands of secondary warriors, like Bunny Thumpers.
SnoopJeDi
If you're running a beastmaster build, and wielding a req 13 bow, you need to re-examine yourself. Eles and mesmers might often split their attributes 3 ways, and not be able to sacrifice 13 levels in one attribute.
There's no hate towards them, they're just goofy with anything but a build focused on that attribute.
There's no hate towards them, they're just goofy with anything but a build focused on that attribute.
fiery
Higher req, more attributes can't be able to be spread out more, if referring to say an axe 13 is no biggie, the more the better.
Murder In China
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ibex333
That stuff you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with my main point. I know perfectly well that no one wants to use the item if they dont meet the requirement for it.
My point was, that most builds that revolve around physical damage will use at least 13 anyway! Someone here mentioned that most warriors in PvE use stances, therefore they need a weapon that doesnt have a high req. First of all, by far not all warriors use stances, and those that do, will probably put out most of their damage from their skills, - NOT their weapon. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the more points you have into your weapon mastery, the more damage, and critical hits you will do, no? If you are using a low req weapon, you are not really relying on it, but on your skills to do the most damage. Even if everything I just said is completely false, there has to be many people that can take advantage of the 13 req. However, it seems like no one wants these weapons xept me. |
But when you convert back to PvE, you don't want to have 13 attribute points in your Weapon Mastery in a farming group. You would want a lower requirement weapon to deal some damage.
Rayne Nightfyre
Bottom line is...
Low requirement = high versatility.
High requirement = low versatility.
Good players obviously want to be versatile in their builds, as it leaves more options open.
Low requirement = high versatility.
High requirement = low versatility.
Good players obviously want to be versatile in their builds, as it leaves more options open.
The Muffen Man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rayne Nightfyre
Bottom line is...
Low requirement = high versatility. High requirement = low versatility. Good players obviously want to be versatile in their builds, as it leaves more options open. |
I use many req 13 weapons on my warrior in pvp all max ie 15^50 or in stance and i have an advantage over pvp characters because I have 4 weapon combos
AxeMe
There are players who buy the weapon, intending to use it for a while and then - perhaps - to resell it. Since the market price for the weapon goes up enormously as the requirement goes down (partially for the practical reasons mentioned by earlier posters, partially because of the desire to have a perfect or nearly perfect weapon out of vanity) there's the idea that a low requirement weapon will be easier to sell and that it'll bring a higher price.
Me? I customize any weapon that I plan to use on a regular basis. So I love to find 12 and 13 requirement weapons or to buy them ... they're bargains.
Me? I customize any weapon that I plan to use on a regular basis. So I love to find 12 and 13 requirement weapons or to buy them ... they're bargains.
Batius
I never understand why having a low req. increases the price of items. I agree with ibex, most warriors will have high attributes anyway. There seems to be mixed idea about whether lower req means more criticals. The only time a low req. would be necesary would be for someone who solos or uses skills to deal damage, like has been said. I myself solo with only 12 for swordsmanship, so req 13's would be no good, but I couldn't care less about using a req. 12.
fiery
Low req, more attributes can be spreaded out more.
SnoopJeDi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Muffen Man
Good players yes in pve and yes in anything but a warrior and damage rangereven then maybe not so much ranger in pvp. A warrior in pvp will have 15-16 in his chosen weapon so a req 13 is as good as a req 7.
I use many req 13 weapons on my warrior in pvp all max ie 15^50 or in stance and i have an advantage over pvp characters because I have 4 weapon combos |
The Muffen Man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SnoopJeDi
What about a character who wants to focus more on supporting shouts, while still doling out decent damage? It doesn't make sense to say "no, versatility isn't versatile in PvP."
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Mandy Memory
It matters more for rangers than for warriors. A warrior can take a req 13 anyday, because they either have 16 mastery...or 0 and use stances (or have a lame build). For rangers, many people run 13 11 11, and that 13 isnt always marksmanship.
False and False...Stop spreading lies...someone might believe you. (AKA dont spread lies so the stuff you farm for is worth more)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wartime Hero
The lower req. on the weapon = more critical hits. And actually, in contradiction to what someone said about the req. not matter in PvP, your actually wrong, since with the lower req, the more critical hits you'll get.
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Maria The Princess
that was probably said before, but i prefer to use lower req weapons cuz i can change my buid. as ranger, i dont always put 16 in marksmanship unless im going as a spiker or some other damag edealer (like in Tombs or an 8 ppl FOW party), to solo ice imps or to solo FOW i need lots of expertise and wilderness survival, AND i need my bow to work as a max dmg bow, so having to put only 9 pts in it, helps to make rest of my attributes that i need. sometimes i dont need to do a massive dmg with the bow, i just want to poison someone for as long as possible (with high WS) and run away, then come back to re-poison (long poison=high ws, saving my energy and running away=expertise) and meanwhile dealing damage also helps to get over with faster...
SnoopJeDi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Muffen Man
You canot be versatile as a warrior in pvp you just dont have the enrgy for it, thats what rangers are for.
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Even as a ranger, you can't honestly expect to have 13 marksmanship and play a strong backup role.
There are builds that allow a req 13 weapon. If all you do is B/P, roll with it then. However, locking yourself in is a bad idea. Sure, you can have more weapons, but I'd prefer to have less, more versatile ones that apply in multiple situations and builds, not just "omgdmg" ones.
Reikai
the difference between
1~8 damage and 10~25 damage using 8 marksmanship.
(i'm guessing @ numbers but you get my point.)
1~8 damage and 10~25 damage using 8 marksmanship.
(i'm guessing @ numbers but you get my point.)
batou
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ibex333
Every decent warrior, ranger, etc buid has at least around 13 points into that mastery, anything lower, is simply not worth it. Yes, there are some nice builds that can do away with less, but those are few.
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Phaern Majes
Well except for the increase in chance to crit. Not to mention the fact that it still is extra damage, even if not alot. Or the fact that your skills of that attribute still go up steadily, which might increase damage even more. But besides all that yeah it isn't worth going past 12 points....
ophidian409
In PVP, if you are a warrior but you are without at least 15 XX mystery people will call you a noob becasue you are suppose to deal decent damage.
In PVE, however you distribute your attribute people don't call you a noob becasue they just don't care, warrior is a stance meat shield.
In PVE, however you distribute your attribute people don't call you a noob becasue they just don't care, warrior is a stance meat shield.
Haggard
Previous posters are correct that after 12 the damage increases on standard hits arent worth it, but don't forget that it improves your attack skills significantly coupled with the higher crit hit chance.
Hei Ne Ken
I have seen a chart that explained weapon req vs. attribute lvl.
If i remember correctly, It went something like this:
with a req.10 weapon @ 12 in that weapons mastery you will do 100% dmg
if you raise the attrib. to 13 you do 103% dmg,,,and so on..
so a req.8 bow with 16 in marksmanship would do more damage then any higher rec bow.
This makes weapon prices higher for lower req. weapons.
i cannot seem to find the chart. plz post it if anyone has it..ty
If i remember correctly, It went something like this:
with a req.10 weapon @ 12 in that weapons mastery you will do 100% dmg
if you raise the attrib. to 13 you do 103% dmg,,,and so on..
so a req.8 bow with 16 in marksmanship would do more damage then any higher rec bow.
This makes weapon prices higher for lower req. weapons.
i cannot seem to find the chart. plz post it if anyone has it..ty
Savio
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
Attribute
Level Percent of
Weapon Damage
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%
Attribute
Level Percent of
Weapon Damage
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%
Mandy Memory
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hei Ne Ken
so a req.8 bow with 16 in marksmanship would do more damage then any higher rec bow.
This makes weapon prices higher for lower req. weapons. |
If you have a req 1 max damage bow and have 16 marksmanship you will do the same damage as a req 16 max damage bow.
Str0b0
It's mostly because low requirement weapons allow you to do max damage and still have attribute points to play with in other areas not related to the weapon specific attribute. Example a warrior might want a req 8 sword so he can put more points into tactics or one of his secondary attributes as opposed to having a req. 13 weapon where you have to spend those points to get the max damage thus limiting your attribute point pool.
Don Zardeone
The reply to end all replies:
Let's take 4 weapons:
all max damage
A req 9 spoon
A req 10 spoon
A req 12 spoon
And a req13 spoon
Let's say i'm a chef and my weaponmaster attribute is set to 12
The req9 spoon will hit the soup for 30 damage
The req10 spoon will hit the same soup for the same 30 damage
The req 12 spoon will hit the exact same soup for the exact same 30 damage
The req 13 spoon will probably hit the soup for 27 damage
Let's say I get some more training in cookingschool and I can now raise my weaponmastery attribute to 16
The req 9 spoon will do 35 damage
The req 10 spoon will do 35 damage too
The pretty sexy req12 spoon will do an unbelieveable 35 damage
and omg... the req13 spoon will do 35 damage!!!
^That's the way it works.
Ok now I'm hungry
Let's take 4 weapons:
all max damage
A req 9 spoon
A req 10 spoon
A req 12 spoon
And a req13 spoon
Let's say i'm a chef and my weaponmaster attribute is set to 12
The req9 spoon will hit the soup for 30 damage
The req10 spoon will hit the same soup for the same 30 damage
The req 12 spoon will hit the exact same soup for the exact same 30 damage
The req 13 spoon will probably hit the soup for 27 damage
Let's say I get some more training in cookingschool and I can now raise my weaponmastery attribute to 16
The req 9 spoon will do 35 damage
The req 10 spoon will do 35 damage too
The pretty sexy req12 spoon will do an unbelieveable 35 damage
and omg... the req13 spoon will do 35 damage!!!
^That's the way it works.
Ok now I'm hungry
JeremyC1234
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
The reply to end all replies:
Let's take 4 weapons: all max damage A req 9 spoon A req 10 spoon A req 12 spoon And a req13 spoon Let's say i'm a chef and my weaponmaster attribute is set to 12 The req9 spoon will hit the soup for 30 damage The req10 spoon will hit the same soup for the same 30 damage The req 12 spoon will hit the exact same soup for the exact same 30 damage The req 13 spoon will probably hit the soup for 27 damage Let's say I get some more training in cookingschool and I can now raise my weaponmastery attribute to 16 The req 9 spoon will do 35 damage The req 10 spoon will do 35 damage too The pretty sexy req12 spoon will do an unbelieveable 35 damage and omg... the req13 spoon will do 35 damage!!! ^That's the way it works. Ok now I'm hungry |
Blacktemplar
Lower req = more versatility but way overpriced especially 15^50
Higher req = less versatility but almost always affordable
High req or low req it's always best to have lower req it's a fact. However, the outragous prices for a req 10 15^50 to a req 8 15^50 for versatility and vanity is hallarious. gg for req 8 15^50 prices over 100k + ecto
Higher req = less versatility but almost always affordable
High req or low req it's always best to have lower req it's a fact. However, the outragous prices for a req 10 15^50 to a req 8 15^50 for versatility and vanity is hallarious. gg for req 8 15^50 prices over 100k + ecto
The Kensai
Thread should be closed now, Spoon guy just gave you the EXACT answer this post needed
Manic Smile
It is very rarely for versitility...I mean you can max 2 lines if so you choose and have 3 points in the last one...with runes + helm that's 16 13 3
My War/Me runs 16 10 10 3...how much more versitility do you need there?
silly wammos...
It's all about the elitist nature of the majority of the GW players. Everyone wants perfection for the bragging rights.
My War/Me runs 16 10 10 3...how much more versitility do you need there?
silly wammos...
It's all about the elitist nature of the majority of the GW players. Everyone wants perfection for the bragging rights.