Dont nerf farming, make it hard but rewarding.

That would be nice Neven

I agree with that as well but the problem is due to anets updates it isn't the case anymore. New comers don't have the same opportunity as those that played from the beginning do. Ah the good ol' day's. One of my favorites was the frozen chests in dreadnoghts drift. Me and my wife would go there with 5 superior salvage kits each and in the run of one hour come out with 30k worth of salvage each and that's selling it to the traders.

just wanted to restate the initial point i was making in this thread, which within two posts turned into an immature "farmers suck i hate j00 farmers ur all noobs" vs "I'm rich so i dont care" flame war

the main argument against farming seem to be "why should i grind just to make the same amount of money as everyone else", the intial idea behind this thread was to suggest more challenging places to farm, rather than "grind"

and WILL YOU STOP TELLING ME NOT TO FARM TROLLS
i dont farm trolls
i have no intention of farming trolls
i dislike troll farming because of the lack of challenge involved.

and just to let everyone know, i dont farm all day, i pvp regularly and am in a gvg guild, i dont have fow armour, nor do i ahve any problem with people that do.

Amazing how quickly contraversial subjects degrade into ego battles.

I am in favor of more challenging places to farm, with some better rewards. I think Anet is (to some extent) making current areas more challenging. Case in point: Prophet's Path (along with other areas that aren't as drastic).

I don't farm all day either. Only when guildies don't need help or aren't interested in challenges such as Titan quests of SF quests. Then I farm for a while.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is all high-level quest rewards get much better, then impliment a few solo or small-team only quests. =) Could even be class-specific. I think that would be fun.

Supposedly, this is all an attempt by Anet to keep the in-game market from crashing. *shakes head* i really don't know anymore.

The only change farming-side change I'd like to see from Anet is for them to un-nerf hencmen and drop rewards. As it stands, it is actually easier for my MONK to kill a mess of mobs than it is for my monk and henchmen. And with henchies, the drops bite.

Honestly, I think that was the stupidest thing Anet ever did, and they've been catching ten different types of hell ever since.

Im sick and tired of reading threads that say or post almost the same thing. Its really sad...

"Lets nerf farming."
"No lets have more farming!"
"NERF!"
"NOT!"
"NERF!"
"NOT!"
"SOLO"
"TEAM"
blah blah blah

Itd be a lot easier IF IN EVERY outpost or town there was this little icon. When you press the icon a window comes up. This window is a list of everyone in this place:

Character Lvl Profession Interests
Zhou Feng 20 Mo/Me Farming Group
Lord Shizo Zaibatsu 20 Wa/R Questing Solo
Lady Xin Yun Ming 20 Ne/Mo Farming Solo
.
.
.
etc

This way you can see who are interested in farming solo, group or qeusting solo and/or in group. Then you can invitge them to quest or farm.

Secondly I believe farming should be viable. I have a dream that Guild Wars will reward both Solo Farming and Team Farming but in its own way. Perhaps Team Farming should be for higher level areas (make more of these) with bigger rewards. But I still think Mobs and Maps should be a bit more dynamic so farming can be interesting and challenging.

Third I believe that Quests should be not just more enjoyable but also offer very impressive rewards. Not just XP and Gold rewards but random uncommon to rare rewards including perhaps keys for chests and good loot. So that way you can actually have a good reason to do Quests.

Fourth I believe that Quests should be, perhaps, shareable. So if say I have done a quest but I go with someone doing a quest, I will get auto-flagged and gain access to the quests (This is an optional only suggestion. I saw this similalrly in WoW, but Im unaware how it works there) The gist is that people can redo quests AND GET RANDOM GOOD TO IMMPRESIVE REWARDS! So doing a quest all over again has merit and incentive. "Yo Im doing this quest for the 200th time but Im getting some good stuff! I even got a green!" That way questing will be more viable.

ANd please lets stop with the farming issue. Some people want to farm solo, team or quest. Thats fun for them. I do believe in reducing farming by actually giving incentive to do other stuff (24/7 farming ruins economy unless we get some serious cool cash sinks and cash loops like actionjacks Dungeon Amusement Park) so make Quests BE SOMETHING.

Finally sub arc and sub quests that alter story line in diffrent ways so we dont just have to farm farm farm quest quest quest but also enjoy diffrent story effects.

tbh the main reason i farm with my monk and warroir is for the chanllege, i have completed the game and done everything so y not be able to go farm certain areas to test ur skills and make a bit of money.

also agree with making farming hard but with better rewards, i mean i basicly cleared all of snakes and got one gold :/..... now that took alot of time and wasn't rewarding but it was a chanllege.

on another note i agree that farming has basicly killed UW groups for questing. its so hard to find a group and when u do they normel leave after 30 mins saying the drops aren't good

so as i see it i can farm hard area but get nothing good in partical or go to FoW *yawn*.... or just duo farm UW make money and do the quests >_>

Well if Anet made the mobs more randomized that would certainly give you the challenge you want. If you couldn't predict the enemies location, class and skills then you would have your challenge. Actually it would probably be challenging enough that you would have to have atleast a few henchies. Then you can be challenged with finding skill sets that work well in a group.

Yeah it's not what it used to be. I think anet made some program changes but I'm not sure. I think it could be a hint from anet.

Sounds like your bored with the game. Don't worry, Factions will be here soon.

I'd like to put out the call here to everyone with the extra cash. If people want to whine about farming I say farm more. Fatten up those bank accounts. Pay high prices for premium goods and sell high too. If anything jack the prices up some more. This economy is just like the real world economy. Money talks. the poeple with the money can swing the economy however they want to. If we want to preserve our way then we need to shut down this pathetic little anti-farming movement with strangling prices. Force a reset if we have to and then drive the prices right back up again. I know for a fact that there are those of us sitting on mass amounts of runes and ecto not to mention gold. We have the choice to either force a reset and then drive it back up with hoarding or dump everything and make the value of gold plummet so fast that it turns into an item based economy like Diablo 2. If all these anti-farming folks want to put pressure on ANet and whine in these threads then we should throw our clout about too.

Give me another week. Waiting for Factions to find a good place to start using my hordes of gold.

I'm pulling my entire guild in on this one. All it would take is the equivalent of a few billion gold getting dumped on the market at once to crash the economy or like I said we can drive it up and wait for a reset then immediately drive it up again and constantly maintain the status quo. This anti-farming nonsense is just sickening and if reasonable discussion won't work then we just use the means we have at our disposal, our cash. they can't shout down our platinum. They can't argue with our gold. They sure as hell don't have the means to fight back. Get your guild in on it. Start smurf accounts so you don't get banned for hording. Put small ammounts scattered amongst multiple accounts and then just wait. If you want tp put your hordes of gold to good use though dump it into player based merchants like rune traders and material traders. Those are the ones that will put a hurting on the economy the most because they are the only variable merchants. All other merchants are money sinks. In general though the more cash that circulates in the economy the higher the inflation rate. Right now most farmers just sit on their loot and don't let it get back into circulation. If we ever dumped all of it at once it would crash everything. We can also artificially inflate prices by sitting on high end goods to increase the rarity if we like. Just remember it's us who has the power here not them.

I think my discussion was reasonable. You, on the other hand, are quite clearly just being a prick. Ruin the economy? Now who's being unreasonable?

Don't worry Undivine, anet monitors the economy and if they pulled something like this off anet would do more than just reset they will finally see the source of the problem and create a more extreme solution. They may even use the idea of making it a requirement to have a minimum number of people or henchies in your party to enter combats areas.

i deleted my 55 monk cuz it got so easy it was boring... would be nice, not to nurf anything, but create in some areas that are Unused, high level mission with rewarding drops and more challenge, like anouther ToPK (cuz its just getting boring with all the rangers who dont have Barage and Pets, yet join B/P groups, it takes forever to find a PUG that can make it to end)

by unsused territoty maby.... east of Hero's Audience (where mountains are bloking passage), waaaay north Kryta or Jungle

Guess I better get back to my extreme solo farming before Anet shuts it all down. ROFLMAO


P.S. This thread now qualifies for the Off Topic and Absurd section.

Hunter you still don't get it!
Nc-Soft would not let Anet do that, they make to much money on all the ppl in certain countrys bying multiple(100's) accounts for farming only, what we think about the economy in game has no effect on the economy at NC-Soft headquarters in Korea. The amount of sold games is what they care about in the end. Do you seriously think they are going to turn down selling X amount of GW to keep a couple of thousend ppl happy. They are likely banning xxx amount of accounts each day knowing that every ban will sell 2 or more copy's of the game. And aslong as ppl can farm they can ban do the math, no monthly fee's(no income) only source of revenu is SOLD GAMES.

All the resets in the world won't be able to shut down the sheer amount of gold that farmers are just sitting on. Not to mention the runes. If anything a reset will simply encourage us to buy up runes at the low reset prices until they jump right back up again. We have the money to do it so why shouldn't we? You people want to whine about it then we fall back on what we have going for us which is our vast reserves of loot. There is nothing they can do to stop farming. Even if they implemented the solo farming code that I've mentioned time and time again all it will do is make guilds like mine band up go farm with a full party and pool our resources like we always do. All you people are really doing is pissing off the one group in this game you really shouldn't piss off. We will survive economic reset after economic reset and as you can see from the current state of the game it takes us only a matter of weeks to drive prices back up to where you will complain. If you think things are bad now wait until farmers start getting together to make your lives really difficult. Seriously man we can swing this whatever way we want. If we want to make Superior Vigors sell for 100K at the merchant we certainly can. We've got the cash to do it. What's more we could do that, they could reset and we could immediately do it again. If you want to keep whining we can make this game impossible for anyone but elite farmers and we can keep it that way continuously. I've got the money to buy new accounts ad inifinitum, you might shut me down for a week but come payday I'll have two more accounts and what's more I'll do it just to spite you people. You guys have pissed me off beyond all reason and right now I'm willing to go through any expense just to make things difficult on people like you. So please keep on talking about how the mighty ANet will step in on your behalf. I'd love to see them do anything we can't undo. Like Stockholm here said every ban they make only sells them two more copies. So why should they fix anything?

Honestly the only thing I can see ANet doing to alleviate this situation is to do what Sony did with Everquest and set up servers for us. Otherwise we're going to sit here on our loot and we're still going to keep the poor people poor while we get richer because that's the way of the world. Is it fair? No but life isn't fair. I don't know why you expect a game that is made so that a company can profit to be fair either. Farmers are probably a huge percentage of their player base and farmers, because of space restrictions are constantly buying new games. So why should they try to shut us down when we make so much damn money for them?

I'm not sure what the Opp wants. Make farming harder and the rewards better? But...
Rewards can't get better because of the balancing system. Or do you mean more yellow/green drops? How whould that help? I mean: What's the difference between 5 farming runs and obtaining that specific green item, or 5 farming runs and buy it from the gold you farmed?

I think the ONLY acceptable reason for making farming even harder than its now, would be to reward it with items with extra bonusses. But that wont happen, will it?

I like farming and yes, I would like to have more yellow and green drops. But with the current lack of variation in stat combinations its quiete useless. So lets start to ask for more combinations. e.g. Why are so many items based on skills they don't 'help'? When I use a rod that halves my healing skills recharge I want it to be based on healing skills only and not on devine favor...

Do it. Im serious I want to see yas try.

You guys are just pissed because I was right. I proven what I've said while the rest of you just yap with nothing to back up your arguments.

Nothing has been proven. We still farm and get richer.

Just because you still do it doesn't mean nothing was proven it just means nothing was done. Toilet or hole in the ground???

Don't matter as long as I have a supply of toilet paper.

As far as I can see you keep repeating the same tired argument and using the same quotes that do not prove your point but seem to support the opposite. Repeat: Nothing has been proven. When Anet takes action then you can gloat and claim you were right. Until then things are what they are which, for the time being, indicates (not proves) that you are wrong.

Str0b0 actually seems to be agreeing with us, Hunter. Agreeing on the consequences of farming, anyway. It's just that he's a prick and wants all the things we don't want to happen, happen.

I think ArenaNet is also concerned with their profit margines... they are the ones who support the servers after all, and that costs money. They are, however, making enough to maintain themselves. I'm sure they're thinking of the bottom line, but they also put their heart and soul into this project. It's the only game ANet has ever made. They don't want their game to degrade into grind (as they've stated many times). In fact, that's why a great many people play GW; because of the supposed lack of grind and more meaningful play. Look at the crap SOE did with EverQuest. They lost a lot of their popularity by taking it into the direction of grind and making everything come down to the phat lewt.

They have put some marginal efforts against farming. They nerfed Protective Bond, they made some farm locations (UW, Crystal Desert griffons) harder to farm. They seemed to have designed Tombs with the specific intend that it cannot be soloed.

There are some things they can do to completely remove the incentive for farming (while not actually nerfing soloing), but it does take a lot of code and effort to make those drastic changes.

Anyway, I'm not going to reply to Str0b0 anymore. He's clearly just trying to egg us on, and he's being unreasonable.

I'm just printing this thread so I will have plenty of papper and finally it will be useful.

lol. Good one.

Tell me how does anet saying that it's a problem when people find ways to get ten times the gold an average player can support the opposite?


mmm, can't wait.

Edit: So what your saying Undivine is that str0b0 is being hypocritical. Good to know.
Your right this is anet's baby and they want it to be as successfull as possible and with what anet said in the interview I can only assume the majority of players in the game don't repetitively farm and are in the situation they indicate as being unable to stay competetive with trade. As for NC-Soft, they have many games out most (if not all) of which require a monthly fee so I doubt they are concerned about making money of just GW. If they think they can make money off banning accounts so people have to buy new ones then why would they make it more difficult to farm? Wouldn't they make it easy to acquire gold to sell on ebay or where ever and increase their monitoring so they can ban more people?

Please don't hold your breath while you are waiting.

I'm just telling you there are going to be consequences if you continue to push on with this ridiculous crusade. Just like in real life money will rise up and squash you. I'm not agreeing with you since you want to put an end to all farming which is frankly stupid. I'm just saying the only way both of our interests can be served is if Anet puts servers aside just for people like me to trade, sell and farm on and let the rest of you waste your time trying to get the drops that we get on a regular basis because we manipulate the law of averages, or if not manipulate then at least we realize that it exists and we can make it work for us. If you continue in this though soon it won't be just me a monty and our guilds and the others I have managed to recruit( a combined asset pool of well over 200 million between the people I've pulled in plus whatever monty and his crew have.) looking to make your life miserable. It will be other farmers that don't want to see our cash cows ruined. You keep sticking your hand in the fire and jerking it back just short of getting burned but if you persist things can be difficult for everyone except those of us with gold and loot. Given that soon we will have alliances and alliance storage space my dream of economic manipulation on a grand scale will be a whole hell of a lot closer to reality. But you go right ahead and keep on whining in these posts. In the meantime I'll be fighting back with the means at my disposal which, unfortunately for you, are much greater than any you can muster.I'll also be sure to credit you with sparking this movement of mine on so when people start bitching about high prices and economic collapse they can all come talk to you.

Okay. Anet uses terms like "casual farming" and "extreme farming". I guess we would have to know what they mean by "casual" (which they seem to support) and "extreme" (which they seem to frown upon). I always thought casual farming was what I do (I might spend a few hours a week farming), and extreme farming was the 24/7 bots (which I think most of us are opposed to).

Once we have those definitions confirmed, then we can continue this discussion. Unitl then (sorry about this ..... drum roll) nothing has been proven.

Edit: And as Str0b0 points out in the next post, just those few hours a week have made me very wealthy, and quite a few of my guild members have gotten wealthy as casual farmers. Money talks

Indeed I spend a max of 4 hours a week farming. Not extreme by any stretch and yet somehow I still have loot. I once again have to say that given that I can only really play about 4 days a week due to work schedules that means about an hour a day. That means that you too could have loot like mine if you wanted to apply yourself and stop being lazy. If you put half the effort into casual farming that you put into piss and moaning on this forum then you'd be swimming in more loot than you would ever be able to spend. Bot farming and professional farming for profit are what is really messing this economy up and yet you seem to want to villanize all of us. "Oh the big bad farmers make it impossible for me to get the vanity items I want for my character." you want to talk about cash being dumped onto the market talk to second party gold sellers and buyers not us. Like I said we sit on our loot mostly. It circulates between players, admittedly usually the same set of decent farmers but it circulates none the less. Keep on antagonizing us though and see what happens when we cease to sit on that loot anymore and when it all gets dumped at once or when we continue to sit on it and wait for resets just so we can jack prices back up again.

We don't know how many Bot's are being bannd daily but from reading other threads here ppl are getting bans on a regular base, some from farming to much and some from dealing with ppl doing ebay bussines. They all claime to be unfairly treated but bans are handed out and I bet most of them come back on a new account. And as I said earlier the have not done the same nerfs on asian servers as on US and EU servers. I bought an FFS 15% from a korean player and he told me they still get them from the collector and on US and EU servers that item is now only 10%, so they made it harder for us to farm with a 55 not for the pro farmers. Keep asking for nerfs and we can start buying all high end items in int.dist. because there they will not be nerfed.

Not all farming just repetitive farming but the problem is if people can do it twice or three times when they are on then there is nothing to stop them from doing it the whole time they are on.

Well anet specifies by saying twice the amount of gold (casual) and ten times the amount of gold (repetitive). The twice and ten seem to be amounts thrown in as an example of what they mean so there is probably a give and take to both amounts. For example "ten times give or take 2" so 8 to 12 times. Now for me I see casual as farming maybe for 30 minutes in the 3 hours you are on and then with the loot you find you either keep, give to a friend (or guildie) or sell to the appropriate trader. What I see as repetitive or extreme aka excessive is you only spend 30 minutes in the 3 hours doing quests and missions and spending the rest farming. Then refuse to sell anything to the trader (unless you think noone will buy it which is usualy items that recieve more money from the merchant).

The seporate districts (or servers rather but that would probably cost alot more) idea is a bad one. Provided the different districts had separate economies. But what would stop the people from taking the cash flow between the districts? Wouldn't work.

Yeah I saw those threads too. They got their accounts back after notifying anet.

Ok given that we can agree upon the definitions of extreme farming we can also agree that extreme farming is bad. To me it sucks because it takes away my competitive edge in an already crowded market to you it sucks for economic reasons. As for the idea of seperate districts or servers the same thing that keeps you from swapping between regions, a limited ability to move between them. So it seems we can agree on something after all.

^ Exactly what quickmonty said :P

It also wouldn't work because people want to sell their stuff. Why would they want to sell it to farmers? The farmers aren't going to buy it.

If the farmers really want to be separated from us non-farmers, why not leave GW and go play one of the MMORPGs that is designed around farming?

And the fact is, we cannot separate the casual farmer from the excessive farmer. Both of them engage in the same activity, but while one is more destructive than the other, there isn't a way to stop one without stopping the other, unfortunately.

Now see that's the kind of idiotic response that makes me aggravated with you. " Why not go play another MMORPG?" Umm because I shelled out 50 bucks for this one and I want to play it. That's why. Just don't even bring that up like it's a valid option again. I could just as easily tell you that if you don't like us farmers you can go play chess or some other game that doesn't involve farming at all. That doesn't make it a valid option.

I knew we could

The question is, is there a happy medium? A solution for both sides...
I dunno, I think they might. As it stands now with the price of items being sold they are only affordable by other farmers.

That I agree with. If people can do it a little then there is nothing to stop them from abusing it. And your right, it would be unfortunate but I think it would be less unfornutate if they stopped both by having it so you need a minimum size party before entering a combat area (2 out of 4, 3 out of 6 and 4 out of 8) and return the drop rate to it's former glory before the nerfing.

I can't speak for others who don't like to farm but I think this would be a good medium. For myself, I wouldn't care to have to be in a full group (provided henchies stay as an option) but solo and paired farmers would be absolutely against that so I picked 50% of a full party. Now that would still reign in favor of those that don't farm so I add the return of the old drop rate to compensate the group forming. So it would ruin it for sweatfarmers and bots as well as other repetetive farmers while keeping it worth while for casual farmers even with the henchies. As for those that like the challenge, if they made the mobs more randomized in ways that has been mentioned that would certainly boost the challenge rating.

As long as farming isn't shut down entirely I can deal with it. Otherwise I have to say I'm not going to be in favor of any solution that absolutely shuts down farming.

I don't think it would block farming just change its form so you do it in small parties. It would be the same as SF farming but instead of greens you would be going for the same stuff as you are now. So those that farm would make money twice as fast in half parties then those that are only questing and doing missions with full parties. Twice as fast instead of ten times faster, just what anet thinks is acceptable. Casual farming without the extreme farming.

Farmers needs are the same as cooperative group needs. Drops have been nerfed to nothing and everyone wants the "good old days" to come again... Golds use to drop similar to faction's beta drop rate. BUT don't hold your breath.

Greens were introduced due to consumer demand and now the whole system is out of wack. Why? Because the SF update and the Tombs update made playing in other areas a bad choice if you wanted equal rewards for effort.

Currently spots which are farmable are nerfed nerfed nerfed till they become worthless to play. Wasn't the game built around the idea of having more content availiable to high level characters? I think the only way this can be truly achieved is to make drops relatively equal in pay off everywhere.

In reference to the casual verse serious farmers... Well bots are bad (wastes bandwith)... KILL THEM ALL! However, people shouldn't be attacked for trying to get items they want or gold they think they need. Cosider this: Would you be in favor of wealth distribution. Once a month A-Net could divide the total gold of all GW's players and evenly redistribute it to the whole current population. hehehe point is - people should get what they work for.

If forming parties becomes a problem because everyone is farming, then the best solution (which still lets rewards = effort) would be to increase the difficulty of the game. Not nerf the drops. LoL How can anyone justify a BETTER drop rate for a BIGGER party size, which should be able to clear an area faster.

The ideas are good,
but the majority of players right now is proberbly farmers(pro farmers), we don't see them in missions and quest, but we see them in trading places, if you try to get a group togheter today it's hard (if you look at the amount of players in towns and outposts) so the question is will they drive away the broad base of customers or leave it as it is?


And Hunter you should not belive what you read from Anet about farming policies, I bet they have one official policy and then the corporat one witch is stampd CLASSIFIED. Most Corps. do