Can't you stay Neutral and be rewarded?

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Ok, I know there are two factions. From what I read in some Official Factions literature (can't remember if it was on the site or in my preorder kit), there' supposted to be the ability to join factions or stay neutral. After reading all about the new stuff in the Factions FAQ section on GuildWars.com, I get the feeling that there's something being left out. I mean, what happened to observers and people who wish to stay neutral? Do you have to be in a guild? What's the reward for not getting involved (as I read there would be)?

Like Morrowind said, I'm best described as a mage. I like to observe the world taking place and allow nature to take its course. I see no point in interferring in the affairs of others or disturbing the balance of things. As such, I'd rather play the observer to the factions than pick a side. And I know they already have quests in places like Lion's Arch where you can start aligning yourself, but if you wish to play as a neutral person.... are there honestly no rewards, but rather penalties?

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

There could be Neutral quests, and I hope there are. We just don't know...

fiery

fiery

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

maryland

InYurFace Gaming [IYF]

R/

If neutral, you still need to do quests for either side to reap the benefits or they both will ignore you for being a traitor for either side.

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Right... but consider that there are elite quests and all sorts of other high end content and such that are only available if you're part of a Guild, Faction, or both. This forces the casual player to choose a side. One of the things advertized (and I'm kicking myself b/c I can't recall where I read it) was that they'd reward the players who aren't participating in a faction.

I'd just hate to take a side at this point. I'd rather stick with the neutral path as long as possible. And from what I understand, choosing certain quests removes other quests. IE: You choose a quest for one faction, you loose a quest opportunity for the other faction. Although that's just hear-say, I'm not about to start grabbing quests and such until I know what I'm getting into.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

You must choose... but choose wisely.

Hella Good

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

I don't think that the game fosters neurality. I know as much as I'd love to be neutral, I'll most likely have to get in a faction.

Sentao Nugra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Crystal Lake, Illinois

Grenths Rejects [GR]

"All must choose a side" is what the lore says.

Though alot of people would like neutrality, it would completely change the game dynamic of your alliance / side doing well affecting what you get to do with PvE

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

^ Only one advertisement said "all must choose a side."

Official releases have said that you can remain nuetral, however, I don't think it will be supported much and would probably be very difficult to do.

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

I'm not sure, after seeing the FPE, that being neutral would even be possible if you play the game at all.
I'm speaking on a PvE theory here... key word = theory.
You could probably go out and just farm and stay netrual (not my idea of a good time though).
True neutrality though, destroys the game play in Factions though. I imagine, that the majority of PvE players would stay neutral if it meant gaining access to the elite missions and end game content without worries about competition.
As it is, at least from what we were allowed to see, the competition is what drives Factions and staying neutral means access to nothing, not even the minor pointless quests sprinkled about the land - those even gave faction points as rewards, so completing those would remove your neutrality.

If I remember correctly, the merchants wouldn't even talk to me unless I belonged to their faction...

So in answer, I don't think neutral players will have anything to do but farm for drops in common areas, or return to Chapter 1...

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

What would be nice is to give each faction faction-specific armor. Then if you're neutral, it'd be nice to have access to special armors that are not faction specific.

It's funny b/c there have been several people I've seen who are guildless. I wonder how factions will change that dynamic. It's difficult to start a guild, and only elite guilds are really worth being in, but you must be a frequent player to be in an elite guild.

Faction controlled areas and what not will be interesting, but if you're Guildless and Neutral, they really should offer some quests for "mediation" or whatever. Perhaps have quests where you must resolve arguments between NPC's of the opposite factions. As soon as you start gaining points toward a specific Faction, these quests would disappear, but if you remain neutral the entire time, these quests will be available.

Although, the elite stuff and what not... I don't see how ANet could honestly do something like that for the neutral without createing a psuedo third faction.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoranger
What would be nice is to give each faction faction-specific armor. Then if you're neutral, it'd be nice to have access to special armors that are not faction specific.
I think this is what they are planning - Luxon armor is more Organic looking, Kurzick is darker (dare I say "Gothic"), Cantha is the more typical "Asian-inspired" (to quote Anet).


Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoranger
Although, the elite stuff and what not... I don't see how ANet could honestly do something like that for the neutral without createing a psuedo third faction.
I don't think the Elite stuff should be accessible to Neutrals, as that will be hard for even dedicated Luxon or Kurzick players to achieve!

But there should be some way to bypass the Luxon and Kurzick content, and have some Neutral quests, if that's a players choice!

Without knowing exactly how the game is set up, and how much involves Luxon and Kurzicks specific quests, it's hard to say...

TheMosesPHD

TheMosesPHD

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Oregon

Mo Mo Patty Blinks [MoMo]

R/

Guild Wars is all about teaming up and busting things in the face as a team. Factions is all about joining a faction and busting things up as a Faction. Though the option to stay neutral is there, since the game concept is centered around players aligning with these factions you'll have to do it eventually anyways. Now if you really don't want to hold strong to either faction, you will be able to switch back and forth. But of course if you're a faction switcher you'll reap less benifit from each faction than you would if you were dedicated to just one.
My guess though is that eventually after playing the game after a while, you'll discover there is some content that you like that is only available to one of the two factions, and you'll eventually go towards them. Since you really don't want to be involved right now though, just go about like you wanted to and don't dedicated to either or. However it's unavoidable that you will have to involve your self with one or the other in order to obtain the "good stuff".

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I think this is what they are planning - Luxon armor is more Organic looking, Kurzick is darker (dare I say "Gothic"),
Sweet.. I might have to go Kurzick (if I can't get anywhere neutral). Necros gotta love goth.

Although, can't you return to Tyria with an A or Rt to get Tyrian armor? Or are Rt and A armors only in Cantha?...hmm.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Cantha is more typical "oriental" (I know that word can be offensive, I mean no offense, but don't know another way to describe it! "Traditional eastern?")
Quote:
Originally Posted by WikiPedia.org
The term is derived from the Latin word oriens, referring to where the sun rises in the east. The opposite term "Occident" - derived from the Latin word occidens, referring to the west - was once used to describe the western world, but has fallen into disuse.
I think Asian is more of a 90's and later term that was introduced b/c of political correctness.

But referring to factions as oriental themed sounds more correct than "asian-themed" b/c when you look at things classically described as oriental, Factions fits the bill.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I don't think the Elite stuff should be accessible to Neutrals, as that will be hard for even dedicated Luxon or Kurzick players to achieve!

But there should be some way to bypass the Luxon and Kurzick content, and have some Neutral quests, if that's a players choice!

Without knowing exactly how the game is set up, and how much involves Luxon and Kurzicks specific quests, it's hard to say...
hey, I wasn't suggesting that they let neutrals into elite stuff. But still, GW is more about guilds than anything (hence the name "GUILD Wars").

Either way, the game should foster players who aren't interesting in joining guilds or factions. I mean, if they did prevent players from getting essentials, it's be kinda foolish (IMO). You cut out teh casual players who only play GW off and on.

ubrikkean

ubrikkean

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

E/

Hm, what I'm more worried about is all the content I'll be missing if I stay loyal to my side... that really bums me out...

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenoranger
Either way, the game should foster players who aren't interesting in joining guilds or factions. I mean, if they did prevent players from getting essentials, it's be kinda foolish (IMO). You cut out teh casual players who only play GW off and on.
Agreed 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubrikkean
Hm, what I'm more worried about is all the content I'll be missing if I stay loyal to my side... that really bums me out...
I hope you can just spend your Faction and be able to do both... that's what I plan, at least.

If it bothers you, think of yourself as a spy!

Aeon221

Aeon221

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

[TEW]

N/

Its probably repeat mishes, like the Hatchery one.

Besides, since the game is logically going to focus on uniting Lux and Kurz vs the Evil Taint (wipe that taint boy! :P), I doubt choosing either side will cause you to miss out on much.

Anet made this baby, I think they know what is what when it comes to game design.

Vahn Roi

Vahn Roi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2006

[HiDE]

Think it has already been said...but spending your factions should have some impact right? Anyone know anything about Guild related alliance? Like say your guild allignes itself with Luxon, does that mean you are bound to the Luxs as well?

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
Think it has already been said...but spending your factions should have some impact right? Anyone know anything about Guild related alliance? Like say your guild allignes itself with Luxon, does that mean you are bound to the Luxs as well?
Just because your alliance is Luxon doesnt mean YOU have to be Luxon.

If you were Kurzich it just means you cannot spend your faction points for Alliance Standing (as you'd have the opposite faction points).

Vahn Roi

Vahn Roi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2006

[HiDE]

Thanks for the info

Mesti Arcanus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Zealots of Shiverpeak

Me/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
^ Only one advertisement said "all must choose a side."

Official releases have said that you can remain nuetral, however, I don't think it will be supported much and would probably be very difficult to do.
That advertisement being the back of the Factions pre-order case. And yes, I have it, so I'm not mistakening it for something else.

Kidney Licker

Kidney Licker

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Europe Server

What would be great is if the guildless were classified under "Tyrian Barbarians" or something. So the guildless could capture towns and cities, and they would be marked as being owned by the unwashed hordes. Maybe the rewards would not be as good as if part of an Alliance, but I would have thought every world would have its freebooters and mercenaries, and Factions would support it.

EternalTempest

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

I look from it from this perspective. As a hero from a ruined kingdom that saves the world from an evil lich and seen much hardship, travel to a new land to find another evil that needs to be stopped ... and oh the two powerful force's that were united behind the emperor before are in a civil war.... I want to slap both sides ... (this is being true to my characters coming from Tyria).

Now a new character in cantha rasied during a civil war views thing differently. Did one side kill parts of there family, born in one camp but your view or way of life drive you to the other side. Also this Shiro is just a legend / long dead right... why take it seriously at 1st.

That how it will determine my play. If I make a c2 character (most likely rit or asa) I can get behind one side. If it's my hero's from Tyria, will try to play the side as much as posssible if it will let me.

(Good to see you again Xeno )

Dove_Song

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I mean no offense, but don't know another way to describe it! "Traditional eastern?")

.
"Asian"

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidney Licker
What would be great is if the guildless were classified under "Tyrian Barbarians" or something.
I love this idea.
However, isn't the player always a merc? You're either a Canthan who seeks help from either Luxon or Kurzick, or a Tyrian merc/adventurer who is in the employ of the Canthans, seeking helps from Luxons or Kurzick. You're never - correct me if I'm wrong - a born Luxon or Kurzick.

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

I'm pretty sure Nuetral = Canthian. Rather then Luxon or Kurzick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalTempest
I look from it from this perspective. As a hero from a ruined kingdom that saves the world from an evil lich and seen much hardship, travel to a new land to find another evil that needs to be stopped ... and oh the two powerful force's that were united behind the emperor before are in a civil war.... I want to slap both sides ... (this is being true to my characters coming from Tyria).

Now a new character in cantha rasied during a civil war views thing differently. Did one side kill parts of there family, born in one camp but your view or way of life drive you to the other side. Also this Shiro is just a legend / long dead right... why take it seriously at 1st.

That how it will determine my play. If I make a c2 character (most likely rit or asa) I can get behind one side. If it's my hero's from Tyria, will try to play the side as much as posssible if it will let me.

(Good to see you again Xeno )
If you remember level 20's that go to Cantha from Tyria, will have a different storyline that'll wrap into the end game story line. I think what we viewed in the PvE weekend was a sample of it..

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubrikkean
Hm, what I'm more worried about is all the content I'll be missing if I stay loyal to my side... that really bums me out...
I'm thinking they may have something later similar to ascention where if you complete this portion of the game, you'll rise above the factions and possibly be able to go back and complete other faction quests and such... who knows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidney Licker
What would be great is if the guildless were classified under "Tyrian Barbarians" or something. So the guildless could capture towns and cities, and they would be marked as being owned by the unwashed hordes. Maybe the rewards would not be as good as if part of an Alliance, but I would have thought every world would have its freebooters and mercenaries, and Factions would support it.
Tyrian Barbarians....hmm

Interesting notion. Still, I'm wondering how it'll work for guilds. My wife is in a guild and we both preordered our copies of factions. As such, if her guild sides with one faction and she sides with the other, how's that affect the game dynamics?

Also, if Tyrians get a slightly different story, is that only in quests, or is that also in missions?

Either way, I am hoping that Tyrians can stay neutral. Also, can Tyrians become /Rt or /A? Just a few interesting issues, but kinda off topic.

Still, Tyrians would not care about the Factions (if you think logically) when the go to Cantha.

Oh well... 9 days left until I get to find out

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

We choose a side for our guild during the FPE. Not really understanding how the whole thing worked, is there any way to change the guild allegiance or will it be reset when the whole game comes out?

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Another question: Will there be zaishen in the storyline?

Silas Verdeii

Silas Verdeii

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Vancouver, Canada

Warrior Druids of Silvari

one thing that is also important to remember is that the FPE skipped over alot of neutral content in Cantha and just dove into the higher end area's of the game where the effects of "choosing a side" are more noticeable. I've seen some images of the complete map and there are alot of missions and towns in the canthan city that would be able to offer alot of material before having to chose a side. i guess it would be as if you could go through all of GW:P without chosing until you accended, then you had to chose,

also, as others have said i think, you lose faction by redeeming it for jade or amber(depending on which kind you redeem) and then i can see no reason(based on the FPE) why you couldn't go do the quests on the other side after you've spent the faction you have. that way you could essentially remain neutral by playing on both sides as your preference takes you. just not at the same time(cause faction is for the whole account, not just one character)

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Hmm... interesting.

So you now have points toward Balthazar, Kurzick, and Luxom factions. Interesting.

Although, the Balthazar are still the PVP points, but it's odd they list it under the "faction" section of your hero screen

Exoudeous

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

E/

you dont have to choose sides really, you can just do all the quests by joining sides as you see fit.

if you stay nuetral you are missing out on a huge chunk of the game, why do that?

Big_Iron

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

I say we create a third Faction that swoops in and kicks both the Kurzick's and Luxon's butts.

Fr_3_aK

Fr_3_aK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Australia

"Call my wife. Tell her i said, hello".

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

Quote:
if you stay nuetral you are missing out on a huge chunk of the game, why do that?
Because in the real world, neutrality and quasi-neutrality exist, and they provide additional, interesting pathways one can take?

There are lots of ways you could be interestingly neutral, ranging from being totally disinterested and affected only as an innocent bystander to being opposed to both of them to be being a merc or traitor fighting on both sides.

Obviously ANet couldn't possibly account for ALL of the possible paths you could take or they'd never finish the development, but it would have been interesting if they'd given something for that additional third option rather than this standard fare of forcing you to fall into the categories of "us" and "them".

Guild Wars acts too much like a team-based shooter. I like depth in RPGs. Give me more options!

nimloth32

nimloth32

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Celestial Order

W/Mo

personally, i think it would not hurt to choose a side..=D..rite?..

well, i think that this question will be better left until GW:F be released..

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctb
Because in the real world, neutrality and quasi-neutrality exist, and they provide additional, interesting pathways one can take?

There are lots of ways you could be interestingly neutral, ranging from being totally disinterested and affected only as an innocent bystander to being opposed to both of them to be being a merc or traitor fighting on both sides.
Obviously, ANet forgets about the classic "Mage" model. The standard Mage in other RPG's (I checked on this and it's not just Morrowind) doesn't take sides, but rather observes life as it passes. He/She makes minor adjustements to the flow of life to encourage its continuance, but does not interfer in major affairs.

There are also bards and other types of historians that don't interfere. Basically, they should have something like this in factions. People who aren't necessarily above teh politics, but rather step out of them. That's the nature of nuetrality that GW is missing.

But, so long as you can do faction quests (and your points don't count for/against another faction before you actually choose your side), That's fine with me.

Exoudeous

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

E/

well seeing as how the chapter is called FACTIONS, and getting control of areas through factions, there is no point at all in being neutral.

The whole thing with this chapter is controlling sides.

if you are neutral then you wouldn’t be able to join a side and fight in a lot of the pvp missions, thus you are missing a lot of the game by not taking a side.

so in game that’s about struggling and taking control, you want to be neutral. and because of that not only not getting any sort of benefit, you miss out on a major amount of maps?

and what’s with this mage being neutral crap, any iconic mage I can think of was definitely on one side or the other, because all fighters no matter what class are tools in the greater scheme of things.

when Anet said neutral, I’m pretty sure they meant you don’t have to stay tied to any one side, cause every time anet says something, its almost never what people assumes it means

Imaginos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove_Song
"Asian"
No the term would be Eastern. IF you look at some of the armor designs they have stuff in common with early moorish/persian type design along with chinese/japanese (among many others not listed). It is more of a middle eastern style look which covered a MUCH larger area then just Asian.

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

You could still say Oriental if you read my earlier post about the meaning of the word. Orient encompases the middle east as well as all of the "Asian" east.

Although, saying "Eastern" could also be translated as anything east, so it's a bad term b/c east could also include Austrelia. I highly doubt they have aboriginal armor in here.

xenoranger

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Where does Guild Wars Factions take place?

Guild Wars Factions takes place in Cantha, an Asian-inspired three-nation continent far to the south of the lands of Tyria, the setting for the original Guild Wars campaign.
Source: http://www.guildwars.com/aboutgw/faq...ctions-faq.php


Interesting. They have 3 nations, but only 2 factions? Something sound off?