assasin (n.) greek - a person, usualy paid, that kills important figures; also see hunter,killer,ninja
well definition says it all.... we are suposed to kill important things.... not tank!
How to be a good Assassin!
lilnate22
romeo_longsword
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilnate22
assasin (n.) greek - a person, usualy paid, that kills important figures; also see hunter,killer,ninja
well definition says it all.... we are suposed to kill important things.... not tank! So can warriors, and they can tank better.
well definition says it all.... we are suposed to kill important things.... not tank! So can warriors, and they can tank better.
ProGamer777
No warrior that I've seen can outdamage an equal-level/skill/gear sin.
And that's the point. We're DPS, people, that's it.
And that's the point. We're DPS, people, that's it.
Tromador
What we need is a new ctrl-click thingy.
"Yukimi Ishisaki is assassinating afflicted mesmer."
*pop* deaths charge.
hackhackhack (lead/off/dual)
*pop* return/recall etc. Watch bleeding/poison/etc finish off target if not dead already.
ctrl-click
"Yukimi Ishisaki is assassinating afflicted monk."
rinse & repeat
What I'm saying is that the zin used correctly is SO deadly, the rest of the team should know not to bother with that mob
"Yukimi Ishisaki is assassinating afflicted mesmer."
*pop* deaths charge.
hackhackhack (lead/off/dual)
*pop* return/recall etc. Watch bleeding/poison/etc finish off target if not dead already.
ctrl-click
"Yukimi Ishisaki is assassinating afflicted monk."
rinse & repeat
What I'm saying is that the zin used correctly is SO deadly, the rest of the team should know not to bother with that mob
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProGamer777
And that's the point. We're DPS, people, that's it.
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Originally Posted by lilnate22
well definition says it all.... we are suposed to kill important things.... not tank!
I like this approach, lets not look at the skills, the mechanics behind the profession etc. Lets look at the definition of the name, this will tell us everything we need to know. Everyone knows monks are good for a solitary existence in a monastery and rangers are good for putting out forest fires.
Snowman
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
I like this approach, lets not look at the skills, the mechanics behind the profession etc. Lets look at the definition of the name, this will tell us everything we need to know.
Exactly why I didnt put any skill combinations in my OP, you can debate skill combinations and statistics all day long.. if you dont ACT like an assasin you will never be a good one.
If a nooby azn simply thought about his actions in battle, then the skills will come naturally. fallot
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Originally Posted by Snowman
Exactly why I didnt put any skill combinations in my OP, you can debate skill combinations and statistics all day long.. if you dont ACT like an assasin you will never be a good one.
If a nooby azn simply thought about his actions in battle, then the skills will come naturally. Goddamn. I was being sarcastic. The name of a profession means next to nothing.
Snowman
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Originally Posted by fallot
The name of a profession means next to nothing.
Huh?... of course it does! lol
Assasins, by their definition do lots of damage..fast.. then make a fast escape BECAUSE they are weak and low on protection... A GOOD assasin keeps this in mind at all times. There is no difference in the Guildwars Assasin, lots of damage, fast.. run away, fast!.. It means means everything! fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
Assasins, by their definition do lots of damage..fast.. then make a fast escape BECAUSE they are weak and low on protection... A GOOD assasin keeps this in mind at all times.
Assume that the elementalist class was called Assassin, would they then be able to do lots of damage fast and escape like you say ? What matters is the skills, the attributes and the armor level. Now the Assassin does have some good escape skills, but they happen to be freely available for any profession as they are not linked to the primary attribute. Additionally, Assassin spike is nothing special which once again doesn't seem to match the definition implied by the name.
Lets stick to the elementalist analogy, by definition they are supposed to be able to do huge bursts of elemental damage, in practice that is not even half true. A class is not defined by its name, but by what it can accomplish. Rangers can be defined by the Expertise attribute as the class that makes skills cost next to nothing. The elementalist can be defined by the skills Ether Prodigy and the energy storage primary attribute as energy machines. The monk is defined by the Divine Favor attribute as the healing profession etc etc. Their names are meaningless. Tromador
<Devil's Advocate>
Originally Posted by fallot
Quote: Lets stick to the elementalist analogy, by definition they are supposed to be able to do huge bursts of elemental damage, in practice that is not even half true.
Glyph of Renewal.
Meteor Shower Arcane Echo Meteor Shower GoR Meteor Shower Meteor Shower </Devil's Advocate> fallot
How about:
Glyph of Renewal. Meteor Shower. Everything runs away. I guess I shouldn't have said elemental damage, since that is one of the features of the class, it should just be damage. I was also speaking from a PvP perspective, but I guess I shouldn't have. Tromador
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
I was also speaking from a PvP perspective, but I guess I shouldn't have.
Heh... no problem - but it helps if you let us know your context
.From a PVP perspective you are absolutely right and no amount of meteor showers are going to be of use. I'll shut up now, however, as this discussion isn't supposed to be about Ele's. 
shdhwk
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Originally Posted by Snowman
So what makes a good Assassin?
Ive played this proffesion alot now and notice other Assassins dying alot!..and generally not being very good.. so I think there are some basics things Assassins should keep in mind to be a GOOD Assassin! :- ~ STAY ALIVE!!! - This is the most important thing to keep in mind, do not throw your life away! You mean you can't be effective DEAD...Damn...No wonder I can't level up...LOL First time guide writer I'm guessing...LOL lilnate22
this for all the idiots that use assasins as tanks....
last time i cheked rome didnt have 100,000-500,00 infantry made up of assasin running around..... but instead they had warriors! wow wut a coincidence... warriors are suposed to tank! not assasins! in todays world assasins are equivalent to snipers, the enmy hates em! and the allies love em. our job is to stay in the back.... wait for oppertunity and strike the "leader" type char. usualy being a monk or healer fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilnate22
last time i cheked rome didnt have 100,000-500,00 infantry made up of assasin running around..... but instead they had warriors! wow wut a coincidence... warriors are suposed to tank! not assasins!
in todays world assasins are equivalent to snipers, the enmy hates em! and the allies love em. our job is to stay in the back.... wait for oppertunity and strike the "leader" type char. usualy being a monk or healer Another comparison between an online game and real life. Spura
Heh fallot you know they have wet dreams of them "assassinating" monks. Reality of the situation is they aren't any better at it than a warrior. W/A is best attacker now. Use wand to charge adrenaline or hit enemy warriors. Then Deathly charge and unload adren spike.
fallot
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Originally Posted by Spura
Heh fallot you know they have wet dreams of them "assassinating" monks. Reality of the situation is they aren't any better at it than a warrior. W/A is best attacker now. Use wand to charge adrenaline or hit enemy warriors. Then Deathly charge and unload adren spike.
Wow, you just condensed what I've been trying to say for the last week or so into three lines. Genius!
Edit: This of course brings up the question, what do primary Assassins do ? Would anyone care to answer in a few short lines ? Not for the sake of argument or anything, I just want to know what other people think. Bropps85
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Edit: This of course brings up the question, what do primary Assassins do ? Would anyone care to answer in a few short lines ? Not for the sake of argument or anything, I just want to know what other people think.
Look cool?
Snowman
Quote:
Originally Posted by shdhwk
You mean you can't be effective DEAD...Damn...No wonder I can't level up...LOL
First time guide writer I'm guessing...LOL okay, so if its so obvious, why is it that so many assasin die repeatedly? What IS obvious is that most assasins feel that its more important to get their combos off than it is to stay alive. The point is, its MORE important to stay alive than it is to deal your damage. This may seem obvious to you (and thank you for the sarcasm) but clearly alot of new assasins dont realise this yet, and i have learnt that dealing your damage is less important than staying alive.
GranDeWun
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Originally Posted by fallot
This of course brings up the question, what do primary Assassins do ?
Presumably, high Critical Strikes gives them a chance, (but not a certainty), of inflicting really massive damage during one combo.
Talking about DPS and assassins is somewhat misleading - it is not average damage output that is important, it is the possible 'one-man spike' damage.
King Henry
Heh, you guys may think I'm weird for this...
I usually use Recall for my "in" spell, and Viper's Defense for my "out". So far it works pretty well. Cast Recall on a tank and then port to him while he's fighting. From there it's a short distance to the target. I run in, hack 'em up. and use viper's while I'm runnin' like a bat out of hell. SirShadowrunner
Well, the running Assassin trick is great in a PUG, but with all henchies it
don't work to well, if you disengage the enemy and back up the henchies do the same, which is what they are suppose to do, follow the leader. So I take a couple defensive/healing skills to keep me alive in the pack better, Shadow of refuge and Way of perfection, also have Watch yourself to, works good. fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry
I usually use Recall for my "in" spell, and Viper's Defense for my "out". So far it works pretty well. Cast Recall on a tank and then port to him while he's fighting. From there it's a short distance to the target. I run in, hack 'em up. and use viper's while I'm runnin' like a bat out of hell.
If you are not using any other elite, Aura of Displacement does this much better.
MysticPain
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranDeWun
Presumably, high Critical Strikes gives them a chance, (but not a certainty), of inflicting really massive damage during one combo.
Talking about DPS and assassins is somewhat misleading - it is not average damage output that is important, it is the possible 'one-man spike' damage. Agreed. Assassins who are primary are highly focused on the Critical Strikes attribute. If you guys paid attention to the R/A or A/R thread in the head start event you would understand this. Going back to that thread: R/A, if focusing on daggers, uses Expertise to make rediculously long combos and pull them off cheap and easy. A/R, if focusing on daggers, uses Critical Strikes to make shorter combos which do more/as much as the longer ones, and then get the hell out. The crits they accomplish mid combo regenerate their bar, which is their "expertise" in a way. Attacks such as the dual attack Critical Strikes can be made practically free with use of Zealous daggers and Critical Eye, which is a pretty basic combo for daggersins. Now, about all this W>A crap I've been hearing about: Shut up. I'm normally not this blunt on the forums, but seriously. Shut the hell up. They're different classes, people have had a full year to test out warriors, find out what works and what doesn't and perfect it to a certain extent. Assassins have had not NEARLY this much time, and DPS alone is not how you win a battle. I'm sorry, but it's not. Guild Wars is about two things: Teamwork, and Skills. Deeper in, the way skills work with eachother, but we're not going into that here. If you think DPS is so important, I have a little reccomendation for you. Go into PVP with your axe, sword, hammer, swaxe (<3 Ghostly Hero) or whatever the hell else you plan to use, lock onto an enemy and use no skills. I assure you that you won't get very far. Don't go around saying assassins and assassin primarys are better or worse than warriors. We are not warriors. I don't see you people picking sides if mesmers are better than elementalists, and I'm sure in most parts of this forum if someone picked one of those sides they would get instantly flamed and "shut up noob'd" right out. Just because two frickin' classes both do close range melee damage doesn't mean that they're similar or even able to be compared. God damn. I hope some of you really leave it alone now, if warriors are better melee fighters than assassins are. Warriors tank, assassins sneak. Think of it as Fighters and Rogues. Now, moving on. DPS measurements: Yes. Warriors appear to beat us here, but seriously, with the assassin's huge emphesis on critical blows and double strikes I really don't think DPS can be calculated with an assassin. Average DPS, perhaps, but it will never be the same. Eh, I could have sworn I read about how evade/block stances own sins in this thread. Perhaps they were edited out, deleted, non-existant, whatever. Regardless, evade/block stances will never save you against a good A/W. Wild Blow will leave you stanceless and damaged, and if they have assassin-based condition removal, bleeding. And if they're running Appointment In Damascus (<3), you're also missing an enchantment. Oh, and I get 4 of that energy back. fallot
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Originally Posted by MysticPain
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Quote: Originally Posted by MysticPain Don't go around saying assassins and assassin primarys are better or worse than warriors. We are not warriors. I don't see you people picking sides if mesmers are better than elementalists, and I'm sure in most parts of this forum if someone picked one of those sides they would get instantly flamed and "shut up noob'd" right out. Just because two frickin' classes both do close range melee damage doesn't mean that they're similar or even able to be compared. Why shouldn't they be compared ? People are of the opinion that Assassin's are geared for damage, so a comparison with the leading damage class of the game is natural.
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No you won't, considering I've tried it as a joke.|
Originally Posted by MysticPain
Yes. Warriors appear to beat us here, but seriously, with the assassin's huge emphesis on critical blows and double strikes I really don't think DPS can be calculated with an assassin. Average DPS, perhaps, but it will never be the same.
Why not ? A critical strike is just another number. Those numbers are not meant to show the superiority of the Warrior profession in dealing damage, that much is uncontested. They show that daggers are a potential source of reasonable DPS, were Assassins able to apply it. Nothing more.
Nobody is saying Assassins are better than Warriors. Just that Warriors are better damage dealers and have a better, faster spike. The options that the Assassins offer the game are valuable, but I fear that people dont realise what those are and instead focus on the unrealistic scenario of "assassinating" targets. I asked the question so I could understand how many people were of this opinion. If the point of an Assassin is a one-man spike, why are all of their spike options overshadowed by Eviscerate + Execitioner's ? I want this class to actually do what people want it to do, and what it is advertised as. That would require adding quite a bit more + damage to Assassin combos or providing them an IAS skill that they can effectively use. Nowhere is anyone saying that Assassins are worse than Warriors or vice versa. So dont post against something that isn't even happening.
floplag
you know, alot of you are giving advice thats great for PvP or upper levels PvE, but doesnt do much for the guys that dont have all the skills yet too, just a thought.. dont assume they have all of these as options.
that having been said, ill throw out a different opinion here in that if you are carrying more than 4 attacks skills, your not going to be very energy efficient or able to maintain them for very long. ive been pretty succesful so far using two leads, and off hand, and a dual, along with the rest of the slots in preps/enchantments/heals/defense every assasin should carry a self heal that is fairly spammable, and a defensive skill ... now you can do that and still have 2 sets of attacks, but i like using preps etc... for added damage in any event you shouldnt be tanking, you dont have the armor for it as always though ill say this, dont take this post, or anything posted on any forum as gospel, think for yourselves and create your own builds that work for you and your play style, rather than trying to conform to someone elses ideas
MysticPain
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Originally Posted by fallot
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Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by fallot Why not ? A critical strike is just another number. Those numbers are not meant to show the superiority of the Warrior profession in dealing damage, that much is uncontested. They show that daggers are a potential source of reasonable DPS, were Assassins able to apply it. Nothing more. Because a critical strike is a rolled number that has a large effect, and anything on a random roll such as this (espically one under 50%, although it's not far under it) cannot be considered "constant." And what the hell do you mean a "potential source of a reasonable DPS"? Your posts are so slanted toward warriors it's not even funny. Take a look at the DPS posted in your favor, the "reasonable" DPS is damned close to what warriors manage. I suppose they're a potential source of a reasonable DPS, too.
Quote: Originally Posted by fallot Nobody is saying Assassins are better than Warriors. Do you even read? My post wasn't about the people saying assassins are better than warriors. It was about the people saying warriors are better than assassins.
Quote: Originally Posted by fallot
I asked the question so I could understand how many people were of this opinion. If the point of an Assassin is a one-man spike, why are all of their spike options overshadowed by Eviscerate + Execitioner's ?
Because the class has been out a grand total of less than a month, and you're an idiot for thinking you've seen "all their spike options" in such a short time.
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Originally Posted by fallot
I want this class to actually do what people want it to do, and what it is advertised as.
Oh, okay. I forgot that Illusionary Weapondry mesmers are horrible, and so are the necromancers required for suiciding for many builds. God forbid a class be good/useful at/for something other than what it's shown to be. Oh, and I should probably go get rid of my smiting monk, since monks are advertised to smite undeads and not other players. Quote:
-Potential because an Assassin cannot apply that DPS by consistently attacking. His low AL prevents it.
-Reasonable because its slightly less than a warrior, but still good. Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPain
| Shut up and stop saying that assassins cannot compare with warrior damage. Even if you're not saying that one class is BETTER, you've said that warriors deal out damage better (even in the last post you made, where you said "just that warriors are better damage dealers").
You seriously believe that an Assassin is capable of outdamaging a warrior ? I though you had misinterpreted me as saying that Assassins suck, but you are contesting a different point entirely. I will not shut up about this, because its true. Quote:
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