So, uh. (Elite Missions)

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:10 - 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
I'm too old and cynical in GW terms to believe AN will change anything as fundimental as that, even if proven broken by the community. Favor being a case in point. Can't play with friends from around the world, 2 entire regions being shut out for 5 months, the mechanism for gaining it being completly unreleated to a players ability or interest in one area.
About favor: Everyone should've known about the Worlds At War system, it was one of the most advertised points when it came to Guild Wars. If you didn't understand that the favor system would be there, then it just comes down to someone not researching what they're buying, which is their own damn problem.

Blaine Derrick

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:11 - 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
Read some post I made a page or two back. I say there is nothing wrong with rewarding alliances.

What we are trying to say is that having access to missions as an exclusive reward is a bad idea.
I think this is the main point of the thread. Some people think that having access to these missions is "too good" of a reward. Myself, I think that these missions are perfect, as they don't imbalance the game at all and provide a very nice incentive for competition among the top alliances. The idea that a non game breaking reward can be "too good" seems kind of silly to me. If the missions had pre nerf henge helm crafters, or super exclusive 10/1 vampiric weapons, then I would be complaining.

Also, where exactly is eneryone getting the idea that they are entitled to these missions simply by purchasing the game? In every PR statement and factions interview that I remember seeing, Elite Missions were always mentioned as only being rewarded to top alliances. As someone else mentioned earlier, no one complained about (mostly mediocre) gold drops in HoH, but heaven forbid that a-net put in a reward that is actually interesting and worthwhile!

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:11 - 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelechRic
You might want to go re-edit some of your posts then. At least the part where you quoted other people "bitching about bitches." Hmm, that sounds pretty deragotory.
Okay, I'm bitching about bitches in conjunction with defending ArenaNet.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:11 - 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Well, Elite Missions can be done without spending any time grinding. I doubt many people would say the same about FoW armor. So okay, it makes sense. You can either spend time to work for a bonus, or not spend time and get to play an Elite Mission.
No they can't. Perhaps your a bit too dim to realise what we've been saying for the last few pages. But if your in a small alliance with friends you can't just log on 1 day and find out you've had the 'godly title of elitism' for the last few hours and can go on a trip to these Elite Missions. If your in the alliance that seems to have the title 24/7 then this will happen quite often. To have even the slightest of chances to get access to this area you either have to have been in 300 times already or these 'elite' groups won't let you in or grind away to get the faction needed.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:12 - 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Your example is a quirk of language, specifically the English language. Translate that joke into Japanese and it wouldn't make any sense, even though logic in Japanese is the same. And mathematics is one of my strong points, along with Computer Science.
/sigh

I wonder why you keep talking about Japanese ? Because you can speak Japanese? Congratulation. It's my 4th language.. and I'm also studying Computer Science... wait are you studying? I hope not.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:12 - 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
And ironically, our camp couldn't have a better example than yourself to illustrate how bad those decisions are.
How so? ArenaNet is highly successful, obviously decisions in the past have worked.

Iskrah

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

05 May 2006 at 00:13 - 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
I'm not bitching about bitches, I'm showing my support for ArenaNet and their designers' decisions about Guild Wars.
It's not your support you're showing. It's your badly-placed pride and your unability to understand others' opinions when it doesn't affect you in the slightest little way. But you're here to troll anyway because you just can't stand to see people wanting to stay in their guild (preffering a reasonable size to entertain different relations with people) and you can't stand the fact that they'd like to be "elite" when they just want access to content of the game they paid for.

For some reason. Get a clue.

What's 50 dollars to you? Cheap change or parents' problem? To me it's going to the grocery store. If I want to voice my opinion on the fact that GW's advertisement LIED to me largely, I sure have a right to do so!

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:13 - 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack
/sigh

I wonder why you keep talking about Japanese ? Because you can speak Japanese? Congratulation. It's my 4th language.. and I'm also studying Computer Science... wait are you studying? I hope not.
Of course I am studying it. Go ask "Is it a girl or a boy?" in normal Japanese conversation-style. The only reason I used Japanese is because it's an obvious example of how your joke is colloquial, not universal.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:15 - 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Your example is a quirk of language, specifically the English language.
Given that we're all using the english language here, what's your point?

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:16 - 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Of course I am studying it. Go ask "Is it a girl or a boy?" in normal Japanese conversation-style. The only reason I used Japanese is because it's an obvious example of how your joke is colloquial, not universal.
>_<

You obviously haven't studied logic. Oh well return to topic. Please do not bother to quote again. Oh.. my uni > your uni.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:16 - 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskrah
But you're here to troll anyway because you just can't stand to see people wanting to stay in their guild (preffering a reasonable size to entertain different relations with people) and you can't stand the fact that they'd like to be "elite" when they just want access to content of the game they paid for.
I'm still in my guild, a guild that will probably never be in an alliance, let alone own an outpost.

Where on the box or in the Product Description does it list the Elite Missions? Really, if you can pull it up, I'll be impressed, and I'm not being sarcastic.

Buoyancy

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:16 - 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas:<
Nice, try and insult my age? Somehow you guessed correctly, meh.
He guessed correctly because it's pretty obvious who the immature people in this thread are.

Anyways, this whole debacle, when combined with Anet's decision to not provide me with all of the character database storage I would have paid for, is why I won't be buying Factions.

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:17 - 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
How so? ArenaNet is highly successful, obviously decisions in the past have worked.
Some things about business:

Past performance is not an indication of future performance. Cases in point: Enron, Lucent and Digital Equipment Corporation.

This is ANet's second chapter. There's not yet proof that it will be as successful as the first or that it was a sound design. Time will tell us that.

Why the ardent defense of ANet? They're a wholy owned subsidiary of a public corporation (NCSoft) with loads of paid publicists and marketing people. Can't they defend themselves? Maybe you should just say you're defending the game because you like the Alliance control of Elite missions because it benefits you in some way. Or maybe it's because you have a righteous sense of right and wrong play when it comes to Guild Wars. Maybe it's because you think people who complain are weak and you are bothered by that. At least you'd be honest with yourself and the rest of us here in this thread.

Iskrah

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

05 May 2006 at 00:17 - 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Where on the box or in the Product Description does it list the Elite Missions? Really, if you can pull it up, I'll be impressed, and I'm not being sarcastic.
Should I quote the queen of PR or are you done playing that kind of kid's game?

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:17 - 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack
>_<

You obviously haven't studied logic.
What are you talking about? Seriously, translate the joke into Japanese. The little logic joke that is included in the English version will not translate it unless you force it, which ruins jokes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack
Oh.. my uni > your uni.
Guess I'm not the only elitist in here.

Buoyancy

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:18 - 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack
Why do have the "elite" missions to be only the toy of guilds with enough members? To laugh in the other players faces? We can play this mission you can't!
That is the only reason why anybody would support the current model. There are a large number of people who have failed at life who spend most of their days online trying to be superior to others. They demand the ability to control other people in online games in order to make themselves feel less pathetic.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:18 - 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
I'm still in my guild, a guild that will probably never be in an alliance, let alone own an outpost.

Where on the box or in the Product Description does it list the Elite Missions? Really, if you can pull it up, I'll be impressed, and I'm not being sarcastic.
Alright, I found it. You know what you were paying for?

"The best and most powerful alliances can venture on Elite Missions, which are designed to be the ultimate challenge for even the most experienced teams."

That's how it is. You got what you paid for.

KYOT_Candy

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 May 2006 at 00:19 - 458
Yeah this is pretty lame. I have played GW since beta of Prophecies, and so far I am not impressed with Factions. I remember how excited I was when Prophecies came out and I have none of that towards Factions. I have played HoH, have cleared both UW, and Fissure and was hoping for some new exciting things to do. Well....12 v 12 was fun but they screwed up the party list so there are only 4 people on a party, and on top of that its so buggy I get pets on my party list who dont belong to anyone in my party. I have made the top 10 for that amber running stuff, now im bored with that. This game is boring and has no depth. And on top of that I cant even play the Elite missions. I consider myself an elite player as I was one of the first monks to be able to guide a balanced team through UW. I dont farm, I just enjoy exploring and trying new builds in challenging areas and I cant even do that. Now I have to farm faction to get elite areas....My guild is not made up of people who are very skilled but cant sit around farming faction all day. I am in school and cant sit around playing for faction 24/7.

Mister Papaya

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:19 - 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buoyancy
That is the only reason why anybody would support the current model. There are a large number of people who have failed at life who spend most of their days online trying to be superior to others. They demand the ability to control other people in online games in order to make themselves feel less pathetic.
Well, why do you think people get FoW? Just because they like how it looks? Why do you think people post screenshots of their stacks of Ectos? Why do you think GvGers show off their fancy rare items? It's all elitism, obviously in different forms. If you show something off, you're saying that what you have is better than what other people have, therefore you're being elitist.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:20 - 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskrah
Should I quote the queen of PR or are you done playing that kind of kid's game?
Actually, I already found it:

"The best and most powerful alliances can venture on Elite Missions, which are designed to be the ultimate challenge for even the most experienced teams."

That's how it is. You get what you paid for, no?

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:20 - 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Alright, I found it. You know what you were paying for?

"The best and most powerful alliances can venture on Elite Missions, which are designed to be the ultimate challenge for even the most experienced teams."

That's how it is. You got what you paid for.
So when did the words 'best' and 'powerful' actually mean 'we ave loads ov members so we r da pwnz0rs' ?

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:21 - 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
How so? ArenaNet is highly successful, obviously decisions in the past have worked.
Need I spell it out? You're the poster child for a way of gaming people don't want to involve themselves with. The more you post, the more people will realize this. It may not do anything to ANet, but your posturing reaffirms what a lot of people believe is wrong with the gaming community. The preponderance of complete pricks. One of the reasons many people wouldn't dream of playing in any other way than with a select group of friends: the sheer dread of ending up in a guild with people like you.

You asked for it.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:22 - 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
What are you talking about? Seriously, translate the joke into Japanese. The little logic joke that is included in the English version will not translate it unless you force it, which ruins jokes.

Guess I'm not the only elitist in here.
Well done you were able to ignore my remarks and quoted again.

Plus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Guess I'm not the only elitist in here.
Thank you for admiting it. Oh well actually I'm going to a crappy uni but I like it.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:22 - 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
So when did the words 'best' and 'powerful' actually mean 'we ave loads ov members so we r da pwnz0rs' ?
It pretty much always has with Guild Wars, to think ArenaNet would change is to be ignorant. As much as Skill > Time Spent has been flaunted by ArenaNet, it always has been Time Spent > Skill. This is another example of that.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:23 - 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
Need I spell it out? You're the poster child for a way of gaming people don't want to involve themselves with. The more you post, the more people will realize this. It may not do anything to ANet, but your posturing reaffirms what a lot of people believe is wrong with the gaming community. The preponderance of complete pricks.
Ad hominem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gli
One of the reasons many people wouldn't dream of playing in any other way than with a select group of friends: the sheer dread of ending up in a guild with people like you.
Elitism.

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:24 - 466
Here Derek,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic

As far as my Japanese friends in the engineering department tell me this stuff holds true whether you speak Japanese, English or Martian.

1 OR 1 = 1

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:25 - 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Here Derek,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic

As far as my Japanese friends in the engineering department tell me this stuff holds true whether you speak Japanese, English or Martian.

1 + 1 = 1


Thank you

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:25 - 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelechRic
Here Derek,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic

As far as my Japanese friends in the engineering department tell me this stuff holds true whether you speak Japanese, English or Martian.

1 + 1 = 1
If you had reading comprehension you'd realize I was saying your joke doesn't translate, not that 1 or 1 = 1 doesn't translate. Also, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 1. What kind of school are you going to again?

Try again.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:26 - 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It pretty much always has with Guild Wars, to think ArenaNet would change is to be ignorant. As much as Skill > Time Spent has been flaunted by ArenaNet, it always has been Time Spent > Skill. This is another example of that.
So i'm been ignorant now? Ironic coming from you. I could come online once a week or for 5hours a day and still go to FoW/UW when my region had the favour. Coming online 5hours a day would mean i could play more roles, builds, etc. Coming online once a week would mean i could play a couple of roles, most probably quite well. Would that stop me getting a group because i don't play much? The last time i checked people kick you from 5man teams to FoW for obviously been clueless, not for having a low /age count. The 2 are not 1 and the same.

vtrajan

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

N/A

Mo/E

05 May 2006 at 00:26 - 470
There is so much emotion and flaws in arguments because of emotion that I am going to cease and desist.
I disagree with most of you and because I tend to take everything with a grain of salt, there are a lot of reasons and significant logic that I can find to side with a.net on their decision on this.

It's not a great mechanic, it has its flaws, and certainly can be exploited in a certain way. But it works, there's a lot of good people at the top of the alliances, and you ARE able to access that content.

Do you have something better? Do you have the code, formulas, and product to present an alternative to them?
Can you do anything but say "this is dumb", "this sucks", "anet is dumb", "bad anet bad", "I won't buy chapter 3", "many won't buy chapter3"?

So far, I haven't seen a good alternative. Instead of arguing and flaming while maintaining some kind of moral or otherwise highground with overly verbose arguments, get together and construct an alternative?
If you can find a mechanic that requires -- even without the code to support it -- skill over time spent, in a WORKING and AGREEABLE method, present it.
I've only seen questionable theories and opinions on how else to do it.

These are my final words on this matter. Cheers all, thanks for your input!

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:26 - 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
If you had reading comprehension you'd realize I was saying your joke doesn't translate, not that 1 or 1 = 1 doesn't translate. Also, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 1. What kind of school are you going to again?

Try again.
I modded the + (which is a symbol commonly used for LOGICAL OR) to the word OR so that you wouldn't be confused.

As for school... that was many moons ago my friend. Since then I've learned that I don't know it all.

Sir_BlackJack

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/R

05 May 2006 at 00:26 - 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
If you had reading comprehension you'd realize I was saying your joke doesn't translate, not that 1 or 1 = 1 doesn't translate. Also, 1 + 1 doesn't equal 1. What kind of school are you going to again?

Try again.
1) Not his Joke. Mine.

2) Fancy learning boolean?

3) 1 + 1 = 1 holds true, confused? try 2)

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:28 - 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
So i'm been ignorant now? Ironic coming from you. I could come online once a week or for 5hours a day and still go to FoW/UW when my region had the favour. Coming online 5hours a day would mean i could play more roles, builds, etc. Coming online once a week would mean i could play a couple of roles, most probably quite well. Would that stop me getting a group because i don't play much? The last time i checked people kick you from 5man teams to FoW for obviously been clueless, not for having a low /age count. The 2 are not 1 and the same.
Look at how /rank is migrating to PvE. Also, if you haven't grinded, chances are you aren't UAX, therefore you're not as valuable as other players who play as often as you. And it probably would dampen your ability to find a good group based on what skills you have, just maybe not in one specific zone, ToA.

Buoyancy

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:29 - 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Ad hominem.
So what? It's better than you deserve. Why don't you go back to WoW, since it's the kind of place where elitist fanboys like yourself belong.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:29 - 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Ad hominem.
Yes, and totally warranted, because as I stated in the one part of my post that you chose not to quote, "You asked for it." And you did. Literally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
Elitism.
No, not elitism. Cliquism. And again totally warranted. Your existance on this forum affirms all the prejudices that it's based upon.

Iskrah

Iskrah

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

SsS

R/

05 May 2006 at 00:30 - 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw
It pretty much always has with Guild Wars, to think ArenaNet would change is to be ignorant. As much as Skill > Time Spent has been flaunted by ArenaNet, it always has been Time Spent > Skill. This is another example of that.
Are you actually saying that ANet DOES lie?
And you still don't get what's the complaining about?

If you're OK with them lying, you should at least be able to understand other's frustration!

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

05 May 2006 at 00:30 - 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtrajan
There is so much emotion and flaws in arguments because of emotion that I am going to cease and desist.
I disagree with most of you and because I tend to take everything with a grain of salt, there are a lot of reasons and significant logic that I can find to side with a.net on their decision on this.

It's not a great mechanic, it has its flaws, and certainly can be exploited in a certain way.

Do you have something better? Do you have the code, formulas, and product to present an alternative to them?
Can you do anything but say "this is dumb", "this sucks", "anet is dumb", "bad anet bad", "I won't buy chapter 3", "many won't buy chapter3"?

So far, I haven't seen a good alternative. Instead of arguing and flaming while maintaining some kind of moral or otherwise highground with overly verbose arguments, get together and construct an alternative?
If you can find a mechanic that requires -- even without the code to support it -- skill over time spent, in a WORKING and AGREEABLE method, present it.
I've only seen questionable theories and opinions on how else to do it.
Actually you make a few decent points here. You and I are fundamentally opposed on our view of how good/bad this system is. That's fine. What I disagree with in your above statement is that we don't need to present an alternative in order to validate our arguments. We've said why we don't like Alliance control of elite missions and how we feel that it reduces the quality of experience for us. That's sufficient and should be enough for ANet to take notice. They are the gaming company and they are getting paid to develop and maintain the game. It's their job to find viable alternatives to what I consider a broken system because I'm paying them to do that as their customer.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

05 May 2006 at 00:31 - 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir_BlackJack
1) Not his Joke. Mine.

2) Fancy learning boolean?

3) 1 + 1 = 1 holds true, confused? try 2)
If he can't figure that out i'm sure he'd love Maths which he seems so fond of.

Bet he'd have a heart attack when he learns that (2+i)(2-i) = 5 or that 3 + 3 = 0

vtrajan, do you do anything but come in here every other page, make 1 bitchy post about nothing in particular and go? Say something constructive or not at all.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:31 - 479
Ever use the more commonly used operands, such as ∨? Also, I'm sorry that I use logic in applications such as computer science, where + has a much different meaning. Hell, + also has an implied meaning as AND for Boolean Logic.

Buoyancy

Banned

Join Date: May 2005

05 May 2006 at 00:31 - 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtrajan
So far, I haven't seen a good alternative.
Yes you have, since it's been posted many times in this thread. A good alternative is to completely remove the barriers to PVE content access that depend on a person being part of any political organization (ie. a guild). Then you remove the barriers to PVE content that are based on your geographic location and the PVP performance of other people. This should be obvious even to the people that can't do math at Anet.