Anet tricked me with 12 v 12

NO, they will not!

1) Heal party, etc. does not effect everyone (only those who are relatively close to you) in the party.
2) Having a bunch of IWAYers running around is NOT going to help you cap objective points unless they split up, at which point they would become useless and die in a very undignified manner.
3) Having 3-4 support chars is not going to help you out nearly as much as you think it might.

Just a small point.

After the same period of time, the thread complaining about the 3x4 teams is only 1/4 the size of the thread complaining about random teams of 12 during the FPE..

Anet did this to stop leavers, and by and large, it has worked. I havn't seen nearly as many drop outs as in the FPE.

Do you even remember these forums post FPE? Here's some things to refresh your memory:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000396
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142951
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142932
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000330

After the FPE, everybody was whining and complaining about 12v12 and how horrid it was in it's current state. ANet made some small changes(disallowed people to enter solo), which has seemed to drastically cut back on the big complaint- half the team leaving as soon as your team was 20 points behind. Now, since they listened to everybody's moans about 12v12 after the FPE, they're getting more whining and complaining.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000396

-Despite the title of the thread, most of the posts were in OPPOSITION to the OP.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142951

-This thread addressed the actions of PLAYERS, not gameplay. Even I supported minor penalties for leavers. But, I had no beef with the actual gameplay.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=142932

-Same as above.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3000330

-Same as above.


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3 of the threads you've presented as "Edvidence" of people not liking the format are actually in regards to actions of direputable players and not gameplay/format issues.

The one thread that was about format, ultimately resulted in far more posts supporting the FPE Format.

Feel free to offer more evidence if you would like to dig it up, but I think you'll find far more evidence supporting FPE style.

Agreed- most all of the complaints were about people quitting- which ANet did something to stop. They can't change the players, but they can change the game. Leaving 12v12 the way it was in FPE would have resulted in the same issues in release- 95% of battles being decided in the first 2 minutes based on the team who had the first ragequit. They made one small change, which has fixed that issue. In addition, it helps avert other things like party-wide skills being broken with 12-player parties.... heal-party/aegis/orders spammers, etc. It may not be the best solution, but it fixed the problem that generated dozens of pages worth of complaint posts.

One change that was suggested that I would like to see would be to have the other 8 players on your ally bar, and to have some way of communicating with them- maybe change the trade chat to a chat that is seen by all 12 players on your side, or something like that. I'm definately not saying that it's perfect now, but at least I'm not faced with 5/6 the games that I get in be decided by which side has the first ragequitter. With the change, it's also much easier to coordinate with your friends/guildmates who you enter with- you don't have spammed map-pings, and you can at least expect the other teams you get paired with to have some coordination rather than being 8 people who entered solo and have totally random builds and group composition.

hmm, another thread about 12vs12.. and still the same nonsense

12vs12 during the FPE was NOT fun!...

Rage quitters everywhere, hoards of minions dominating everything, and the entire part sitting in their base waiting for the timer to go down!

improvments need to be done but dear god dont go back to what it was like during the FPE, that was just the dark ages!

I love it when people say "12 vs 12 was the deciding factor and now that i dont like it i wish i had never bought this game".

Who are you kidding? You are addicted to guild wars, you would have bought it anyways.

yes you should be able to chat and see your entire battle but not letting ppl solo run just might be a good idea
-sure some people just want to pug it out with a build theyd like to test out without the hassels of waiting for a group, but not letting a single guy just randomly join a battle also weeds out a ton of potential ragequit noobs who will desert from battle for various reasons

Without solo joining I'll probably never play this at all.

Wrong, they could have changed the requirements without changing format. Still require 4 man teams to join, but put them together as a single 12 man team.

You better play now because within a month people won't be stupid/fair enough to have a 4man PUG there.

Who are you kidding?

The requirements prevent ragequitters, not the style. And people still ragequit.
You obviously havn't played at all if you don't think minions are dominating everything. And that is with the Minion Master nerfs.
And people will still sit in the base waiting for the other team to win just to get what faction they can.

The format fixes nothing without breaking all the team part of it.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. Really.

Right now you can still get a random group.

No I can't. Random would be how it was in the FPE, and that would be great. PUGs aren't random. People are very selective about who they take along. PUGs are exactly the reason I'll probably never play it. I have very little time to spend on the game most days and I don't want to spend it trying to get my non-cookie-cutter characters into PUGs. Just hitting the 'Enter Mission' button whenever I have a spare hour or so would be the greatest thing.

Guildies won't be an option either. Half of them won't be buying Factions the way things work right now and most of the ones who did get the game aren't interested in PvP. The remaining ones are not likely to be online in sufficicient numbers at the same time to field a 4 man crew more often than once a month.

You obviously arn't listening. The Pugs arn't picky enough yet, but if you procrastinate and Arena Net doesn't change it back (because back would be fun, can't have that), then you won't be able to play within a month because it will be run by cookie cutter builds of people who think their farming of Hall of Heroes entitles them to respect.

Perhaps so, but that's all academic really because I don't have a character anywhere near it anyway. That'll probably take me most of that month.

There was a fair share of negative comments about the way parties were put together randomly as well, at least on the forums I regularly post on.

But Anet still shot itself in the foot, they have someone that looks through all fansite forums. With the numerous comments about how fun the FPE was, the way it was structured ... they should of made the info about certain changes more available.

I've loved everything that Anet has done with GW up until now...

The new Alliance Battles just aren't as fun as they were in FPE. Ok sure some skills were overpowered but I'm sure they can be fixed without just sucking all the fun out of ABs in general. I mean like its been stated above, it just doesn't feel like 12v12 anymore.

Please Anet just change ABs back to what they were in FPE, 12v12 madness.

Thank you A Net for making alliance like this. We have more coordinated teams and less rambos. Alliance battles shouldnt be for casual RA people since it impacts the game a lot! Unlike RA. We need professional teams and A Net saw this. GJ!

I think the change to force people to form 4 man teams was a good one. Builds team work which inspired less quiters.

However the lack of communication between teams is horrible.

A friend of mine had an idea this weekend that wasn't half bad. If they are worried about spells like heal party being abused because they weren't geared for 12 people then...

Have your 4 people as a team and the other 8 as "allies" like how bodyguards and the guildlord or npcs like rurik get added. Then just make it so team chat and map pings get shown to all allies.

Skills remain balenced, but communication is improved. Seems like a non-exploitable middle of the road answer to most people's complaints.

You see, this is what you don't get: When you email Anet about these things they email you back and tell you to go POST IT ON THE BOARDS..... So you are completely and utterly wrong.
People who are posting their opinions on here is because they were told to! If you do not believe me, write a letter to Anet about not liking something or thinking something should be changed.

These people have a right to be mad. If you like it the way it is, fine, that is your opinion but the opinion of most of the masses is that they do NOT like the new way.

And Fate, you and your buddy are ages too late with that idea. It's the same one that we have all thrown out about a million times. I posted the idea a while back... Someone in here actually created an example of it. It is a great idea - we just dont see anyone using it.