Pretty simple really, just what it says in the subject. Mesmers are set up (generally) so that dom is anti-caster and illusion is anti-war/ranger (and now assassin too). I've thought before that it's weird empathy is in dom, and I've just thought it again since I've been trying to make a decent anti-assassin build.
It's just frustrating having to spread my attributes more just to use this spell when everything else I will need is in illusion/inspiration, so I'm just ranting really!
Does anyone else wonder what Empathy is doing in the domination line?
Dave_Spanners
Dragannia
No attribute is set to a particular counter. Realistically, IMO Clumsiness and Ineptitude should be under Domination, but I can understand why Ineptitude is Illusion (since it sorta Blinds them, and you can't really explain how it Blinds them if it's under Domination). Empathy punishes someone for doing something- it belongs in Domination.
Avarre
Empathy dominates the opposing mind, creating an empathic link to them, reflecting the pain that they deal. It directly locks the hex into the enemy body, causing them to take damage when they try to cause it.
Illusion, on the other hand, muddles their mind and makes them err, strike themselves, see phantoms. Illusion also makes the enemy feel the emotional pain that they cause, resulting in SV, remorse, etc.
Illusion, on the other hand, muddles their mind and makes them err, strike themselves, see phantoms. Illusion also makes the enemy feel the emotional pain that they cause, resulting in SV, remorse, etc.
Eaimirth Etaivella
Domination hexes also tend to last longer than illusion; so in stating things that have not already been said this is the case for empathy.
Knight of Balthazer
empathy- understanding and entering into another's feelings.
To me I think it belongs in the Dom line.
To me I think it belongs in the Dom line.
Manda Panda
I think empathy in domination makes sense. However, I've always wondered why Spirit Shackles is inspiration
Maedhros
well, in a logical point, it does give energy often enough to the caster...inspiration is for gain on health or energy...
~Maedhros
~Maedhros
Apoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manda Panda
However, I've always wondered why Spirit Shackles is inspiration
Good question. Spirit Shackles is like Empathy, but you lose Energy instead.
I think it should really be a Dom. skill.
I think it should really be a Dom. skill.
NatalieD
Like others said, it's not that Domination = anticaster and Illusion = antiwarrior. Empathy is a Domination skill because it punishes the target for doing certain things, just like Backfire or Wastrel's Worry.
Spirit Shackles really does look more like a Domination skill... as does Signet of Humility... and Arcane Thievery seems more like Inspiration... well, whatever.
Spirit Shackles really does look more like a Domination skill... as does Signet of Humility... and Arcane Thievery seems more like Inspiration... well, whatever.
calamitykell
so shouldn't Ineptitude and Clumsiness be domination, then?
Avarre
Both of those create visages that make the enemy fumble. You aren't punishing the enemy, you're tricking them into hurting themselves.
Terra Xin
Strange though how mesmers can make you feel like your so clumsy you hurt yourself badly.
The idea behind sympathetic visage is much like spirit shackles and empathy...
This can get confusing...
The idea behind sympathetic visage is much like spirit shackles and empathy...
This can get confusing...
Avarre
SV - A visage is an image... and the foe sees one that he/she is sympathetic too. SV creates a continual illusion that causes a striking foe to see something they are sympathetic to. Example: Axe warrior is hitting mesmer. Mesmer uses SV. Warrior no longer sees enemy, but sees injured suffering woman. All adren and their will to fight is hampered because they feel sympathy and guilt towards what they struck.
It's illusion because you create it around yourself to fool foes.
Clumsiness : You create an illusion around the foe, either by editing their perception of weight, positioning, or whatever else, that causes them to badly stumble and injure themselves trying to attack.
It's illusion because you're creating an illusion to make the enemy hurt himself.
Spirit Shackles :
You're sapping energy whenever the foe tries to attack by opening a channel in their energy. Either by linking it to the Id of the foe, or by barbing it into the energy 'area' of the foe, the hex leeches power out for each attack attempt.
It's inspiration because it preys on energy without directly injuring or effecting the enemy actions, like domination would. It's not illusion because its a binding hex and not an alteration of perception.
Hope that helps a little..
It's illusion because you create it around yourself to fool foes.
Clumsiness : You create an illusion around the foe, either by editing their perception of weight, positioning, or whatever else, that causes them to badly stumble and injure themselves trying to attack.
It's illusion because you're creating an illusion to make the enemy hurt himself.
Spirit Shackles :
You're sapping energy whenever the foe tries to attack by opening a channel in their energy. Either by linking it to the Id of the foe, or by barbing it into the energy 'area' of the foe, the hex leeches power out for each attack attempt.
It's inspiration because it preys on energy without directly injuring or effecting the enemy actions, like domination would. It's not illusion because its a binding hex and not an alteration of perception.
Hope that helps a little..
Terra Xin
wooooooooooooooooow
I can't say anything else now... Avarre, you have me completely dumbfounded^^
I can't say anything else now... Avarre, you have me completely dumbfounded^^
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
It's inspiration because it preys on energy without directly injuring or effecting the enemy actions, like domination would.
Just like that other Inspiration skill, Signet of Weariness. 
Terra Xin
oh, question!
how does... most of those skills under inspiration magic aspire to that of being.... inspirational?
Is it self-inspiring?
how does... most of those skills under inspiration magic aspire to that of being.... inspirational?
Is it self-inspiring?
robrobrob
I like to think that I know mesmers since my main is one, but Avarre is and always will be the source of all knowledge mesmer. 
NatalieD
Avarre is only giving fluff justifications, which aren't terribly helpful and aren't what most of the posts in this thread seem to be about...
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieD
Quote:
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Just like that other Inspiration skill, Signet of Weariness.
Weariness rips energy away, whereas things like energy tap draw and magnify it to you. Shackles is inspiration because the hex is causing the enemy to lose energy, the enemy mesmer isn't forcing it. It's the question of spell attitude and aggression, which are much easier to understand if you can examine and explain spells in an RP sense. Inspiration spells are those that deal with the channeling of energy - into elemental shields, away from enemies to you, draining or gaining. Of all mesmer skill lines, it is the least aggressive, not one of the skills in insp cause damage. The soft manipulation, either by granting yourself energy (inspiring) or draining from enemies (discouraging their spirit) is what characterizes the skills. Domination on the other hand is the most aggressive, the energy draining skills found here are powered by using a spark of energy to ignite enemy energy pools, or by ripping it away. Again, its a question of attitude.
d3kst3r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
SV - A visage is an image... and the foe sees one that he/she is sympathetic too. SV creates a continual illusion that causes a striking foe to see something they are sympathetic to. Example: Axe warrior is hitting mesmer. Mesmer uses SV. Warrior no longer sees enemy, but sees injured suffering woman. All adren and their will to fight is hampered because they feel sympathy and guilt towards what they struck.
It's illusion because you create it around yourself to fool foes. Clumsiness : You create an illusion around the foe, either by editing their perception of weight, positioning, or whatever else, that causes them to badly stumble and injure themselves trying to attack. It's illusion because you're creating an illusion to make the enemy hurt himself. Spirit Shackles : You're sapping energy whenever the foe tries to attack by opening a channel in their energy. Either by linking it to the Id of the foe, or by barbing it into the energy 'area' of the foe, the hex leeches power out for each attack attempt. It's inspiration because it preys on energy without directly injuring or effecting the enemy actions, like domination would. It's not illusion because its a binding hex and not an alteration of perception. Hope that helps a little.. Spoken like a true mesmer. Me: Avarre is using Mass Confusion on Guildwarsguru! Me: Avarre is using Mass Confusion on Guildwarsguru! Me: Avarre is using Mass Confusion on Guildwarsguru! Me: I'm using Distract Shot on Avarre!
Avarre
I'm using Mantra of Resolve!
d3kst3r
d'oh! mesmers may have hardly any armor but their defense skills make up for it more than enough.
But back on topic. The way I look at mesmer attributes is Inspiration manipulates energy and Fast cast is self explanatory. Domination is more about hexes that deal in-direct damage and illusion is about hexes that deal more degen. Anything in between illusion and domination can be applied to both hence empathy or clumsiness. I mean the mesmer build is kind of unique to Guildwars as you can't really find anything else like it in any other RPG.
Terra Xin
And they're saying that the profecies contain the typical 6 core professions of any standard RPG game...
Mesmers Rock^^ shoot n loot
HMMM avarre id really like to hear your fancy complicated description fo the skill Distortion... Mayb you distort your positioning to the enemy causing them to believe you are where you arnt, and therefore they attack the wrong area, you loose energy because it takes skillt o maintain an illusion specially when someone is cutting thru it with a sword or axe? btw, Distortion = coolest skill ever vs wars when you have 16 illusiion, they are doomed
Avarre
Distortion is pretty simple.
It blurs your form by creating a blanket illusion around you, making attacks that seem like they would strike go through nothing but air. This is characterized by the purple whirling when you activate it... thats the illusion wrapping around you and displaying you as a blurred, shifting figure. Every time someone swings through the illusion, energy has to be used to repair the illusion and maintain its integrity.
What if...
I can make sense of most mesmer skills and the relationship between their name, their dependant skill line, and their effect. The only thing I'm having difficulty understanding is: how does distracting someone with diversion stop them from using a skill for a certain amount of time. If they're really distracted/diverted, shouldn't they stop attacking/moving all together as their thoughts are apparently directed elsewhere? Why does it only trigger on after an oppenent's action instead of taking on an entirely different function like adding on a percent of failure on an opponents skills, or lowering the effectiveness of skills/spells (lack of focus = lower spell effeciency)?
Cjlr
Quote:
Originally Posted by What if...
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It sorta makes sense, if you look at it the right way. By casting diversion, the mesmer (you) makes "target foes" focus not on the skills they use, but what they were doing before and after... That is to say, attacking and/or using other skills. Because they've diverted their attention away from the skill they just used. See?
