How to fix the intro without tossing away a months worth of work

Players start off in a solo area with difficult monsters, 5~ skills that go together nicely, 1 profession, and 10 stats. The point of this area will be to test a gamers skill level, as Anet rewards skill and not time played (supposedly). The area will be difficult, you'd need a lot of GW experience to play through it, and it should be geared towards each class dynamically (ie: a pri monk can't heal anything to death, so the difficulty should come from keeping himself and an npc alive, where as ie: an elem should be able to nuke monsters while balancing nrg levels). The time frame for this area should be 20 minutes, during this time frame, if all goes well, the player will pick up his 2ndary, 3 skills to go with it, and be tp'd out of the old ascelon area, and into the first mission. It should also unlock all the towns, and all the PvP places on their map, as this is a high skilled player, one who's probably played GW a lot, they shouldn't have to go through the missions again to get to towns.

If the player dies at any time during this test, they get tp'd to old aselon and begin the existing tutorial mode, as it's been deemed they are not familiar with GW enough to skip past all the PvE.

To sum it up: Test a players skill level and knowledge of the game for 20 minutes, if they pass give them everything they need to tweak a char as fast as possible, if not ship them off to noob camp.

except that a new player isn't going to have any skill, this area is more meant for teaching than testing.

I agree with Aladdar.

The real solution is to make available a level 3 character on creation like the old level 1 characters. You start in Seared Ascalon, can choose primary AND secondary professions, and have the basic skill set and equipment (including a belt pouch!). One thing I'd change though is the base skill/item loadout for a few of the professions. Let Warriors choose the weapon they want to use and set skills/starting weapon appropriately. Same with Elementalists (magic school). The reason for level 3 is because that level is easily achievable in Old Ascalon with minimal time. Just doing the secondary profession quests and getting yourself a belt pouch will rank you to level 3.

The hitch is that the account must have a character that has gone through Old Ascalon already before you can choose this as a starting character option. This way, the "starter grind" (as some people have called it) is minimized to only have to be required once per account.

Fix it? It's broken? What you're describing would likely alienate new players. Just tossing them some skills, a secondary profession, and throwing a bunch of monsters at them? What about when they die before they even figure out how to attack? I can't imagine anything that'd be more disheartening, especially if they get "deemed" shite for failing. I like the laid back atmosphere of pre-Searing Ascalon, it eased my friends in gently and we had a blast exploring and grabbing our skills. Clearly all you want to do is fight other players, so just head to the Academy as quick as you can. Ask Arena to implement a system where you have the option to skip the pre-Searing bit once you've cleared it with one character. But don't replace it and toss new players into a hopeless battle.

Oh, and unlocking every area just because you can win a single fight? Again, if it bothers you so much ask Arena to implement travelling somewhere on one character unlocking it across your account, and even that seems pushing it. A lv1 character in Ventari's? You're insane, man! Insane!

and come on, it took me what, an hour to get through pre searing ascalon. I didn't explore or anything, just ran through to get to seared ascalon. It's not like it's that much of a grind.

I have to agree, Although i'd love this kind of feature as it allows most of us who are familiar with the game to skip the ho-hum parts that we arent interested in, the truth is probably that it would alienate some first time players, and even further, this kind of idea caters to only a small portion of the community really, since only very few of their target audience are as informed as we are.

I'd rather just have it that you go through the stuff once, and then you are able to skip it later with subsequent characters on your account.

I found this new "tutorial" far worse than the old tutorial where you are given spells and guided through a linear thing and told to go get a weapon then go do this then when stuff is going on it will tell you what skill to use, this was a much more guess what you need when you need it. The majority of the time, the use prompts didn't come up until far after they were needed

As I said in another thread, I brought two brand new gamers to test the area, both adult women. I could safely say that if they were put through a test off the bat that after dying you'd have lost them both as customers before they ever got to the teaching part - yet both loved the new area in every way.
I took one to Tombs after a few hours of play, and you can guess the outcome.

Brand new gamers need a slow gaining progression that allows them to understand the world and warm up to it, throwing them into the pot might work for a young male, but certainly not for everyone.
I believe the area needs more pop-up confirmations, and more tutorials - some text, and some quest.

For an alternative to those who don't want the tutorial, it was suggested that you could immediatley go to the Academy, and there choose your 2nd prof and basic skills. This seems like both an ideal and simple solution to the two sides of those who want action first, and those who need it slow off the start.

A quick run through of the original training course would be far better than the way it has been changed to, then you can enter into newbie area, this way you would have to give people their starting skills though so that would have to be worked around, i guess you could have the people talk to trainers who would give them skills and then point to creatures and tell them what to use, this in the tutorial. Training course, then n00b land, then "real world".

It's obvious you didn't read what the man said. I like the idea, but it needs some serious polish. Basically, when you start a character you go into some area and if you don't pass the test (i.e. Newbie), you are sent to the newbie learning area (which also needs some serious polish). If you complete the task, you get to mvoe on and have all the locations revealed to you as you have been through the game before.

However, I don't like the idea for the simple fact that I feel there is a better way to go about it.

- Make the map account based. If one character has explored there, the rest have (option to turn off).

- Make it so if one character has a level 20 character already, the rest start at level 15 (option to turn off).

The reason the first two have options to turn things off is for those who really like Roleplaying or PvE. Roleplaying wouldn't fit well if others had eyes for you and you gained skill by being related to someone else who was skilled, and for PvE players they can keep doing it all over again.

Dropping newbies into a situation completely over their head is a great way to turn people away from the game before they even get started.

This is the *newbie* area. Design it appropriately. If someone wanted to skip that content and just PvP, the option was sitting right there at character creation.

Peace,
-CxE

I don't like the idea of "testing" players right off the bat. The good thing is, you don't need to! Just use the academy as your test center. Make it so you can go there right off the bat to be "tested" or go through everything in old ascalon as long as you want. Expand the academy to have some pve, pvp, and the ability to get some skills and a second profession without having to do extra quests. If you pass the academy's tests the world ends and you get to the rest of the game. Otherwise you need to keep playing in old ascalon until you level enough or know the game well enough to pass the tests. Essentially just expand the academy to allow you to get skills and a second profession there, warn the player very clearly that once you commit you will never see old ascalon again, and then let em get through the mission and into the rest of GW.

That would be a relatively easy fix and would likely solve the debate we are now seeing over it.

This Beta event was my first, and all I can say is I played just fine using the current tuturial.

The MAIN problems I see are...
*Academy is not very clear, I wound up as a Warrior/Nothing character.
*Learning your skills for primary/secondary. There are several skills you can learn for both your class picks, it's fairly important to learn all you can before traveling onwards. Or else it'll be not-so-cheap later on to learn them.

PS: I died PLENTY of times in the pre-searing, as well as my partner in adventuring who also had no clue how to play GW.

250,000 people played E3 GW, where you were droped off in a battle zone with NO help or aid. Now that E3 demo spawned how many fansites, forums, and media?

Obviously the arguement "if you drop new players off into that area they'll quit" doesn't hold much water. But how about half my guild who refuses to play GW because the first time they played was Jan or Feb and the new area made them uninstall the game within 30 minutes, even with me there helping them?

The new area is already destroying potential customers, because it only targets the below-average, scarce gamer. The majority of gamers have played games for years, a tutorial like they have now will destroy the image GW should project.

You could even make this a pvp reward for attaining a certain amount of account fame (if that gets added), thus rewarding the more competitive minded players the ability to more quickly and easily deploy a wide variety of strategies.

Although wpe did pull in a large number of gamers, how many of them are still playing? I know quite a number of people who played wow and TRIED guildwars, but were turned OFF to the game because of their experiences in wpe. Winning those gamers back may be somewhat difficult, despite the low level content that anet is now adding. How many people are playing the beta events compared to wpe? judging from the number of districts in LA, and tombs, i'd say its far less than 1/4 of the number that tried wpe. We'll just have to see how many play the next truly public event, and compare that to wpe I guess.

I agree .. I am new to the game in this last BWE. I posted what I thought needed to be clarified about the beginning area. Veteran players should be able to choose their primary and secondary skill and skip the 'tutorial'. But It needs to be there for the players that are completely new to the game. If someone states that they couldnt get half their clan/guild to understand the game even with your help and they deleted it; Then they never gave the game a chance. Yes the tutorial needs tweaking for sure. But it certainly needs to be there. Main points to fix in the tutorial:

1.. Do not allow the academy quest to even appear until ALL of these three points have been accomplished.

1. The character has chosen their secondary class and completed the quest that makes their chosen secondary profession permanent.
2. The character has placed at least one point into a skill.
3. The character is at least level 3.

That will help alleviate some accidental academy adventurers. There does need to be better explaination of skills. I still think a persistent pop up window should be displayed explaining the skill point system and how to use it until at least one point has been placed into a skill. I enjoyed my first BWE and I wished it didnt end. The cutscenes are great.

You have a really good idea for the reasons that we created the Kingdom of Ascalon region. Oh, and thanks for introducing two new players to Guild Wars, that's great.

That's interesting, xaanix. If you have suggestions for what might make these players' experience better, do be sure to share them in the Suggestions Thread. The new region is a step in the right direction, but we're always looking for more ways to make the "welcoming experience" better. Oh, and just so you know, we had a lot more players than it appeared to you, I guess, for your estimate is very low.

I tried the new areas and I believe they are a nice introduction to the game. I think it is what was needed, and i really cant imagine simplifying it much further. I think all that really needs to happen at this point is for those players who were disssatisfied to re-experience the game from the start. WPE showed Guildwars' endgame, and to many experienced MMO players and guildwars fans,, this was a very welcome thing. To the average public gamer however, that event may have been something they werent ready for.

As far as the populations playing BWE's, i think i saw 12 districts of Tombs at the most during this bwe, and not many more of LA or other towns. I remember there being 8-10 times that many for both of those zones during wpe, which is why i felt that the online population dropped. Maybe you guys could post your online usage stats similar to other games? (which show a list of servers and how many players are logged in)

I'm new to Guild Wars, but definitely not a new gamer. I am a 33 year old female and I have to agree with you on this. IF I started the game and was immediately given a test of skills, I may have quit right there.

I was invited to this game via a player I had met in another MMORPG. I got my little code and after reading the site, installed the game and waited rather impatiently for the event to start. While waiting on the game to start I chatted with my friend for a while about the game. He tried explaining the basics of the game and what not so that I could jump right in at level 20 and go do some PvP.

The event finally started, I made my first character. Julia Darkheart. Ranger/Elementalist, Lvl 20. Now, since I had sat at the computer trying to log in every 10 minutes after midnight (EST, not PST.. can you tell I was excited.. lol) My friend had long gone to bed. So, I'm on my own now. I have this buff LvL 20 character that I thought was pre-made, to include skills, attributes, etc.

I decide to venture out the gates of Lions Arch. Mind you, I had no idea there was such a thing as Henchman, nor did I know I had to assign my attribute points. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty. I know that I am a decent gamer, I had the movement and "basics" of game-play down but still got mauled. What was the problem.... ha ha. Well, i was about ready to say to heck with this.

I went back to the character creation instead and made a Level 1 Character. Oh my.. look at this... it explains a lot more. It let me get the hang of the game before being thrust into the fray. It's what saved me as a player and a soon to be customer so to speak. The "tutorial" still needs work, i'll grant yo uthat, but it's still much better to give a new player time to acclimatize himself/herself to a new game.

After finally "getting the hang of the game" I went and made some of the premades for the PvP Arena and had a lot of fun. The point is, all games, regardless of your gaming level need some sort of tutorial so you can learn the intracasies of the new game. Good work on what you've done so far.

Re-introduce the original solo tutorial that explained:
1) how to use skills
2) how to equip stuff
3) henchman
4) what skills do what
5) some other crap

Oh come on, now. That old tutorial was dull. At least this tutorial has content for old and new players alike. Content for PvErs, Roleplayers, and PvPers. Granted, it needs a lot of work, but it's leagues ahead of the older content. If it annoys you so much, just ask for Arena to allow you to enter the Academy straight away. Don't take away content that some, if not most of us loved.

It's not all about fighting and PvP, y'know.

I was new in this last bte and I appreciated the tutorial very much. I have played MMorpg's before and if I had been dumped into post searing Ascaln and heard all the WTB's and WTS's I would have said "done this before...nothing new here". There is always a core of "semi-pro" players who have gamed so much that all they want is action, action, action. But, for a game to be successful you need to attract people...hopefully newer players who will play this game before all others.
I found the pre-searing Ascalon to be a nice way to start...to learn how to get the profession combo I could use most effectively, and to get into the style of the game. Also as I like Ranger as a 2nd profession and want a pet there is exploring to do to find a good pet. I found out that you dont have to settle for the first pet, there are others. My monk/ranger had a strider for example.
The problem I had with Kuntor's idea was that people who have a lot of experience with OTHER games will be given a fast track and will be very powerful early in the game....where's the fun in that? And also if I, as a newer player, feel like some one is being given a large advantage over me I will probably not like the game. Everybody starts equal how skilled you are will come out as you play the game.

That is not going to work. Take the academy for example. Because I've played PvP in the arena before, my mind switched into PvP mode immediately despite being unceremoniously dumped into a battle. I proceeded to pound the opponents while some of the players on both teams have no idea whats going on. We won by a big margin.

I'm sure the team that lost doesn't like that at all. Being tested on something new without prior experience is going to turn away people almost certainly. Imagine you signed up for a module and being given a quiz on the first day. You'll hate the lecturer for a long time after that.

The Old Ascalon is better suited for getting to know more about the game in detail. Basic mechanics should be taught in a somewhat more controlled envrionment like that previous BWEs. People need to figure out things by themselves. What Cicciro suggested in the Newe Olde Ascalone thread seems to be feasible.

I don't know if any of you play CoH (City of Heroes) but they had a similar issue.

The solution? When you make a character in CoH and hit START, a window comes up and you have to pick: "Start Tutorial or Skip Tutorial." If you skip it, you start at level 2 and at a trainer, if you start it, you start at level 1, do the 4 newbie missions and ding level 2 in the process.

I don't see why this would be hard to do in GW.

My two cents worth:

This weekend was my first time in the game. My first venture into the 'Academy' was a disaster. I had no rev capability because I did not understand I had to do that back in the beginning to get the rev signet. But I learned. I found the learning interesting. And finding I could build up lots of skills was exhilerating. (even found a bug for one test!!!)

I like it. Let's me spend some quiet time with my character so that I can prepare for the brutal mission phase of the game. For the released version I would like to just see some tips or guide so that I know what I'm supposed to do to create a useful character. The thing I hate most about any game (except maybe the very first time) is trashing a character I built up to correct the errors of my ways.

I don't think that the 'test' is something I really would find interesting. Part of the game is building up your character, even if it is redundant and repetitive.

The main difference is that you can build up much more than a level 2 character in the introduction phase of GuildWars. My character, at the end of the weekend, was level 7 and I had not entered the Academy yet.

My experience was similar to Condor's. I built two characters this BWE. One I took to post-searing at level 7, and immediately wished I hadn't. The other is level 8 and still in pre-searing Ascalon. Different people having different playing styles and enjoy different aspects of the game. For those of us who like to explore in detail, learn everything from the ground up, and don't mind taking time to master the basics, the new game start is wonderful. For those who want to get at "it", you can go to the Academy at level 3 and press ahead. This seems a fairly balanced approach.

Galatea Orea
In the beginning was Woman.
Then came man.
The rest is history.

Keyword: can

You don't HAVE to level past 3. If you wanted a quick out, you would just say "Skip Tutorial" and start off in the regular Ascelon as a level 3 character with a secondary profession. In the beta before this one, everyone in ascelon was level 2 and that was the NORMAL level to do the first mission (defending the northern wall). Being level 7 before leaving the tutorial zone is kind of silly really... There isn't much of a challenge left once you start doing the real missions at 7 instead of 2 or 3.

We're basing the average player off of E3 people? Obviously, your argument doesn't hold much water. The average game buyer doesn't even know what "E3" is...

No? First the average game buyer is a 36 year old, average player 29. Maybe 8 year olds don't know what E3 is, but I have for the last 10 years or so, and so does everyone else I know who plays games.