Improve MESMER class attributes?

OK. This is a rather drastic suggestion.

Hear me out. As much as some of you like to boast about how great this class is, as a user of a mesmer myself with all quests and missions/bonuses done in tyria, I cannot help but notice that I can do everything a mesmer does with perhaps an e/me or n/me.

The value of our class attribute FAST CAST is very minimal with the skills of the mesmer I find. Furthermore, it is weakened even more by the fact that it encounters diminishing returns. For our inturrupts, we already are blessed with 1/4 second inturrupts. If you have trouble using that, I doubt having 1/4 less 30% (about level 9 fast cast) is going to help you that much.

I understand there are skills like Backfire and diversion (and others i'm sure) that benefit a little from fast cast. But let me ask you how much? Do we use those skills to cast while someone else is in the process of using skills/spells? Or do we use them to prevent their future actions? I think mainly it's the latter. Rarely do I pull off a backfire while someone does a 2 second spell like heal party even with 9 in fast cast. However, spells like Meteor shower (5 second cast time), I usually manage my backfire regardless of fast cast or not. The same applies for diversion. You are not going to get diversion off before someone uses an attack skill unles you get lucky; I doubt fast cast helps much.

I'm sure there are those that find fast cast useful. However, compared to the other classes' main attribute, I think mesmers are by far the weakest. Adding to this is the fact that many of our skills encounter little benefit in going above level 12 attribute like E-Surge and E-Burn. A majority of our other skills encounter minor dmg boosts or duration boosts. Of course, many other professions face the same problem. The point I'm trying to raise is that an N/Me or E/Me can do just about everything a Me/X can do and better because they benefit from their own class attributes and armor a lot more.

My suggestion is 2-fold:
1. Add another base energy regen to make it equal to a total of +5 energy regen. This goes well with the theme that mesmers control their own energy and their opponents energy.

2. Remove the diminishing returns in the fast cast line. Perhaps 3.5% or 4% per attribute level making it 56%-64% at level 16 FC. Just make it balance. But remove the diminishing returns. No other class suffers this with their primary main attribute.

Also let me address those who think Me/E is better at nuking.

For PvE, in order to be a successful nuker, the most effective way of dealing dmg per second and dmg per energy is with meteor shower and the other high energy exhaust causing skills (Rog Invoction [25], Earthquake comes to mind). Yes, there will be those who try it out with lightning and other such unique builds. But they will remain that: situational builds for very specific farming areas and pve areas. For the vast majority of the game, the large nuking spells are what many people play and for a good reason: they deal the most dmg over time and with regards to mana with minimum effort from the players.

If we establish that there is a dependence on those skills, it comes with an inherent problem for the mesmer who lacks the mana pool to support those skills nor the high attribute line that would utilize them properly like the elementalist. The minimum benefit of being able to cast it 1-2 seconds faster (with some of those long casting time skills) is mitigated when the elementalist can dish out so much more.

In PvP, it's a whole different picture. Most ele skills in PvP seem to be short cast time (where FC wouldn't effect it much) or utility skills like blind (again with short cast time). Meteor Shower is not used as often. And when it is used effectively, being able to cast it 1-2 seconds faster is not as a big deal as being able to continually pump out the mana to cast it.

Similar arguments follow for Me/N and N/Me. N/Me has energy control with soul reaping while Me only has fast cast which offers very minimum benefit.

Those are my suggestion. I'm open to others. I am set on my belief that the class as a whole is gimped. Our armor is nothing spectacular and our primary attribute is really pretty bad IMO.

you know, I usually run FC around 8, and I havent had a single problem you've said..

But if this is a major problem, I must just be lucky.

The Mesmer’s Inspiration line provides, in my opinion, one of the best forms of energy management in the game, which makes your first suggestion sort of unnecessary. Mesmers were never intended to be a damage dealing class so it’s no surprise the absurdly expensive Elementalist spells are a little taxing on a Mesmer’s energy (Even if a little Inspiration + Glyph of Energy could probably significantly mitigate costs). The Mesmer's strength lies in its manipulative actions taken against enemy warriors and casters. Fast Casting works as a primary for the Mesmer because it enhances the class’s ability to apply a disrupting hex and then quickly move on to their next target without a lull in momentum. It also makes 3 second casts like Diversion and Backfire (that shouldn't be used as interrupts anyway) a lot less unwieldy. Either way I like your second suggestion even though the difference in casting speeds at between 10 and 11 Fast Casting would probably still be negligible.

I'm not set on the specifics of my suggestions. I just believe that the class attribute needs improvement in general.

OK, most hexes to my knowledge are 1-2 seconds. I really don't see an advantage in being able to cast it in 0.66-1.33 seconds instead of 1-2 seconds. An elementalist would have more energy and Necros have energy control.

I don't see much that a mesmer can do that other professions cannot emulate by taking mesmer as a secondary profession.

Fast Casting (in PvE) is a weak attribute compared to the other professions' and I agree it needs a buff. But what buff? +1 energy regen sounds potentially unbalancing and may actually reverse the current problem (a necro might go Me/N for the regen & FC). Perhaps the % could be upped as you mentioned, I have no objections to that, though that alone isn't enough.

I suggest an increase in the number of FC-linked skills. Look at Strength (W/ primary): it's a similarly weak attribute, but is popular because of the skills tied to it. Right now, with Prophecies and Factions combined, there are only four FC skills, and only three of them useful (*cough*). There's definitely room for improvement there. At least give us a "key" skill linked to FC, like Divine Boon/Spellbreaker is to DF, Ether Prodigy is to ES etc. Mantra of Recovery is a bit *meh*, even with the recent buff. I would hardly think someone would go Mesmer primary just for that, or any other FC skill.

And I just have to add, our armour is the most spectacular of all the classes, thank you very much!

For part 2 I agree with, a minor increase on fast casting will help put us on par with the other professions. The fact we are lacking somewhat is true, but only a little.

Well, let's just say using Backfire and Diversion without Fast Casting. is literally screaming "INTERRUPT ME!" in PvP.

I usually have about 11 or 12 FC on my e-surge/shutdown. The fast casting is vital for my role of energy denial. Being able to unload surge/burn/shame/e-tap in under 5 seconds or something really does make monks shit themselves. If I didn't have fast casting I wouldn't be half as efficient.

I agree a buff would be nice, but I disagree that is not worth being primary mesmer to be able to use runes. 15 or even 16 domination is pretty damn sweet (except for surge and burn ). With shame stealing 15 energy, energy leak making foe lose 25 energy, diversion disabling skill for 59 seconds etc, you get the picture. Personally, I usually take power spike or leak in a build if I can (especially since power spike got pimped to 12 second recharge) and if I came across a mesmer without fast casting I could really mess him up since most mesmer skills burn/surge etc are 1 second which I can easily interrupt with my 1/4 second + 11 FC = 1/6 second ??? casting time interrupt.

If mesmer primary don't work for you dude then be something else. If your a necro and your team has another mesmer, at least you won't die first he he.
I just personally think FC is awesome for super energy denial which is my main style of hard house pain.

Fast Casting seems to help PvE mesmers enough already as it is. I would agree on boosting FC ever so slightly to be on par with Expertise (4% per level). It would hardly make a difference to the PvE mesmers. They either cast too slowly and are easy to interrupt, or cast way to fast. Its like the Banished Dream Riders and there ability to interrupt 1/4 cast spells...

I've found from experience that mesmer is the only class that seems to work well as a secondary with any primary profession.

I have been chanting forr ages for MoR to last 20 seconds and cost 5 energy...
Well Anet has done the 20 second part; now all we need is the 5 energy...soon the good primary will be ours (looks at ether prodigy, looks at divine boon)

Fast Casting is useful to an extent... but there's never any reason to pump a lot of points into it, and absolutely no incentive whatsoever to use any rune except minor!
Definatly needs some more benefits. I think skills is the way to go, and maybe a little more effect on the casting speed. One main problem with the design of this attribute that I see is simply that Fast Casting kind of encourages spell spamming, which isn't really what mesmers are about. Mesmers should analyze the situation and try to cast their spells when needed to get the most effect, rather than just getting off as many spells as they can in a short time... Fast Casting doesn't really help them do that.

Yeah but whats to analyse when your up against an enemy monk at the start of a PvP battle? The only thing there is *spam every energy denial skill i have, get em recharged faster*

Lets agree then that fast casting is situational and if ur an e-surger with decent enough energy management that spells like burn and surge become spamable (except for recharge) then you're going to benefit from fast casting more than say a migrane mesmer who, after using migrane, mainly uses 1/4 second cast time spells anyway so they could spend their attribute points more effectively on something else.

I mesmer can work perfectly fine without fast casting, meaning you could quite happily do the job of a mesmer as say a N/Me or a E/Me. I'm actually thinking of making a necro skill denial build with shame and mark of subversion. However if you come up against another mesmer or some kind of freaky interrupt warrior or interrupt ranger, then your going to benefit from fast casting endlessly.

A 4% casting speed per point buff as well as new skills (stolen speed is quite nice) would greatly benefit the fast casting mesmer and encourage more people to be primary mesmers and be able to do that damed awful dance

For fun we could come up with new fast casting spell ideas.
Here is my attempt

--- Arcane Double
Energy cost 5
Recharge 20
--- The next 2 skills that you cast, cast simultaneously (at exactly the same time - first is delayed till you cast the second) and recharge 50% quicker

Am I just being silly or would that be cool ?? Anyone else wanna come up with some rad fast casting skills.

FC is fine as it is. I think it's very useful. I can tell when switching back to my other characters (esp. my Rt) that the difference between cast speed is just huge. FC allows you to sneak a lot of skills that are triggered upon action and that people can realize are coming and cancel the action. This sneakiness is well worth FC. It also makes interrupts hell of a lot harder. I think Mesmers are perfectly fine as is. You don't do much in PvE but in PvP you are king, so... I see no point in discussing this.

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I dunno I was just thinking of a pretty stupid skill that I would really like to have. I think its recharge should be affected by points in fast casting just for a change
Apart from Hella good who don't wanna make up a skill anyone else got any skills they wanna make up ?

Well i agree that FC needs a nice boost. If they dont change it i rly dont care because i will still like my mezmer the most. But u have to realize any decent PVE team u wont need MS. By the time MS gets off its a waste beacuse they are already dead almost(Being a ele primary) Now being a Me/E u run dual attunments with a 2-2.5sec MS. Wow u lose a little dmg but u can through it out and get the KD also reacharge is 60 sec i think so energy isnt a problem. Now in the new elite missions MS is just a pian because it will get interrupted or u will die before u get it off when being a ele primary. As a mezmer u can throw it rather quick at them if aggro is blown and make them run away from u and monkeys

I love my ele but i love FC even more. Plus Male Mez FOW is AWESOME. Dont bash mez nuker's i also play any type of mezmer i just like to throw rocks at people sometimes. The only better ele is flag runner HP spammer, or earth is better for a ele primary IMO. A Me/E with gale is fun as hell also, that more pvp though.

Maybe your should start the same thread somewhere else to get GW attention

Edit i know i cant type

FC is perfect. Along with Mesmers decent recharge spell times and 10-15 usual spell costs, the only FC side effect is that energy goes away too fast.

But inspiration balances all that. So, it's ok as it is

I don't see anything wrong Fast Casting. I remember one of the first times I entered Random Arena as a Mesmer (heh, I was a Me/R with points in FC, Dom, Illusion, and Marks ), I encountered a N/Me. He started to cast Backfire so I cast Backfire on him first (even though I didn't start until after him). Then hit him with Phantom Pain and Shatter Delusions before he managed to get his Vamp Gaze off and die from Backfire.

I'm not trying to say that this was uber of me or anything like that, just that I managed to let loose 3 skills totalling 5.25 seconds in less than 4 seconds. That's a pretty solid PvP ability, in my book.

The only suggestion I would make is to make the Mesmer's Fast Casting apply to the time inbetween spells as well as the casting time of the spells themselves. I don't really understand why it doesn't...

We're talking about mesmer monsters in PvE .... those things can interrupt you whether your casting a 5 second spell or a 1/5 second spell. The only way to stop them is by bringing MoR or MoC (or i suppose the forgotten Glyph of Concentration).

Fast Casting is fine the way it is. Having something like Guilt which can be cast in a second makes Mesmer perfect for what they do. In addition, Mantra of Recovery is an extremely good Elite, now that it overstacks, and Stolen Speed is pretty good too.

I hate how Ai cna interupt where the best mesmer in the game couldn't. Mesmer is a fine class, just don't head to head with a warrior when you are on a caster hate build lol

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i think a nice boost to the fast casting attribute would be increased skill recharge along with increased casting speed. say for every 4 marks you get a 5% boost in skill recharge. or better yet at 8 or more in fast casting you get an extra +1 energy regen. i dont think that would make a mesmer over powering it would just help keep the mesmer on a more level playing field with the other professions. just an idea

So...all you guys saying fc is "fine the way it is..."
Is it better or equal to the strength of...

energy storage?
...no
soul reaping?
...hate to say it, but no (thanks to new elites)
strength?
...another no, due to skills
divine favor?
...a definate no
expertise?
...hell no

Its an "ok" primary; it is just not on the same level as the other primarys. Expertise allows rangers to practically have 6 points of energy regen; assuming they don't use any energy management skills upon which the gain of those skills is doubled. Expertise almost allows them to skip out of energy management; deny using it whatsoever. Elementalists get Ether Prodigy; easily the most powerful energy management in the game, beating any other character's base mp regeneration by 2.5x their base regen. Necromancers get a bitchin elite that owns hell frankly; and doubles as energy management and in addition kicks in with MM nicely. Warriors get a spiffy skill set; as well as making all of their skills more powerful to begin with. Monks get...well to double the healing power of all their skills; more importantly what the hell was Anet thinking when they made this? +50hp on each spell? A free orisons on each spell!? Add divine boon for another +70? 2 energy on each spell for a heal other!?...what the hell guys. Mesmers get fast casting; which is "nice" I'll leave it at that. Sure it is "nice" but will it solve your energy-no. Will it earn you a place in a spike team-no. Will it make your spells more energy efficient-no. Does it have any decent linked skills-no. Fast casting has nothing going for it; except 9, maybe 10 "extra" points which the mesmer can't find anything else to do with simply because he/she has run out of skill slots for other more "useful" things.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to stand by this guy's request. Make MoR a godly skill; put mesmers on the playing field with the rest of GW. Equal ground for all.

i wonder what will happen if...



they took away MoR,
changed 'fast cast' to 'fast magic';

and aside from the passive decrease in cast times,
each lvl in 'fast magic' also passively decreases the
magic recharge times. (though of a substansially
lower percentage value).

The main issue is in diminishing returns on fast casting. There are ALREADY diminishing returns on *EVERY* attribute because of the fact that each level requires more points to get than the level before it. Why would you want to diminish that further by making the later (MOST EXPENSIVE) levels, the least useful? It doesn't make any sense to me. You're paying like twice the cost for a 10% boost in effectiveness? Umm, no thanks.
On top of that, Major/Superior Fast Casting runes are useless. Obviously nobody is going to waste the HP loss to increase a skill that's not at 11 or maybe 12, and nobody ever puts Fast Casting that high.

If somebody is going to put nearly half of their attribute points in Fast Casting (level 12), I would expect them to be casting spells INSANELY fast, given the sacrifice they would be making in not having many attribute points in things that will actually make more spells worth casting...

Now... I like the Fast Magic idea to have it passively affect spell recharges. I have a slight fear that it would cause certain enchantments to be unbalanced, so that has to be investigated.
Another idea that might help mesmer primaries become a little more popular would be to change Fast Casting so that it changes the activation time of all skills, not just spells. Fast Casting would be a more popular choice if it actually had some effect on warrior and ranger skills (and most assassin skills) as well as the necromancer touch skills (which aren't spells)

Another thought, make Fast Casting increase wand and staff attack speed by a significant amount. It'll be a nice DPS bonus when we run out of energy to cast spells (which is bound to happen when we are casting more spells than everyone else :P)

I'd have to say that if they made fast casting with reduces recharge time reduction it would make the playing field unbalanced. The whole point (in my opinion) is to be able to unload your skills and then the recharge time if to regen. I personally pack leech signet just in case i need an energy-less interupt in midbattle, and the energy boost (no matter how small it is) helps the regen time. Also if you really want to spam skills in that time you can easily bring Overlord (which can deal suprisingly good damage on a casting foe 21+53 on my mesmer)or conjure fantasm, or be Me/E and bring flare or stone daggers. Personally, i beleive that fast casting and all other mesmer attributes are fine.

on a sie note, I also think stolen speed is a very nice skill, and i use it myself (getting 18seconds of 25% faster casting is always a boost), and if Anet is ever going to make a skill like the one u have created, they would definately need to up the energy cost to at least 15e and give it a 30-40second recharge.

I think FC is fine as it is. I don't know why people complain about it. MoR is now awesome, 20 sec recharge and 10 energy cost. FC is really useful in PvP. I like casting Ignorance on people who are using rez signet and interrupt them. This skill is far from underpowered.

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