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Originally Posted by Mournblade
Lyra wins the thread. Game over. =)
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Lore for level 20 cap
lyra_song
Sir fredman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
"...And the Ascalons and the Students of Shing Jea reached their bodies' limits. Even after many great battles and training, they could not become stronger, as the gods chose to limit their physical strength. Their enemies towered over them with superior strength and numbers.
However, the god's had bestowed something that even their most powerful enemy could not defeat. Their determination and knowledge. Without this, their enemies could only make their bodies stronger. After they had discovered their destinies and were enlightened to their purpose, they pooled their resources, and in small bands, they layed waste to even the strongest foes. The Underworld became no match for the ingenuity of the spirited monk. Normally resigned to simply supporting and healing their teammates, now with a new resolve and determination began to do the bidding as Grenth's servant. Even after the forces of darkness became stronger, the monk began to partner with the necromancer, and they cleared the dark forboding place of all evil. Across the land of Tyria and Cantha, Warriors who had become ascended and closer to the stars gained incredible knowledge. Even though they faced enemies in greater numbers and strength, they could outwit them, using superior skills and techniques, they destroyed many foes single-handedly. They traversed across the lands with impunity, running past hundreds of foes who couldn't even lay a scratch on them. Even with their magickal runes becoming slightly weaker, it didn't stop their determination. Let's not forget the Rangers, May Melandru Bless, who have forever been at Grenth's service, clearing and destroying the vile Aataxes that haunt his domain. They use a tactic that only a clever ranger can use, calling the spirits of energizing wind and quickening zephyr to aid them as they laid pits of traps with a deadly intent. Even the strongest and most brave of demons could not withstand these dangerous traps. They would see the ranger, armed with only a staff, and chase him, only to have their world fill with darkness, burn and scream in anguish as they are pierce with spikes. These exploits and deeds are what seperate the man from his foes. Intelligence. Wit. Cunning. Though they are stronger, we are smarter...." |
too much logic: confused: =)
Giga Strike
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Originally Posted by Orinn
It's interesting that Shiro, who became mortal (and was stripped of his status as an envoy when he did so) is level 31. He voluntarily left the spirit realm, and yet as a mortal, he is so powerful.
The lore as to why we as characters are capped to level 20 isn't as compelling to me as "why aren't ALL humans capped at level 20?" If level 20 is the natural limit, mortals can't reach higher levels of power, then so be it, but the inconsistancy of having level 24 human bosses in a world where human players are stopped at level 20 bothers me. I can write off level 24 (or even level 28) non-humans, because they're expected to follow different rules from humanity, but the level 24 Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah bosses bother me. If they, humans, can do it, why can't my human character? Of course, I bet that even if Anet does someday introduce dwarves as a playable race, they'll be capped at 20 as well. Any takers? it would be inconsistant with the way the game works, sure. but I'm willing to bet my last gold piece that dwarves will face the same limitations as humans: capped at 20 for players, not capped until 28 or higher for NPC's, and no attempt at explaining the disparity. |
2: those lvl 24 human bosses had auras of power which energized them and made them stronger.
redmen12
Lyra defenetly wins. /Bow
But what about assasins, rits, eles, monks, necros, and mesmers, all you covered was Warriors and Rangers!
BTW: Good job, the logic is making me able to sleep well at night
But what about assasins, rits, eles, monks, necros, and mesmers, all you covered was Warriors and Rangers!
BTW: Good job, the logic is making me able to sleep well at night
I pwnd U
Wow lyra where did you get that from? That pretty much explains everything. Great job.
Orinn
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
"...And the Ascalons and the Students of Shing Jea reached their bodies' limits. Even after many great battles and training, they could not become stronger, as the gods chose to limit their physical strength. Their enemies towered over them with superior strength and numbers.
However, the god's had bestowed something that even their most powerful enemy could not defeat. Their determination and knowledge. Without this, their enemies could only make their bodies stronger. After they had discovered their destinies and were enlightened to their purpose, they pooled their resources, and in small bands, they layed waste to even the strongest foes. The Underworld became no match for the ingenuity of the spirited monk. Normally resigned to simply supporting and healing their teammates, now with a new resolve and determination began to do the bidding as Grenth's servant. Even after the forces of darkness became stronger, the monk began to partner with the necromancer, and they cleared the dark forboding place of all evil. Across the land of Tyria and Cantha, Warriors who had become ascended and closer to the stars gained incredible knowledge. Even though they faced enemies in greater numbers and strength, they could outwit them, using superior skills and techniques, they destroyed many foes single-handedly. They traversed across the lands with impunity, running past hundreds of foes who couldn't even lay a scratch on them. Even with their magickal runes becoming slightly weaker, it didn't stop their determination. Let's not forget the Rangers, May Melandru Bless, who have forever been at Grenth's service, clearing and destroying the vile Aataxes that haunt his domain. They use a tactic that only a clever ranger can use, calling the spirits of energizing wind and quickening zephyr to aid them as they laid pits of traps with a deadly intent. Even the strongest and most brave of demons could not withstand these dangerous traps. They would see the ranger, armed with only a staff, and chase him, only to have their world fill with darkness, burn and scream in anguish as they are pierce with spikes. These exploits and deeds are what seperate the man from his foes. Intelligence. Wit. Cunning. Though they are stronger, we are smarter...." |
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by redmen12
But what about assasins, rits, eles, monks, necros, and mesmers, all you covered was Warriors and Rangers!
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Really that little blurb...its just what i imagine is happening to our characters.
Basically because we are chosen/closer to the stars, it causes some sort of "awakening" and stops our growth physically and allows us to grow only mentally.
[Once we reach lvl 20, we can only gain skill points, so its a mental growth]
Ristaron
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Originally Posted by TGgold
My theory, going to D&D.
Maybe those people aren't really and effective lvl 24 or whatever. Maybe...they took like.. FOUR LEVELS OF NOBLE o.o We all know about the USELESS NPC classes...maybe they're in GW too! |
It PAINS me to have to argue that according to (gets Dungeon Master's Guide out) pages 36-40 of the pre-v3.5 game those levels in their 'professions' (not classes) are still acceptable... however useless they appear.
I need to start playing this game again... I have all these books but my normal DnD group dissolved...
Mournblade
Ristaron - Neverwinter Nights (v2 coming soon!) is the next best thing to pencil and paper D&D. (Still not as good, but what can you do?)
Lyra - you win... you win... *ponders* KARMA! Yes, you just upped your karma for the day. Enjoy the heartwarming sensation that you've enlightened others, and that good things will come your way in return.
=D
Lyra - you win... you win... *ponders* KARMA! Yes, you just upped your karma for the day. Enjoy the heartwarming sensation that you've enlightened others, and that good things will come your way in return.
=D
Haggard
They should add Ancient Manuscript to Google Language Tools so that we can all talk like Lyra ¬_¬
Evey Chan
go lyra go lyra go lyra /cheers
Giga Strike
perfect explanation for why the lvl cap is 20 but what do u have to say about lvl 24 human bosses?
Xenrath
Wow this thread still going lol Really it's very easy to show levels are totally irrelevent in rp terms and purely game mechanic.
Proof: henchies.
Follow the main quests/story and observe the levels the henchies are. Even from the start (since you end up travelling back through Shing Jea to progress the story) - there's no decent explanation for that. They get to level 10 or whatever it was at Ran Musu Gardens, but then mysteriously become less powerful and competent when you go back to Shing Jea, then magically become more powerful again at the harbour.
Move along, nothing more to see
Proof: henchies.
Follow the main quests/story and observe the levels the henchies are. Even from the start (since you end up travelling back through Shing Jea to progress the story) - there's no decent explanation for that. They get to level 10 or whatever it was at Ran Musu Gardens, but then mysteriously become less powerful and competent when you go back to Shing Jea, then magically become more powerful again at the harbour.
Move along, nothing more to see
Nero
i would say that the Gods that created their magic didn't want anybody to grow too powerful so they put a limit on ones skills and set the limit at lvl 20...
idk
idk
luauelveneno
human players have 2 proffesions human npc's have not 2 proffesions. maybe thats why?
Orinn
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Originally Posted by luauelveneno
human players have 2 proffesions human npc's have not 2 proffesions. maybe thats why?
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Doesnt' explain why a PvP character with only one class is limited to level 20, but it works for PvE.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Orinn
That one's probably better, that by specializing in a single profession, rather than splitting their energies between 2, they can excel in their profession.
Doesnt' explain why a PvP character with only one class is limited to level 20, but it works for PvE. |
'If you please me with spectacular battles, I will find a way to grant you life again,' he said as the flames flickered in his eyes.
The spirits looked at each other. Another chance. Another chance at victory. The spirits could not resist.
Under Balthazar's blessings they were reborn. They joined many others and waged countless battles, being killed and reborn many times. Some chose to fight in the arenas. Others joined guilds to continue the endless battles there. Others still returned for a chance to control where their spirits resided, the Hall of Heroes.
Some spirits chose to be reborn as a different profession, or perhaps as a different gender. It mattered not. In the fields of battle, all were equal.
Balthazar smiled as the sounds of sword to flesh echoed in the Hall of Heroes. All was good."
Sam Stormwind
Ive never seen anything like that ingame. Dont think it exists,perhaps you were dreaming.
heurist
Heroes coming out of Ascalon and Shing Jea have sacrificed their ability to proceed past level 20 in favour of taking two big perks:
A. They have the ability to learn skills from more than one profession, and to change that second profession.
B. They have a mythic connection to an other-word entity that provides guidance and insight into the world they live in. These “other-world” entities often appear to possess knowledge of future events and can persuade other adventurers to share wealth and resources.
It would, theoretically, be possible to attain higher levels through some boon of the gods; this “exceptional power” will show up as an aura around the character but carries with it a cost: When dead, enemies could use a Signet of Capture to steal skills from the character, thus robbing them of their hard earned skills.
It is also worth noting that this boon of the gods that allows for progression beyond level 20 will result in the other (oft overlooked) boon of infinite free resurrection at resurrection shrines across the lands to be removed. It appears that bosses respawn when you return to an area but – as demonstrated by the observed phenomenon of henchman level loss when returning to some previously visited areas – you can not cross the same river twice, it is either a different river or, as is obviously the case here, the same river and the same attempt to cross it, the memory you have of crossing it before is just an echo of a “previous potential self”.
A. They have the ability to learn skills from more than one profession, and to change that second profession.
B. They have a mythic connection to an other-word entity that provides guidance and insight into the world they live in. These “other-world” entities often appear to possess knowledge of future events and can persuade other adventurers to share wealth and resources.
It would, theoretically, be possible to attain higher levels through some boon of the gods; this “exceptional power” will show up as an aura around the character but carries with it a cost: When dead, enemies could use a Signet of Capture to steal skills from the character, thus robbing them of their hard earned skills.
It is also worth noting that this boon of the gods that allows for progression beyond level 20 will result in the other (oft overlooked) boon of infinite free resurrection at resurrection shrines across the lands to be removed. It appears that bosses respawn when you return to an area but – as demonstrated by the observed phenomenon of henchman level loss when returning to some previously visited areas – you can not cross the same river twice, it is either a different river or, as is obviously the case here, the same river and the same attempt to cross it, the memory you have of crossing it before is just an echo of a “previous potential self”.
xiaotsu
Lyra wins half of my last cookie for entertaining me.
Ristaron
If there's to be any 'lore' for the cap, it's going to be related to the restrictions of the human body. Some people are weird in that they can surpass the normal limits (sort of the same way as the Chosen are able to see otherwise invisible things such as the Mursaat), be it in physical strength or magical aptitude.
Doesn't explain Argo's mysterious regression in levels, though.
Doesn't explain Argo's mysterious regression in levels, though.
frickett
You are right, It doesn't. Maybe he was nerfed for balance.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Ristaron
If there's to be any 'lore' for the cap, it's going to be related to the restrictions of the human body. Some people are weird in that they can surpass the normal limits (sort of the same way as the Chosen are able to see otherwise invisible things such as the Mursaat), be it in physical strength or magical aptitude.
Doesn't explain Argo's mysterious regression in levels, though. |
Goats17
You have amazing Rpg logic Lyra. It's a gift.
Giga Strike
maybe argo wasnt really a boss. the other seagaurds seem to lose lvls too so either they became alchoholics from the pain of defeat or they were empowered during the competition by a sort of temporary ritual.
Eldin
Everybody can see Mursaat, FYI. They merely live in the depths of the jungle where virtually nobody can find them, and they suddenly appeared after ascension, merely because they knew the situation was becoming more dire and they had to get involved in the conflict, instead of hiding.
"True sight" apparently has another meaning.
"True sight" apparently has another meaning.
Steps Ascending
I think enough has been said about lv20 lore, the dual proffesion theory seem the most plausible to me.Other explanation could be destiny, if the gods are whatching you, maybe you would be ignored by enemies(at least untill you're the last target), evade the majority of attacks, crit more often, deal more damages.
But, about ascencion, I think when they say "true sight"(or was it insight), they mean a more subtle sight. As far as i know, the advantages from ascension is being seen by the gods, gaining access to glint's lair (and to speak to her), accessing to the UW and FoW (which is linked to being seen by the gods, as I see it) and the 15stat point quests (which hint that it may be a insight power, or the gods giving a small boon).
Think about it i'm not even sure if the true sight and ascension are even linked together.With the Elonian/Margonites bussiness, i think they are completely separate.
What if the gift is to see/speak with the ghost of the deserts(and ascalon : Dwanya's avatar's quest, sorry for the gods' name), after all it is because of the elonian ghosts that we can change proffesion.
Now for Argo's degeneration, Maybe he was alway lvl 20. Maybe his lvl 24-ness(i think) came from the fact that he was the Luxon champion(dont remember what clan)his reputation of near-invincibility made him appear stronger, the Luxon suporting him boosted him or his confidence was boosted by being in known teritory/ in a known situation/with a known role yo play. By defeating him we humbilized him and by coming with us he lost the advantage of "fair-fight", he lost his role and the support of his people.
But, about ascencion, I think when they say "true sight"(or was it insight), they mean a more subtle sight. As far as i know, the advantages from ascension is being seen by the gods, gaining access to glint's lair (and to speak to her), accessing to the UW and FoW (which is linked to being seen by the gods, as I see it) and the 15stat point quests (which hint that it may be a insight power, or the gods giving a small boon).
Think about it i'm not even sure if the true sight and ascension are even linked together.With the Elonian/Margonites bussiness, i think they are completely separate.
What if the gift is to see/speak with the ghost of the deserts(and ascalon : Dwanya's avatar's quest, sorry for the gods' name), after all it is because of the elonian ghosts that we can change proffesion.
Now for Argo's degeneration, Maybe he was alway lvl 20. Maybe his lvl 24-ness(i think) came from the fact that he was the Luxon champion(dont remember what clan)his reputation of near-invincibility made him appear stronger, the Luxon suporting him boosted him or his confidence was boosted by being in known teritory/ in a known situation/with a known role yo play. By defeating him we humbilized him and by coming with us he lost the advantage of "fair-fight", he lost his role and the support of his people.
Steps Ascending
I think enough has been said about lv20 lore, the dual proffesion theory seem the most plausible to me.Other explanation could be destiny, if the gods are whatching you, maybe you would be ignored by enemies(at least untill you're the last target), evade the majority of attacks, crit more often, deal more damages.
But, about ascencion, I think when they say "true sight"(or was it insight), they mean a more subtle sight. As far as i know, the advantages from ascension is being seen by the gods, gaining access to glint's lair (and to speak to her), accessing to the UW and FoW (which is linked to being seen by the gods, as I see it) and the 15stat point quests (which hint that it may be a insight power, or the gods giving a small boon).
Think about it i'm not even sure if the true sight and ascension are even linked together.With the Elonian/Margonites bussiness, i think they are completely separate.
What if the gift is to see/speak with the ghost of the deserts(and ascalon : Dwanya's avatar's quest, sorry for the gods' name), after all it is because of the elonian ghosts that we can change proffesion.
Now for Argo's degeneration, Maybe he was alway lvl 20. Maybe his lvl 24-ness(i think) came from the fact that he was the Luxon champion(dont remember what clan)his reputation of near-invincibility made him appear stronger, the Luxon suporting him boosted him or his confidence was boosted by being in known teritory/ in a known situation/with a known role to play. By defeating him we humbilized him and by coming with us he lost the advantage of "fair-fight", he lost his role and the support of his people.
EDIT: sorry for double posting.
But, about ascencion, I think when they say "true sight"(or was it insight), they mean a more subtle sight. As far as i know, the advantages from ascension is being seen by the gods, gaining access to glint's lair (and to speak to her), accessing to the UW and FoW (which is linked to being seen by the gods, as I see it) and the 15stat point quests (which hint that it may be a insight power, or the gods giving a small boon).
Think about it i'm not even sure if the true sight and ascension are even linked together.With the Elonian/Margonites bussiness, i think they are completely separate.
What if the gift is to see/speak with the ghost of the deserts(and ascalon : Dwanya's avatar's quest, sorry for the gods' name), after all it is because of the elonian ghosts that we can change proffesion.
Now for Argo's degeneration, Maybe he was alway lvl 20. Maybe his lvl 24-ness(i think) came from the fact that he was the Luxon champion(dont remember what clan)his reputation of near-invincibility made him appear stronger, the Luxon suporting him boosted him or his confidence was boosted by being in known teritory/ in a known situation/with a known role to play. By defeating him we humbilized him and by coming with us he lost the advantage of "fair-fight", he lost his role and the support of his people.
EDIT: sorry for double posting.
ValaOfTheFens
hmmm...
I suppose the Gods came to a mutual decision that no one's servants should rise higher than the others. Lest one of the God's become greater than the rest. Possibly after the debacle with Abbadon. Heck, maybe that's why old Abby got nerfed in the first place. *shrug* Just some random musings.
I suppose the Gods came to a mutual decision that no one's servants should rise higher than the others. Lest one of the God's become greater than the rest. Possibly after the debacle with Abbadon. Heck, maybe that's why old Abby got nerfed in the first place. *shrug* Just some random musings.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Eldin
Everybody can see Mursaat, FYI. They merely live in the depths of the jungle where virtually nobody can find them, and they suddenly appeared after ascension, merely because they knew the situation was becoming more dire and they had to get involved in the conflict, instead of hiding.
"True sight" apparently has another meaning. |
It's true that it seems that anyone can indeed see the Mursaat - but it might be that, like the base Invisibility spell in D&D, they can't fight and be invisible at the same time. By the time you meet them ingame, chances are at least ONE person in your group ascended properly (and this could be a henchie...), and they realise such and decide to fight. Without Ascension, the Mursaat STILL have to be visible to fight (thus they can be fought by non-Ascended characters, for instance) but if they choose not to fight they can also make themselves invisible, which can grant significant advantages (making it darned impossible to finish one off, for instance - it just goes invisible until it heals. Then you could have the bunch of invisible Mursaat following you around waiting until your weakened before pouncing... and so on. True Sight isn't required to fight them, it just forces them to fight fair...).
From memory (unfortunately, it looks like the wiki is down at the moment, so I can't check the exact dialogue) the Vizier tells you you need True Sight to see and have a chance against the Mursaat. Personally, I'm inclined to think the fact that you don't actually need it (if you took the Drok's Run, for instance) and that Saidra doesn't seem to need it either is simply a plot hole. That said, the other interpretation is simply that the Vizier needed you to be Ascended for later, so he simply told the PCs what would make them do what he wanted them to do.