Factions isnt a stand alone

I dont know why people argue that factions is its own game. If you pvp you HAVE to buy factions because some of us are no going to and as a result i am at a SEVRE handicad. I cant use anything new in pvp. I dont really care for the pve and dont feel i should have to pay for it. And moreover the few updates i can unlcok are not as good as factions gets it. I thought the point of GW was that equip wouldnt decide matchs, rather skill.tallent. I guess that only holds for us cause when it comes to GW they will create inequities so that they get paid.

..and what imbalances does Factions introduce that will put you at a severe disadvantage?

Chapter 1 people with factions will always have advantage over the single faction owner.

I think we have to w8 and see how the game goes...of course the current meta game will change a lot, some imbalances will be corrected over time i guess. A slight advantage will be cast on those who own both games, but imho i think buying factions is a fair trade considering the game has no mothly fee, they must maintain their servers and make some money after all. By comparison, if u think that WoW has around 4 mil subscribers paying 11 euro/month that comes to 44 mil euro/month...ffs ppl where in the name of God goes all that money? So, coming back to our little game, i think u should go for it. I already preordered mine.

PS. and think of all the events ANet has organized since the game has started and think of the world cup prize and all that...everything costs money in the end.

All that money made from WoW goes to Vivendi Universal.

But you are completely right. Say you buy Guild Wars, and then every month you just stick $15 into your bank account, pretending you are paying monthly for the game. If you had done that since the beginning, right now you would have enough to buy the next two-three Guild Wars chapters.

As far as I know, they said it IS a standalone game, but you would advantage from owning both. I can't see how this fails in this subject.

Syringe LMAO = that is a great point!

anyway - why is it am advantage/disadvantage as far as i know YOU CAN UNLOCK EVERY PROPHECIES SKILL IN FACTIONS? you might not be able to get a storm bow but you will be able to get a 15%over50 bow with a different skin.(for example)
you can unlock all elites/runes/upgrades with factions.
the armor are all the same max, the damage is the same, the mods are the same.
what inequities are you referring to?

the only advantage is taking a character over that has everything unlocked... BUT WITH TIME YOU CAN UNLOCK EVERYTHING IN FACTIONS.

Concidering they have literally said the game can operate as a stand-alone, and they detail what the differences are in their FAQ. Quite specificly and thoroughly.. I really don't see what the problem is.

Additionally, EndoftheSyringe is on a good point. WoW you pay a monthly fee.
Whilst GW already pays itself off in like 4 months of regular, enjoyed use. (making up for the cost of buying, average 10 to 12$ a month if there ever was a fee) so after that.. those months following are all just free goodness. I love the pricetag, I absolutely will have Factions and more than likely additional chapters.

I feel it is standalone for the following reason:

Buy C2 (only, no C1) then start playing Rit or Asa.
Or Play a core class and have the same amount of skill choices (mind you different) then a C1 only character.

From what I've seen it's "balanced" where c1 or c2 only do have distinct advantages that the other doesn't have but both can compete against each other.

This is like a CCG where you can operate on a single set but get more options if you buy more.

Is the OP suggesting that they should never release new skills?

I do not think you are correct. There are `core' skills that are shared between the two campaigns and then there are factions-only and prophecies-only skills.

Yes, people who own both games *will* have an advantage because they have access to more skills.

ju

Just go into your skills screen and sort them by Campaign. You will see which skills are "Core" -common to all chapters, and which are Campaign specific.

By this logic, in order to play magic, you need every single card in existence...

more skills means NOT more power, our skillbar still fit just 8 skills.

No, but it means more possible skillbar combinations. While I can't prove that you have more power with more combinations, I certainly can assume that to be correct.

At the very least, one is at an advantage if one has more options. At the very least, a person with both copies could duplicate your skillbar, provided you own a single copy of factions. However, someone with only a single copy of factions could not duplicate all of my skillbar combinations.

ju

if you have both games you will have access to more skills for the core professions than if you only had one of the two games. this everyone should agree with as it's been stated as fact by A-net.

this doesn't mean that from a PvP perspective, you are screwed if you only have Ch1 or only Ch2 it just means that your diverse experience is limited. this makes sense, you pay for one game, you profit the experience of trying one game worth of skills and armor mods. You can still learn to counter skills that you don't have though you may have to be a bit more creative in doing so.

with a lvl 20 cap and only 8skills in the skill bar having a good understanding of how to use the skills you do have and the proper experience in working with your team and your opponents will always be more important than having the greatest # of skills. So Anet's concept of skill not quantity remains.

on that note however it is really rediculous to complain about not having skills because you didn't buy the second game. You pay for what you get, you want more, you pay more, this makes pretty good sense to me. Without overly restricting those that only own one game you can't expect Anet to offer no incentive or rewards for buying two games can you? as much as we all love to get everything for free...it just doesn't make any logical sense now does it?

That was their intended goal.

Having choices is always a good thing, but I can't see where there is a literal indisputable advantage to having more skills. It's what you do with what you have--the skill you use, not the skills you use--that determines how well you do. Now, thinking in a military sense, if you have several different kinds of artillery, you certainly have more choices, and perhaps that can equate to a form of tactical "advantage" on a certain level of thinking. Unquestionably, you have more choices with Prophecies and Factions than with either game alone. But with balanced skills across both games, with core skills available to you via a stand-alone purchase of Factions versus purchase of both Prophecies and Factions, I really think them term isn't "advantage" so much as "a broader range of choices." I guarantee you there will be players who have one or the other who do very well indeed.

And certainly, by any measure of thinking, Factions is a stand-alone product.

Hmm, Gaile, you sure do have a way with words.

Just to add more fuel to the fire...

My warrior is currently @ the Iron Mines of Moladune. I've done every quest up to that point and every mission/bonus up to that point.

The skillset I use is 90% the same skillset I created back in the beginning.

Does someone who has all warrior skills unlocked have an advantage over me? You bet!

Does that mean they're superior to me? No way. If it wasn't working, I wouldn't still be using it.

Severe disadvantage? Not in the least, no matter what area of Factions you look at.

The thing that concerns me is when the metagame starts shifting to specific builds that will need certain skills in factions. I'm not overly concerned about which skills has a clear advantage over others but when you start looking for pugs without certain faction skills, you'll be left out. I guess we'll have to give it a few months to see how the prophesies-only owners play out...

I think deep down the OP is driving at people who don't own both chapters aren't going to any longer be able to make the "cookie cutter" builds someone else figured out. And we all know new cookie cutter builds are going to pop up from the "combined" chapters. This is where some will fall behind in the "I can be anything" dept. Now to keep up you "must" own both copies or you'll just become a hasbeen and nobody will want you in the new builds/groups that will form.

That already occured even before Factions.

why are you " SEVRE handicad?"

You don't pay, you don't get new thing.. that seem resonable.

I have not look at it too closely, but I don't think Faction people will get better stuff, or that they have a extra advantage over you.

Prophcy only: Same as before
Faction only: should be on equal footing with those of Prophcy only.
Both: "When the power combin!" Should be somewhat better in offering more (but not more powerful) chocies.

i compare GW to Magic the gathering or any other card game. its cool that you have the original cards, but the company makes new editions and players with mixed cards from all editions will have an advantage than players who only bought the original booster.

the handicap he's talking bout is people who bought both prophecies and factions will be more versatile and have more skill options along with 2 new profs.

the gap is only gonna increase once GW releases other "expansions".

Yes... well I'll make my post very concise,
Pay Anet their dues for the past 1 year of excellent gaming, or continue to cry about the "imbas" and "overpowered" complaints.

It's only 50 bucks. You don't even need a job to pay for that.

Thank you.

The only "severe disadvantage" is that you wont be able to join the new cookie cutter builds, and thats nothing ANet can do anything about, unless they had some sort of mind control to force the PLAYERS(yes thats right, the players are excluding you not anet) to accept you. Your current skils dont get powered down just because you dont own factions.

So people should buy the expansions if they feel they have to, there is no debate. Seriously, HOW MUCH do people expect from anet for their small initial purchase (y'know, more than perfect uptime, constant game updates/patches, imbedded PR in the communities, world championships, etc)? do they realise their playing a pioneering game?

*bangs head off desk*

prohpchy has changed

IE i no longer can put a sunderning mod on PVP chars

the meta game will certainly change as a result and a lot of skills are going to be utilized but since i dont feel like paying 50$ i cant play the old game.

Either a i will crack and buy the game or i will just quit and start giving away everything ihave


a good option would be for ANET to let pvp chars use the new skills but not the new areas


i expect ANET not to hurt my ability to play HA, GvG, etc. Which they have since i dont have factions. New spams will be LFG Rank 7+ (no Rank 6) must have factions PM ME

and little ol me caught the eyes of anet

Taken your analogy further A general is deciding position of units (IE who to move foward) and he has Platoon A and Platoon B. Now platoon A has the extra shells but Platoon B doesnt. Why would General take Platoon B? this parrells HA and GvG. A lot of new builds are going to require the new skills becaus there are some good skills there. The more choices you have that the other person does the adavantage is gained because you have the ability to do something that they dont. Look to business for a parellel the biz person that has more information is AWLAYS as at an advantage. The player that has more choices is ALWAYS at an advanatage. Factions is a stand alone in that you can get backwards stuff but prophicies no longer is. I really only care about pvp i have grown bored of pve so if there was an option for me to get the new stuff for my pvp chars i would be up for it. I guess i should have reworded the title to Prohicies is not stand alone. Not factions is not stand alone. I have already seen this starting to happen with certain builds requiring skills that i dont have and therefore an unable to play.

The one thing i do like about GW is the ability of you and other dev people to communicate witht he players. As this is a dircet evidence that you hear me. Now weather you respect me/my view./ or my cocerns is entirely diff issue.


SORRY FOR SPELLING... I CANT SPELL

thats what i am getting at. I dont care for Cantha i only want to PVP. Is it too much to ask for letting us at least have it in pvp chars.



mainly skills that i cant utilze that others can. For example someone told me there is a nother skill a lot like I. HEx. That would be great for pvp as another form of energy mgmt that removes an offensive advanatge of ther other team. Also i can use sundering on pvp chars. Any "good" skill in factions puts me at a disadvantage because i cant use and therefore and less likely to get in good groups that req the new skills


I already paid them their duys by paying 80 for CE. However i wanna PvP and i am at a disadvantage now. How bout you give me 50$ for the game than if you dont even need a job for it?



i think i have finally answered alll....please keep the comments coming. I will try to respond to the best of my ability.

I'm kinda mixed on the whole stand alone thing. That is, I was hoping new chapters would have been built and priced as expansions, not stand alones.

on a side not another argument on this same issue has developed in the dev tracker area