I was recently reading the thread about Assassins thinking they were tanks. It seems that everyone has varied opinions on tanking, and what professions can and can not make good tanks. I went to guildwiki's web site to look at their definition of the phrase, "to tank" (for the purpose of understanding my thread, if you have never done so, take a moment to look at their definition).
In terms of PvE play (I can not speak about PvP play; I don't play PvP, but plan to in the future), how many people truly "tank", given the definition of the phrase?
When I started in Prophecies, I remember facing small groups of 2-4 enemies at the time. My warrior would take the lead in the attack, the groups would fight, and (luck on your side), you emerge victorious.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont remember facing groups with healers in the 1st few missions in Post-searing.
Later, as you start to face larger groups of enemies-groups now consisiting of spell-casters and healers- you had to learn (I did, anyway, LOL), to think about how you were going to engage the enemy-- and I'm trying to think if this is where everyone's idea of "tanking" starts to differ.
If I was in a PUG, and we were doing a mission, I may get 2 types of instruction in a given situation:
--"tank, aggro the group and I'll drop (choose your best AoE spell) on 'em"
--"tank, get the monk 1st".
The people giving the instructions were NOT noobs, nor were they guildmates--it was a random PUG, which took a little time to discuss how to beat the mission, which, more often than not, we did.
Unless I was going into a mission that involved being set up as a stance tank (and the only 2 times I can really think about tanking, using guildwiki's definition, was FOW, doing the book trick before it was nerfed, and the gear trick in SF), I can't say that I've gone into a lot of mission (AT ALL) where I've been asked "to tank", by definition of guildwiki.
So, my question would be, should the definition of the phrase, "to tank", be modified?
I've been in a number of PUGs, on a number of missions, where I have been directed to attack specific targets 1st, like monks, or spellcasters. Likewise, I have been directed to engage the enemy frontlines before anyone else, giving my spellcasters time to drop their various goodies of AoE attacks on the enemy. Both methods work well (of course, this is dependent on the competency of everyone in the group, as well as the makeup of the enemy group we were attacking). Both methods work, and I'm wondering if that is enough to blur the definition of the phrase, according to guildwiki.
What do you think?
I'd also like to hear from the PvP players on this; does "tanking" using guildwiki's explanation, exist in PvP play? (I must say hear that I haven't played PvP in guild wars, though I have observed a number of matches). And how does "tanking" in PvP differ from "tanking" in PvE?
New Definition of Tanking?
Kern Wolf
mqstout
I interpret tanking as ability to take damage and [trying to] keep opponents focused on you/intercepting them before they get to other vulnerable targets.
It is quite possible for a protection monk to tank effectively, if only for a brief while.
It is quite possible for a protection monk to tank effectively, if only for a brief while.
Morgana
Not all warriors are tanks, but tanks are often warriors. I don't think the definition needs to be changed: I think people need to stop using "tank" as a synoym for "warrior", because they are not the same thing, and most warriors can't tank very well unless they have 2-3 very good monks focusing most of their attetion on 'em.
As for PvP, I have little experience with it, but I'm fairly certain tanking does not work at all, as players can choose who they attack instead of going after the first aggro bubble that touches them, and will tend to go after weaker targets such as monks.
As for PvP, I have little experience with it, but I'm fairly certain tanking does not work at all, as players can choose who they attack instead of going after the first aggro bubble that touches them, and will tend to go after weaker targets such as monks.
Viruzzz
tanking in PvP is comletely useless, energy spent on tanking means less damage, and anyone seeing a warrior using doylaks signet in RA will just turn and attack another one.
that said, there are monk build that work well, adn can do both healing and tanking. but usually they are easy to shut down, a monk wihtout energy is a dead monk
that said, there are monk build that work well, adn can do both healing and tanking. but usually they are easy to shut down, a monk wihtout energy is a dead monk
Gonzo
I firmly stand by that definition.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morgana
Not all warriors are tanks, but tanks are often warriors. I don't think the definition needs to be changed: I think people need to stop using "tank" as a synoym for "warrior", because they are not the same thing, and most warriors can't tank very well unless they have 2-3 very good monks focusing most of their attetion on 'em.
As for PvP, I have little experience with it, but I'm fairly certain tanking does not work at all, as players can choose who they attack instead of going after the first aggro bubble that touches them, and will tend to go after weaker targets such as monks. |
Tank = High Defense, Low Offense, defense buffs, stances
Fighter = High Offense, Low Defense, adrenal spiker, knocklock, conditions, etc
A proper tank knows about aggro control, how to bunch up enemies for better AOE spells, and basically doesnt do much damage.
noblepaladin
Sometimes people use "tank" for warrior. I think this is horrible because many newer player end up thinking they are "tanks" just because they are warriors. This is so wrong. A warrior is not good at taking damage at all! A warrior is the same as an elementalist with 20 more armor unless they have the right build, you might as well have an elementalist use ward against melee and stand in front of 4 enemy warriors, she would do much better. As someone said, MOST warriors cannot "tank" without 2 monks constantly healing them. A "tank" is character that is designed to absorb damage. The solo warrior IDS farming build is an example of a true "tank" build. It can survive attacks from 30 imps forever by constantly using healing signet while only taking 0-1 damage per attack, due to about +100 armor on top of the normal 80 armor from Dolyak, Watch Yourself, and Elemental Resistance. When I play a monk and there is a good "tank", the only thing I have to do is to remove conditions or hexes. The divine favor is over enough to keep the "tank" warrior alive. Only the degen or hexes actually hurt the "tank", because most of the other damage is absorbed by armor or avoid by stances. People should stop calling warriors "tanks" until they see that they actually have defensive skills.
The same goes for "nukers". When someone is looking for a "nuker" they are usually looking for an elementalist. Rarely do I seem them accept an Echo/Shatter Mesmer or a Barrage Ranger as a "nuker", although both of them are just as capable in dealing AoE damage.
The same goes for "nukers". When someone is looking for a "nuker" they are usually looking for an elementalist. Rarely do I seem them accept an Echo/Shatter Mesmer or a Barrage Ranger as a "nuker", although both of them are just as capable in dealing AoE damage.
Mordakai
It would be helpful if you posted wiki's definition here.
I can't access guildwiki at work.
I can't access guildwiki at work.
Cymboric Treewalker
Tanking = taking aggro and surviving. How you accomplish that does not matter. How much damage you dish out does not matter (as long as you hold aggro).
The nice part about Guild Wars, unlike the other MMOs I have played, is that a warrior can be a high-armor damage dealer or a traditional you can't hurt me "tank". Many MMOs restrict this to just being a you can't hurt me role.
Typically in PvP everyone goes after the "squishy" classes first... or the HIGH damage ones. Which is why some people "hide" certain classes behind another. A warrior who takes the off-hand item with +energy and uses monk skills (bad example because of the two pips regen, but I have seen people do this... Warriors are traditionally left until last).
The nice part about Guild Wars, unlike the other MMOs I have played, is that a warrior can be a high-armor damage dealer or a traditional you can't hurt me "tank". Many MMOs restrict this to just being a you can't hurt me role.
Typically in PvP everyone goes after the "squishy" classes first... or the HIGH damage ones. Which is why some people "hide" certain classes behind another. A warrior who takes the off-hand item with +energy and uses monk skills (bad example because of the two pips regen, but I have seen people do this... Warriors are traditionally left until last).
Cymboric Treewalker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by noblepaladin
Sometimes people use "tank" for warrior. I think this is horrible because many newer player end up thinking they are "tanks" just because they are warriors. This is so wrong. A warrior is not good at taking damage at all! A warrior is the same as an elementalist with 20 more armor unless they have the right build, you might as well have an elementalist use ward against melee and stand in front of 4 enemy warriors, she would do much better. As someone said, MOST warriors cannot "tank" without 2 monks constantly healing them. A "tank" is character that is designed to absorb damage. The solo warrior IDS farming build is an example of a true "tank" build. It can survive attacks from 30 imps forever by constantly using healing signet while only taking 0-1 damage per attack, due to about +100 armor on top of the normal 80 armor from Dolyak, Watch Yourself, and Elemental Resistance. When I play a monk and there is a good "tank", the only thing I have to do is to remove conditions or hexes. The divine favor is over enough to keep the "tank" warrior alive. Only the degen or hexes actually hurt the "tank", because most of the other damage is absorbed by armor or avoid by stances. People should stop calling warriors "tanks" until they see that they actually have defensive skills.
The same goes for "nukers". When someone is looking for a "nuker" they are usually looking for an elementalist. Rarely do I seem them accept an Echo/Shatter Mesmer or a Barrage Ranger as a "nuker", although both of them are just as capable in dealing AoE damage. |
I still remember the first Sorrows Furnace group I went with as a Mesmer (Echo Shatter Hex) - they doubted I could be a nuker... I told the Monk to not remove the hexes on the warrior.... BOOM dead enemies all around.
SpeedyKQ
I recently started a thread similar to this over in the PVE forum talking about calling targets vs. tanking.
A warrior can either hold the frontline (tank), or call and engage key targets, not both. When I'm pugging with my warrior, I try to ask the group which role they want me to perform. Sometimes I have to make it clear that I can't do both.
A warrior can either hold the frontline (tank), or call and engage key targets, not both. When I'm pugging with my warrior, I try to ask the group which role they want me to perform. Sometimes I have to make it clear that I can't do both.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker
Tanking = taking aggro and surviving. How you accomplish that does not matter. How much damage you dish out does not matter (as long as you hold aggro).
The nice part about Guild Wars, unlike the other MMOs I have played, is that a warrior can be a high-armor damage dealer or a traditional you can't hurt me "tank". Many MMOs restrict this to just being a you can't hurt me role. |
GLF Infusion War!
Lalita
Per request, the definition of a Tank from guildwiki.org
Noun: Tank
Tanks are well-protected front row party members whose role is to draw the enemy's attention (aggro) and attacks towards themselves as well as absorbing damage. They block their enemy's way and as such serve as meat shields for the spellcasters and ranged attackers in the back lines behind them. They usually engage foes with melee or PBAoE attacks.
Warriors are the most common form of tank, having the strongest armor against physical attacks of any profession. Warriors have many skills (especially in the Tactics line) to help minimize damage and hold the enemies' attention. Other professions need to be more creative to mitigate damage and so are less common on the whole.
[edit]Warrior Tanks
A tanking warrior will come equipped with defensive tactics to mitigate as much damage as possible. Typically, the warrior will charge the enemy and will focus mostly on engaging the frontline, keeping mobs attention off other characters in the back row. Tanks use shields, stances and, sometimes, secondary profession skills such as Protection Prayers to minimize damage inflicted upon them. They can take quite a long while to kill. Tanks can be used as booby traps using AoE spells that are centered on the caster such as Inferno or Shield of Judgement, but should avoid skills that do damage over time as enemy mobs will run away.
[edit]Other Tanks
Some professions, given the right set of skills and proper preparation, can tank for their parties in certain areas. In particular, Rangers, Monks and Elementalists possess in their skill set a number of skills that can be used to make them very resilient to damage. These builds are usually attuned to the monsters in certain explorable areas that do not possess the means to overcome them. When the enemy is highly variable (as is the case in PvP), non-Warrior professions become susceptible to facing counters designed specifically for their means of damage reduction. For example, monks and elementalists relying on enchantments to resist attacks will have problems against spells that remove enchantments.
Some popular non-warrior tanking builds include:
Invincible Monk
Invincimentalist
Using the expanded definition of "tank", it is also possible for pets and minions to tank for a team. This feature is used to great effect in the popular Barrage/Pet builds (most commonly found in the Tomb ruins) that lack any damage-absorbing player characters.
[edit]Notes
The antonym of a tank is a "squishy".
Some players use tank as a synonym for warrior. Therefore (confusingly) a tank need not necessarily be tanking.
[edit]Verb: to tank
Standing still and taking a beating from enemies instead of running away or kiting. Tanking is often used in PvE to make the healer's life easier (only one person to concentrate on). Tanking is especially effective in combination with Protection spells and stances.
It is important to be conscious of certain expectations while tanking:
Tank-on-Tank: This means that when assaulting an enemy group, the tanks should attract the aggro of the enemy melee fighters and keep it focused on themselves. Warriors who rush past the enemy warriors and head for the enemy spellcasters make bad tanks because they allow the enemy warriors to get to their spellcasters.
No running back: While tanking, warriors should not, when the going gets rough, run back with their tails between their legs. Instead, warriors should trust their monks and if concerned, they should run sideways and/or dodge. Pulling enemies into the heart of your spellcasters is a sure fire way to kill a few of them as well as get your monks in a panic which means they will not focus on healing you.
Keep tanks alive at all costs: A tank that has suffered multiple deaths and is running aroud with, say, 35% DP is of little use to the party in terms of tanking. The reduction to health greatly limits their ability to take damage. As a monk, if you have to choose between healing the tank and healing an elementalist, keep the tank alive. The elementalist can operate with 35% DP from the back if the tank is doing his job, the reverse is not true. A warrior who does not tank and instead rushes off to kill enemy spellcasters forfeits that privilege.
Prevention is better than treatment: With the exception of facing enemy mesmers who Shatter Enchantments, a group is best served by using Protection Prayers on their tanks (along with healing) than by just trying to spam healing on them. Protection allows the monks to control the amount of damage inflicted on tanks and protects from the unexpected hit that suddenly kills a tank.
Retrieved from "http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Tank"
Kite
From GuildWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
To kite means to run away with the aim of avoiding damage. Also called 'kiting' or 'kitting', kiting is not to be confused with simply just running - those fleeing from battle and not contributing are not kiting.
You may notice that kiters move in a kite-like shape when evading ranged attacks.
The origin of the term is hotly debated, with some claiming it lies in the acronym KIT, meaning 'killed in transit' whilst others claim the origin in the concept of a "Kite", an object trailing behind you on a line (in this case a mob being the kite, whilst the line takes the form of a ranged or magical attack) and is a carryover from the terminology of other MMORPGs. 'Kiting' in these other games describe hit and run tactics; it has since evolved to the current Guild Wars behavior of 'act and run'.
[edit]Effective Kiting
Effective kiting is dependent on skill recognition as well as recognition of profession limitations. Against warriors, spellcasters can be expected to run. However, a more effective means of kiting would be to sidestep (strafe) just outside the range of the weapon, as fleeing is a special designation that increase the likelihood of critical hits. This is less important since the last balance patch and the changes to Bull's Charge and Bull's Strike.
In addition, effective kiting also requires recognition of the ranges of skills appearing in the skill monitor and the requisite actions to avoid the range of effects, such as the range of PBAoE skills and skills like Earthquake and Chain Lightning.
Retrieved from "http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Kite"
Noun: Tank
Tanks are well-protected front row party members whose role is to draw the enemy's attention (aggro) and attacks towards themselves as well as absorbing damage. They block their enemy's way and as such serve as meat shields for the spellcasters and ranged attackers in the back lines behind them. They usually engage foes with melee or PBAoE attacks.
Warriors are the most common form of tank, having the strongest armor against physical attacks of any profession. Warriors have many skills (especially in the Tactics line) to help minimize damage and hold the enemies' attention. Other professions need to be more creative to mitigate damage and so are less common on the whole.
[edit]Warrior Tanks
A tanking warrior will come equipped with defensive tactics to mitigate as much damage as possible. Typically, the warrior will charge the enemy and will focus mostly on engaging the frontline, keeping mobs attention off other characters in the back row. Tanks use shields, stances and, sometimes, secondary profession skills such as Protection Prayers to minimize damage inflicted upon them. They can take quite a long while to kill. Tanks can be used as booby traps using AoE spells that are centered on the caster such as Inferno or Shield of Judgement, but should avoid skills that do damage over time as enemy mobs will run away.
[edit]Other Tanks
Some professions, given the right set of skills and proper preparation, can tank for their parties in certain areas. In particular, Rangers, Monks and Elementalists possess in their skill set a number of skills that can be used to make them very resilient to damage. These builds are usually attuned to the monsters in certain explorable areas that do not possess the means to overcome them. When the enemy is highly variable (as is the case in PvP), non-Warrior professions become susceptible to facing counters designed specifically for their means of damage reduction. For example, monks and elementalists relying on enchantments to resist attacks will have problems against spells that remove enchantments.
Some popular non-warrior tanking builds include:
Invincible Monk
Invincimentalist
Using the expanded definition of "tank", it is also possible for pets and minions to tank for a team. This feature is used to great effect in the popular Barrage/Pet builds (most commonly found in the Tomb ruins) that lack any damage-absorbing player characters.
[edit]Notes
The antonym of a tank is a "squishy".
Some players use tank as a synonym for warrior. Therefore (confusingly) a tank need not necessarily be tanking.
[edit]Verb: to tank
Standing still and taking a beating from enemies instead of running away or kiting. Tanking is often used in PvE to make the healer's life easier (only one person to concentrate on). Tanking is especially effective in combination with Protection spells and stances.
It is important to be conscious of certain expectations while tanking:
Tank-on-Tank: This means that when assaulting an enemy group, the tanks should attract the aggro of the enemy melee fighters and keep it focused on themselves. Warriors who rush past the enemy warriors and head for the enemy spellcasters make bad tanks because they allow the enemy warriors to get to their spellcasters.
No running back: While tanking, warriors should not, when the going gets rough, run back with their tails between their legs. Instead, warriors should trust their monks and if concerned, they should run sideways and/or dodge. Pulling enemies into the heart of your spellcasters is a sure fire way to kill a few of them as well as get your monks in a panic which means they will not focus on healing you.
Keep tanks alive at all costs: A tank that has suffered multiple deaths and is running aroud with, say, 35% DP is of little use to the party in terms of tanking. The reduction to health greatly limits their ability to take damage. As a monk, if you have to choose between healing the tank and healing an elementalist, keep the tank alive. The elementalist can operate with 35% DP from the back if the tank is doing his job, the reverse is not true. A warrior who does not tank and instead rushes off to kill enemy spellcasters forfeits that privilege.
Prevention is better than treatment: With the exception of facing enemy mesmers who Shatter Enchantments, a group is best served by using Protection Prayers on their tanks (along with healing) than by just trying to spam healing on them. Protection allows the monks to control the amount of damage inflicted on tanks and protects from the unexpected hit that suddenly kills a tank.
Retrieved from "http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Tank"
Kite
From GuildWiki
Jump to: navigation, search
To kite means to run away with the aim of avoiding damage. Also called 'kiting' or 'kitting', kiting is not to be confused with simply just running - those fleeing from battle and not contributing are not kiting.
You may notice that kiters move in a kite-like shape when evading ranged attacks.
The origin of the term is hotly debated, with some claiming it lies in the acronym KIT, meaning 'killed in transit' whilst others claim the origin in the concept of a "Kite", an object trailing behind you on a line (in this case a mob being the kite, whilst the line takes the form of a ranged or magical attack) and is a carryover from the terminology of other MMORPGs. 'Kiting' in these other games describe hit and run tactics; it has since evolved to the current Guild Wars behavior of 'act and run'.
[edit]Effective Kiting
Effective kiting is dependent on skill recognition as well as recognition of profession limitations. Against warriors, spellcasters can be expected to run. However, a more effective means of kiting would be to sidestep (strafe) just outside the range of the weapon, as fleeing is a special designation that increase the likelihood of critical hits. This is less important since the last balance patch and the changes to Bull's Charge and Bull's Strike.
In addition, effective kiting also requires recognition of the ranges of skills appearing in the skill monitor and the requisite actions to avoid the range of effects, such as the range of PBAoE skills and skills like Earthquake and Chain Lightning.
Retrieved from "http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Kite"
zulu123
As far as PvP is concerned there is no such thing as tanking. Humans are not pre-programmed to concentrate on fixed targets.
Traditionally (other games) for PvE a tank's job is to do the following:
1> Hold aggro on all mobs. You have to make sure they will concentrate on you and not the squishies (all kinds of casters and assasins too) of your party.
2> Absorb damage. You need defensive powers as well as healers to help you out on this.
But in guildwars point 1 is non-existent. There are no powers that will make the mobs angry towards you. Aggro is hard-coded in two ways, (a)you will aggro stuff the minute they are in your aggro bubble AND (b) mob AI chooses squishies over a warrior if both of them are in their aggro radius. This is the first game I have seen where tanks have no way of aggro management.
The only way to 'manage' aggro in this game is completely in the hands of the squishies. The only thing they can do is make sure never to get the mobs into your aggro bubble. But most players are not smart enough to realize this anyways. And even if they do.. its pretty hard to achieve.
Traditionally (other games) for PvE a tank's job is to do the following:
1> Hold aggro on all mobs. You have to make sure they will concentrate on you and not the squishies (all kinds of casters and assasins too) of your party.
2> Absorb damage. You need defensive powers as well as healers to help you out on this.
But in guildwars point 1 is non-existent. There are no powers that will make the mobs angry towards you. Aggro is hard-coded in two ways, (a)you will aggro stuff the minute they are in your aggro bubble AND (b) mob AI chooses squishies over a warrior if both of them are in their aggro radius. This is the first game I have seen where tanks have no way of aggro management.
The only way to 'manage' aggro in this game is completely in the hands of the squishies. The only thing they can do is make sure never to get the mobs into your aggro bubble. But most players are not smart enough to realize this anyways. And even if they do.. its pretty hard to achieve.
Fitz Rinley
Tanking in PvP appears to meat the description as I read it.
Tanking in general means to close witht he enemy, play bullet stopper, block incoming from your artillery. With the assassin class the tank may no longer be required to fist focus on enemies like the gnashers, heretics, and monks.
Tanks have always been given the special target job because they could get in close and see the opponent. Casters are often unable to click on a specific opponents quickly and easily because there are too many names/bodies in the way.
Fitz
PS. A current problem is the IM screen. Larger letters for reading and targetting would help some, but not at the expense of losing the field of view. If you enlarge the text you also enlarge the IM and menus, causing a severe restriction on space to click to excape. The lettering for naming players and monsters in the general field needs to be on a different setting menu than the one for lettering and specific menu sizes.
Tanking in general means to close witht he enemy, play bullet stopper, block incoming from your artillery. With the assassin class the tank may no longer be required to fist focus on enemies like the gnashers, heretics, and monks.
Tanks have always been given the special target job because they could get in close and see the opponent. Casters are often unable to click on a specific opponents quickly and easily because there are too many names/bodies in the way.
Fitz
PS. A current problem is the IM screen. Larger letters for reading and targetting would help some, but not at the expense of losing the field of view. If you enlarge the text you also enlarge the IM and menus, causing a severe restriction on space to click to excape. The lettering for naming players and monsters in the general field needs to be on a different setting menu than the one for lettering and specific menu sizes.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zulu123
The only way to 'manage' aggro in this game is completely in the hands of the squishies. The only thing they can do is make sure never to get the mobs into your aggro bubble. But most players are not smart enough to realize this anyways. And even if they do.. its pretty hard to achieve.
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One trick i like to use is to use AOE traps.
Front line: Tanks
Second line: Ranger traps
Third line: Casters and ranged attacks.
The traps behind the warrior will trigger if any melee class runs past into the caster line. Usually the AOE chases them away and back towards the warrior. But this takes preparation and proper use of terrain.
CKaz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Yup! In fact in most MMORPGs, you cant go around buying 10 sets of armor with differing roles for different purposes. Not to mention you can rebuild your attributes for free. Guild Wars is truly the best when it comes to this sort of multipurposeness.
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Fondly remembers putting full backpacks into storage in EQ
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CKaz
And possibly the absolute worst across the board for giving us storage for it.
Fondly remembers putting full backpacks into storage in EQ |
Dove_Song
{{{{Tank-on-Tank: This means that when assaulting an enemy group, the tanks should attract the aggro of the enemy melee fighters and keep it focused on themselves. Warriors who rush past the enemy warriors and head for the enemy spellcasters make bad tanks because they allow the enemy warriors to get to their spellcasters.}}}
Read it ...learn it....use it
Read it ...learn it....use it
Kern Wolf
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dove_Song
{{{{Tank-on-Tank: This means that when assaulting an enemy group, the tanks should attract the aggro of the enemy melee fighters and keep it focused on themselves. Warriors who rush past the enemy warriors and head for the enemy spellcasters make bad tanks because they allow the enemy warriors to get to their spellcasters.}}}
Read it ...learn it....use it |
As I've stated before, in quite a few PUGs I've been in, I've often been DIRECTED BY THE SPELLCASTERS to go after the enemy spellcasters (i.e., enemy monks, Mesmers, Elementalists; and now, in Factions, Ritualists). My spellcasters may hold back a bit, then join in when the enemy melee fighters turn to protect THEIR spellcasters.
Your definition was what I followed through the early parts of Prophecies; when the enemy groups got larger, and were rounded out with spellcasters of their own, it seemed (to me, at least), that my first target wouldnt necessarily be the melee fighters.
I've often thought that part of this was due to the spellcasters being able to better protect themselves for a time; in that instance, I made every effort to kill the enemy spellcasters as quickly as possible, then come back and deal with the enemy melee fighters.
I've also seen other professions take the lead in aggro-ing the enemy, but that normaly happened when we were trying to control the number of enemies we wanted to fight at one time. They were often able to last long enough (without dying) while the PUG would deal with the aggroed enemy fighters.
At that point, I had wondered if "tanking" was taking on a new definition...
eudas
They make great damage-dealers, though.
Hot tank-on-tank action FTW...
eudas
Hot tank-on-tank action FTW...
eudas
unienaule
I would have to say that just because they are spellcasters does NOT mean they know what they are doing.
Dove_Song
if your team feel s they can soak up the melee damage and direct you to go after the spell castors....your not a "tank" anymore.....you've just become a "damage dealer".
The definition does not need to change, becuse you are no longer "tanking".
The definition does not need to change, becuse you are no longer "tanking".
Swinging Fists
Now that we have Assassins, the Assassins should go right past the enemy melee to take out the spell casters while the Warriors tank the melee fighters.
Zexion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by noblepaladin
Sometimes people use "tank" for warrior. I think this is horrible because many newer player end up thinking they are "tanks" just because they are warriors. This is so wrong. A warrior is not good at taking damage at all! A warrior is the same as an elementalist with 20 more armor unless they have the right build, you might as well have an elementalist use ward against melee and stand in front of 4 enemy warriors, she would do much better. As someone said, MOST warriors cannot "tank" without 2 monks constantly healing them. A "tank" is character that is designed to absorb damage. The solo warrior IDS farming build is an example of a true "tank" build. It can survive attacks from 30 imps forever by constantly using healing signet while only taking 0-1 damage per attack, due to about +100 armor on top of the normal 80 armor from Dolyak, Watch Yourself, and Elemental Resistance. When I play a monk and there is a good "tank", the only thing I have to do is to remove conditions or hexes. The divine favor is over enough to keep the "tank" warrior alive. Only the degen or hexes actually hurt the "tank", because most of the other damage is absorbed by armor or avoid by stances. People should stop calling warriors "tanks" until they see that they actually have defensive skills.
The same goes for "nukers". When someone is looking for a "nuker" they are usually looking for an elementalist. Rarely do I seem them accept an Echo/Shatter Mesmer or a Barrage Ranger as a "nuker", although both of them are just as capable in dealing AoE damage. |
Additionally, there is a shield. 16 armor. And quite often, I, and a few warriors I know, use Watch Yourself!
That's 136 armor vs physical. Then comes -2 damage from a single piece of knight, which all good warriors know to have. And likely -2 conditional shield. And -2 or -3 on chest. So, -6 damage and 136 Armor. Let's do the math.
The formula for the % of damage you take with x AL is this:
Damage%=2^((60-x)/40)*100
Let's insert 136.
Damage%~=26,79%
That makes you take almost only 1/4 of the damage.
So you take damage*0,2679-6 damage per attack as a warrior.
And let's look at the ele, with 60 armor (vs phys).
The formula gives Damage%=100%
And eles have no damage reduction.
So they take the exact damage done to them. And even when they use Armor of Earth (at 12 Earth Magic), they only gain 60 armor. 120 armor halves damage. So the warrior takes almost half the damage of an ele using Armor of Earth, minus 6.
So yes, a warrior is VERY GOOD at tanking damage.
_Zexion
MMSDome
assassains arent really tanking, they bascially are running in front of a squad of marines naked getting shot at.