I HATE bots
/signed
Time for an Upgrade Merchant
edoclv
ArianeB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
/signed
But I fear this would probably go the route of the Rune trader. The best mods will skyrocket in price and players will go back to selling amongst each other. The less than perfect mods will fall in price until they are all but worthless. |
It would set price controls on perfect mods reflective of supply and demand, selling these at full value and buying them back at about 2/3rds the selling price. The open market would still be popular as people try to sell at greater than the merchant buy price and buyers try to buy at less than merchant sell price.
Black dye trades on the open market at about 6.5K which is a good deal for both the buyer (rather than dye trader at 8K) and the seller (dye trader buys black at 5K)
But the other advantage of a weapons mod trader is availability of basic mods. I like the elemental bow strings, because if you know when and where to use them they are better than any other strings. But the elemental strings are hard to find. No one stocks them, because they are not profitable. Hence they are hard to find in the open market.
azuresun
/signed
quickmonty
Been hanging back just reading everyones thoughts as I wasn't sure one way or the other.
But now .................
/signed
and thanks all for a nice discussion without flames and such.
But now .................
/signed
and thanks all for a nice discussion without flames and such.
Adamant
/signed
I dont see why the merchant shouldn't have perfect mods, since pvp characters start with unreasonably perfect weapons
I dont see why the merchant shouldn't have perfect mods, since pvp characters start with unreasonably perfect weapons
Count to Potato
/signed
Similiar thrread in Riverside Inn
Similiar thrread in Riverside Inn
Sientir
/signed
I've said many times lately that i'd like a weapon mods trader. I mean, for crying out loud, greens hardly suffice. What if you want a zealous sword of fortitude? there isn't a green for that. In fact, as far as i know, except for a bow, there are no zealous green weapons.
As was also stated, you can craft or collect weapons. But to actually make a sword or bow or axe from scratch is stupidly expensive because of the price of weapon mods.
The other issue is freakin' finding mods. Finding them is a world of pain, imo.
I've said many times lately that i'd like a weapon mods trader. I mean, for crying out loud, greens hardly suffice. What if you want a zealous sword of fortitude? there isn't a green for that. In fact, as far as i know, except for a bow, there are no zealous green weapons.
As was also stated, you can craft or collect weapons. But to actually make a sword or bow or axe from scratch is stupidly expensive because of the price of weapon mods.
The other issue is freakin' finding mods. Finding them is a world of pain, imo.
quickmonty
You may not find what you want, but a good place to begin your search
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/browse.php/id=260
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/browse.php/id=260
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by milan
/Unsigned
If it was forced into the game then at least make it that you could only buy what you have unlocked previously in game, and it automatically adds it to the weapon - which then becomes unsalvagable, like collectors weapons. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
edit: I forgot, /not signed to keep greens the cheap things they are =D
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As well as letting you buy a green when you want it, not spend an hour going around spamming that you want to buy it, then finding someone and spending another 10 mins arguing about the price because they dont like the price lists. This happened while I was trying to buy flints fleshcleaver, a common and cheap green, I dont want to think what it will be like for the greens most people acutally want. When have you ever seen people arguing over the price of ecto or runes ?
twicky_kid
I would like to hone this discussion to something we can agree on without killing the market. Have a crafter that can add the mods so you cannot sell it to other players.
1. You can only mod a customized weapon at the vendor.
This would remove any selling abuse by players to make that perfect weapon for a couple of plat and sell it for 500k.
2. You can only craft a mod that you have unlocked before.
Again preventing abuse from players that just come into the game and have the perfect weapon set from day 1.
Would like a more discussion and AGREEMENT on this from readers. You can't make everyone happy but you can make the majority happy.
1. You can only mod a customized weapon at the vendor.
This would remove any selling abuse by players to make that perfect weapon for a couple of plat and sell it for 500k.
2. You can only craft a mod that you have unlocked before.
Again preventing abuse from players that just come into the game and have the perfect weapon set from day 1.
Would like a more discussion and AGREEMENT on this from readers. You can't make everyone happy but you can make the majority happy.
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
You may not find what you want, but a good place to begin your search
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/browse.php/id=260 |
This also adds another point, those price lists need to be kept up to date to be useful, but it takes a lot of work to keep them accurate. And thats assuming that the people running it dont manipulate the prices for their own gain, which is quite possible if the list is used by enough people. If its not used by enough people for manipulation, its probably also not used by enough people to be useful in the first place. But currently thats the only way for most of us to find out how much something is worth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I would like to hone this discussion to something we can agree on without killing the market.
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To me it seems that the rune and dye markets are working well, so what makes greens and weapon upgrades different ?
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
And how exactly would weapon upgradde or green weapon traders kill that market ?
To me it seems that the rune and dye markets are working well, so what makes greens and weapon upgrades different ? |
Dyes don't vary in stats that's why the merchant never destroyed its market but rather stablized the cost.
Runes only have 3 grades of choice and 1 of those is not even worth using so really there is only 2 grades IMO.
Upgrade mods have a wide range of stats which determine value. That should be kept the same but control the cost of perfect or near perfect mods.
bilateralrope
Quote:
| If the merchant only sold perfect mods it will make all non-perfect drops worthless. |
Quote:
| It would also allow that player to get the perfect weapon from day 1. |
People with farming character can currently get that perfect weapon for their other characters on day 1 already. Those new to guild wars will not have the gold to do so.
What the weapon upgrade and green traders will do is:
Stablize the prices of the upgrades and greens according to supply and demand, not fix the prices at any value.
Make it so that if you have the gold, you can buy it when you want, not spend ages tracking down the person with it then haggleing over the price.
Make it so that when you have a valuable upgrade or green, you dont have to spend hours tracking down someone with enough gold to buy it
I still dont see how having a stable price and the ability to quickly buy and sell what you want when you want would destory the market.
WasAGuest
/signed
Love the idea.
Love the idea.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
If the price of a perfect mod is too high, people will go for the one just below it. Like they do with vigor and absorb runes now. Why would they not do the same for weapon upgrades ?
People with farming character can currently get that perfect weapon for their other characters on day 1 already. Those new to guild wars will not have the gold to do so. |
NO PERSON HAS A FARMING CHARACTER FROM DAY 1.
If you do you bought your account from someone else. The point is the new player that just started GW would not be able to walk to the merchant with the gold he was able to scrounge up and buy the perfect mods and attach them to a collectors weapon on day 1 and be set for the rest of his GW life. We are trying to make the mods more affordable for casual player and faster to find. Not destroy the entire market or trade.
Shika Xblade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rayne Nightfyre
/signed!
It is simply stupid to have to pay 120k+ for a Sword Pommel of Fortitude +30. |
Shika Xblade
(sorry for double post)
with the topic, why not just have gold 15%^50% weapons traders for 20k? If your handing out all the perfect mods for TEN PLATINUM, then the market would collapse. Its called economics. You have to have good items, and bad items. You have to have rarer items than others. You have to have very high costing weapons. Some reasons being:
1> if everything was low priced, nobody would have the drive for money anymore. FoW armor would be like 500k at this scale, and everyone would be sporting it. In this case, not only would the weapon upgrade market be crippled, so would the ecto/shard market, since Fow is so cheap.
2> nobody would have any use for gold anymore. It would become worthless
3> the system would just collapse. Nothing would become of any value anymore. Everyone would have awesome items, which in perspective means nobody have awesome items
with the topic, why not just have gold 15%^50% weapons traders for 20k? If your handing out all the perfect mods for TEN PLATINUM, then the market would collapse. Its called economics. You have to have good items, and bad items. You have to have rarer items than others. You have to have very high costing weapons. Some reasons being:
1> if everything was low priced, nobody would have the drive for money anymore. FoW armor would be like 500k at this scale, and everyone would be sporting it. In this case, not only would the weapon upgrade market be crippled, so would the ecto/shard market, since Fow is so cheap.
2> nobody would have any use for gold anymore. It would become worthless
3> the system would just collapse. Nothing would become of any value anymore. Everyone would have awesome items, which in perspective means nobody have awesome items
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
People buy the next best thing because the price for a perfect mod is too high for a meer 1 point. If all perfects were available then why would you buy anything other than perfect?
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I'm talking about relying on the supply and demand code to determine the prices for the upgrades, not some fixed value. Sure, at the start there will be some issues as the price adjusts to the actual value, but they will only be short term.
Quote:
| We are trying to make the mods more affordable for casual player and faster to find. Not destroy the entire market or trade. |
1 - You haven't shown how this will destory the market
2 - By adding a trader NPC, we remove the possibility of people price gouging. Therefore the prices will fall to more reasonable levels.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shika Xblade
(sorry for double post)
with the topic, why not just have gold 15%^50% weapons traders for 20k? If your handing out all the perfect mods for TEN PLATINUM, then the market would collapse. Its called economics. You have to have good items, and bad items. You have to have rarer items than others. You have to have very high costing weapons. Some reasons being: 1> if everything was low priced, nobody would have the drive for money anymore. FoW armor would be like 500k at this scale, and everyone would be sporting it. In this case, not only would the weapon upgrade market be crippled, so would the ecto/shard market, since Fow is so cheap. 2> nobody would have any use for gold anymore. It would become worthless 3> the system would just collapse. Nothing would become of any value anymore. Everyone would have awesome items, which in perspective means nobody have awesome items |
darkraider53
How about the upgrade traders only sell upgrades youve unlocked. it would cost faction/salavaging one and money, get some use for faction in PvE
EDIT
maybe the upgrade traders mods could not be traded but the ones salavaged can
EDIT
maybe the upgrade traders mods could not be traded but the ones salavaged can
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by darkraider53
How about the upgrade traders only sell upgrades youve unlocked. it would cost faction/salavaging one and money, get some use for faction in PvE
EDIT maybe the upgrade traders mods could not be traded but the ones salavaged can |
For your second, have you ever seen someone buy a rune from a trader then try to trade it with another player ?
I haven't, and thats because it costs more from to buy from a trader than another player is willing to pay you for it (if they wanted to pay the traders price, they would of gone to the trader. If they are willing to pay more, they are stupid ). So this would happen anyway, once the traders price settles.
BahamutKaiser
Yeah, alot more traders, or they could make a smith that can add these on your customized weapon.
/signed
/signed
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
Huh ?
1 - You haven't shown how this will destory the market 2 - By adding a trader NPC, we remove the possibility of people price gouging. Therefore the prices will fall to more reasonable levels. |
If only the perfect mods were available then there is no need for lower grade mods. So all the weapons and mods you farm for are worth absolutely 0 unless it is perfect. Why would I even bother sitting in trade channels for hours looking for a mod when I can simply walk up to the merchant and buy the perfect stat mod? We need a crafter or trader for perfect mods but not to the point where it makes all other lower grade mods pointless.
If you introduce a trader that sells perfect mods to anyone with the gold (there is too much gold floating around in GW as it is) there will be no need for non perfect mods. You need some kind of limiting tool for the merchant or crafter.
The best basis for this is only being able to craft mods you have unlocked on your account. It is the perfect solution to keep the perfect mods out of the hands of new GW players and make them readily available to casual players. Since the mods are available at a crafter to put into your weapon the price gouging would stop and less demand for the mods is created. That will also lower the price.
New GW players would be able to pick these mods up for themselves within a short amount of time without just giving them the very best from the get go.
The main reason this is needed is because you don't just need one 30hp mod you need about 10 for all of your weapons. My war alone is using 9 different weapons. Lets not mention my monk, ranger, necro, mes, another ranger, and ele.
Making it available to only customized weapons will prevent the creation of a 100k+ weapon to sell to other players.
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by twicky_kid
The perfect mod market will not suffer from this. It will bring the price down to be more reasonable. The lower grade weapons is where the problem is.
If only the perfect mods were available then there is no need for lower grade mods. So all the weapons and mods you farm for are worth absolutely 0 unless it is perfect. Why would I even bother sitting in trade channels for hours looking for a mod when I can simply walk up to the merchant and buy the perfect stat mod? We need a crafter or trader for perfect mods but not to the point where it makes all other lower grade mods pointless. |
Quote:
| If you introduce a trader that sells perfect mods to anyone with the gold (there is too much gold floating around in GW as it is) there will be no need for non perfect mods. You need some kind of limiting tool for the merchant or crafter. |
2 - Traders are limited by how much they currently have in stock, crafters really have no limit.
Quote:
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The best basis for this is only being able to craft mods you have unlocked on your account. It is the perfect solution to keep the perfect mods out of the hands of new GW players and make them readily available to casual players. Since the mods are available at a crafter to put into your weapon the price gouging would stop and less demand for the mods is created. That will also lower the price. New GW players would be able to pick these mods up for themselves within a short amount of time without just giving them the very best from the get go. |
Most of the code needed for an upgrade trader already exists in the form of the other traders, all ANET needs to do is copy the code over and change which items it refers to. Therefore the upgrade trader is much less work on ANETs part. So why would we expect them to do more work, when this solution seem accecptable by most people reading this thread ?
Quote:
| The main reason this is needed is because you don't just need one 30hp mod you need about 10 for all of your weapons. My war alone is using 9 different weapons. Lets not mention my monk, ranger, necro, mes, another ranger, and ele. |
Quote:
| Making it available to only customized weapons will prevent the creation of a 100k+ weapon to sell to other players. |
ShadowStorm
/signed
I was online looking for a sword pommel of enchanting 20% the other day and had 3 people pm me with prices between 125K and 150K and they were serious. I told them the go screw themselves, went on the GWG Auction site and ended up getting one for 55K, I think.
I was online looking for a sword pommel of enchanting 20% the other day and had 3 people pm me with prices between 125K and 150K and they were serious. I told them the go screw themselves, went on the GWG Auction site and ended up getting one for 55K, I think.
Hell Raiser
I don't think the trader should be limited to perfect mods alone, because if someone cannot afford the perfect mods they settle for near perfect and try to buy one. For example when sup absorbtion was 100k alot of people settled for major wich was only a couple plat and they were able to buy it off the trader. Some of you are saying the point of the Mod trader would be to eliminate increase in prices and wasted time looking for a mod, but if you are saying the trader should only offer perfect mods you are not entirely rid of the search for mods for the simple reason that people who can't afford the perfect mods have to settle for near perfect therefor having to search for the person selling and negotiate a price. Even with the perfect mods people are still going to spend time looking to buy them off people for a lower price and the only thing a trader would be doing is giving the current market value, the only way anyone is going to buy from the trader is if it has near perfect items that are cheap and not worth the time searching for.
As for a green trader I say no, too many traders will ruin the market and nobody will farm greens anymore (similar to the rune traders) because nobody will buy them because they are either
1) at the trader for cheap
2) already have them
3) have perfect mods/weapons
4) dislike the green weapon market and wish it was never added
With a green trader I'd think we would be seeing alot of 1 and with a mod trader we will be seeing alot of 3 and I already see alot of 2 and 4
overall I think adding a mod trader would be fine but a green trader is just taking it too far, maybe a crafter for the cheap greens.
Hell
As for a green trader I say no, too many traders will ruin the market and nobody will farm greens anymore (similar to the rune traders) because nobody will buy them because they are either
1) at the trader for cheap
2) already have them
3) have perfect mods/weapons
4) dislike the green weapon market and wish it was never added
With a green trader I'd think we would be seeing alot of 1 and with a mod trader we will be seeing alot of 3 and I already see alot of 2 and 4
overall I think adding a mod trader would be fine but a green trader is just taking it too far, maybe a crafter for the cheap greens.
Hell
EternalTempest
In the same interview about farming (and why they allow it) they talked about this and why they don't add them....
Me on the other hand
/signed to mod trader
On the flip side someone mentioned that factions is going to flood you with good weapons with good mods.
Me on the other hand
/signed to mod trader
On the flip side someone mentioned that factions is going to flood you with good weapons with good mods.
ArianeB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
In the same interview about farming (and why they allow it) they talked about this and why they don't add them....
|
Basic mods, are dang near impossible to get because there is not enough profit for sellers to keep basic mods in storage.
Popular perfect mods, are being sold at rediculously high prices, using tactics that prey on the ignorant, and would be illegal in the real world.
Mod venders would not kill the open market for weapons, nor would doubling the variety of weapons available via collectors or weapons crafters. People will still prefer gold over blue, and rare and exotic designs over common designs found in crafter and collector wares. Thus the market will continue to thrive even with weapon mod traders.
I do not see any logic in not adding them, and apparently based on this thread its near unianimous among players as well.
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EternalTempest
In the same interview about farming (and why they allow it) they talked about this and why they don't add them....
|
Quote:
|
Me on the other hand /signed to mod trader On the flip side someone mentioned that factions is going to flood you with good weapons with good mods. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
As for a green trader I say no, too many traders will ruin the market and nobody will farm greens anymore (similar to the rune traders)
|
Quote:
|
because nobody will buy them because they are either 1) at the trader for cheap 2) already have them 3) have perfect mods/weapons 4) dislike the green weapon market and wish it was never added |
2 - Is already a reason why people wont buy them.
3 - Yes, If a green is more expensive than prefect skin + weapon mods, demand for it will fall off. Then the green trader's supply and demand code will drop the price of the green weapon till people buy it again (or it bottoms out). This will happen to green prices with the addition of an upgrade trader alone, unless people price-gouge
4 - Well, they wont buy greens now.
Quote:
| With a green trader I'd think we would be seeing alot of 1 and with a mod trader we will be seeing alot of 3 and I already see alot of 2 and 4 |
Quote:
| overall I think adding a mod trader would be fine but a green trader is just taking it too far, maybe a crafter for the cheap greens. |
If you add a green crafter, then you make it so that those greens will always be worthless unless ANET changes the price of them.
twicky_kid
Factions IS going to flood the game the first week or 2 just like c1 did. Until an area is heavly farmed by many people it will take a while for the drops to get reduced.
bilateralrope
If drops decrease if more people farm the area (All I've seen is rumors that no-one has tried to invesigate, so I dont believe it) then what you are talking about it a tempoary problem. Which can be solved by simply waiting for things to calm down before introducing the upgrade trader.
twicky_kid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
If drops decrease if more people farm the area (All I've seen is rumors that no-one has tried to invesigate, so I dont believe it) then what you are talking about it a tempoary problem. Which can be solved by simply waiting for things to calm down before introducing the upgrade trader.
|
Since the griffon nerf I've found a spot that had been previously nerfed to hell and back. Since the nerf stick hit just about everywhere the drops are better than the other places again. The first few days everything dropped 1 item or gold pile. A week later a group of 6 will drop 4 items.
I know its not just the area when I farm the same monster in a different area the drops are still the same ratio. Only about 2/3 of my kills on that monster drop anything.
Anet can also nerf the drops for everyone overall like other places have been done.
Prefectus
/signed /signed /signed /signed /signed /signed
we do need this very much 100k+ for 30 sword mod lol yeah right prices need to be able to be in check
we do need this very much 100k+ for 30 sword mod lol yeah right prices need to be able to be in check
Evilsod
No way in hell to a green merchant. Everyone on GW knows where to find the greens, if you want it go get it.
Mods are just ridiculously hard to get, if you are lucky enough to find a perfect modded weapon, you then have the joys of getting iron ingots from the salvage.
Icy Axe of Fortitude, +30 health. Salvaged the Icy Haft.
Axe of Fortitude, +30 health. Salvaged 10 lousy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ingots!
Until the prices are sorted out i'm sticking with Victos Blade for sword, even if i do dislike the Vampiric.
/signed
Mods are just ridiculously hard to get, if you are lucky enough to find a perfect modded weapon, you then have the joys of getting iron ingots from the salvage.
Icy Axe of Fortitude, +30 health. Salvaged the Icy Haft.
Axe of Fortitude, +30 health. Salvaged 10 lousy RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ingots!
Until the prices are sorted out i'm sticking with Victos Blade for sword, even if i do dislike the Vampiric.
/signed
Dash Logan
signed on the mod trader, this game needs it
devils wraths
the best way for a green trader to work is put him in but you carnt buy from him. it would be a great idea to do soemthign like that becasue then you can sell your greens that are crap and no one buys. its not gonna cause a problem because you carnt buy them from him. i mean anyhtign is better than 35g.
Shut Your Mouth
OK well I guess I'm in the minority here but my opinion on Paying 100k+ for anything inb this game is just pure rediculous. That's your fault if you do. LA Bot farmer/traders would'nt have the control they do if ppl stop paying the stupid prices for thing's.
Making a NPC trader for mods:
Good for the casual gamer
Good for the player that want's to have every perfect weapon there is(until he/she actually find's one and says "dang traders now I can't charge 100k for this")
Good for ppl that don't like to work for anything/rewards
As for Green Items well they are what they are; Cant be salvaged or modded.
and the prices on some of those greens have went from nothing to something based on New builds and Anet's ability to Nerf.
This game would be nothing more than a console Game if you make that hard to find items available to everyone at basement prices. And remember the day's of Sup Absorption 100k the same would be true for Mod's that are Rare( Notice the use of the word Rare )
The economy is fine the way it is, dynamic. I refer to it as a controlled Riot.
and please all the info needed for current prices for each item is a click away. Excellent knowledge bases and Forums such as Guru are available to all players of the game. Famous word's of a judge right before he puts you in jail "ignorance is not an excuse"! All the info is there for you. Take the time to gather the fact's before making a decision.
I am not a player who generally Buy's or sells anything in LA. Most of my item's go to my Guild members or the trader. Unless it is something I can use or may use in the future!
/not signed
Making a NPC trader for mods:
Good for the casual gamer
Good for the player that want's to have every perfect weapon there is(until he/she actually find's one and says "dang traders now I can't charge 100k for this")
Good for ppl that don't like to work for anything/rewards
As for Green Items well they are what they are; Cant be salvaged or modded.
and the prices on some of those greens have went from nothing to something based on New builds and Anet's ability to Nerf.
This game would be nothing more than a console Game if you make that hard to find items available to everyone at basement prices. And remember the day's of Sup Absorption 100k the same would be true for Mod's that are Rare( Notice the use of the word Rare )
The economy is fine the way it is, dynamic. I refer to it as a controlled Riot.
and please all the info needed for current prices for each item is a click away. Excellent knowledge bases and Forums such as Guru are available to all players of the game. Famous word's of a judge right before he puts you in jail "ignorance is not an excuse"! All the info is there for you. Take the time to gather the fact's before making a decision.
I am not a player who generally Buy's or sells anything in LA. Most of my item's go to my Guild members or the trader. Unless it is something I can use or may use in the future!
/not signed
Freeze_XJ
Guys, after following this thread for a while, i dont see the threat in high prices, as long as they stay consistent. i have spent most of the game with a simple bow (max, 10/8 and Hp+27) and never had trouble with it. Now i have a perfect one i dont kill much more, and i'm not exactly superior to those without one...
The perfect mods are only for really good weapons in my opinion... If every L20 or below can have perfect stuff, what's worth saving for then? If some mods go really pricy, that means there still is something to look forward to, thus keeping you to enjoy the game longer...
The perfect mods are only for really good weapons in my opinion... If every L20 or below can have perfect stuff, what's worth saving for then? If some mods go really pricy, that means there still is something to look forward to, thus keeping you to enjoy the game longer...
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
No way in hell to a green merchant. Everyone on GW knows where to find the greens, if you want it go get it.
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