As you may know, a lot of people are saying that Minion Master Necros are going to own it all in 12v12. Well, it's so simply countered, in a way that is STILL a lot effective without minion masters around, that we, rangers, are going to be even more popular. In 10 seconds, you can just get rid of his army as a whole. And you'd still be put in the best position to be the best damage-dealer PvP has ever seen...
Barrage + Judge's Insight FTW (not a new build of course). Minions can't last at all (taking crazy dmg with Holy-type of dmg). And you'll find yourself in A LOT of situations with enemies grouped together, justifying the use of Barrage.
Watchout for those damn Mesmers and Curses Necros tho.
The future of 12v12? Look no further than Rangers.
Iskrah
Shifty Five Monk
Don't Forget that EOE owns the crap out of minnions 
. Believe me I've seen an army go down in seconds. Also I read somewhere that they are gonna have more ranger skills that induce the dazed condition which we be effective against casters, not greatly due to condition removal but u can still factor it in. I'm really looking forward to new ranger elites.
. Believe me I've seen an army go down in seconds. Also I read somewhere that they are gonna have more ranger skills that induce the dazed condition which we be effective against casters, not greatly due to condition removal but u can still factor it in. I'm really looking forward to new ranger elites.
Huntmaster
Cripshot or Pin Down is fun in 12v12, seeing as mobility is a HUGE part of 12v12.. Cripple a war and he's useless.
Pin Down + Oath Shot is fun, because then you can utilize other Oath shot things, like Whirling and such.
Pin Down + Oath Shot is fun, because then you can utilize other Oath shot things, like Whirling and such.
Reikai
2 words.
Edge Bomb.
Edge Bomb.
unholy guardian
traps own minions :'( in a ra my army of 10 went down ._.
dagger bird
hey im a mm and i beg to differ
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution
Iskrah
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger bird
hey im a mm and i beg to differ
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution You didn't get the point.
Holy Damage from Judge's Insight. Every single hit will be around 150. Multiply it by 6 and feel it coming every 2.2 second on your so-called "army". I wonder if i kept a screenshot somewhere...
3 hits and bybye. Even for your bigass flesh golem that can not last against that type of dmg.
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution You didn't get the point.
Holy Damage from Judge's Insight. Every single hit will be around 150. Multiply it by 6 and feel it coming every 2.2 second on your so-called "army". I wonder if i kept a screenshot somewhere...
3 hits and bybye. Even for your bigass flesh golem that can not last against that type of dmg.
Huntmaster
NR, QZ, EoE, Barrage.
Good luck saving those minions.
Good luck saving those minions.
ColaManiac
1 ranger with melandru's arrows and 1 with poison arrow will keep enemy monk busy... :P
mathijn
R/Me, on a big group:
epedemic and criple shot/pin down
can be funny
epedemic and criple shot/pin down
can be funny
Huntmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColaManiac
1 ranger with melandru's arrows and 1 with poison arrow will keep enemy monk busy... :P
I'm pretty sure if theres a monk on the other team they'll already have their hands full anyway. ;P
Misc Merik
Dont know if you guys did this or not but during that preview weekend I unlocked probably my favorite smite skill ever. Ray of Judgement at 16 smiting prayers it did 110 holy damage.
Description:
All your skills except smiting prayers are disabled for 10 seconds. Target foe and adjacent foes take >110< holy damage. Animated undead struck by ray of judgement are set on fire for >9< seconds. 15 energy, 2 second cast, 30 second recharge.
Never thought I could have fun with smite skills until then. Was truly awsome burning down the necro and his army, and anyone that clumped up around that silly saltspray became dust as well. 
. Still cant get over how lame it gets once people on either team starts Rage quitting on you.
Description:
All your skills except smiting prayers are disabled for 10 seconds. Target foe and adjacent foes take >110< holy damage. Animated undead struck by ray of judgement are set on fire for >9< seconds. 15 energy, 2 second cast, 30 second recharge.
Never thought I could have fun with smite skills until then. Was truly awsome burning down the necro and his army, and anyone that clumped up around that silly saltspray became dust as well.
. Still cant get over how lame it gets once people on either team starts Rage quitting on you.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misc Merik
Dont know if you guys did this or not but during that preview weekend I unlocked probably my favorite smite skill ever. Ray of Judgement at 16 smiting prayers it did 110 holy damage.
Description:
All your skills except smiting prayers are disabled for 10 seconds. Target foe and adjacent foes take >110< holy damage. Animated undead struck by ray of judgement are set on fire for >9< seconds. 15 energy, 2 second cast, 30 second recharge.
Never thought I could have fun with smite skills until then. Was truly awsome burning down the necro and his army, and anyone that clumped up around that silly saltspray became dust as well. . Still cant get over how lame it gets once people on either team starts Rage quitting on you.
Smiters will get a place in 12vs12 to fight against MM or doing dmg and put enchantments. If you think you will lost your place as a Ranger in 12vs12, I said no. There always a good place for them, no matter what you do. I say, you put a smiter in your group and you dont worry anymore for a MM.
On what I want to say, do what you did before as a Ranger. I was interrupt and I will stay Interrupt in 12vs12. I dont want to see the monks healing the warriors anymore when they attack my team (Concussion shot... oups... you're dazed ).
Description:
All your skills except smiting prayers are disabled for 10 seconds. Target foe and adjacent foes take >110< holy damage. Animated undead struck by ray of judgement are set on fire for >9< seconds. 15 energy, 2 second cast, 30 second recharge.
Never thought I could have fun with smite skills until then. Was truly awsome burning down the necro and his army, and anyone that clumped up around that silly saltspray became dust as well.
. Still cant get over how lame it gets once people on either team starts Rage quitting on you.On what I want to say, do what you did before as a Ranger. I was interrupt and I will stay Interrupt in 12vs12. I dont want to see the monks healing the warriors anymore when they attack my team (Concussion shot... oups... you're dazed
).
Scary Raebbit
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagger bird
hey im a mm and i beg to differ
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution Got the point of how Minion's won't be bunched up together for Barraging.
Don't know how you can get rid of daze before he gets it since you didn't get it in the first place to remove it. Unless you are running Mantra of Resolve or Infuse Condition or Plague Touch/Signet, then you're pretty much open to Conncussion Shot or Temple Strike or even Skull Crack with your long 3 second cast time. Maybe you have a monk that is helping you, but you said that "a good mm knows how to get rid of daze". And using ToD to kill your minions defeats the purpose of keeping your army lively and well since the R/W/As has just made you lose minions and damaged you at the same time. And good luck getting a Death Nova off while dazed.
Yeah, the Golem dies and then any good ranger Distract Shots Animate Flesh Golem. Or just any interrupt and you gotta wait to recharge to get another only to be interrupted again?
Who wears Cutlist's, Fanatic's, or Bonelace? Only those who are looking for the style of it since Tormentor's and Necrotic offer better protection against most damage types than those above. And then most MM's wear scars...
for one last time i checked barrage could only hit up to 6 targets, not really enough to take down a whole army
next all of that bs about taking down the master first wont work at all because a good mm knows how to get rid of daze before he gets it and is always paking at least taste of death, if not death nova to kill u faster
another point u forgot are the new necromancer skills especially the flesh golem. Realy hard to take down and once u do it wont matter because the mm can just make another one
and the last point is that alot of necro armor has protction agianst piercing damage.
good luck though with ur ranger revolution Got the point of how Minion's won't be bunched up together for Barraging.
Don't know how you can get rid of daze before he gets it since you didn't get it in the first place to remove it. Unless you are running Mantra of Resolve or Infuse Condition or Plague Touch/Signet, then you're pretty much open to Conncussion Shot or Temple Strike or even Skull Crack with your long 3 second cast time. Maybe you have a monk that is helping you, but you said that "a good mm knows how to get rid of daze". And using ToD to kill your minions defeats the purpose of keeping your army lively and well since the R/W/As has just made you lose minions and damaged you at the same time. And good luck getting a Death Nova off while dazed.
Yeah, the Golem dies and then any good ranger Distract Shots Animate Flesh Golem. Or just any interrupt and you gotta wait to recharge to get another only to be interrupted again?
Who wears Cutlist's, Fanatic's, or Bonelace? Only those who are looking for the style of it since Tormentor's and Necrotic offer better protection against most damage types than those above. And then most MM's wear scars...
FeuerFrei
lol...thats what i did during the FPE with me R/Mo....it was soo fun...barraging the bone fiends with JI on...loads of dmg...
1337haXXor
SS on an unsuspecting rangers will turn things bad for surrounding allies very very fast.
Im sure rangers will play a large role in the 12v12, but i tihnk things will stay somewhat balanced.
Im sure rangers will play a large role in the 12v12, but i tihnk things will stay somewhat balanced.
Juicey Shake
eoe will rock... if we can only go in grouped by 4's paired with 2 other random teams: 1 Me/Mo mark of prot fast cast LoD'er, 1 ranger with 16 beast mastery, EoE, 55 hp, two necros with full hp [doesn't matter, really] and BiP= gg.
kaldak
*gasp* A build that is effective at counteracting a different build? I hope someone called the nerf police...
Basically all thats been said in this thread is that MMs arent omnipotent in 12v12, just useful. The way its supposed to be. Rangers will obviously have a place in 12v12, but so will every other class, the way its intended. I dont see barage being that super powerful. Anyone smarter than a reanimated lump of bones will scatter if they notice themselves getting barraged.
Basically all thats been said in this thread is that MMs arent omnipotent in 12v12, just useful. The way its supposed to be. Rangers will obviously have a place in 12v12, but so will every other class, the way its intended. I dont see barage being that super powerful. Anyone smarter than a reanimated lump of bones will scatter if they notice themselves getting barraged.
suiraCLAW
1 skills is enough to stop a mm: sig of creation: all spirits and animated creatures in the area (PB) die after 30 secs. I don't see why you need a special build for it...
Anyway: don't forget that the MM recieved a spell that turns all his minions into party healers. I'm taling about dwayne's sorrow ( 5/1/5 For 30 seconds, target ally and all nearby allies are Enchanted with Dwayna's Sorrow. If an ally dies while under the effects of Dwayna's Sorrow, your party is healed for 5..41..53.). In other words: killing minions = healing their party...
I tested it and seriusly: it's pretty hard to kill a good mm with dwayne's sorrow on all his minions + dark bond (life bond and life barrier in one) + taste of death.
BTW: you don't need saccers to activate a EOE bomb... (the amount of times that soul reaping triggers proves this)
Anyway: don't forget that the MM recieved a spell that turns all his minions into party healers. I'm taling about dwayne's sorrow ( 5/1/5 For 30 seconds, target ally and all nearby allies are Enchanted with Dwayna's Sorrow. If an ally dies while under the effects of Dwayna's Sorrow, your party is healed for 5..41..53.). In other words: killing minions = healing their party...
I tested it and seriusly: it's pretty hard to kill a good mm with dwayne's sorrow on all his minions + dark bond (life bond and life barrier in one) + taste of death.
BTW: you don't need saccers to activate a EOE bomb... (the amount of times that soul reaping triggers proves this)
MelechRic
For random 12v12 MM is fun, but it wasn't what my necro ultimately ended up doing.
I went Blood Spiker and had a lot more fun. I didn't find one non-monk character in Random 12v12 that could stand up to it.
I'm almost in total agreement that EoE with Barrage will end the MM glory days in Random 12v12. The only true problems with Barrage in PvP are the ones it's always had:
Insidious Parasite
Empathy
Spiteful Spirit
All things to consider carefully when taking Barrage as your elite in PvP.
I went Blood Spiker and had a lot more fun. I didn't find one non-monk character in Random 12v12 that could stand up to it.
I'm almost in total agreement that EoE with Barrage will end the MM glory days in Random 12v12. The only true problems with Barrage in PvP are the ones it's always had:
Insidious Parasite
Empathy
Spiteful Spirit
All things to consider carefully when taking Barrage as your elite in PvP.
Francis Demeules
Well, if you're really afraid about this one, why not steal these minions as a R/N? A good point to counter attack the Master with Verata Aura or have Verata Gaze for.... unsuspicious corruption.... or let your MM in your side for that and do your job instead worrying it.
d3kst3r
If you've ever played the game called Counter This Skill in the off topic forum you'll learn that having a big debate over what counters what is often a wild goose chase since every single skill in this game can be countered in a dozen different ways. In the end it all comes down to the individual skills and actions of the player.
PS. Minions need corpses and corpse control skills like putrid explosion can counter minion masters much better than smite rangers.
PS. Minions need corpses and corpse control skills like putrid explosion can counter minion masters much better than smite rangers.
mathijn
interrupt his minion skill
create bone XXXX--> savage shot(interrupt+dmg)
next create bone XXXX--> concussion shot(dazed)
bye bye minionmaster
create bone XXXX--> savage shot(interrupt+dmg)
next create bone XXXX--> concussion shot(dazed)
bye bye minionmaster
Sir Mad
Quote:
Insidious Parasite
Empathy
Spiteful Spirit Yup, that's exactly why I never go to the tombs without a hex remover (who fears those ridiculous hell poneys?). I guess I wont leave it at home for 12/12 either...
Huntmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3kst3r
PS. Minions need corpses and corpse control skills like putrid explosion can counter minion masters much better than smite rangers.
By the last day of the FPE i was using Consume Corpse in my build.. With a few points in Death or whatever it is, CC was only costing me 2 energy, and was completely shutting down MMs..
Besides, who doesn't want to hop around the map.
Besides, who doesn't want to hop around the map.
Ninja OniX
well i would think that ritualists and ranger would make a good build, just have to think about it
MelechRic
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathijn
interrupt his minion skill
create bone XXXX--> savage shot(interrupt+dmg)
next create bone XXXX--> concussion shot(dazed)
bye bye minionmaster Plague Touch is nice for getting rid of Dazed. However, I agree that Dazed is a pain once it's on you. If you have enough minions up and good points in SR you can use Mantra of Resolve (without much energy penalty) to avoid interrupts. Also, last time I checked, Taste of Death was 1/4 second cast. That's hard to interrupt even with Dazed on you. (Though it's easier at 1/2 second than 1/4 second.)
create bone XXXX--> savage shot(interrupt+dmg)
next create bone XXXX--> concussion shot(dazed)
bye bye minionmaster Plague Touch is nice for getting rid of Dazed. However, I agree that Dazed is a pain once it's on you. If you have enough minions up and good points in SR you can use Mantra of Resolve (without much energy penalty) to avoid interrupts. Also, last time I checked, Taste of Death was 1/4 second cast. That's hard to interrupt even with Dazed on you. (Though it's easier at 1/2 second than 1/4 second.)
NinjaKai
MM are easily countered if you know what your doing. A good mesmer or ranger can stop the MM from even using their key skills. I remember seeing two opposing MM in an all out war rushing to corpses trying to summon their little minions first. Talk about funny. Once during 12v12 my interrupt ranger sent a MM into a rage quit because I kept following him around interrupting all his attempts to summon minions.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntmaster
By the last day of the FPE i was using Consume Corpse in my build.. With a few points in Death or whatever it is, CC was only costing me 2 energy, and was completely shutting down MMs..
Besides, who doesn't want to hop around the map.
I like this one. Save's your interrupts for someone important. Like those silly Empathy toting Mesmers!
Besides, who doesn't want to hop around the map.
I like this one. Save's your interrupts for someone important. Like those silly Empathy toting Mesmers!
God Apprentice
I played a few different professions in the Alliance Battles and found ranger to be the most satisfying
The first time I went into one on ranger I noticed I was still set as a Spike ranger but was able to operate nicely in that enviroment
The one thing I think I enjoyed most about the Alliance Battles is that you didnt have to have some uber rank to dive right in and play
The first time I went into one on ranger I noticed I was still set as a Spike ranger but was able to operate nicely in that enviroment
The one thing I think I enjoyed most about the Alliance Battles is that you didnt have to have some uber rank to dive right in and play
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by God Apprentice
The one thing I think I enjoyed most about the Alliance Battles is that you didnt have to have some uber rank to dive right in and play
I'm actually worried that that might change.... I hope the 12v12 doesn't lose it's random nature.
Dr. Fire
I think a Ranger could be a GREAT support class for 12v12 as well. I have had great success with, what I like to call, my "hybrid" Ranger build in some 8v8 battles. I use my 13-12-12 attribute distribution and use Poison Arrow, savage shot, distracting shot, dust trap (for blind), barbed trap (for crippled), Penetrating Attack (for damage), Troll Unguent (+9 at 12 WS) Rez Sig. 2 interupts, 3 conditions, some damage,trap damage = royal pain in the a$$. If I am flag runner I swap in Storm chaser for eithr PA or one of the interupts.
Huntmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
Rez Sig
You really brought a rez with you? Everyone i know just dropped it completely. No DP + Base rez = no need for on the spot rez.
P!zz@
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Onix
What I came up with:
Wanderlust [E]
Elite Binding Ritual. Create a level 1...8 Spirit. Whenever this Spirit's attack hits a stationary foe, that foe is knocked down and the Spirit loses 70...54 Health. This spirit dies after 30...54 seconds.
Earthbind
Binding Ritual. Create a level 1...8 Spirit. All foes knocked down within its range are knocked down for at least 3 seconds. Whenever this happens, this Spirit loses 50...30 Health. This Spirit dies after 15...39 seconds.
Now, this alone isn't that great. But if you look at the new Ranger skills, you see the following:
Bramble
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. Anyone who is knocked down in it's range takes 5 damage and begins Bleeding for 5...12 seconds. This spirit dies after 30 seconds.
Lacerate
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. Bleeding Creatures in it's range gain -2 health degeneration. When this spirit dies, all creatures in it's range with health below 90% suffer 5...21 seconds from bleeding.
Of course, since you have two Elites you need two people (I suggest Ritualist/Ranger instead of Ra/Ri, because the Ritualist primary attribute gives spirits summoned by you more health), and some Coordination. I believe this works best in 12v12 because
a) you hit as many people as possible
b) until the enemies find your spirits in the crowd, they probably already have done their work
c) You can scare people away from outposts and shrines until you have taken them over.
This will pwn everyody. And the thing I like most is that it takes away so few slots in your skill bar that you can pack some traps or Poison too.
Richo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Fire
I think a Ranger could be a GREAT support class for 12v12 as well. I have had great success with, what I like to call, my "hybrid" Ranger build in some 8v8 battles. I use my 13-12-12 attribute distribution and use Poison Arrow, savage shot, distracting shot, dust trap (for blind), barbed trap (for crippled), Penetrating Attack (for damage), Troll Unguent (+9 at 12 WS) Rez Sig. 2 interupts, 3 conditions, some damage,trap damage = royal pain in the a$$. If I am flag runner I swap in Storm chaser for eithr PA or one of the interupts.
`
support? dude? ranger rules in 12 v 12 with the hights etc you only need to use a composite bow class and when youre on top of a hill you fire almost 1.5-2 agro range and it owned...
i use my deg spike ranger in 12 v 12 and owned 3 wars (3 v 1 that is), poison arrow + hunter shot and then just use kindle for the little dmg add and it owns about any char as there are only few monks and they are busy enough as it is
and about MM try an old fashioned nuker with only renewal (no arcane echo) and spam 2* rodgors or 2 meteor showers it will drain someone his life with 300 including everyone nearby
support? dude? ranger rules in 12 v 12 with the hights etc you only need to use a composite bow class and when youre on top of a hill you fire almost 1.5-2 agro range and it owned...
i use my deg spike ranger in 12 v 12 and owned 3 wars (3 v 1 that is), poison arrow + hunter shot and then just use kindle for the little dmg add and it owns about any char as there are only few monks and they are busy enough as it is
and about MM try an old fashioned nuker with only renewal (no arcane echo) and spam 2* rodgors or 2 meteor showers it will drain someone his life with 300 including everyone nearby
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richo
`
and about MM try an old fashioned nuker with only renewal (no arcane echo) and spam 2* rodgors or 2 meteor showers it will drain someone his life with 300 including everyone nearby Wow, mow down a Minion army. It'd still rather keep them from raising minions in the first place.
and about MM try an old fashioned nuker with only renewal (no arcane echo) and spam 2* rodgors or 2 meteor showers it will drain someone his life with 300 including everyone nearby Wow, mow down a Minion army. It'd still rather keep them from raising minions in the first place.
Francis Demeules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richo
and about MM try an old fashioned nuker with only renewal (no arcane echo) and spam 2* rodgors or 2 meteor showers it will drain someone his life with 300 including everyone nearby
Fire dmg = Natural Elemantal resistance on ranger = almost 60/50 per hit (under 91 dmg if lvl 12 fire magic)
Dr. Fire
As far as the rez sig goes, I have just gotten so used to taking it that I just kind of am used to using the other 7 slots. I have used many builds in PvP, and was merely throwing another option out there. I am not going to sit here and blow smoke up my own a$$ about how I pwned 3 Warriors with a certain build. I was merely sharing with all of you a fun build that will drive your opponents nuts, AND does nice damage and conditions. PvP is all about teamwork and with certain strategies I have had some good success with that build.
suiraCLAW
back to topic: I don't really think that barrage is such a great idea, except for animated corpses nobody will stay in barrage range + barrage removes preparations, wich is your best friend ^^. (apply poison ftw)
romeo_longsword
There are two things I like to express from my personal experience.
1) A Barrage group is not that powerful in PvP, just that I have rarely seen the players all gather togeher like a pack of sheeps or the monsters you farm.
So what you get is a delayed but powerful strike at a cheap expense of ENG, which I personally much rather to use spike or the posion crip build.
2) M Factory from my experience is not overly effective as well, although I think this is player's quality dependent, but from my experience, a pack of R3 IWAYs can over come it. And as you know, IWAYs are common, the chance to face them is good.
1) A Barrage group is not that powerful in PvP, just that I have rarely seen the players all gather togeher like a pack of sheeps or the monsters you farm.
So what you get is a delayed but powerful strike at a cheap expense of ENG, which I personally much rather to use spike or the posion crip build.
2) M Factory from my experience is not overly effective as well, although I think this is player's quality dependent, but from my experience, a pack of R3 IWAYs can over come it. And as you know, IWAYs are common, the chance to face them is good.