ANet, fix the Henchmen please.

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

Make them unable to draw aggro. I'm fed up with them starting fights in your CROWDED AND CRAMPED Canthan city while I'm still trying to revive the rest of the moron henchies who just died. Give us a damn toggle button to keep them from trying to start fights with mobs until I'm freakin' ready. Patrols in the city overlap. That's nice. Please spread out the damn patrols so they DON'T OVERLAP until you get a new henchmen control system in place. I can't even find safety spots in some of these tweener areas where I can revive without a damn mob intercepting THE HENCHMEN AGGRO BUBBLE.

Here I am in Bukdek trying to cap an elite, and I haven't died once while the moron henchies are probably at 60% DP.

Capping elites with henchmen parties remains the most frustrating thing about this game, and ANet seriously needs to get with the damn picture. Instead of taking time to fix something that was undoubtedly broken in the first campaign they just ignored it. Good job. Really, good job. Way to go.

Mandy Memory

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

You know...Ive never had this problem. Perhaps its just you.

outferno

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

San Jose, CA

Forsaken Wanderers

I would seriously love henchies more if they implimented some features like: Passive mode, Aggressive mode, Attack Mode, etc. Just throw them onto the buttons that we have and only have group leaders be able to lead henchies.

ANet, you guys listening? This would definitely make your henchies more friendly. Even adding a viewable aggro bubble would help on the henchies part.

Other things on my henchies wishlist instead of them babbling: ability to tell them when to resurrect and when not to resurrect. I often find myself being resurrected during battle only to die again. Then I find myself NOT getting resurrected when there was plenty of time to be resurrected or there was only 1 remaining enemy left vs my 7 henchmen.

ANET? YOU LISTENING?

DaerunAxis

DaerunAxis

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

USA - FL

Legends of Nightfall (pm to join!)

W/Mo

i agree the henchies can be pretty retarded, but if it bothers you that much, join a cap group...

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

Takes too much time to find a cap group. Not worth it.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

If the fact that mobs wern't already designed to gank you wasn't bad enough, the henchmen AI is terrible. The assassins are aggro dolls, their shadowstepping sends them way out of the fight, usually into an aggro bubble of one of the few mobs not designed to walk in on you only when you have already started a fight. The casters are just stupid. I can barely count on two hands the number of times casters have run straight into mobs after a fight has started.

aron searle

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

My problem with henchies.


Assasin = dosnt put the teleport skill to any use, does not kite but tanks, and needs the most healing in the henchie group because of that. Also if you are fighting a group and another is nearby, they can sometimes teleport and agro the other group, which is dumb. I personally dont use him.

Illisinist = Looks like the riddler, the gay riddler

They dont always get the "res mid battle" thing right, mostly it works out. but sometimes they res in the most stupid manner, it does need tweaking a little.

Other than that ive been able to use them for pretty much everthing.

SirJackassIII

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

Remove Signet of Devotion from Healer Henchie please. By the time they use it, the one they were trying to heal is dead.

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

When your henchmen do get wiped out, you are pretty much forced to revive the ONE hench healer that you can ever get LAST, because they immediately try to revive the others without even recovering their health/energy, etc, and assessing the mob situation around them. It's just a poor implementation.

Keep in mind it is still entirely possible to get skillcaps with henchmen parties (I just managed to get the one I was after), but it shouldn't be from wave after wave of wipeouts-revivals-take out what you can before next wipeout-restart, etc. The henchmen need a lot more sense and it's incredibly pathetic that this game has gone on this long without some sort of adjustment. I'm winning these fights by brute force, and not from any sort of technique.

As an aside, what else really sucks is that you are only allowed to have ONE hench of a certain type, which is completely unlike what is possible when forming a human party. How about giving us more healing henchmen? Hell, how about multiple henchmen of the same type for other builds? Maybe I'd like to grab 5 ranger henchmen some time? Is it that hard to come up with 4 other hench names and give them the same builds as the Ranger hench? Seriously.


EDIT: Just noticed I used CAPS in the thread title. Didn't mean to. Sorry about that.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

I just want to know why are the foes AI smarter than our hench AI. Hell I've seen a group fo 3 wars, 2 ele, and 1 mes SPIKE a target.

They triple chop, dragon stomp, and unnatural sig. I saw 1 henchy drop while 3 others were left with 1/8th life. They quickly fell.

Sunai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
Is it that hard to come up with 4 other hench names and give them the same builds as the Ranger hench? Seriously.
Do you really want half the city devoted to rows and rows of henchmen? That would be pretty stupid, so they'd have to come up with a different system. Which wouldn't be so "easy" anymore.

I've never had any problems with henchmen, but I've only played a monk in Cantha so far. Never had any problems in Tyria with other characters, but we'll see.

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunai
Do you really want half the city devoted to rows and rows of henchmen? That would be pretty stupid, so they'd have to come up with a different system. Which wouldn't be so "easy" anymore.
Hench recruiting NPC. Problem solved. Add all of the hench to a window, not an area of town. Maybe keep the storyline henchies out for added polish, but the "extras" could just be grabbed from this NPC's menu. Just have a pool of names where one is chosen randomly when you pick a type of hench.

Divinus Stella

Divinus Stella

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Wales

Steel Phoenix

Remove res from the healers, remove purge signet and sig of devotion, give them decent healing skills instead of two instances of heal other.
Also the aggro thing is annoying, hench move slowly and often wander off randomly causing them to aggro too many mobs and even get themselfs stuck in walls etc.

Da Immortal King

Da Immortal King

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/Mo

Seriously, the healer hench needs to stop trying to go melee with me and when she does she heals herself and ends up dying so does the rest of the party and the stupid ritualist is always last since the first thing it does is cast the stupid spirit when we are not even in battle its just RETARDED. I get so pissed when they dont do their damn jobs and up being dead.

Magnus_1

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
I just want to know why are the foes AI smarter than our hench AI. Hell I've seen a group fo 3 wars, 2 ele, and 1 mes SPIKE a target.


I've had it with henches. Lately I've been having trouble finding groups in Tyria (due to Factions no doubt, which is completely understandable) and so I tried using henches. After playing today, I came to the conclusion that I will not play with henches. If I can't find a party, I just won't play the game. Of course, this really doesn't bother ANet (1 less person using their bandwidth), but it can be frustrating as a player. An AI update is definately required, and would be more welcome than the Henchman "conversations" during missions and quests.

Sidra

Sidra

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

CT

NITE

R/

I really don't care how complicated the henchie thinks their interpretation of life is, I want them to do their damned jobs. I died twice trying to cap Palm Strike, and then i had to map out after i got it because the only reason we won was getting Kenshi first. Meh. The henchies really are beginning to piss me off with their auto-run-to-aggro-no-matter-what BS. A-net is too busy making them look pretty to focus on the basics of the game dynamics. I really would like to see better AI as the next update, no matter what has to be shoved off before it. Except maybe the fixing of alliance battles.

Ira Blinks

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Rezzing should be definately looked into. Often henchies tryin to rez other henchies by running thru the wall of mobs and instantly die there.

Very common situation: Henchies aggroed more than i asked for. I pulled them out. 1-3 died in process because they either totaly ignored pullback or because healer hench ran first and left them die. Now im waiting for groups to separate and trying to kill one group that left to get to the bodies of the fallen henchies. What do you think monk does? Oh yes, she just rushes thru straight to the bodies trying to rez... needless to say that ends up pretty bad. At that point I usually just rezone, because even if I will be able to get party back on track henchies will have 60% dp and its just not worth the trouble...

I think henchies should only rez by the target call of the player. I say "Devona [suicidal henchman] is dead!" - monk goes and tries to rez her, and not a second earlier.
That would fix most of the problems.

SAQ

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Melbourne/Taipei

Radicals Against Tyrants

N/

Learn to play with henchies and learn to control them, it's not that difficult. You should be glad henchies are there to provide free service, since you don't like PUGs at all.

Melissa Is HOT

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

America

W/E

wow that idea of getting multiple of one hench is a great idea! why would u need a window? just recruit the same exact hench twice whats wrong with that? just click em again.

also henches are retarded and im getting pissed off trying to kill that smiting horse with a 60DP at the end of the 15 attribute mission

Ristaron

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

My problems with henchies:

1. Cantha healer waits ten minutes to res me when I'm the only one dead (usually because SHE aggroed an army and led them right to me).
2. They have no tactics (attack whoever the party leader attacks, otherwise follow the last party member who moved). As someone who prefers squishy characters, I do NOT want to have to be the one to aggro every damn monster we come across. I would give anything to be able to have certain henchmen on AGGRESSIVE mode or something.
3. They have very few priority skills (and even less of a clue about how to use them). Seriously, Mhenlo uses Word of Healing when I'm at 90% health, and the Tyrian necro hench casts Blood Is Power on STEFAN!

Most of the time when people take henchies, they don't want to deal with the stupidity of real people who have these problems. Perhaps ANet should consider that when they next look at the AI system.


Henchy points I applaud:
-Stefan and Talon Silverclaw (the two fighter henchmen) are pretty hard to kill. Seriously, I've seen Stefan solo three White Mantle (2 casters and a Justiciar)... that's some good AI right there.
-The archer henchmen know how to stay out of the way. They are some of the only henchies who don't constantly attract aggro.
-The Canthan earth ele henchman is brilliant with his skills. He is one of the select few of the henchmen who have a clue.

Mr_T_bot

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAQ
Learn to play with henchies and learn to control them, it's not that difficult. You should be glad henchies are there to provide free service, since you don't like PUGs at all.
You try to find a PUG to do quests or even missions. Everything is empty.

Sunai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristaron
2. They have no tactics (attack whoever the party leader attacks, otherwise follow the last party member who moved). As someone who prefers squishy characters, I do NOT want to have to be the one to aggro every damn monster we come across. I would give anything to be able to have certain henchmen on AGGRESSIVE mode or something.
I just wanted to point out that you can target something, and then press Ctrl+Shift+Spacebar. This will call a target without you attacking it, and if you're close enough to the target (though still outside the bubble) the henchmen will take off and take all the aggro while you stand back. Unfortunately it's sometimes the other casters.

It's not really an "aggressive mode", but I do it all the time on my monk and don't have any problems with being hit.

jtchans

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

W/

lol, funny when both henchies use rez at the same time and try to rez the same person

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

That's not funny, it's retarded. Enemies can time thier knockdowns and such to chain their skills where as henchies can't even do something so simple. You can only control henchies so much....

Da Immortal King

Da Immortal King

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/Mo

Sister tai does healing breeze now? and Blessed light {e} and jameis gaze (heal other) YAY!!!! They listened!!

Edit: or has that always been there??

Iskrah

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
The assassins are aggro dolls, their shadowstepping sends them way out of the fight, usually into an aggro bubble of one of the few mobs not designed to walk in on you only when you have already started a fight. The casters are just stupid. I can barely count on two hands the number of times casters have run straight into mobs after a fight has started.
Ok, let me quote that again and again and again and again, because hey, important people read us. Listen up! ANet there is NO WAY someone beta-tested it. I can't believe it. The henchies have the worst AI ever. Worse than Rurik, in the way that the missions are just way more challenging. They just don't know how to make a decision.

You have a goddamn earth elementalist who always forgets to trigger his wards. ALWAYS. He should do it at the begginning of the battle. We don't care about the place, we can move the center of fighting by stepping back. You have a stupidass Assassin who can aggro 3 groups in a matter of 2 shadow stepping skills randomly used, and doesn't get away when he should (he just teleports to draw more enemies). He's SO BAD.

There is one thing that is great. They follow aiming pretty well. So that's cool. The rest, ugh.

As to people saying "join PUGs", guys, it happens that the server is empty. For example right now it's midnight in the US, I happen to be here, and on the European servers which I'm linked to (for good reasons, I don't play only at that time), there is no one because it's too early for them. Just an example. I can't hench it, people are getting some rest or going to work. Hey what am I supposed to do? Just make a better macro on your henchmen, with basic stuff. I have a hard time thinking that you don't monitor the gaming. But I start to believe it. Pre-made PvP characters have been horrible for a long time now, and so are the henchmen selection of skills (take the rangers for ex)...

death_hawk

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sik Affliction

All I can say is:
MY KINGDOM FOR A HEAL!
I've actually sat there at the front of a battle (as a Warrior) with the Healer Henchmen WELL within Casting range spamming my declining health and still dying. Then I get picked up by the ONLY healer henchmen they give us early game, thus preventing EVERYONE else in the party from being healed for 6 seconds. Tell me. Does ANY of this make ANY sense?

Things that need to be fixed (IMO):
1. TWO Healers in early cantha. 1 henchmen for 8 people is retarded.
2. The Healer hench not picking her nose when there's healing needing to be done. I've 60DP within 3 aggro bubbles of the zone point to a town.
3. Control of the henchmen. I'm tired of them aggroing everything in sight.
4. Remove the Res from the Healer Henchman. They don't need it. Everyone else can do picking up. I'm tired of my team being slaughtered mid-battle.

Vel Satis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

No guild as yet

The moment that sealed it for me was when the healer hench stood there and did nothing at all while we slowly died of disease (this was in the quest with floating clouds of something).

No enemies around us, we were well out of the clouds just after a battle and about 4/6 party members just degened to death. Good job healer hench!

A Leprechaun

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

i've never had this problem but then im still on prophicies

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

Two healers? Overrated. I demand a protection henchman. Give us back Lina. Prot + Heal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heal x 2

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

Overlapping Am Fah mob patrols/drop-ins as well as Jade Brotherhood clusters have really soured my impressions of Factions thus far. It's freaking ridiculous that every mob seems to have a damn patrol that walks by it. Drop-in mobs are lame, just like all the pop-up mobs from Prophecies were. These mobs are too damn big. Split them up. I'm sick of having hench parties that can't handle ANet's intentions of how they want to allocate mob placement! Henchies always get wiped out with any mob bigger than 5 or 6.

Absolutely ridiculous. I despise actually exploring this game (what little "ungated" areas I'm actually allowed access to), because the mobs coupled with the lame henchmen really tick me off. Every fight sucks. Every fight.

ANet still hasn't learned. Smaller mobs, harder individual monsters, mobs more spread out than they are, and keep the damn patrols away from each other. If one mob is patrolling an area, they don't need another one to intercept it. I'm convinced that ANet has never even tried to play the damn game with henchmen, or else Prophecies would still be in beta with this kind of lame henchmen AI and mob allocation.


Keep in mind that I'm not asking for the game to be made pathetically easy, but I just want the fate of my party of computer players and I to be more based on what I do rather than what the stupid computer henchies can NEVER do. I never die until I see all seven of my hench teammates go down in flames and I'm suddenly left to take on about 6-7 people myself. Wonderful. I love this stupid game.

SAQ

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Melbourne/Taipei

Radicals Against Tyrants

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot
You try to find a PUG to do quests or even missions. Everything is empty.
That's why henchies are still better even if they are flawed.

Zaxan Razor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Organised Spam [OS]

W/

Absolutely signed.

Last night, me and my guild leader were trying to do waking waters with the hench..they are clueless.

1) Healer hench doesnt start kiting until she has 10% health left, stops to cast signet of devotion, dies.

2) You have to stand stock still for the henchmen to attack a target once you have called it, but can't attack it. For example, the dragon in waking waters. Warrior's cant melee it, and if you stand still, you die..so you have to move around..but then the henchies just run around with you..

3) Again in waking waters, the henchies just stand around the corrupted scales, giving them all -10 health degen.

4) Degen + healer Hench - You have to stop and stand still and wait for the healer hench to heal your party, because she won't stop herself.

5) Take the res off of the healer! especially when you only have 1 healer hench! even if you try and beat her to the res, she will still stop healing and hope that her res is quicker than yours! let the ritualist manage the ressing.

6) If a henchmen dies, the healer hench will stop healing everything else to res. If a player dies, he can be left dead for up to 5 minutes after the battle has finished.

7) When trying to run with henchmen, they fall waaaaaay behind you, and aggro everything that you carefully avoided. also, they dont run in a straight line anymore, instead preferring to fan out and aggro everything in the surrounding area.

8) When you stop after you've been running for a while, henchmen will now run infront of you, but only sometimes, and different distances.

9) If the healer henchmen has a res, at least let the player control it. The most annoying thing is when you're forced to res the monk hench, even when you know she's gonna charge off on her own through 4 groups to res the over extended ritualist.

Thats about all i can think of..oh wait no..

The hench will sometimes still not get out of aoe damage.

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

Something I have a problem with in relation to Henchmen, but not exactly.

Any time I'm in Cantha with a full hench party (And I say Cantha because it doesnt happen in Tyria) the game acts like I'm carrying a gear. People familiar with that glitch know what I mean. The mobs completely ignore the henches and concentrate entirely on me. Its happened with my monk, my warrior and my Mesmer. Its like 10 seconds after I aggro a mob, the constant bashing by about 10-12 enemies has destroyed me. Then they turn their attention to the henches.

And once the player is dead, the henches lose all sense of order. So you're destined to lose almost every encounter and simply have to slowly pick off the enemies one by one while you sit at 60%

Tibbaryllis

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/

I basicaly agree with all the ideas presented here(called henchmen rezzing, toggleable modes of aggression) The only thing i'd like to add is target calling from beyond the grave... If you're with a pug(even tho they usualy wont listen) They have the ability to see what you call and keep attacking it, henchmen on the other hand will finish whatever target you dyed attacking then randomly fan out while the enemy AI spike them down

Also- signet of devotion is a great skill for a monk who is conserving energy and just topping off allies, it should not be used as a word of healing or devine intervention unless you want to go ahead and make it 1/4 cast time... it would also be nice to see the healer hench have a useful skill to replace it, I for one would reccomend vigorous spirit- that way atleast the party would be able to help itself while the healer hench is stops mid heal to res someone.

Also, about the multiple of 1 kind henchmen, it shouldnt be two hard to keep clicking on the same henchmen and inviting them, and if you wanted to make things seem more realistic just have a system that assigns them random names, heck, give them random armor style and color if you want. Although its unfortunate that if you could use multiples of one henchmen you would have to bring like 4 of the healer hench so that their overlapping sig of dev gave you atleast a glint of hope....

Vaga

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Despite how bad you say henchman are, you still manage to complete the game, and cap all the skills you want

Amok

Amok

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

I've also noticed the Canthan henchies seem to run off and attack groups without warning. They've caused more trouble for me than in Tyria. I spose it's not much different than playing with a PUG anyway.

baz777

baz777

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

South East England

Leader: Lady Hairy Armpits S[mell]

E/

At least Henches don’t run off the map on their own

mqstout

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Pittsburgh

Quote:
Originally Posted by baz777
At least Henches don’t run off the map on their own
Anymore. They used to. That's one of the huge AI problems they fixed last summer, that henchmen would run off to their deaths upon being resurrected.

Mtank325

Mtank325

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Crimson Blood Dragons [CBD]

I think they should fix the henchie and NPC problem of getting stuck on buildings and other NPCs. That's annoying having to run all the way back to untangle them from continuously running into some peasant.