With veteran players it is apparent that Factions is a failure.

OK then... *yawn* im so tired. I think I've spent more time on these forums in the past few days than I have in Factions :P.

The only whiners that really annoy me are the ones that repeat the same thing over and over...(need to learn to buggery read other threads) those are the whiners that are somehow leading to an anti-whiner movement group that supports Anet unconditionally. Other whiners I dislike are ones that complain about a problem, discuss the future downfall of Anet, and then a whole herd of sheep come in and take it out of proportion. The last group of bad whiners, complain about the desertion of areas, by which the logical answer is (and has been repeated many times... once again - ) wait a while for people to get there first.

On the flipside, the real whiners (sorry, cant find a more sutable word, but I dont mean it as an offense^^), the ones who have closely analised the game and compared it to it's elder game of prophecies, those are the whiners that Anet should be listening to.

This group is very important for iunfluencing change, without it, Anet effectively loses people, because the errors arent being recognised, people see them, deter themselves away from them (seeing as they don't/can't complain) and quite possibly leave the game altogether. Don't be shocked to find that it was whiners who held great influence to some of the really cool features that have arised in Factions^^. They state errors in quests, faults in NPC characters and Henchman, spelling mistakes, re-development of existing features, etc.

And of course, the reason why they aren't as effective as the ought to be, you have another group, the anti-whiners group I mentioned before, saying "quit your whining".

Note: whining against whiners, is whining.

Anet already knows thay've made a good game, so anyone posting a thread of congratulations isn't going to help them develop the game... except... perhaps to provide a 2% morale boost. I am sure if Anet wants to keep their popular fan base, they'll read the highlited threads by the moderators, or threads that have a large interest, and they will work on it.... hopefully.

To the poster from before, if you don't know what people are complaining about.... just a simple cure... read!

Concepts of Chapter 3? same as what influenced chapter 2... whiners^^.

Think of it more like buying a pizza, and getting it cold, I think that applies to Factions.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kurt. 14% of people know that.

2 things........

Firstly, I think that a lot of the most recent faction bashing is due to the distrubition of CE....lots of people (me included) complained A LOT about it on many different threads. This would probably up the number of unhappy people threads.

Secondly, since I have not HAD my copy of factions to play I have spent most of the last week on this forum.....my join date is when I encountered a problem that guildwiki was unable to resolve and I had to seek alternate sources of information....so many people may not even be aware of this site, meaning that a great many guildwars players maynot even know about forums or such to contribute to/complain on. I believe those who post are a very small part of the gw community.

My two points. (and my CE is set to arrive today--1 day ahead of the ups set delivery date but must go to work now )

That 2% morale boost may be just what they need to kill the development boss "Togo the Snared" and cap "Remove Bugs."

On a more serious note, the only issue I've had so far are the bugs with some of the missions (like the oh-so-carefully referenced one above). TBH, I expected some of these kind of bugs, because they happen with every new release. Please don't speak for "all vets."

Quoted for truth, loss of 2 slots and storage to boot for vets on link, while '100%' is not true either, there are a lot of restrictions Cantha/Tyrian. I thought 100% meant I could have a Ritualist work up the ranks with my wife's character post pre-sear in Ascalon. Nope, mission(s) denied. Similiarly Tyrians doing early Cantha. Co-op missions oddly enough deny cooperative opportunities, my Tyrian warrior couldnt help Canthan guild members fight in VSquare - they have a 'local' mission, I a 'foreign' one.

Elite missions wont play out at all well (trust us... indeed) and they even goof up IMO the easy stuff (12v12 alliance battles where you cant talk to your allied groups... uh huh). Bugs have been bad and connectivity horrible.

They come up with some interesting art and stuff to try but execution this round has been abysmal. Alliances not working at release - they work now? I know some guilds still havent 'lost enough opposing faction' to pick a side from what they gained in the FPE. Fun stuff.

So I'm enjoying what I can for this chapter, but I need to see problems ironed out, some help on storage, something done about auction/trade system, and just some smart moves to remotely consider a chapter 3 they'll want to try and push on me come the holidays. [After considering a $20 buyback for 2 character slots and meanwhile giving those CErs who coughed up an extra $20 an easy 500K+ in game if they wish to trade the dragon.]

/shrug

I don't mind simple fedex quests; in fact, I prefer quests that only take 10-15 minutes over those that take an hour because then I can fit a quest in before I go to work or when I only have a half hour to play.

What I can't stand is quests that make me fight through an area I've just cleared. The zone to A, then back to B, then back to A problem, and too many quests in Factions are like that. I'd prefer zone to A, zone to B, then zone to C. There's nothing more discouraging than fighting your way through mobs for twenty minutes, reaching the next NPC, and having him tell you that to get to your next goal, you have to rezone and fight through the same mobs you just fought through. That's not fun at all.

One of my characters has reached the point where she has to acquire 10,000 faction for either the Luxons or Kurzick. I hardly played her over the weekend because the first few faction quests were like the ones I've described, and I just couldn't face doing more. I've already decided that I'm taking one of my characters over to Tyria right away and not bothering with the Canthan stuff until later. Canthan PvE gets boring in a hurry. I loved the starter island--thought it was really well done. The outdoor areas are beautiful everywhere. But PvE boils down to just throwing mob after mob after mob at you, IMO, and it's made more frustrating and tedious by patrols that cross each other and enemies that appear out of nowhere, making it very difficult to control aggro no matter how you try. Someone said there's a fine line between challenging and just plain frustrating/tedious/just not fun, and too much of Factions falls into the latter category for me. YMMV.

I think it would be a better representation of the figures if you counted each individual post

and also how many times they posted on each and every complaint thread.

and if they couldnt find one they start one.

a very small very vocal minority

What do YOU classify as a "vet?" Is it someone who has been playing cein release? Someone who has been in the top teams for HA/GvG? Well, If thats what you classify it as, I consider myself a "vet."

My opinion on factions is that I am LOVING it, the PvE is 100x better than Prophecies, the missions/quests are more challenging, AND the PvP is better as well(cept Dual Smite, grrrr). Anyways, GJ Anet.

Veteran players have been playing the same 9 Tombs maps ad infinitum since Guild Wars came out. We're talking hundreds and hundreds if not thousands and thousands of times on the same 9 maps.

Instead of adding new maps, arenas, and content for Chapter 2: Anet instead just copy and pasted Chapter 1's PVP content into Chapter 2.

So of course most veterans are going to get bored with that. You can only replay the same 9 maps so many thousands of times before they grow stale.

So, on the basis of whining users on a forum a game is declared a hit or a miss now?

EVERY change to GW so far has resulted in tons of complaints and they ALWAYS outnumber the praise by at least 5-1.
Take a look how much complaining there was over Sorrow's Furnace, chests, the various skill rebalances, the whining over farming & running etc etc.

Just because you read on the Internet doesnt make it true, everyone I know in GW loves Factions and my wife and myself are enjoying GW more then ever before.

So you're talking about Tombs PvP vets, not all vets. I've been PvE playing for about a year and feel I qualify, at least in part, as a vet in the PvE world. distinctions need to be made, imo.

I agree, although the title of this thread is vague so it seems fitting to answer both ways.

I think most of us who are honest with ourselves can agree that Factions skimped on both PVE and PVP content.

QFT. Surprised nobody else saw this and commented on it. Whatever you're personal opinion is, you can't really know whether or not other people hate/like Factions. I'm thinking of starting a thread (which will probably get closed by mods due to the high-probability of flaing) to settle once and for all how GwG users feel about Factions itself. Not the changes to the MM, or anything like that. Just Factions. A poll would make it final.

I can't say that as of yet on the PvE side... I started my assassin during the 24 hour early launch and just now got him to Cavalon. That's playing every day and doing quests like crazy. I still haven't gotten all the quests done, but with they had a title for that... still, I've found PvE to be very very full so far, and now I've stepped back into daylight!

And have a whole new battery of quests to do at Cavalon.

Both sides are idiots for claiming that "vets" love/hate the game. How the hell would you know either way? How could you possibly know what all or even most of the vets like unless you know them personally or some sort of GW wide poll was conducted? How would you know that someone was a vet unless you could tell how long they've been playing GW?

Making claims on either side of this issue about what vets like/hate is idiotic.

/QFT as almost all vets are playing the game not bitching on a board

Pretty much the same here - I think you summed that up for me pretty nicely, thanks.

^^ I agree with Iskrah's comment too. However, the new skills haven't had enough time to affect PvP. There's going to be some settling out before people decide which skills are PvP worth. Plus we have two new classes so that's another variable.

Personally, I've been using two new necro skills in PvP with great effect. I just need to sit down and work out how I might use more of the new Factions skills. I

People dislike change.

its easy why there are more 'whining' threads than positive threads.

When you buy a game, you EXPECT it to be good, when you feel like the game is rubbish you feel you got ripped off and you want to complain about that. When its all running flawless without any struggling you think: Yes, this is just what i expected!

And most likely you see bad things faster than the good

Yes, I agree.

Change is neither good, or bad, it is what it is.

However, when a change is implemented that will be regarded as a negative, it would be nice to have it counterbalanced with a change that would be regarded as positive.

Case in point: the AoE nerf. I witnessed a great deal of people who simply quit because of that update.

While change is inevitable, the rate, and quantity, of changes is what concerns me. In my opinion, I have seen too many changes made at the same time in this game, resulting in only what can be described as a clusterf#ck.

There is an old saying: Festina Lente(Make haste slowly).

From a veteran player: It was the same when prophecies first came out, the betas started/ended....and every change that has ever been made...ever.

And the people who quit, threatened to quit over such a minor change are idiots.

Sorry, didn't really read every reply...


Nothing is going to be perfect, so there's always going to be negative comments afloating. Especially since a game that has been operating for a year, each veteran player is going to have their own expectations, and most of them, won't be met.

And yeah as people have mentioned, positive comments are not usually expressed with words, but through action (players continuously tweaking). A lot of members here seem to actively complain and hopefully make an impact to the game... and some just want the attention and point out something so miniscule. When I read the forums, I prefer reading complaints in a neutral suggestion (to hopefully turn the negative into positive) form rather than bitching and whining (annoying and unintelligent).


As for me, I do have some complaints about Factions, but nothing worth posting about. I'm enjoying the most parts of the game and ignoring the bad parts for the time being (except for glitches and bugs ).

Sorry for not taking the time to read this whole thread, but I had to reply to this.

Prophecies had 1+ yrs. to develop. Factions has half that time, if that much, to fix itself up. If anet is cranking out games like this every 6 months, they should be damned well near where prophecies is or close to it or else it's not even worth buying them because they will take at least that long to rectify. Not good strategies.

NOTE THIS

there are TWO TEAMS working a staggered output of 1 year every 6 months.

FACTIONS was started at the release of GW and has 1 year of work.

chapter 3 was started by the second team 6 months later and will be released in oct/nov again with a full year of work.

It's a little over a week and a half after launch, give it some time.

If you had read some of the interviews on gamespot and other similar sites, you'd know that there are 2-3 dev teams working on chapters. Each overlap each other. An example is below in my bad ascii art. Dotted lines represent dev periods.

all overlapping somewhat like that. Each row represents a single dev team with the GW:P team moving on to create GW:4 while GW:F team starts on GW:5 and the GW:3 team keep working on GW:3.

- I recall the holy rants and spitting rages over the AoE nerf from a few months back.

-People don't like to see changes unless it fits into their view of what should be changed and how, it is invading their comfort zone of a game that a lot of them are very wrapped up in, and is viewed as an imposition.

-Personally, I have Factions, but am now back Tyria trying to finish bonuses, and finding that many places are quite empty, which is sad. Even ToA only has 2 or 3 districts, even when we have favor, so people must have gone over there and are enjoying it.

Geez. The game has been out only a little over a week.

1) When Prophecies came out, there was no A.net benchmark to compare to, unless you count Diablo. With Factions, we'd already become accustomed to something more beautiful, more developed and in a better gaming format (instancing, reduced griefing, etc). It's hard to top the way they raised the bar at that time.

2) With Factions, they could have just as easily just simply come up with a new map, new skills, new pets and left it at that, but the fact is, they developed new concepts (12x12 Alliance battles, co-operative missions) and made developmental changes based on what the fanbase is asking for (i.e. discouraging running, introducing promising Mesmer skills that might help them finally get them into PvE parties once people get a sense of what they can do, making areas much less vulnerable to solo farming, etc).

Change will always get complaints. At first. Give it time, and see what people grow to like, as well as what A.net sees fit to change. It wouldn't surprise me if they institute something so that the locked door phenomenon will later only apply to your first Canthan and/or Tyrian character.

One week. Geez.

its a new game its bound to be hecktick, as it is. You will never succeed at making a game perfect, let alone on the first try. The companies controlling the game could never have noticed everything that was wrong, the community has, the game is good. And it will be better because they will update what they missed. Dont give up on them now!

You're definition of a major or minor change is what? The number of updates released that day? The AoE AI update changed aggro control methods, killing methods (destroyed what little offensive ability the smiting monk had), and strategy in general.

The problem with change in Guild Wars is that the most drastic ones are not brought on gradually, they are magicked out of thin air when beta changes to release so that people think somethnig will work one way, and that is why they liked the game, it is entirely changed and works a completely different, unrelated way.

the only ont thats ignorent here is you for taking what I said out of context.

did I say people couldnt complain or state their opinion? no

I was being on topic, and the topic was that with all these people complaing that there would be few people palying fations. I stated that even the people that complain will stil be playing, and people you hear saying they wont paly till changes are made, are the same ones that still appear online regularly to play.

bah, this game is good..just some stupid kids found out that their favourite builds are nerfed or they cannot suit to the changes made to the game..hence, the rant..i hate it when those stupid rants cause ppl to avoid playing the game..well, i just really hope that anet will view these rants in a positive way and improve the game..and btw, those who threatens to quit the game..i think they are total idiots..well, if you cannot find yourself suit to the gameplay, go quit and buy another game..=P..

The Guild Hall has had "sour" people for a very long time. It somes with being a veteran, and is particularily abundunt where you won't get attempted shot down by newbies who've only played for a month.

People just get naturely tired of things, even if there's "new content" (which is still the same game though, hence nothing surprizing). The negative aspect (s) of the game just grow and fester.

Other things might be a bit from changes... all the changes from Factions, and/or any updates they've done; like people have said.

Particularily with Factions, people might have had different expectations. I consider this least-probabble of the main problem though, as there's been boredom/dissatisfaction for the game even since release, and when UAS was removed, etc.

Plus, it's always easier to criticize than to complement. That's probably the reason why there is an alarming number negative threads.

When a player likes a certain element in the game and decides to create a thread on the subject, not much can be added, really.

Example -
Thread : I love how -insert skill- complements my ability to work with my team!
Response : Yes, very cool
Response 2 : Yes, it does help out my team
Response 3 : haha I can't believe you use dat skll
Response 4 : Um..sure!

Now, there isn't much to add, is there?

A thread with a negative mood within it's original post makes it much easier to pull out opinions of others.

Example - WOW Y DOES THIS GAME KEEP GETTING NURFED
Original Post - OMG WHY! BUFF IT MORE PLX. BRING BACK FARMING
Response 1 - Then people would abuse it!
Response 2 - *insert intelligent response, countering the original post*
Response 3 - No, I think you're wrong, here's why.
Response 4 - I LIKE BOXES
Response 5 - *more intelligent responses*

Although the formation of threads and responses may not be accurate, you can see that it does prove the point that I mentioned about criticism and positive feedback.

I suppose we all have to live with it. Somehow, I feel I have strayed off topic.

One thing is that just because there are complaints it isn't really a negative.

A good possibility one or two of those complaints came from me, but none are really game shattering. I don't like that Elite missions are pretty much inaccessable to guilds of one person (like myself) and I've complained about some of the glitches (bad healer hench - now fixed, just wrote a complaint about a hench bug in Vizunah). I also don't like that I have to be partnered with people on co-op mission, I like all henchies (I can't take my time, do stupid things, and others unless I want a bunch of people angry with me).

But I still, over all, like the game. Most of my complaints will be fixed in time, at least I hope. The ones that aren't? Eh - no games perfect. Some, like all hench co-ops, may only be me and a small handful want them so no go. Some like the Elite mission's exclusions may be intentional and not care. Then again - it may not. Heck, I really like prophecies and will have a blast with my assassin in tyria until the bugs I need fixed are done.

I rather suspect that most acting like they will RageQuit will still be here in a few months. Not really anyplace else to go to get thier way - pretty much every other game is the same or worse in 95% of the complaints.

Personal observations about the GW series as it is now:

-The players are far more active in the forums then most other games I've played. So it might be a better measure of community disposition then normal.

-As it goes with positivity, just because people don't post it doesn't mean they're not unhappy with it. It's a two edge sword in that regard. (if that didn't make sense I can try and reword it)

-People anticipated GW: Prophecies with mild attention, we all figured it was another RPG. The thing that made this whole situation of the "angry community" possible began there. Let me explain:

When GW: Proph. came out people were wowed. We'd never had such a great game for so little money. It was fresh and fun, and A.net acted like a company that gave a damn about its players and their wishes. They set a very high bar of standards among the community.

Therein lies the problem. When people were suggesting things for Factions, there were certain things we said we'd like to see, and more importantly things that we said we didn't want. As time went on and rumors began, people became a bit concerned with what they were hearing. They tried to remind A.Net what not to do, and asked for things to be clearer. A.net told us to wait. Having faith, we waited, allowing and hoping A.Net would wow us again.

Well....they wowed us alright. By doing everything we told them not to do. And now, being shocked, and angry, we demanded action. But there has been silence. The one thing a game community HATES, will not tolerate, is the unnessessary testing of the standards they and the company set for the game/series.

A.Net set a very high bar....then they tried to walk under it....big mistake.

I would agree with your post, or people that were speaking up about rpg got band or wore told not to say any thing now. now pve players are really mad at the content of the game. Now you are seeing pve players upset for the first time. they are now speaking out in all of the fourms.


It is just not in this fourm but all of the fourms. there is alot of people unhappy with factions.

The people that like it are playing it mostly. Those that don't are complaining on forums. Of course you are going to see more complaints than comments. People that like it will pop in, say they are having a blast, and go back to playing. People complaining will make post after post after post that the game sucks. Just going by forum threads isn't a really good way to guage the games reception.