Stop the area nerfing, kill the Runs.

Recently I've been talking with several people who play GW a great deal. We all want to know the reason that Anet has nerfed drops from spots in the game, but why they haven't dammed up Dreadnaughts Drift and various other places to prevent runs. I've heard on various forums and threads that Anet does not support running and actually dislikes people doing it. I have also heard Anet say that they wish to maintain the economy within the game, but by nerfing spots where people can earn money to afford to participate in the economy is retroactive to that cause. Not only do they nerf these spots, but I they haven't taken the drops away from the people who heavily took advantage of the farming spots before the nerf, thus causing an inbalance in the economy. Below are just my views and ideas on certain places and policies. This is completely an inquiry and opinion statement. I don't mean to flame Anet or any of its associates in the process, only share my views.

Dreadnaughts Drift (midshiverpeak area) - This place to my knowledge serves no purpose except that it allows Droc Runs. The area is very small and doesn't appear to have any other significance. If this area was closed, Droc's Runs from Beacon's Perch would effecitively end

Stingray Strand - Close the area so that you have to go all the way through Magumma and Riverside Provence in order to get to Sanctum Cay. This is the final destination area for those running most of the map and would cease it.

Sanctum Cay (mission) - Make it so that the gate behind the undead unique dragon just before the cutscrene won't open unless all the bone dragons are dead. After the cut screen, make it so that all the uniques before and at the docks have to die before you the Vizier will appear on the docks.

An alternate idea to each of these would be to create a game update that made it so that if party members weren't in a certain proximity to whoever goes through the "rezone" area those members would be kicked. This would kill many runs.

On to the lesser note of farming. While we can all agree, farming for items repeatedly kind of kills the purpose of the game. However, with the elevated prices of many items in the game, farming is almost needed to be able to afford it. Also another reason for farming is to secure high end equipment which is needed for many builds and characters to survive to the level 20 cap placed on players. As it stands, many players are inexperienced in the game because they get run and this harms teams greatly. Anet has designed this game that after a certain point a person must rely on other players to be able to proceed. This game can't be (or is extremely difficult to) beat with henchies or alone. I'm not saying that old places should be reopened, but I think Anet should revaluate certain things. If they wish to nerf a farming spot, penalize those players who have taken advantage of it by taking their items. Allowing these people to keep their items puts them on unequal ground (as I stated above) compared to those who come later in the game. If a person becomes rich in guild wars, it should be hard work, not through killing the competition.

All of these are just my opinion and I'd be more than happy to discuss the subject further with anyone. I hope this sparks some interesting inquiry and gets people thinking. Please feel free to post your opinions (constructive ones) in response to this post. If you are going to post derogatory remarks because you're an "elite or pro" runner, I'm sure the moderators will be more than happy to remove them.

Aye. Took me several weeks to learn that running is not a way to play the game. In sanctum Cay one can't even invite people anymore. I often joined a party there (I have local chat turned off), and they were charging me money to play the mission. Last time I checked, I already paid when I bought this game

/signed

ArenaNet Supports Runs they have even publicly spoke about supporting runs so odds are they will never close up any placces nor should they IMHO=/. Sure some of the runs have become more diffult thats becasue they haveto factor in both the PvE and PvP stand points on that topic so that cant be used to say they don't. There is nothing wrong with being ran (I tell people that are new I reccommend they play thru the storyline at least once ).

Konohamaru

"Signet of Approval"

The biggest problem with running, other then the moral failures that it achieves, is the fact that in some missions you can barely get a team together anymore.

dude you out of your mind... those who dont want to farm do runs, and this is their main income. the areas are there for over a year for a reason. people who have the skills can take advantag of them AND once youre done with the story line you still have something to do in the game (farming or runing or solo or pvp) for all those you need good equipment which costs money, or no money if you farm. you seem that you just want to make the game boring for those who have more then 1 character.

maby all i want is to get the 1 good armor instead of buying a crappy armor in each city i go to?
maby i need to level a character fast for guild purpuses or personal preference?
maby i'm sick of farming and need alot of cash for a FOW armor?

you just want to cut possibilities to make cash. why? cuz you're gealous of people making tons of cash and you not? or you made your wealth on runing and now want to close the "gold mine" of FAIR and STABLE money making? without standing and spaming WTS---Shadow blade----15k for hours, and just readin the 'looking for runner" spams...

ANET dosnt support runs, but they realise that some people NEED runs to places for diffrent reasons and that if they will colse runing market half of the gamers will be out of the game, to go play something more versatile then just the Story line
plz delete this thread so ANET dosnt see it and folow your "genious" advice

Hahaha.

Arena.net has stated several times that they do not mind running in the least.

Nothing's going to change anytime soon, champ.

Farming and running are here to stay, and are both the only real way to make a good amount of money quickly, save winning halls and getting a 15^50 dwarven.

May I ask how being ran is a moral failure. Imagine you have played through the complete storyline 2-3 times. Wouldn't you wanted to take a shortcut rather than playing a 4th or fifth time (if you decided to remake a character or two). Being ran is LEGIT for of money making. I agree it does have its negative effects, but if you close Dreadnaught drifts (why not jsut remove it completely). In all seriousness if you want to stop running the only way you can do it is by removing all non mission related explorable areas all together. I am sorry if I am sounding like a S.O.B., but this is like the what 100th thread about this and yet people do not read what ArenaNet's Stance on something is. Below is a link to the Very FF interview that they stated this. http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview. Based off of this they state that running was an intended FEATURE in guild wars.

Konohamaru

P.S. Please use the Search Feature to find a Non-Locked thread about a topic before you create a new one. Below is a link to the search feature: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/search.php

I disagree

Runs are supposed to be there for those who have gotten through the game at least once or twice, and closing entire areas are crazy. Should we close the area outside ascalon cause you can get run to sardelac? Absolutely not. And
then the worst part of it, you can't nerf an area and then take away those peoples items who farmed there, it isnt abuse it is strategy. Some people find it fun to farm and challenge themselves to get a run of farming done faster or whatnot. It'd ruin the game if they did what you said.

Damn, i really do apologise if i simply cannot be arsed to take my 6th character through the shitty place known as the jungle. That place sucks, it has the most annoying missions in the game and the pugs are getting worse out there, along with the number of leavers. I'd only end up doing the whole frigging thing using henchman anyway.
Took my mesmer 8 attempts at The Wilds to find a group that didn't leave after the 3rd group of Scarabs Touch spiked the monk.

Perhaps you want us to nerf entering areas alone too? That would stop solo farming and general exploration. Besides who the hell enters Lornars Pass using the level10 henchman supplied there? That area was designed specifically for running to Droknars imo.

Kyran...I agree with you on some of the movement around the map areas...Im not saint by any means, I have done it. I had to laugh the other night when a running group I was in had a lvl 1 character on our team running from the war camp around the "shiverpeak express" as it is called. The character simply wanted to get 15k armor from the citadel. Im mean really, what the heck does a lvl 1 char have going on to be that far across the map? ANSWER: Lots of gold!!! If you have it and want to get somewhere, people will get paid...if you want to get power leveled, people will get paid...if you want the stupid spider from UW...people will get paid alot!!! We all know the dynamics of farming...it will never go away. People will do whatever they can to get the gold. Nerfing everything is not the answer. Players on this game will figure out a new spots and techniques for gaining gold. Look at the future...Factions will have a whole new gambit of ideas for folks to get paid!! Once a char reaches 20 lvl, what is next? Some folks try new builds, some folks actually try to accomplish all the missions and quests, while others get paid for services rendered!! I still have not made it to all the places on the map yet...Im going through the misisons and quests myself. I have started my fourth character, new build strategy and still use my other characters to aid my guildies...my only personal point that I would like to make is just find the fun in the game...who cares what others do, if you are not having fun, you are not doing it right!!!

SAVIO PLZ DELETE THIS THREAD SO ANET DOESNT READ IT AND DOESNT TAKE KYRAN OF THE FLAMES SERIOUSLY AND STOP THE RUNS!!!!!!!

and yes! i realy meant to type in caps

ANet have specifically said that they made the areas connected like they are to facilitate movement back and forth. They have also said that they did not expect running to evolve as a profession the way it did but welcome it as a cool aspect of the game. They do make it hard on the runners but it's more of a challange thing than an actual nerf. And btw the Drift is an excellent farming area and also a place to cap FoC from.

Thankfully, A-Net isn't going to nerf the runs. I've made 5 characters since the begining of the game and I'm totally thrilled that the last 2 I could have run right to the desert without having todo the jungle *phew*. Not to menton spending money to buy 4 levels of armor only to be at droks a week later going "oh man I should have waited, I'm poor"

A large part of GW Prophecies is for higher level characters and it will be even more so come factions. Nerfing the runnning is a silly proposal at this point.

Firstly, if your a noob and get run through the entire game (example: level 4 in ring of fire) your not only not going to be able to get in a group, you also have robbed yourself of the entire gaming experience and wasted yourself 40 bucks in the process. And there are still those that *buy* there stuff on e-bay, oh boy what fun!!! <eyeroll>

Secondly, regardless if you run for money, for fun or just to help a fellow guildie out, you're realy not going to impact game play enough to justify a nerf. Most people that pve (unless your like 12 yrs old) are buying a game to be played, not to get to the end and say "oh that game is boring...blah blah".

I've played with people that have been on since beta and suck because they are totally bored with the game now, just to trash other peoples experiences... Too many variables to point to one type of thing being the culprit for bad game play.

A-Net has done some really groundbreaking work to the gaming world IMHO and things are pretty well balanced as far as I can see. The ones that complain about money and the poor economy just really aren't into the game enough to go out and earn it (AKA running and farming)... Kinda like real life!

I believe that speaks for itself.

Maw the Mountain Heart is in Dreadnaughts' Drift. The only place to cap Feast of Corruption.

Some people like to leave from Fisherman's Haven to do Villany of Galrath. Also some nice explorable areas out that way.

Agree

Maw the Mountain Heart also spawns in Lornar's Pass, Snake Dance, and Spearhead Peak.

He does not spawn in those area 100% of the time. He spawns in those zones approximately 10% of the time at best.

Got a map showing locations? All I could ever find was Dreadnaught's

I have always found this site to be decent for posting elite skill cap locations, and it only shows Dreadnought's Drift...

http://www.xennon.co.uk/eliteskills/

The only person I have ever ran was my wife. I'm not a runner and I can't see how running has any real negetive impact on the game or anyone else playing. It doesn't bring in an infux of money since the money is only being transfered from one player to another so prices at the traders won't be impacted by this. The only impedement this could have on others is if anet is against running and makes the enemies more difficult in certain areas of the game.

I don't know what anet's opinion on running really is because I haven't seen anything by them on it (not to say it doesn't exist). However they have made some runs much more difficult but I don't know if that was because they thought the run was too easy and should be more difficult or if it was to discourage running altogether. Either way, it does impede on others game play when anet throws in more, bigger and nastier mobs to stop or slowdown the runners. Rather then fighting three seperate groups of ten enemies, your now forced to fight one group of thirty nastier enemies to get to a certain place. If (and only IF) anet did this to try and stop runners then they should have just blocked the path in such a way that you must quest or do a mission (one you must fight) to access the place.

You would find all his spawnpoints on GuildWiki if it ever goes back up.

www.xennon.co.uk hasn't been updated in a long time, so it doesn't show the more recent elite skill spawns that have been added or changed.

GuildWiki is up. Got the maps, thank you.

Maria, that's about the only thing I agree with you in your post. Apparently you don't understand the concept of constructive criticism. While I could easily carry your argument about being "gealous" of other players' wealth, it would be petty and useless to try and appeal to the reason of a person like you. Also, learn how to use proper grammar.

Ending that note...

As I said, I welcome the opinions of others in the this case. Running in itself isn't a problem, except when people who want to play the game have to deal with lvl 5 people trying to join a mission at Thirsty River. We can all agree that the jungle is the least favorite place to go through. My point isn't against running as a whole, it's against the fact that Anet does things like nerf farming spots and still claim to "want to promote the game economy" but leave runs. If you're going to nerf one thing, nerf them all otherwise leave it as is. I do agree that if you're working on your 3rd-6th+ character playing through the game is redundant and I understand that running facilitates a certain service in that respect. I've been run and I run guildies all the time, if they've played through the game first. Mainly I'm just saying that Anet is inconsistant with its choices.

Allowing runs to take place is indeed needed for certain aspects, but they should possibly put in place level restrictions on certain districts to weed out people who no one will accept into their part anyway.

Just remember, even if you don't agree with my post or my reasoning, keep yourself from appearing as a RED ENGINE by not stating something so negative . State your opinion, possibly your reason for it, but don't flame someone else for what they think. I'd like to think the community of GG and GW are more mature and intelligent than naked albino mole-rats.

Ha ha. Yes, we all do so love Guild Wiki, but god if it isn't unreliable at times. Cheers for the internet!

My opinion: Running should remain as viable as it is now.

My reasoning: Anet has said it will.

What more is there to discuss, exactly?

/signed

Whats wrong with runs? Sure, after a while it gets annoying getting hit with poison arrow for the 100000000th time in ascalon arena >_< , but you can just get a run for yourself.

In dreadnoght's drift, their *used* to be chests that dropped gold rare skins (e.g. sephis axes), but they were edited out in one of the big patches.

I do agree about not nerfing farming spots.

Lol sign it all you want it won't get nerfed.

Its not exploiting anything. Its not unbalancing anything. Besides what are you gonna do if you nerf the droks run? Stop me running the long way round rather than doing missions? The game has high level areas for a reason. The only challenge after Kryta is finding a decent group, not doing the game. Shiverpeaks is different.

I use to do drok runs a while ago, in all my time of been a droks runner i ran into Maw The Mountainheart once in Snake Dance. The git scared me to death near where the entrance to Grenths is.

Like said earlier, i either run to droks and get the decent armour or go round the long way using starter or collectors armour. No way in hell am i paying for something, putting runes on it, then replacing 2hours later 3 missions down the line. Its just when people get ran places on there first trip through the game i don't understand.

First, theres always the chance that that poster you quoted doesn't speak English as their primary language. Its been known to happen...

Second, I dont see why having a level 5 trying to join your team in Thirsty River is a big deal to you or anyone else. If a player is not the level that would be required for the mission you are about to do, then simply hit that little button that denies the players request.

Third, its not exactly that Anet is nerfing alot of areas. There was a theory in the works that I once followed a bit. I am not sure if it is still as popular as I havent played as much as I once did. This theory is that many of these farming areas that once yielded amazing drops (and now drop crap for the most part) are on a table. The drops are fairly random, but it was thought that there was a table that was effected by traffic in said area. For example, 30 rare items drop in this given area in this hour. If this given area was being farmed by say 90 people, theres a good chance that only 1 out of three people will get a rare drop in that period. Obviously this is a very broad description of the theory, but I think you can get the idea. Now think of those extremely popular farming spots. Ettins, UW, FoW, Trolls, Griffons...just to name a few. Look at how many people are sitting around the nearby towns, then go through every district and add it up. Sit there and watch how many people are going in and out of the zone gates. If you dont want to take the time to do it, let me tell you...its alot of people. I believe that Anet will often times never need to hit that big red nerf button, when all they need to do is sit back and let a few smart people release their uber build in this new farming spot. Add a few screenshots of their uber drops and you have the majority of the Guild Wars community swarming the place. If this theory is true, or even somewhat close to how Anet has the drops setup, then you can see how hard it will be for you to get good drops, while those people that started farming the place first got some nice stuff.

Let me give you another quick example of why I believe it is fairly close to being true. We all know that ettins drop armor from which runes are salvaged. I started farming ettins a while ago, back when very very few people knew about how good it can be and there was pretty much no word about it on the forums. In a weeks time, I was pretty much always getting around 5 or 6 superior vigors and countless superior monk runes. I made alot of money off of those ettins, at first. Then I started seeing more and more people hanging out around Beetletun. The forums started speaking of "Ettin Builds". Soon, the drops were getting pretty skimpy, nothing compared to what I had been getting. Now, we can say that Anet was browsing the forums and realized there was a farming problem, and nerfed the place. Or we can look at the insane amount of traffic that goes in and out of Beetletun at certain times. The place is crawling with farmers, no doubt about it. I have noticed that I get better drops (yes, still getting those superior vigors often enough) when there is less activity at Beetletun. Less farmers online, more drops for me.

There, I believe I have typed enough on this.

Have to disagree.

There is nothing wrong with running or farming!

I actually ran myself through the entire desert to uncover the whole map. I didn't take anyone with me - might not have made it . Did it for the pure enjoyment of seeing everything in the desert.

I have run Guild members and have been run by Guild members. But always on a third or fourth character.As leader of my Guild I strongly "encourage" all members to play through the game on their first character.

In regards to the farming issue. I see no problem. Players want gold - they will find a way to get gold. I also see the changing of the mobs, like the arrival of the Scarab Queen outside of Augury Rock, as a challenge and some extra content for my gameplay enjoyment. It was only a 'nerf' for the solo farmers. It can still be "farmed" with a small party.

Guild Wars is a great game with many layers. Some you can and will participate in - others you don't have to participate!

The only good thing about the Scarab Queen was the story behind it. Found it quite amusing with the "Drawn by the corpses of griffons" sorta explanation.

The only problem is they replaced it with the biggest waste of space i've ever seen...

i am familiar with the turms of constructive criticism, and im familiar with grammar, but you see... im not writing an essay or research anything, im leaving a post on a forum discussing a PC game, and if you didn't notice in your post you have agreed to most of the things that i said.

I dont know if you realise it, but every program is never perfect from creation, to make it as close to perfect as possible, it needs updates and many small details that were not noticed during the process of creation, have to be fixed either way. Now, Runing was predicted to be a part of the game (confirmed by ANET), and it even turned into a new proffession. about the drops, some of the areas were by mistake programed to have a bigger drop rate with low skill requierments, and these areas can be found only by reading game lags, this is why ANET has to slowly repair those mistakes, so the repairs don't overstress the game economy and as i mentioned above, if this game would only consist of a story line, people wouldnt bother to play, and if all those nurfed areas would remail as original people would not be motivated to explore new areas, all the golds would be at a hand reach, and making money would not require any thinking efforts, which is oviously not your strongest characteristic.

and about the albino mole-rat... you oviously have major self esteem problems that you need to hide by firing stupid insults towards someone in a chat forum. only by posting that you just proved me being so much more mature then you.