I've been playing a lot of PVE since Factions came out... and I'm noticing a huge lack of Mesmers.
Are mesmers any good in PVE? Or do people just not like to play them? Personally... mesmers are one of my favorite classes to play in PVP, so I really wanna RP one to the point where I can participate in alliance battles at least... but I'm starting to wonder if there isn't some problem with mesmers in RP?
On the other hand, it certainly couldn't be any more difficult than trying to find a group as an ASSASSIN.
PVE Mesmers?
MasterDinadan
Arkantos
Most people say mesmers are meant for PvP.
Avarre
And most people are remarkable shortsighted (offence not targetted at above poster). Its the simplicity triagle:
Damage + Tank + Heal
And mesmers fall halfway between damage and heal (damage prevention), and have less visible and direct damage - alot of mesmers play domination nukers, which generally suck. As a result many people don't know what mesmers are supposed to do and generally don't choose them.
Damage + Tank + Heal
And mesmers fall halfway between damage and heal (damage prevention), and have less visible and direct damage - alot of mesmers play domination nukers, which generally suck. As a result many people don't know what mesmers are supposed to do and generally don't choose them.
Sidrakket
Clumsyness, empathy, backfire, power spike, cry of frustration.
Are just some of the good skills. Remember the AI is stupid. Caster mobs are going to cast with backfire on them. Melee mobs will keep swinging away, killing themselves on empathy and clumsyness. Cry of frustration is the required all purpose interupt. I like it best.
Conjure phantasm is also okay if you dont try and cast it on things that people are attacking. -5 degen for a few seconds isnt much, -5 degen for 10 seconds is 100 damage. I dont personaly like it however.
Max illusion and domination. The empathy+clumsyness combo is realy realy good. From illusion you can also get something like ineptitude if you want.
Shatter hex is nice in a hex intensive area.
Mesmers are great. Chaos damage is high and unresistable. It just requires something else to happen first. Because of this mesmers should not assist. They need to solo along with the group to manipulate the mobs. You can often times kill a couple things in the time the entire rest of the group kills 5 or so. If you tried to attack what everyone else was attacking however you would not have contributed much of anything. Its all about indirect damage.
And never ever take energy burn in pve, ever. Its recast to too slow, its cast time is long, and its just crappy.
Are just some of the good skills. Remember the AI is stupid. Caster mobs are going to cast with backfire on them. Melee mobs will keep swinging away, killing themselves on empathy and clumsyness. Cry of frustration is the required all purpose interupt. I like it best.
Conjure phantasm is also okay if you dont try and cast it on things that people are attacking. -5 degen for a few seconds isnt much, -5 degen for 10 seconds is 100 damage. I dont personaly like it however.
Max illusion and domination. The empathy+clumsyness combo is realy realy good. From illusion you can also get something like ineptitude if you want.
Shatter hex is nice in a hex intensive area.
Mesmers are great. Chaos damage is high and unresistable. It just requires something else to happen first. Because of this mesmers should not assist. They need to solo along with the group to manipulate the mobs. You can often times kill a couple things in the time the entire rest of the group kills 5 or so. If you tried to attack what everyone else was attacking however you would not have contributed much of anything. Its all about indirect damage.
And never ever take energy burn in pve, ever. Its recast to too slow, its cast time is long, and its just crappy.
MasterDinadan
Thanks, I think a PVE mesmer is actually going to be a lot of fun for me to play... and anyways, it will be worth it when I actually make it to the Alliance battles, because Mesmer is unquestionably my favorite PVP character to play.
Terra Xin
Yeah I dont take e-burn or e-surge... nor would I take any form of E-denial into PvE, wast of time sapping 1 persons energy when you fight them in mobs. I wouldnt even take E-burn for the damage, it doesnt seem to do that much.
I tend to take a good degen build, and roll my targets. Being in a party helps. Empathy and Backfire are a general must have. I make good use of phantom pain and similarly Accumulated Pain. Good spells those two.
I tend to take a good degen build, and roll my targets. Being in a party helps. Empathy and Backfire are a general must have. I make good use of phantom pain and similarly Accumulated Pain. Good spells those two.
shoot n loot
umm.. on my mesmer ive found its easiest to do heavy dmg and get groups goin /elementalist and being an echo nuker
what im using now is somthin alogn lines of
Flare
Arcane Echo
Meteor
Bed of Coals (slap it down then meteor them so they get knocked down and catch on fire)
Power Drain (for your own benefit
Dragons breath
res sig
chose your own other skills, i keep 12 in fire, 15 in Fast cast, and rest in Inspiration (for e management somewhat), in the end, flare is one of best skills cas with this much fast cast, although energy expensive, you can spam the hell outta it (no recast time)
what im using now is somthin alogn lines of
Flare
Arcane Echo
Meteor
Bed of Coals (slap it down then meteor them so they get knocked down and catch on fire)
Power Drain (for your own benefit
Dragons breath
res sig
chose your own other skills, i keep 12 in fire, 15 in Fast cast, and rest in Inspiration (for e management somewhat), in the end, flare is one of best skills cas with this much fast cast, although energy expensive, you can spam the hell outta it (no recast time)
Sidrakket
I tried that for a while, but its just not as good. Elemental damage is resistable, and if you want an echo nuker just get an ele.
The dual atunement fast cast flare spammer can be useful in places that take doubble damage from fire magic i suppose. But again, resists. You could also use that half-range bit slightly higher damage spammable water nuke. THis would let you use channeling and literaly gain back more energy than you spend =D
Me/N can be useful in pve also with putrid explosion doing decent damage with 12 in death. You could also go blood and be a BiPer and make some blood wells. I once was primary healer with just blood wells=P The softer targets died easy but me and the smart warrior managed to kite around and own everything and win the mission =p
The dual atunement fast cast flare spammer can be useful in places that take doubble damage from fire magic i suppose. But again, resists. You could also use that half-range bit slightly higher damage spammable water nuke. THis would let you use channeling and literaly gain back more energy than you spend =D
Me/N can be useful in pve also with putrid explosion doing decent damage with 12 in death. You could also go blood and be a BiPer and make some blood wells. I once was primary healer with just blood wells=P The softer targets died easy but me and the smart warrior managed to kite around and own everything and win the mission =p
SkyeFerina
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot n loot
umm.. on my mesmer ive found its easiest to do heavy dmg and get groups goin /elementalist and being an echo nuker
But then you're not a mesmer anymore, just a quick-draw lower damage ele....
The great unwashed masses in PvE simply don't understand mesmers as we a) don't carry big scary sticks b) don't have obviously visible damage like meteors falling out of the sky. For the same reason when I went water in PvE some ppl said to me "Are you actually contributing to this battle at all or just tagging along?" Ok so maybe water was a bad choice in PvE...but it's quite visually subtle.
As a mesmer you have to be content with beavering away in the background. Like someone said, don't focus on the main target or your spells are wasted. Most ppl fail to notice that the next target they cycle to is nearly dead, or that the monk failed to heal himself once, or that the party polished off a mob with no damage done by their eles since you shut them down.
It can be a thankless task, but IMHO it's the most fun class to play. I went questing with a warrior friend in the desert, the irritating bit where waves and waves of Storm Riders keep on coming...we finished them all off super quick, and she said "Wow, that was twenty times easier than last time!" With the right build for the situation you're king of the hill. And if you can't get into PUG's for missions, just take henchies and pop back to the mission area when you're done. Quite often the same ppl who rejected your join request are shouting for a second party following their abject failure. Laugh internally and move on.
Spread that Mesmer Love!
The great unwashed masses in PvE simply don't understand mesmers as we a) don't carry big scary sticks b) don't have obviously visible damage like meteors falling out of the sky. For the same reason when I went water in PvE some ppl said to me "Are you actually contributing to this battle at all or just tagging along?" Ok so maybe water was a bad choice in PvE...but it's quite visually subtle.
As a mesmer you have to be content with beavering away in the background. Like someone said, don't focus on the main target or your spells are wasted. Most ppl fail to notice that the next target they cycle to is nearly dead, or that the monk failed to heal himself once, or that the party polished off a mob with no damage done by their eles since you shut them down.
It can be a thankless task, but IMHO it's the most fun class to play. I went questing with a warrior friend in the desert, the irritating bit where waves and waves of Storm Riders keep on coming...we finished them all off super quick, and she said "Wow, that was twenty times easier than last time!" With the right build for the situation you're king of the hill. And if you can't get into PUG's for missions, just take henchies and pop back to the mission area when you're done. Quite often the same ppl who rejected your join request are shouting for a second party following their abject failure. Laugh internally and move on.
Spread that Mesmer Love!
Cjlr
There's a lack of EVERYTHING in Factions right now.
A typical district is 30 Assassins, 15 Ritualists, 2 monks, 1 elementalist, 1 warrior, and maybe a necromancer or a ranger to "balance things out".
Although, I bet if there were more mesmers they'd be as ostracized by idiots and worshipped by the erudite as they were/are in Prophecies.
A typical district is 30 Assassins, 15 Ritualists, 2 monks, 1 elementalist, 1 warrior, and maybe a necromancer or a ranger to "balance things out".
Although, I bet if there were more mesmers they'd be as ostracized by idiots and worshipped by the erudite as they were/are in Prophecies.
Ju_Smurph
Power Return is an absolute staple skill in PVE as we all know Monsters Energy regen is insane, so it does not matter. The other thing i love about this skills is that it's 'FC' So i can interuppt while playing an illusion mesmer...
lhurgrokoyv
1 skill for pve mesmers:
wrastrels worry+boss monster=GG free morale and drop
wrastrels worry+boss monster=GG free morale and drop
Avarre
Wastrel's Worry has no greater effect in Cantha, bosses no longer have half hex duration.
Even before that, bringing a skill to fight bosses only was redundant and silly.
Even before that, bringing a skill to fight bosses only was redundant and silly.
Lord Flash Heart
Im enjoying mesmer outings with all mesmer teams in PvE in Tyria for some time now, and im sure we will see the same thing happening in Cantha. As we all know mesmers are very flexible and can properly prepare for almost any kind of enemies.
Hope to see your mesmers in Cantha soon
Lady Flashheart, aka Flash Heart
Hope to see your mesmers in Cantha soon
Lady Flashheart, aka Flash Heart
lhurgrokoyv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Wastrel's Worry has no greater effect in Cantha, bosses no longer have half hex duration.
Even before that, bringing a skill to fight bosses only was redundant and silly. well actually, you can farm bosses grenths footprint soloing as a mesmer to get lots of greens that you can sell 1-2k each afterwards
Even before that, bringing a skill to fight bosses only was redundant and silly. well actually, you can farm bosses grenths footprint soloing as a mesmer to get lots of greens that you can sell 1-2k each afterwards
Avarre
You can also bring conjure phantasm as your only skill to FoW, sure it will work, but it's not the most effective way.
Wastrel's was never am efficient skill to bring. It most certainly isn't now.
Wastrel's was never am efficient skill to bring. It most certainly isn't now.
Alexander V
I tend to use WW a fair bit to finish things off. It's cheap to cast and fire & forget and then I move onto the next target.
The one thing you have to get used to as a PvE mesmer, is other people saying "Yeahhh!!! Did you see me pwn him! Man I love being a wammo!" This usually happens after you have just killed a particularly nasty boss or mob, having watched el'Wammo make 1 hit the entire battle. It's kinda satisfying in a weird way to know that it was you, but just not say anything
The one thing you have to get used to as a PvE mesmer, is other people saying "Yeahhh!!! Did you see me pwn him! Man I love being a wammo!" This usually happens after you have just killed a particularly nasty boss or mob, having watched el'Wammo make 1 hit the entire battle. It's kinda satisfying in a weird way to know that it was you, but just not say anything
Eaimirth Etaivella
Shatter hex puts ele's to shame...
2x hex, cry+e surge (yea I use it in pve; but have a reason)
...this adds up to 120x2+40+80x2(a.echo)
440 damage before the ele even finishes casting that shower...
I would like to see any other character in pve do that kind of damage in such a short duration ^_~
2x hex, cry+e surge (yea I use it in pve; but have a reason)
...this adds up to 120x2+40+80x2(a.echo)
440 damage before the ele even finishes casting that shower...
I would like to see any other character in pve do that kind of damage in such a short duration ^_~
Kai Nui
PVE Mesmer is very tough to play in PVE as opposed to everything else. They have extremely weak armor and people don't want them, so you'd better have something to offer. Warriors on the other hand don't have to worry about anything, they just press buttons after they've pressed Space Bar and gotten a certain amount of hits.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui
PVE Mesmer is very tough to play in PVE as opposed to everything else. They have extremely weak armor and people don't want them, so you'd better have something to offer. Warriors on the other hand don't have to worry about anything, they just press buttons after they've pressed Space Bar and gotten a certain amount of hits.
When you factor in distortion and that all caster AL is the same, mesmers are one of the hardier caster-classes in PvE.
Warriors ALWAYS have to worry... about aggro management, about how much is targetted at them, about which enemy to target and when to spike it down, etc. Many warriors are no more intelligent than henchmen, and people accept aggro splatter as the norm now that there is no book.
Warriors ALWAYS have to worry... about aggro management, about how much is targetted at them, about which enemy to target and when to spike it down, etc. Many warriors are no more intelligent than henchmen, and people accept aggro splatter as the norm now that there is no book.
Claudia Starlight
it's a pity mesmers are often overlooked in PvE =/
my arcane echo and energy surge is a weapon of mass murder... but no one seems to care..
maybe people think that mesmers are "lesser" elementalists?
reminds me of EQ2.. no one wants my illusionist because i don't do enough damage.. hah
my arcane echo and energy surge is a weapon of mass murder... but no one seems to care..
maybe people think that mesmers are "lesser" elementalists?
reminds me of EQ2.. no one wants my illusionist because i don't do enough damage.. hah
LightningHell
No, they don't do less damage than most classes. That is such a misconception.
It's just that most of the populace aren't smart enough to notice that Backfire deals 142 damage when their opponent casts a spell.
It's just that most of the populace aren't smart enough to notice that Backfire deals 142 damage when their opponent casts a spell.
NinjaKai
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoot n loot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LightningHell
It's just that most of the populace aren't smart enough to notice that Backfire deals 142 damage when their opponent casts a spell.
Clean damage that goes straight through armor. Even one spell cast by a spellcaster under backfire can be fatal.
felinette
I've got three mesmers on the go in PvE right now--one Tyrian, two Canthan. They're a hell of a lot of fun. Want one to do major damage--build for that. Want one to shut down/interrupt casters--build for that. Want one to offer support in the way of softening up opponents? Make warriors look like stumbling idiots? You can to that, too. Want one to look pretty--goes without saying, and that includes the boys.
They're a *lot* of fun to play. You may not be appreciated by the masses (though I've not really found that to be true--I have no problems grouping), but you won't care because you'll be having a blast. And yeah, get used to owning an opponent but having the tank take credit. Good for a chuckle. If anyone reading this has never tried a mesmer, try it. You just might like it.
zeroxy
Quote:
Originally Posted by felinette
I've got three mesmers on the go in PvE right now--one Tyrian, two Canthan. They're a hell of a lot of fun. Want one to do major damage--build for that. Want one to shut down/interrupt casters--build for that. Want one to offer support in the way of softening up opponents? Make warriors look like stumbling idiots? You can to that, too. Want one to look pretty--goes without saying, and that includes the boys.
They're a *lot* of fun to play. You may not be appreciated by the masses (though I've not really found that to be true--I have no problems grouping), but you won't care because you'll be having a blast. And yeah, get used to owning an opponent but having the tank take credit. Good for a chuckle. If anyone reading this has never tried a mesmer, try it. You just might like it. Why not do 1 mesmer with lots of skills and just change the build when you want to? I saw a guy with 2 level 20 warriors, one W/ME and one W/MO, W/mo for running and w/me for tanking :S. Apparently he didnt know about the secondary profession changing thing..even after beating the game twice!
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
No, they don't do less damage than most classes. That is such a misconception.
It's just that most of the populace aren't smart enough to notice that Backfire deals 147 damage when their opponent casts a spell. Hehe, yeah i seriously doubt that anymore than 1 team member in FoW will figure its NOT the ele that caused the Skeleton Ether Beaker to lose 441 health in 3 seconds (due to it casting 3 times through Backfire). They seem to notice even less when that Shadow Monk for some reason stops casting completely.... it'd surprise me if any of the team even knew that Power Block existed  Avarre, i see you don't have much love for Wastrels Worry  Although i suppose now bosses in Cantha don't have 1/2 hex duration, that skill is even more useless than it was before. I did normally bring it when i went FoW, for Wurms mainly, its worth wasting a slot just to kill a wurm in 30 seconds alone rather than 30 minutes together. Plus you can always use it on Power Blocked casters or Warriors entering battle. Power Spike + WW can do a fairly decent amount of damage.
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Avarre, i see you don't have much love for Wastrels Worry
Thats because it is useless in PvE, in all circumstances. If anyone disagrees, sorry, you are wrong. Oh, it does damage and kills enemies? So does the benefits of IWAY... doesn't make it good.Tip : Play conservatively. When you're the last one standing after kiting heavily, people will start paying attention that you're not just cannon fodder. For that reason, bring a few defensive skills to make sure you can stay alive. You should be switching targets and observing the entire field, so you should be the last to fall anyways. Strange Brew
PvE : My guild seriously never leave town these days without my mes. They were dubious at first , but since playing same runs with/without mes they can really appreciate the dfference I make. Just need to spread the word.....
Eaimirth Etaivella
Why do you hate WW so much Avarre?
Themis
Mesmer is not for direct damage. And WW looks alot like direct damage. I agree with Avarre : WW is one of the least efficient spells, with a very low effective damage/cost ratio. Especially in PvE.
AnubisEight
What's the best secondary class for a dom mes in PvE?
I'm completely new to messing. I've been playing a unique War/Ele build for the past year with great success... but I really want to learn more about the metagame by workin' a mes. Is it just considered inefficient running anything other than a full-blown mes? Eden2k5
I don't like WW much either, I guess I feel I should be doing something more important like waiting to interrupt vital skills, or shutting down. Than using my energy for 'possible' damage.
WW is a good skill though, just not one I like to use much I don't like using Backfire either, however it owns in Challenge Missions. I tried Mes/Ele with Glyph of Energy and Gale/Blinding Flash, with some inspiration/interrupts. Harldy any damage but it could really shutdown stuff in PvE, blind a taget, knockdown a monk/caster, blind another melee, interrupt, blah blah. While your team has an easier time taking em out. Great overall skills for PvE are: Clumsiness, Ineptitude, Images of Remorse, Cry of Frustration, Guilt & Shame, Power Drain, Drain enchantment, etc. Oh Arcane Echo is another skill I dislike. Requires too much energy, and its easy to overlook a build that uses it to get rid of arcane echo and put something else in that in the end is more effecient. Really just good for do or die elite skill skill builds. I think mesmers probably have to shift targets more than any other class to make full use of their skills. On a final note, has anyone found Psychic Instability yet? 
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
Clean damage that goes straight through armor. Even one spell cast by a spellcaster under backfire can be fatal.
I know that, but the Mezzes who do it doesn't get recognition.
AnubisEight
No response to my question?
Avarre
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnubisEight
What's the best secondary class for a dom mes in PvE?
I'm completely new to messing. I've been playing a unique War/Ele build for the past year with great success... but I really want to learn more about the metagame by workin' a mes. Is it just considered inefficient running anything other than a full-blown mes? I always run pure mesmer. Secondary class is for ressurects, usually. (Monk or Rit). You can do almost anything as a mesmer, and secondary class skills are less effective... so why not use as much of your strongest capabilities as possible? AnubisEight
Thanks, Avarre.
LightningHell
Well, Glyphing might do you some good...but that's it.
Skuld
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudia Starlight
it's a pity mesmers are often overlooked in PvE =/
my arcane echo and energy surge is a weapon of mass murder... but no one seems to care.. maybe people think that mesmers are "lesser" elementalists? reminds me of EQ2.. no one wants my illusionist because i don't do enough damage.. hah Your echo surge does make me think you're a lesser elementalist 
LightningHell
Well, there ARE some who come from the Elementalist profession. Some adapt and some don't.
Y'know, I play an Elementalist too. Ranting done. Well, please don't address everyone else not pure Mesmer as idiots, there's that rare one percent of the populace that's slightly educated, you know.
Evilsod Quote: I always run pure mesmer.
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