With the skill updates alot has changed
- Without Death Magic, you can control no more than two undead servants. For every two ranks of Death Magic, you can control one additional undead servant.
- Verata's Sacrifice: decreased Enchantment duration to 5..10 seconds; increased recharge time to 60 seconds; skill now instantly recharges if you have 3 or fewer undead servants; this skill now only affects undead servants you control.
- Blood of the Master: decreased Energy cost to 5; decreased recharge time to 2 seconds; decreased sacrifice to 5%; this skill now sacs 2% more Health per creature healed.
- Animate Bone Minions: decreased Energy cost to 15..
This is from ( http://guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/ )
A total of 10 minions, and a 60 second recharge on verata's sacrifice, it just got harder being a mm.
And with max number of minions out you take 25% health sacrifice. Will need a self heal or have the monk focusing on you alot more.
Will MM's still be good in fractions?
Gerrard Casashen
Samueldg
veritas is pretty much useless for most runs we normally do now ( ref topk, oro is done for other reasons)
what does work since echoing veritas gives you 20 seconds of regen but you still have 60 seconds of recharge.
glyph of renewal is about as ineffective as echoing it the only thing Ive been able to do to keep minis up for any decent length is n/mo and botm spam....
using breeze and mending to get full 10 pips health regen you can effectively spam botm to bring a group of minis to another area.. BUT your still combatting not only the monsters but also some serious degen..
whatever anet was thinking about more farm nerfs they achieved it..
I keep hearing " anet has nothing against farming" but I guess thats falling on my deaf ears much like people continually telling them " plz stop nerfing farming"
what does work since echoing veritas gives you 20 seconds of regen but you still have 60 seconds of recharge.
glyph of renewal is about as ineffective as echoing it the only thing Ive been able to do to keep minis up for any decent length is n/mo and botm spam....
using breeze and mending to get full 10 pips health regen you can effectively spam botm to bring a group of minis to another area.. BUT your still combatting not only the monsters but also some serious degen..
whatever anet was thinking about more farm nerfs they achieved it..
I keep hearing " anet has nothing against farming" but I guess thats falling on my deaf ears much like people continually telling them " plz stop nerfing farming"
Samueldg
all I can say is they had better make some seriously tough golems..
or death magic is gonna be useless....
hope everyone has SS capped...
or death magic is gonna be useless....
hope everyone has SS capped...
Veron
Well this completely bites. My absolute favorite thing about being a Necro was because I could control a huge army and kill things. This nerf completely ruined one of the most fun aspects of being a Necromancer.
kaldak
oddly enough if you're only have a Flesh Golem you'll be able to keep V Sac up all the time...thats about the only redeeming thing i see coming out of this.
has any attribute ever been this firmly smacked down in a nerf before?
has any attribute ever been this firmly smacked down in a nerf before?
sigried
but this so sucks im so unhappy about this desicion they make the mm copletly nerfed no point in using one.
Karmaniac
As far as I can tell the changes are directed so that instead of maintaining a constant huge army the position has shifted to constantly raise new minions instead of healing them and generally keeping them alive. Energywise the outcome will probably be the same. Dunno, which minion dies when you exceed your maximum? The one with lowest health? Anyways there's a fine line between balancing and making something completely useless. Completely useless? I don't know but the change was IMO too sudden and too drastic and we're all a bit baffled here but I firmly believe we can get over it.
Outside the topic: SS is probably the next one to get the stick.
Outside the topic: SS is probably the next one to get the stick.
kaldak
well, bone minions are the only ones that got the energy discount, and they were never terribly effective fighters to begin with. I agree that they seem to want us to shift to short term minions, but without some sort of boost to horrors and fiends (like an energy reduction) this update seems to have crippled the MM from one of the most powerful builds (at least in PvE) to a moderate damage dealer without the control of a direct spell caster
Bob Whills
Dare i say that mm's will be a fraction as good as they were before. Like say 1/2 or 1/3 i know ive had over 20 before and probably close 30 as well say after certain fights in sf. One thing to be said about anet is when the pull out the nerf bar they dont hold anything back.
However veritas sac is still feasable with say glyph of renewal. Also this might persuade people to allow more than one mm in a group depending on the area. Still
However veritas sac is still feasable with say glyph of renewal. Also this might persuade people to allow more than one mm in a group depending on the area. Still
ShadowStorm
Even if you spam Glyph of Renewal though, you can only keep Verata's Sacrifice up 5/8 of the time. (10 seconds of VS, with 6 seconds of down time for casting and recharging) 5/8 of the time isn't good enough to keep an minion army up. Hell, the way it was before using Serpent's Quickness to keep Verata's Sacrifice up 10/11 of the time was barely enough. (20 seconds of Verata's Sacrifice, 2 seconds of casting time.)
The way it is now, if you want to keep your minions up, you're going to have to spam both Glyph of Renewal for Verata's Sacrifice and Blood of the Master too. That's a 25% sacrifice from BotM every 2 seconds and 17% from Verata's every 16 seconds. That's more than 10 pips of degen. Ouch.
The days of maintaining an army are over. Now, you won't have control of more than 3 minions for any extended amount of time. Sorry, but the Nerfbat hit way too hard this time for it to be any other way.
The way it is now, if you want to keep your minions up, you're going to have to spam both Glyph of Renewal for Verata's Sacrifice and Blood of the Master too. That's a 25% sacrifice from BotM every 2 seconds and 17% from Verata's every 16 seconds. That's more than 10 pips of degen. Ouch.
The days of maintaining an army are over. Now, you won't have control of more than 3 minions for any extended amount of time. Sorry, but the Nerfbat hit way too hard this time for it to be any other way.
ROASTBEEP
I guess this means spamming Minions and Wells of Suffering?
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmaniac
Outside the topic: SS is probably the next one to get the stick.
SS did get the stick by Holding of items in hand. like Book tricks and others do not work. I have gone through a rough time to get my self a team just because an MM could always outpower me, now, a Nuker + An MM do a good job, try this with new mission, the balanced you are, the more better things you will achieve. MMs do the work, in terms of dishing out decent damage at this point, + tanking and keeping others safe while others create corpses for them. Unless you wanted to be a One man army, thats a whole different case.
Regardz
An Elementalist.
Regardz
An Elementalist.
CKaz
I get MM needed some tweaks but they made Verata Sac, arguably a bit overpowerful initially, practically unusable IMO (unless you keep your minions at 3? 
)
I think lately the power of the Necro was getting out of hand but wow I thought SS would get a nerf before MM got bombed (and I dont find the equipment trick as the only place SS is effective).
I think more skills will now get more use, I think some limits are a good idea (10 at 16 DM tho? hmm). But wow they abolished Veratas Sac...
)I think lately the power of the Necro was getting out of hand but wow I thought SS would get a nerf before MM got bombed (and I dont find the equipment trick as the only place SS is effective).
I think more skills will now get more use, I think some limits are a good idea (10 at 16 DM tho? hmm). But wow they abolished Veratas Sac...
bobrath
Sure they "abolished Veratas Sac"... but didn't they also just boost the heck out of BoTM?
Ellena
yeah. botm is great. it's a real life burner. I dont' ahve a golem and I knwo this will be an unpopular view, but I actually think I may ENJOY playign a minion necro more with the new version. ( I do think that what they did to veratas stinks.. IMO they should have toned ti down a little, nto obliterated it. I dotn even carry it on my minionmancer atm. :P
Fargin Scotchsman
wut i wanna know is, is it true that they nerfed mm to balance the mm to ritualist thing? if thats true, its completely useless. aparently, the reason is because the ritualist summons cant move, so the decided that since necro summons cud move, they decreased minion count. yet, the ritualist summons 1. dont degen 2. can do lots of dmg 3. dun have to be heald and 4. dont need a body. however, necro things need bodies, degen etc. so, wtf is anet thinking if the wanted to balance ritualist and necro?!?!
Xpl0iter
Farign, do you remember the time when Eles got the *shaft* just so anet could come around solo farming done by MONKS?
And that happened when AI got updated, so lets sit back tight with eles, and enjoy the ride. Me and you are in same boat now. Unless you wish to coop with what has happened, you could consider my current post as a flaming post. Otherwise, i would suggest you to pay attention to the actual point behind my post, and that is, LIVE with this nerf, and come up with something new, just like every one else does.
Regardz
An Elementalist
And that happened when AI got updated, so lets sit back tight with eles, and enjoy the ride. Me and you are in same boat now. Unless you wish to coop with what has happened, you could consider my current post as a flaming post. Otherwise, i would suggest you to pay attention to the actual point behind my post, and that is, LIVE with this nerf, and come up with something new, just like every one else does.
Regardz
An Elementalist
nebuchanezzar
A-Net seems to be aiming at the necro bombs factory IMO. Notice that Death Nova can't in any way hurt your team now. They seem to be promoting the disposable resourch idea behind the Nova - Taste builds.
Personally very unhappy with the situation but oh well. Ill keep playing and Ill probably try making a good MM sometime but ... Ill sure miss the days of getting compliments of Nice Army!! =]
Some interesting questions..what about when I raise the 11th minion? Do the elite golems leave a corpse now if I raise another while its still alive?
Personally very unhappy with the situation but oh well. Ill keep playing and Ill probably try making a good MM sometime but ... Ill sure miss the days of getting compliments of Nice Army!! =]
Some interesting questions..what about when I raise the 11th minion? Do the elite golems leave a corpse now if I raise another while its still alive?
Xpl0iter
People used to compliment me for doing a damage not through a visible army, but through the hp decrease of their bars in my ELE times. Who would not appreciate a good 10 to 15 foe dying at same time in less than 30 sec? Any ele could pull that before AI nerf.
Thats all i gotta say to you for now.
Regardz
Thats all i gotta say to you for now.
Regardz
Lint
Glyph Of Renewal FTW!
skreet preacha
no, they didnt boost BoTM, imho. and i'm not sure what this 10 cap thing is, i get up to 15-20 minions since the nerf. i heard it maybe a cap on the "type" of minion u use, since i use a mix of fiends and minions. but now, how much health you sac for BoTM is directly tied to how many minions you have, so yeah, its cool to spam if u have like 10 or under, but once u get around 15 minions and above, you sac ALOT of health for BoTM, too much to effectively be trying to spam. :-P
NinjaKai
Running is pretty much impossible in Cantha. Only real way is to fight your way through.
B Ephekt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpl0iter
People used to compliment me for doing a damage not through a visible army, but through the hp decrease of their bars in my ELE times. Who would not appreciate a good 10 to 15 foe dying at same time in less than 30 sec? Any ele could pull that before AI nerf.
Thats all i gotta say to you for now.
Regardz Why are you posting this crap in a thread about MMs?
Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic.
Thats all i gotta say to you for now.
Regardz Why are you posting this crap in a thread about MMs?
Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic.
suiraCLAW
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreet preacha
no, they didnt boost BoTM, imho. and i'm not sure what this 10 cap thing is, i get up to 15-20 minions since the nerf. i heard it maybe a cap on the "type" of minion u use, since i use a mix of fiends and minions. but now, how much health you sac for BoTM is directly tied to how many minions you have, so yeah, its cool to spam if u have like 10 or under, but once u get around 15 minions and above, you sac ALOT of health for BoTM, too much to effectively be trying to spam. :-P
Give us a screen of those 15-20 minions pls... (because it should be impossible)
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
Why are you posting this crap in a thread about MMs?
Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic. A crap ? it seems more like GET ON YOUR FEET AND STOP CRYING enchantment.
No, AI nerf is a term used by many to call the AI update, Just like a cap on MM is considered a NERF.
Here you go: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf&r=f
1. nerf 198 up, 12 down
To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.
Carrying out a huge army and deal every thing mostly on a solo basis is *NOT* realistic from any side as well. And No, i had given an example of the old times which is quite similar to what you have Now.
And why am i on this forum? I never found my self reading any where that other professions are not allowed over this forum. Scroll back, you will find a couple of others who say similar thing to what i have said. Guess you need to check the other threads as well.
Also, they didn't "nerf" the enemy AI; they improved it to a level it should've always been at. Enemies shouldn't be stupid enough to sit there and die due to AOE damage, it's just not realistic. A crap ? it seems more like GET ON YOUR FEET AND STOP CRYING enchantment.
No, AI nerf is a term used by many to call the AI update, Just like a cap on MM is considered a NERF.
Here you go: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf&r=f
1. nerf 198 up, 12 down
To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.
Carrying out a huge army and deal every thing mostly on a solo basis is *NOT* realistic from any side as well. And No, i had given an example of the old times which is quite similar to what you have Now.
And why am i on this forum? I never found my self reading any where that other professions are not allowed over this forum. Scroll back, you will find a couple of others who say similar thing to what i have said. Guess you need to check the other threads as well.
B Ephekt
Quote:
No, AI nerf is a term used by many to call the AI update, Just like a cap on MM is considered a NERF.
Quote:
Quote:
Naming something positive, doesnt neccessarily means it is going to effect postively. for professions that use meele damage, or projectiles like arrow ( in ur case, both as an MM ) for Rangers, warriors, its all fine, A foe can do this or that, but they cant go away. They wil get hit when they are hit |
And why am i on this forum? I never found my self reading any where that other professions are not allowed over this forum. Scroll back, you will find a couple of others who say similar thing to what i have said. Guess you need to check the other threads as well.
I didn’t ask you why you were on this forum… I asked why you kept posting elementalist crap in the MM thread. Sorry, but I didn’t see a context for any of your posts in here, aside the “well my ele used to be able to click a button and kill things, but now it's slightly harder” stuff. But this is way off topic, so I'll stop now...
Xpl0iter
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
|
Hence, to certain professions that deal with foes who STAND in certain area, it affects badly. Hence, considered a nerf. Quote:
Once he had few minnions, he nearly was unstoppable, just like you said too
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
I didn’t ask you why you were on this forum… I asked why you kept posting elementalist crap in the MM thread. Sorry, but I didn’t see a context for any of your posts in here, aside the “well my ele used to be able to click a button and kill things, but now it's slightly harder” stuff.
But this is way off topic, so I'll stop now...[/QUOTE] I would have agreed to you about the *elementalist crap* if there was any other example which could be used as a similie. In this case, for Guildwars, there has never been a bigger affect because of an Update than the one that specific profession had. I could consider MM cap next to the update eles considered in past. IF i had any example, that is, if necros have had seen any nerf in past which could hurt an attribute line by such extent, i would have used those examples. In conclusion, when you have no examples available in terms to relate this specific update with past within this profession's history, you have to broaden your views and look at the bigger picture to find similar situations, HENCE, the *ELE CRAP* was mentioned.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
I don’t know where you’re basing that it’s “not realistic” on, but I do agree that MMs were overpowered. (And yes, I do play MM pretty regularly.)
Overpowered where... people go on about how they needed to be toned down because they could solo areas. We're talking about areas full of shitty low levels enemies. The highest level area i've heard of soloing is Thirsty River, where the enemies are a similar level to us. How many times have you heard of the MM that solo'ed Hells Precipice and Abaddons Mouth? Or of course managed to yield an army powerful enough to overrun FoW and UW alone?
True after going with a B/P team in FoW who all went back to the forge, me (order necro) and the MM went and cleared the beach together, he summoned minions, i helped heal them. Is this overpowered? Not even close, an entire build devoted to clearing a place, its called FARMING when you do it solo. Are the solo Spider FoW warrior or solo Forest FoW ranger build overpowered simply because it could solo an area? So why the hell do you consider MMs to be overpowered for the same reason?
B Ephekt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
|
I don't think you read my post. I never mention soloing as a reason for MMs being overpowered, did I? gg
|
So why the hell do you consider MMs to be overpowered for the same reason?
I can’t answer that since you decided to put words in my mouth, but I did explain why I thought they were over powered. Honesty though, I could care less if you agree or why you don’t.
Samueldg
Ive gotten through quite a bit ( all the city stuff and the kurzick areas ) so far with a MM and 7 henchies...
with the mob spacing its not hard to carry 6+ fiends from one to the other.. .. im spending more time summoning instead of upkeep and with an earth ele henchie the wards do a good job protecting me while im spaming henchies.. yes veritas pretty much sucks at this point but you are still a powerful build with minions and fiends... ( with the cost of minions to 15 now you get a LOT of ene from them dieing and blocking for the fiends.. ref soulreaping 9-11.. thats a good thing) get cha
I think ANET is trying to make assassins actually wanted in parties. Or to bring us down to the warrior's level. You guys decide
unholy guardian
dude.. mm is still great. Almost everything drops a corpse is factions, without the cap you could probably have like 100 minions lol, espcially in these challange missions
Xenophon Ualtar
MM is still a viable stratagy. Just now it takes , dare I say it, more skill to do. IMHO it doesn't take great amounts ok skill to be able to raise 15+ minions and wander around killing stuff. However, it takes more skill and thought to get 10 minions and keep them alive.
xenoranger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon Ualtar
MM is still a viable stratagy. Just now it takes , dare I say it, more skill to do. IMHO it doesn't take great amounts ok skill to be able to raise 15+ minions and wander around killing stuff. However, it takes more skill and thought to get 10 minions and keep them alive.
No joke.
10 Minions (or 9 + 1) are difficult to keep alive. But if you can do it, it's sweet to see the numbers fly as they kill. Also, remember that you can use Golem as a tank. Golems are great for PvE, but in PvP and AB, becareful for people like me who just want to steal yours =p Nivrax Deathbringer
I don`t know, why most people think its a nerf (weakening). MM is now IMO even more powerful. Look at my Self-sufficent MM build to see what I`m talking about. With AotL + Blood Rnewal you can spam BotM (that heal ALL minions) and never run out of health. And if you REALLY want Flesh Golem, just take it and 9 Vamps. I`m replacing my minions rarely (they are nearly industractible with that healing), the only thing destroying them in large number are AoE spells and explosions from Afflicted.
xenoranger
I second...
Minions are much more powerful. They can't be zerged like before, but they do a great job on keeping them useful. Infact, Cantha has corpses all over the place. I have yet to see a location where you can't use minions. |
