Hi all:
I just saw that the GW Championship Finale was between Evil and WM again. And Evil won (again). Oh, I am all for that the best guild should win and all that. What I am a little concerned about is the "levelness" of the playing field.
Now, this may be pure hearsay, but I thought someone mentioned on one of the boards that the Korean guilds actually have sponsors. They are actually paid to practice 13 hours a day for 7 days a week.
Now, is it just me or does this seem imbalanced?
No offense to any of the guilds, but it's not even the case that we have some other region being #2. But we now have two championships where one might have predicted the results going in.
I mean, would it not be the equivalent or having a professional baseball team going up against a minor league that only plays on weekends?
I would actually argue that GW Champion needs to have 2 new rules:
1) no sponsorship allowed for guild teams
2) that a "retirement" system be implemented. if a guild won world champion three-times in a row, they should be en-shrined (i don't know, maybe their statues will be up somewhere) but the same team should be barred from future competition (sort of a "giving everyone else a shot" kinda of thing).
What do you think?
Should sponsorship be allowed?
hidden_agenda
JiggyFly
Well, I would agree with you...except there's no law saying that an American or European team can't play 13 hours a day 7 days a week. If they want to devote that much time and effort into they can. (Although I don't think 13 hours is quite right, it's probably more like 2-3 teams practicing over the course of the day)
The whole reason for the sponsorship thing, is simply because the whole MMORPG following in Korea/Japan is alot bigger than here in the U.S. and in Europe. If I'm not mistaken I think some GvG matches are even aired on television there.
Plus, Anet isn't going to impose any resitrctions on their Korean players or guilds, because as of right now Guild Wars ain't doing so hot over there right now.
The whole reason for the sponsorship thing, is simply because the whole MMORPG following in Korea/Japan is alot bigger than here in the U.S. and in Europe. If I'm not mistaken I think some GvG matches are even aired on television there.
Plus, Anet isn't going to impose any resitrctions on their Korean players or guilds, because as of right now Guild Wars ain't doing so hot over there right now.
SAQ
Well I think Evil got lucky this time, if Paladin of Te didn't error out on the 3rd match against Evil, I think Te would have beaten Evil and then it won't be Evil winning the championship, it'll be between WM and Te.
I think sponsorship is good, it's an award of some sort and for a tournament as grand as the one held, I think the winners derserves it.
I think sponsorship is good, it's an award of some sort and for a tournament as grand as the one held, I think the winners derserves it.
Thom
Professional gaming is accepted in Magic and poker for that matter. Guild Wars was designed to support professional play, so if some wants to pay me to name my character "Thom's Viagra" I'm up for that.
myword
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by hidden_agenda
I would actually argue that GW Champion needs to have 2 new rules:
1) no sponsorship allowed for guild teams 2) that a "retirement" system be implemented. if a guild won world champion three-times in a row, they should be en-shrined (i don't know, maybe their statues will be up somewhere) but the same team should be barred from future competition (sort of a "giving everyone else a shot" kinda of thing). What do you think? |
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thom
Professional gaming is accepted in Magic and poker for that matter. Guild Wars was designed to support professional play, so if some wants to pay me to name my character "Thom's Viagra" I'm up for that.
|
Phaern Majes
Professional gaming doesn't just happen in Korea.... I'd be willing to bet my life that there are at least a few American and Euro guilds that are sponsered, or at least were at one point.
Sekkira
Just because companies in Korea will sponser good players and American companies wont doesn't mean that Korean guilds should not allowed to be.
On top of that, barring a team from winning too much? Were you brought up in an environment where there were no losers and everyone wins? Because that is an entirely wrong attitude to have when it comes to competition. Were any Olympians banned from the games for winning too many gold medals?
On top of that, barring a team from winning too much? Were you brought up in an environment where there were no losers and everyone wins? Because that is an entirely wrong attitude to have when it comes to competition. Were any Olympians banned from the games for winning too many gold medals?
Kakumei
EviL's going to keep winning until a better guild beats them. Why stop them from being able to reap the rewards of their skill until then?
LifeInfusion
I sort of agree that the playing field must be leveled.
At the same time the competition is raised when Korean players have so much practice.
In the end, it would be best if we allow sponsorship for GUILD WARS itself, instead of individual teams.
At the same time the competition is raised when Korean players have so much practice.
In the end, it would be best if we allow sponsorship for GUILD WARS itself, instead of individual teams.
Cymboric Treewalker
The only change I would want is to see a division system implemented...
Div III -- T-Shirt type prizes, Everyone starts there and after two wins total (in a given period of time) the team gets moved up to Div II
Div II -- Medium size prizes. Teams that win two times total (in a period of time) get moved to Div I
Div I -- Biggest prizes, etc. Professionals should end up here.
Div III -- T-Shirt type prizes, Everyone starts there and after two wins total (in a given period of time) the team gets moved up to Div II
Div II -- Medium size prizes. Teams that win two times total (in a period of time) get moved to Div I
Div I -- Biggest prizes, etc. Professionals should end up here.
Phoenix Avenger
I like the idea of the different divisions, although maybe guilds should be required to tell ANet which division they want to be in before the ladder season starts.
saneo
i don't think sponsorship is a bad thing, but i do think some kind of limit should be imposed on guilds that win multiple times, maybe have a 2 win in a row limit or something, no permanent retirement, but a type of "term limit."
Gun Pierson
I think the best team should be number one, why else have a competition or ladder. The best shoudn't be punished because they're the best, but rewarded and sponsorship is a way of rewarding. It is called E-sports.
Legacy Virus
no problem with being sponsored at all, there is nothing say americans and europeans cant be and cant play as much as they do we just happen to find other things more important, koreans take great pride in there gaming and its like a sport would be for the U.S. we could do what they do easily we just dont want to put the time, money, or effort forward so let them.
Kool Pajamas
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
The only change I would want is to see a division system implemented...
Div III -- T-Shirt type prizes, Everyone starts there and after two wins total (in a given period of time) the team gets moved up to Div II Div II -- Medium size prizes. Teams that win two times total (in a period of time) get moved to Div I Div I -- Biggest prizes, etc. Professionals should end up here. |
xBakox
I really like the divisions idea, sorta like the NCAA. Divsion 1 is the top 100 guilds put in a league. They play for cash and such. Then Division 2 could be the next 300 or so guilds (so the guilds that were originaly rated 101-400). Divsion 3 would be the next 600 guilds (401-999). Division 4 would be the uncompetitive division. Every season the last 10 (just a random number) to finish in Div. 1 would move down to Div 2, while the top 10 in Div 2 would move up to Div 1. For Div 2, it could be a bigger number, like 20-50 that would move down, while top 20-50 guilds from Div 3 would move up. This would continue on.
Perhaps you could even have Div 3 have no limits, that way everyone would have a fair chance. Maybe the only qualificatin for Div 3 would be to register your guild.
Just some thoughts.
And I dont agree that sponsorship should not be allowed. Its how some people make their only money.
Perhaps you could even have Div 3 have no limits, that way everyone would have a fair chance. Maybe the only qualificatin for Div 3 would be to register your guild.
Just some thoughts.
And I dont agree that sponsorship should not be allowed. Its how some people make their only money.
Kurow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by myword
terrible ideas.
|
Shen Xi
It's a competition, deal with it. Can you think of any other sport in the world where people are told, sorry you're not allowed to compete anymore, you're too good?
It's the same with any competiton/sport, those with more time/money ahve an advantage but ti doesn't mean they cannot win, skill has to be there. E.g. Te almost had evil there in the third game and might likely have won if Paladin hadn't disconnected.
It's the same with any competiton/sport, those with more time/money ahve an advantage but ti doesn't mean they cannot win, skill has to be there. E.g. Te almost had evil there in the third game and might likely have won if Paladin hadn't disconnected.
hidden_agenda
First of all, thanks for all the replies. 
Sekkira - I was actually brought up in an extremely competitive environment where even elementary students are ranked #1 to last every semester. I've also won quite a few contests and will probably be considered somewhat of an over-achiever / yuppie in real life. In any case, I hardly see how my actual upbringing has anything to do with this issue.
It seems that most people's objection is with the "forceful retirement." I do understand that the best players shouldn't be punished. However, neither do I feel that people who get paid to play for a living in the first place is on level ground when playing against those who doesn't do this for a living.
In actual sports, there are amateur leagues and professional leagues. How would you feel if an NBA basketball team goes to your college and beat the crap out of your college team? You probably would say that it's unfair. Why? 'cause the NBA guys do this for a living -- they are "pros".
Well, this is the same. The sponsored teams (whether they're Korean or not) has an unfair advantage.
My objection has less to do with punishing the winning team then attempting to level the playing field. I do think that the best team should be awarded. But not when "best" derives from things outside the game.
On a less serious note: I wouldn't mind a sponsored league competition. I like the idea. It might create a different sort of competition. Maybe the tomb competition could be interrupted with commercials of Dwayna selling Pepsi Cola. Certainly, if I were Anet, I could seriously consider product placement and alternative ways to enhance their revenue stream...
Sekkira - I was actually brought up in an extremely competitive environment where even elementary students are ranked #1 to last every semester. I've also won quite a few contests and will probably be considered somewhat of an over-achiever / yuppie in real life. In any case, I hardly see how my actual upbringing has anything to do with this issue.
It seems that most people's objection is with the "forceful retirement." I do understand that the best players shouldn't be punished. However, neither do I feel that people who get paid to play for a living in the first place is on level ground when playing against those who doesn't do this for a living.
In actual sports, there are amateur leagues and professional leagues. How would you feel if an NBA basketball team goes to your college and beat the crap out of your college team? You probably would say that it's unfair. Why? 'cause the NBA guys do this for a living -- they are "pros".
Well, this is the same. The sponsored teams (whether they're Korean or not) has an unfair advantage.
My objection has less to do with punishing the winning team then attempting to level the playing field. I do think that the best team should be awarded. But not when "best" derives from things outside the game.
On a less serious note: I wouldn't mind a sponsored league competition. I like the idea. It might create a different sort of competition. Maybe the tomb competition could be interrupted with commercials of Dwayna selling Pepsi Cola. Certainly, if I were Anet, I could seriously consider product placement and alternative ways to enhance their revenue stream...
Thallandor
I personally feel that its more of a cultural issue. In a country where computer gamers are the norm and Skilled players are worshipped as Heroes with their own Fan clubs (Nada Terran from starcraft) and games featured on delicated gaming TV channels, its not hard to think that a commercial company would sponser teams that are promsing and who would go on to excel in the "sport", this is similar to how sports players are sponsered in other countries based on its popularity.
I wouldn't go as far to say it is unfair and should not occur since isnt been paid to do what you like doing best one of the goals we look for in life? I suppose that teams in Korea are just more lucky that they are being appreciated unlike counterparts from the rest of the world who are looked upon as nerds without a life. I bet some korean kid on a sports forums is complaining why theres college grants offered to promising football or basketball player in the states while they get nuts shooting hoops in the communal playground.
I wouldn't go as far to say it is unfair and should not occur since isnt been paid to do what you like doing best one of the goals we look for in life? I suppose that teams in Korea are just more lucky that they are being appreciated unlike counterparts from the rest of the world who are looked upon as nerds without a life. I bet some korean kid on a sports forums is complaining why theres college grants offered to promising football or basketball player in the states while they get nuts shooting hoops in the communal playground.
Nightwish
The retirement idea is totally rediculous..
Its like saying "Ok, EviL, you won too many matches. Though you played well and fairly, you should stop playing now and let others win."
Its like saying "Ok, EviL, you won too many matches. Though you played well and fairly, you should stop playing now and let others win."
Coolniceronguy
I very much like the idea of divisions.
As for retirement, I strongly disagree. A team should not be penalized for exceptional ability.
As for retirement, I strongly disagree. A team should not be penalized for exceptional ability.
Shen Xi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by hidden_agenda
In actual sports, there are amateur leagues and professional leagues. How would you feel if an NBA basketball team goes to your college and beat the crap out of your college team? You probably would say that it's unfair. Why? 'cause the NBA guys do this for a living -- they are "pros".
|
So you'd be asking the USA to please stop helping their sports stars so much so countries like haiti or switzerland can compete on a level playing field?
Or like in the case of your school or whatever. Children aren't allowed extra tuition or any other help outside of classes cos it's not fair and not a level playing field?
As for being the best, the skill has to be their to start with, doesn't matter how much time you spend playing, if you suck, then you suck, simple as that.
Yichi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SAQ
Well I think Evil got lucky this time, if Paladin of Te didn't error out on the 3rd match against Evil, I think Te would have beaten Evil and then it won't be Evil winning the championship, it'll be between WM and Te.
|
Personally, if EviL is winning, then best of luck to them on their winning streak and it should inspire others to do whatever they can to better themselves so try and take their title.
Brett Kuntz
I think your topic, and your ideas, are terrible.
moo moo
I like the idea of the different divison's. Good call on that one. Probably will never happen but a great idea. Um Evil has won 2 times and thats great for them but they didnt run through so smoothly this time. Yes they beat WM well too. But they might be playing more after that should have been loss turned win against Te. There not unbeatable, i cant wait to see the next tourney.
Tortoise
Up to this day I'm still very surprised that there isn't a guild out there named 'The Coca Cola Company' (or somthing of that kind) winning the Halls every day.
Autumn_Leaf
the division idea would be nice, but it shouldn't be a choice for a guild just to decide to be in.
in a competition state of mind it prolly should be split up with ranking. per say:
top 200 in div 1, 201-500 div2, 501-1000 div 3
the prize setup mentioned b4 was good; declining as the div falls
to the intial posts:
sponsored teams, i am all for. people get paid for doing things they like i.e sports, why not video games. i for one playe an average of 6 hrs a day and i get bored, imagine having a mandatory 13 hr for 7 days a week, that would take alot of the fun out of the game.
guild wars is a competition and korea is just looking to win, and with observer mode everyone has EVIL's build on their screen so there shouldn't be a problem duplicating the builds so a person doesnt have to spend endless hours thinking of one.
i would hope my guild would be in the current ladder competition, but probably won't be till next season. Good luck to all the guilds currently competing in the ladder.
O Names David O
O Hope to get to know you better O
in a competition state of mind it prolly should be split up with ranking. per say:
top 200 in div 1, 201-500 div2, 501-1000 div 3
the prize setup mentioned b4 was good; declining as the div falls
to the intial posts:
sponsored teams, i am all for. people get paid for doing things they like i.e sports, why not video games. i for one playe an average of 6 hrs a day and i get bored, imagine having a mandatory 13 hr for 7 days a week, that would take alot of the fun out of the game.
guild wars is a competition and korea is just looking to win, and with observer mode everyone has EVIL's build on their screen so there shouldn't be a problem duplicating the builds so a person doesnt have to spend endless hours thinking of one.
i would hope my guild would be in the current ladder competition, but probably won't be till next season. Good luck to all the guilds currently competing in the ladder.
O Names David O
O Hope to get to know you better O
Brett Kuntz
There's not enough people playing GW to have divisions.
Autumn_Leaf
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kunt0r
There's not enough people playing GW to have divisions.
|
Brett Kuntz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Autumn_Leaf
we have over a million copies sold (pretty sure) and over 2000 guilds. we have enough people playing.
|
Thallandor
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tortoise
Up to this day I'm still very surprised that there isn't a guild out there named 'The Coca Cola Company' (or somthing of that kind) winning the Halls every day.
|
Medion
Quote:
| It doesnt matter how many copies were sold, a very small fraction of those people actually play GvG. There's less then 25 serious guilds on the ladder at the moment, about 975 short of enough to warrant a second division. |
I think if there were a few divisions, people will play more GvG because they have the change of winning something. At this moment the most part of the guilds lose most of their matches. With divisions they would at least lose a little less.
And there are a lot more than 2000 guilds, 1.000.000 divided by 100 (maximum members in a guild) means 10.000 at least. And I think the 1 million number was way back in August or something.
ghostlyranger
the thread starter had no idea what is progamer.
sorry man, but guildwars pvp is heading cyber sport pro gaming field, which will help gw last much more longer than any mmo out there
sorry man, but guildwars pvp is heading cyber sport pro gaming field, which will help gw last much more longer than any mmo out there
nimloth32
well, first of all, in korea, they treat gaming as some sort of sport, so they are willing to sacrifice time for it..
hence, well, as a matter of fact, i would prefer more sponsorship for those teams who willing to go professional..this is to encourage more professional GW players and teams..and since they are so many players in america who plays Guild Wars comparing to korea..i believe that with more sponsorhip given, it will encourage more teams to go professional and who knows one day those teams might even be better than evil and wm?..
for me, i would be really hope that one day GW will make its way into WCG since GW is tournament-friendly comparing to other MMO that i see in market so far..cheers..
hence, well, as a matter of fact, i would prefer more sponsorship for those teams who willing to go professional..this is to encourage more professional GW players and teams..and since they are so many players in america who plays Guild Wars comparing to korea..i believe that with more sponsorhip given, it will encourage more teams to go professional and who knows one day those teams might even be better than evil and wm?..
for me, i would be really hope that one day GW will make its way into WCG since GW is tournament-friendly comparing to other MMO that i see in market so far..cheers..
Oberon Shadowking
I think the ideas of Divisions is a GREAT one, even if it might never happen.
There are also a lot more than 25 serious guilds out there. AND, if there were more risk/reward benefits to GvG, more people would get into it. Divisions would also prevent totally unequal pairings. Just the other day, I was in a GvG with Serpent's Divine Bond, (SDB) a guild with a lot of experienced players, but who are still relatively new to GvG. Their rank was 5000, but we got put up against a guild with rank 262, and got HAMMERED. This doesn't happen TOO often, but it does happen.
In addition, it would allow for some shake-ups in the top 50-100 guilds. If the bottom 10 (random number) of the top 100 got kicked down a division at the end of each season, and the top ten of division II got moved up, it might provide a breath of fresh air to guilds who have been unable to crack in. It has been proven that humans are more likely to try hard at something if there's more in it for them... Think about how much better it sounds to be:
#1 guild in division III, rather than... say... the 667th best guild. Just as in college athletics, you could have a championship for EACH level, and then we would have three or FOUR champions, instead of just one. Admittedly at a different level.
So there you go. A-NET, LISTEN UP!!!
There are also a lot more than 25 serious guilds out there. AND, if there were more risk/reward benefits to GvG, more people would get into it. Divisions would also prevent totally unequal pairings. Just the other day, I was in a GvG with Serpent's Divine Bond, (SDB) a guild with a lot of experienced players, but who are still relatively new to GvG. Their rank was 5000, but we got put up against a guild with rank 262, and got HAMMERED. This doesn't happen TOO often, but it does happen.
In addition, it would allow for some shake-ups in the top 50-100 guilds. If the bottom 10 (random number) of the top 100 got kicked down a division at the end of each season, and the top ten of division II got moved up, it might provide a breath of fresh air to guilds who have been unable to crack in. It has been proven that humans are more likely to try hard at something if there's more in it for them... Think about how much better it sounds to be:
#1 guild in division III, rather than... say... the 667th best guild. Just as in college athletics, you could have a championship for EACH level, and then we would have three or FOUR champions, instead of just one. Admittedly at a different level.
So there you go. A-NET, LISTEN UP!!!
Cymboric Treewalker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kunt0r
It doesnt matter how many copies were sold, a very small fraction of those people actually play GvG. There's less then 25 serious guilds on the ladder at the moment, about 975 short of enough to warrant a second division.
|
Heh?
There are 1000 listed on the ladder with games played this after the ladders was reset midnight the 18th.... hmm... 1000 with games played in one day. Yeah... there are only 25 serious guilds. What a joke.
Perhaps if the "bottom" guilds didn't have to get obliterated by the "serious" guilds more people would grow to like GvG and develop skill at it. I can not imagine a guild starting out wanting to continue after getting blown out a few times.
Haggard
I think actual official sponsorship would rock - the sponsor gets their name and a picture next to that of the guild.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Thallandor
rofl, if i am lame or bored enough maybe i will sent Coca Cola/Pesi an email on how if they sponser me, i will help ingame adversting for them (not sure if this violates EULA).....hmm now to think of a way to win Halls...back the drawing board.
|
twicky_kid
Sponsered teams are always going to win. They get paid for playing so they can devote their entire day to practising. While everyone else has to do it on their free time and only get prizes from GW.
There is no market for professional gaming of this caliber in America and Euro. Koreans will have millions follow these type of games for product endorsement while americans could care less because of proffessional sports.
I don't support sponsership because it makes the playing field imbalanced. As long as WM (reno) and Evil have sponsers they will continue to win the tournements. After a long period of time other players are just going to give up because they cannot compete at the same lvl.
This trend might be changing very soon. Directv will be lauching its massive gaming league for proffesional gaming events and competitions. This will bring the gaming competitions to millions living rooms. Hopefully they pick up GW. Most likely games like halo, unreal, and madden will be the focus. I suggest GW everyday I go to work.
Still no details besides it will launch 2006. I've heard more news coverage on radio and tv about it but still no date pinned down.
There is no market for professional gaming of this caliber in America and Euro. Koreans will have millions follow these type of games for product endorsement while americans could care less because of proffessional sports.
I don't support sponsership because it makes the playing field imbalanced. As long as WM (reno) and Evil have sponsers they will continue to win the tournements. After a long period of time other players are just going to give up because they cannot compete at the same lvl.
This trend might be changing very soon. Directv will be lauching its massive gaming league for proffesional gaming events and competitions. This will bring the gaming competitions to millions living rooms. Hopefully they pick up GW. Most likely games like halo, unreal, and madden will be the focus. I suggest GW everyday I go to work.
Still no details besides it will launch 2006. I've heard more news coverage on radio and tv about it but still no date pinned down.