Balthazar Faction & Shards & Platinium Bars ~ Grenth Faction & Ectos

Reference Threads:
06-12-2006 | Sevanyr | Balthazar Faction Based Titles
06-02-2006 | Retribution | New Title based on Faction w/Balthazar
05-08-2006 | bilateralrope | Give Balthazar faction from Alliance battles
02-26-2006 | d3kst3r | /faction emote
03-02-2006 | WoofWoof | Faction to Gold
01-08-2006 | Wrath of m0o | Does your Faction Freeze when you unlock everything ?
12-11-2005 | The Muffen Man | The Faction Cap Needs To Be Removed
12-11-2005 | Hiryu | Faction Conversion System for PvE Items
11-26-2005 | thetrojansheep | Faction Change: Please Read and Comment
11-11-2005 | muelon | Faction = Garbage
09-22-2005 | Asplode | Things to do with Faction
09-08-2005 | Rey Lentless | Do Something w/ capped faction
07-17-2005 | Schorny | faction limit :/


1a. Balthazar's Faction & Obsidian Shards
- Use Balthazar's Faction to redeem Obsedian Shards
- Only redeemable in Fissure of Woe

Why?
- Obsedian Shards are found in Fissure of Fow
- Fissure of Fow is domain of Balthazar
- Those who unlocked everything can continue to earn Balthazar's faction
- Bridge the gap between PvE and PvP

NOTE: This is an alternative method to acquire Obsidian Shards, not a replacement.

1b. Balthazar's Faction & Balthazar's Platinium Bars, Diamond Bars
- 1,000 Balthazar's Faction for one (1) Balthazar's Platinium Bar
- 10,000 Balthazar's Faction for one (1) Balthazar's Diamond Bar
- Redeemable in any PvP Outpost
- one (1) Balthazar's Platinium Bar can be sold to any merchant for 1,000 gold
- one (1) Balthazar's Diamond Bar can be sold to any merchant for 10,000 gold
- Balthazar's Platinium & Diamond Bars can be stacked like other stackable items, to a maximum of 250 per stack
- An alternative for those who do not wish to venture forth into the Fissure of Woe

Why?
To allow players who:
- have already unlocked everything continue to earn Balthazar's Faction
- do PvP regulary to earn gold doing what they love doing - PvP

2. Balthazar's & Grenth's Titles
Allow players to gain titles based on how many factions they have earned with:
- Balthazar
- Grenth

For example, redeemed:
- 100,000 Balthazar faction : Balthazar's Footman
- 200,000 Balthazar faciton : Balthazar's Squire
- 500,000 Balthazar faciton : Balthazar's Knight

- 100,000 Grenth's faction : Grenth's Apprentice
- 200,000 Grenth's faction : Grenth's Scribe
- 500,000 Grenth's faction : Grenth's Reaper (idea contributed by Spoony)

(name of titles and numbers are used as an example, do feel free to come up with better names and figures)

3. Grenth's Faction
- Grenth's Faction be added
- Grenth's faction can be used to redeem Globs of Ectoplasm.
- Only redeemable in the Underworld

Why?
- Globs of Ectoplasm drops in Underworld
- Underworld is domain of Grenth
- Promote players to venture forth into the Underworld as a team to complete quests

How to earn Grenth's faction?
- all the quests available in the Underworld

Polls:
========
Do you like these ideas and wish to see them implemented? Yes / No

1a. Able to use Balthazar's Faction to redeem Obsedian Shards
Yes (9)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Replicant, Dougal Kronik, Gonzo, Undivine, Spoony, pah01, pappayaponta, Redly

No (3)
=====
Thom Bangalter, Terra Xin, Blitzy

1b. Balthazar's Faction & Balthazar's Platinium Bars
Yes (4)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, pah01, pappayaponta, Redly

No (0)
=====

2. Earn titles based on amount of Balthazar's & Grenth's Faction redeemed
Yes (13)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Replicant, Terra Xin, Dougal Kronik, Gonzo, Blitzy, Mister Muhkuh, Undivine, Spoony, pah01, pappayaponta, WasAGuest, Redly

No (1)
=====
Thom Bangalter

3. Addition of Grenth's Faction
Yes (8)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Replicant, Dougal Kronik, Gonzo, Undivine, Spoony, pah01, pappayaponta

No (4)
=====
Thom Bangalter, Terra Xin, Evilsod, Blitzy

um, balthazar's faction is for unlocking skills and items for pvp. which makes sense, because the only way you can get it is through pvp.

so...bad idea.

this whole thing is just some sort of bad dream. My brain kind of hurts trying to digest this all.

Grenth's faction: how do we earn that? doing underworld quests? UW=PVE. and pve rewards=experience.

Put me down for a no on every option.

incase you haven't noticed, balthazar's faction is for unlocking skills & upgrades..

what he means is what happens when you completly cap out on Balthazar Faction... meaning.. Unlocked EVERY skill and EVERY Weapon Upgrade.. then theres no more point for Balthazar Faction. and could also give PvP'ers a source of income besides having a PvE Character to go farming with. would also give hardcore PvE'ers like me a reason to PvP (i've got 10,000 tanked up of all 3 factions but 4 PvE characters so no need to unlock stuff)

The Cost of the Items would have to be high though, but not too high to discourage people from doing it.

1. Faction
1. Yes
2. Yes

2. Titles
1. Yes
2. Yes - Don't see why that isn't implemented already

3. Faction - Greneth
1. Yes
2. Yes - As long it can't be farmed too extensivly

So now, we have 2 people who disagrees while 1 person who agrees.

Where are the rest of the players who have maxed out their slots with PvE characters, PvP with those PvE characters and is unable to reap the benefits of Balthazar's faction?

Surely they must have something to comment regarding the first proposed idea.

1) Balthazar is no longer needed for PvPers with everything unocked. What are they gonna do with shards? No, and no

2)eh... yes, and yes

3)farming catastrophe. no, no.

As said before, Balthazaar is for PvP rewards. Also Jadite and Amber are for the 15k sets, not the FoW equivilant like Obsidian Shards are.

Titles for faction gained for Luxon/Kurzick could work though, it would give another purpose to toiling for hours over 12vs12 battles other than the joy of them. Could help reduce leavers as you need to be there at the end to get the faction, although that could also promote AFKs...

Faction for Grenth, just no.

Yes to everything!

And I would add that remove Balthazar's Faction from the PvP area and replace it with Guild (or some other non-linked name) Faction for unlocking skills and items for PvP.

Have the Faction of each individual diety allow the trade for items that drop in their domain. And the accumulation of diety Faction from the quests in each respective domain.

Why should Balthazar's faction be only limited to PvP unlocks? What are they gonna do with shards? Sell them for gold, horde them for Obsedian Armor etc.

How is "playing the game it is intended to play" a "farming casstrophe"? Are you implying that all the repeatable quests in the Underworld can be 55hp monk solo farmed?


Yes, that is correct, at the moment. But what's stopping ANET from implementing more features to Guild Wars?

What's wrong with that? It will actually encourage players to actually "play the game that it is intended to be played". People will actually do the quests in the Underworld instead of SS necro and 55hp monk 2 man team farming endless for Ectos over and over again.



That's a good idea, mate.
I will edit the original post to add in your proposal.

Since earlier I suggested that Underworld quests rewards Grenth faction, then might as well make it that Fissure of Foe quests rewards Balthazar's faction.

Actually, I like all these idea. Giving faction for quests in the gods' realms would mean there would no longer be a benefit to entering with a smaller party.

No! Just cause you all want FoW for cheap doesn't mean that a.net should let you get it.

Do you meant to say:
"Just cause you all want the Obsedian Armor for cheap"?

First of all, I never mentioned that I wanted the Obsedian Armor.
I was merely suggesting new ideas that could improve the overall gaming experience of Guild Wars.

And, regarding the price of the Obsedian Armor, take a look at the current prices of Globs of Ectoplasm and Obsedian Shards. The prices have already dropped quite drastically. 5.5k for a Glob of Ectoplasm.

Regarding the proposed idea to introduce "Grenth's Faction" was to make the quests in Underworld more appealing to PvE players.

Experience as a rewards for PvE characters is only one type of reward, others may include:
- gold
- crafting materials
- items
- armor
- etc


The proposed idea is to:
Allow players to earn Balthazar's or Grenth's Factions by completing the various quests in:
- Fissure of Woe
- Underworld

Allow players to use those earned factions to redeem Obsedian Shards or Globs of Ectoplasm.


In such a scenario, there would be much more incentive to form teams to complete quests in either Fissure of Woe or The Underworld, players would not feel deprived of good drops from the monsters killed, since everyone would receive faction rewards when the team completes a quest.

Advantages:
- more incentive to form a full party to complete quests faster
- everyone gets rewarded for completing quests


Those who oppose this idea, please tell me what is wrong with this idea?
I believe those who oppose this idea are those farmers, main speaking:
- 55 health Monks
- Spiteful Spirit Necromancers

Where is the rest of the community?
The title of this thread is not attractive enough?
Perhaps a better name for the title of this thread is required.

Yeah but if shards drop to like 250g each, you might just say "oh why the heck not." FoW armor is meant to be a gold sink. They should keep it that way.

Please elaborate on the theory that the price of the Obsedian Shards would ever drop to 250 gold a piece?

I don't want Obsidian Armor.

But I do think the idea of Faction and rewards for special crafting materials that drop in the domains of the respective diety should be obtainable through the trade of Faction fromthat respective diety. The Faction should also be obtainable via quests in the respective diety's domain.

At the moment, Balthazar's Faction serves absaolutely no purpose for me. I have unlocked all my skills through PvE, and unlocked all the important runes and mods through PvE as well. Actually, I use my PvE character for any sort of PvP that I do anyway.

Updated original post:
- merged polls
- 4 polls now
- new 4th poll
- added names of voters

Cast your votes now!


Commentary
I do not understand why people oppose the idea of faction rewards in the respective diety's domains.

By allowing:
- Balthazar's / Grenth's Factions to be redeemed for Obsedian Shards / Globs of Ectoplasm
- Balthazar's / Grenth's Factions to be earned as quest rewards in Fissure of Woe / Underworld

Players would be:
- more willing to venture forth into the Fissure of Woe / Underworld as a team of 8 players
- to accomplish various Fissure of Woe / Underworld quests

Instead, given the current situation, we can see:
- 55 Monk
- SS Necro
going into the Underworld as 2 man team trying to farm for Globs of Ectoplasm drops.

1,2,4 /signed

3, /not-signed

How would you get faction for Grenth, each kill you make? Quest rewards in Underworld?
How would this effect GW Economy, in which Ecto's play a vital role.

Updated original post to include recent votes.

Nope. Well, if I can get Grenth's Faction for each kill I make in the Underworld, the faction amount must be small.

Why yes, it'll be just like completing quests for the Kurzick / Luxon and be awarded with Kurzick / Luxon Faction, except this time you'll be completing quests for Grenth.


Given the many addition of new armours in Cantha, I believe Globs of Ectoplasm will no longer play a vital role in Guild Wars economy. Well, at least not as vital as before.

Well, to balance things, the faction required to redeem one Glob of Ectoplasm may be high.

For example,
- 2,000 Grenth's Faction is required to redeem one Glob of Ectoplasm,
- or even more than 2,000 Grenth's Faction.

Anyway, the figures are variables and can be changed accordingly.

You got a good point. If it is hard to aquire the faction and you need a lot to get a Ecto, then I change to:
1,2,3,4: /signed

2 - Yes
1, 3, 4 - No

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

Aye, those who voted Yes or No, perhaps could write something up about why you voted Yes or No?

Topics get buried fast nowdays.
This topic is less than a day old and it is already buried under the 4th page.
Forgive me for digging up this topic again.
I seek feedback from the public.

Any form of feedback, is much appreciated.
Cheers.

I posted this in another thread - but I think it belongs here.

I think they should include a new type of Faction that you earn from doing any PvP arena. Call it Hero Faction to go along with the theme for the Title <Rank Name> Hero. Use Hero's Faction to unlock PvP.

When they institute this, all Balthazar's Faction becomes Hero Faction and Balthazar's Faction starts at 0.

So you would have:

Hero Faction {Proposed for PvP}
[---------------------]

Balthazar's Faction
[---------------------]

Grenth's Faction {Proposed}
[---------------------]

Luxon Faction
[---------------------]

Kurzick Faction
[---------------------]

Updated the original post to include Dougal Kronik's suggestion.
Reviving this thread because I want more feedback from the members of this community.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

/signed

2: yes(the thing with the titles for kurzick/luxon faction redeemed)
the rest:
hmm... as long as u only get the rewards in fow and uw and balthasar thingie not any more in pvp id say its ok(but u should have to do 10+ quests to have enough faction for en ecto/shard)

Original topic updated to include the recent votes.

Thank you for replying.
Your feedbacks are invaluable and much appreciated.

Feedback, in any form, be it positive or negative, is much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers.

I think the accumulation of diety specific faction from quests should be enough so that if you completed all quests you would have enough to trade for 2 or 3 of whichever items are from that domain.

Example:
Complete all quests in the FoW, you would have enough Balthazar's Faction (under the new system) to trade for 3 Obsidian Shards.
Complete all quests in the UW, you would have enough Grenth's Faction (under the new suystem) to trade for 2 Globs of Ectoplasm.

Aye, actually I was thinking about a system which kinda works similiar to the current Kurzick / Luxon faction rewards guy.

For example:
1,000 Grenth's faction for a Glob of Ectoplasm
1,000 Balthazar's Faction for a piece of Obsidian Shard

I like these ideas. All of them... Except for earning faction for killing things in the underworld. That doesn't quite gel. After all, we don't gain faction for killing Luxons. And it is a bit too easy, even if the reward is miniscule.

But I /sign all 4.

You know, I've done some of those quests in UW (difficult to get people who are willing to do that, but I had guildies). They're actually quite challenging and fun quests. Those Illusionary Weapon ghosts hurt! Too bad I didn't pack my enchant removal.

Anyway, afterwards we talked about builds on how to do certain areas of UW... how about that? UW was actually made interesting rather than the boring farm techniques.

So that's a big yes for earning something for questing in these places.

Titles already exist for turning in Luxon and Kurzick faction: Friend of the Luxons/Kurzicks. You only get it for turning in faction for your alliance, and not for armor, but that seems OK to me. People can choose between working towards cool armor, or a cool title.

I like the idea of rewarding high-end questing with something other than XP. I like doing quests, but what am I going to do with my 80th skill point?

I don't see why UW and FoW quest rewards have to be tied to faction. Get rid of shards and ectos as random drops and make them quest rewards.

No, it should be 2,000 instead of 1,000 faction for both :|

Aye, agreed. I've made the adjustments to the first post.I envy ya, mate. I never really had the chance to do quest in the UW. Perhaps I should join your group some of these days, aye.Well, I guess that is the point of this thread, to promote players to actually do the many interesting quests in The Underworld, instead of going in there as a 2-man-team of of farmers.Aye, am glad that there is support for this idea.


Aye, I didn't know that when I started this thread. Perhaps I should remove those two?
How about the Balthazar's title? What do ya think of that one?Well, ya can keep em for future releases of Guild Wars, or attempt to learn all the skills on that character.Well, when we enter Balthazar's or Grenth's domain, the dialog box I read seems to imply that we are performing a service for either Balthazar or Grenth.

We earn Kurzick or Luxon faction by doing favours for them, fighting for them etc.
So I reckon it is reasonable that we earn Balthazar's or Grenth's Faction by completing quests in their domain.


Aye, that can do. If 1,000 is not suitable, then 2,000 might do just well.

1) I agree with this, i PvE and i PvP, so i have all sorts of factions and i love a few of the fow armors.

However i think the cost of shards should be MUCH higher than 1k balth faction per piece, since 1k balth faction is pretty easy to get for any serious PvPer, this of course being based on the fact that 1k Luxon faction = 1 Jadeite. I think a cost of 3k faction per shard (It costs 3k to unlock 1 elite) would be nice and should ONLY be redeemable while in FoW, because shards only drop in FoW.

A purely PvP player would have zero use for this however, and i doubt being located in FoW would matter to them.

2) Theres already Friend of the Luxon and Friend of the Kurzick titles at 250,000 faction points redeemed, so of course this idea makes sense!!

The balthazar faction title would certainly be more than welcome.

3) I like Grenth...hes funny, but i think that GW is setting up for future factions expansions ANYWAY, i mean look at how they divided up the Hero window. I dont know HOW you would properly earn grenth faction though.

4-5) /no Leaving balth faction as PvP only source gives players incentive to PvP. And im always for more PvE/PvP intergration and cause/effect ^_^

I like the idea of being able to spend Balthazaar faction on something repeatable like shards or ecto. That would fix one of my biggest frustrations with Prophecies and now Factions -- that being stuck at the Balthazaar faction cap, with everything unlocked, really kills my motivation to PvP.

I like the idea of the title too, but it would probably be pretty irritating for me since in Prophecies, and now also in Factions, I capped/trained/quested all the skills in PvE. That means my total Balthazaar faction got stuck much lower than most, since I maxed out and stopped earning so early. I'd imagine my true total is probably about double what the game records it as since I've done so much PvP without being able to earn faction.

Of course, on the off chance that the game really has been keeping a hidden tally of all that un-earned Balthazaar faction, and they patch my true total in I'd be thrilled. But I doubt it's possible.

Either way I'm in favor of adding a title though. The more titles the better .

no, balthazar faction should only be given to the PvP side of things. I dont see how the heck you correlated Fissure of woe being in the domain of Balthazar should mean you get Balthazar points.
Hey, maybe i should get Balthazar points for using the skills: "Balthazars Aura, Balthazars Spirit" too eh?

-_-;

/Signed
Would make Underworld a playeble area not just farmland

It better have a 5 quest/1 shard 8 quest /1ecto ratio or something close to it.

Polls:
========
Do you like these ideas and wish to see them implemented? Yes / No
1. Able to use Balthazar's Faction to redeem Obsidian Shards
Yes, because it is not like shards are that rare anymore anyway.
However, I would think the faction ought to be relatively hard to obtain, perhaps 5000 Balthazar faction per shard and 100 faction obtained per quest.

2. Earn titles based on amount of Balthazar's faction redeemed
Yes, why not. There is rank so why not Balthazar factions for frequent GvGers and Team arena people.

3. Addition of Grenth's Faction
Yes

4. Balthazar's Faction awarded in Fissure of Woe quests
Yes, because it is not farmable. It should be around 100 Balthazar per quest.

5. Current Balthazar's Faction change to Heroes Faction (PvP unlocks)
Leave it, because Balthazar is basically the god of warriors. Too many faction types would make it really cluttered.

1,000 is to easy

Why not make it 5,000?

With reference to the above screenshot taken yesterday, let's take the average market values of

1. Amber / Jadite ~ 2,000 gold
2. Obsidian Shards twice that amount ~ 4,000 gold
3. Globs of Ectoplasm twice again ~ 8,000 gold

Now, Amber / Jadite can be redeemed for 1,000 Kurzick / Luxon faction, based off the market values of the Shards and Ectos, I propose that:

2,000 Balthazar's Faction for x1 piece of Obsidian Shard
4,000 Grenth's Faction for x1 Glob of Ectoplasm

I feel that this would be a reasonable amount, not too low, not too high.

Regarding the quests rewards in Balthazar's or Grenth's Faction, 100 per quest is far too little, I suggest that the harder the quest, the more faction rewarded, ranging from 400 for easy quests, to 1,000 for harder quests.

As suggested by lyra_song, players can only redeem the Obsidian Shards and Globs of Ectoplasm in their respective realms.

Added your suggestion to the first post, aye. Anyway, would 2,000 suffice?

I have somewhat modified that idea, review and comment, aye.

Why, through quests rewards in Grenth's domain, of course.


First of all, when we enter the domain of Balthazar, the Fissure of Woe, we are doing a duty for Balthazar. We earn faction for helping the Kurzicks / Luxons, logically it would make sense that we earn faction for helping Balthazar resolving the issues in his domain.

No, I think it would be very silly if we earned Balthazar's Faction by using those 2 skills.


Agreed, that is the whole purpose of this thread, to make The Under World and the Fissure Of Woe into what they really are made for, a quest land, not a farmland.

Well, I was thinking of adopting a system simliar to the current Kurzicks / Luxons factions and quests that offers their respective factions. Refer to my reply at the top of this post.

I think 5,000 Balthazar's faction per shard is way too expensive, and 100 faction per quest is way too little. Balthazar's Faction earned from quest rewards should be based on how easy or hard that quest is, ranging from 400 for easy quests and up to 1,000 for harder quests.

I still think 100 per quest is too little. Should be based on difficulty of the quest.

2,000 Balthazar's Faction for x1 piece of Obsidian Shard and 4,000 Grenth's Faction for x1 Glob of Ectoplasm, how that sound to ya?