MoR Domination Mes Experiement
Xasew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Quote: Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella SQ can loop into itself and be kept up continously. No it can't. The recharge is 45 seconds and there's nothing you can do about it without QZ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Now that I have that off my back; lets get on to some of the other arguements. Shame...a hex spell...recharge 30...
2 counters on boon prots
1. CoP
2. Holy veil
Those are only "self" fixes, with the new mesmer elite; yea hex removal is going to be a BIG problem in gvg.
You referenced me not having experience in high level gvg...come again? Alright I will let that one pass (for now) but what you follow it up with is just downright stupid. The point of Shame and Diversion is to catch the enemy at their spells. With MoR recharging them, their low recharge makes up for a miss. Constant pressure, with the likes of Wastrel's Worry, also enchances their ability. Casting Diversion might not even be noticed as the enemy casts Reversal or such, if you catch them within the first few seconds of its duration.
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
One costs less energy, works with skills (aka everything), can be kept up continously with a jump (SQ flipped onto itself so it gets the recharge bonus) and rangers get it.
Stop wasting my time.MoR is a stance, it does cost 10 energy, it is an elite, thus many mesmers (such as myself) DO NOT want it. Now if it costed 5 energy; yea I would use it-but not 24/7. As it is now it is nothing more than a gimmic build, a build to be killed by warriors, interrupt rangers, all with the dead little mesmers saying "HA! They won't be using those skills for a whole minute!" like that matters as you won't be using any of your skills for the rest of the game.
Wait, are you seriously judging skills by RANDOM ARENA? In GvG you have Monks to deal with the damage you receive. And the ability to throw Shame every 15 seconds makes a Warrior spike so many times more lethal it's not even funny.
Straight from Wiki
Progression
Wilderness Survival 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Duration 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Rank 15...30 seconds
45x.66=29.7 seconds to recharge
Thank you; come again; do your math, come back after you finish kindergarden.
Now that I have that off my back; lets get on to some of the other arguements. Shame...a hex spell...recharge 30...
2 counters on boon prots
1. CoP
2. Holy veil
Those are only "self" fixes, with the new mesmer elite; yea hex removal is going to be a BIG problem in gvg.
You referenced me not having experience in high level gvg...come again? Alright I will let that one pass (for now) but what you follow it up with is just downright stupid.
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Quote:
Let me knock someone on their ass by showing them the stupidity of their math.|
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
SQ is a good skill, many people use it with no points in it-it is that good. And yes MoR is in the FC line, an attribute line where the diminishing returns make it the worst primary in the game. So personally I don't see your arguement. MoR should be 5 energy, and you completely left out blackout in your post above. SQ+BO ttyl; have your little "Diversion+MoR spam" stay in the random arenas; and lets see how many times you die before the warrior runs out of skills.
Yes, let's spam Blackout, that will certainly not get us killed when we're running in the frontline without the ability to protect ourselves with Distortion or anything at all. I haven't said a word about Diversion, but I'm pretty sure that would work effectively, too.
Unless I'm understanding something very wrong here, it seems as if you're not judging the skill by 8v8. In 8v8 not being able to Infuse for a minute is one hell of a bad thing if you ask me. Or what if for a minute the enemy can't use Backbreaker? Use MoR+Diversion, Drain Ether Prodigy and stick Diversion right when it recharges: 8 times out of 10 the guy puts EP back as soon as Diversion ends and you catch it with the second Diversion. 1 minute of no Blinding Flash is one hell of a thing to accomplish if you ask me.
Pozeidon
I have been looking at MoR too as an alternative, if you want to spam diversion some what, you can run a glyph mesmer and glyph diversion. I like it cos you can glyph whatver skill is most effective depending on what your going against. You need to double shatter and such. If you run power drain and drain enchant with 9 to 10 in inspiration you shouldnt have energy problems. But the reason I like MoR recently is cos you can run a me/mo and take some support for the team i.e. draw, hard res, etc.
I have to disagree with the statement diversion is a bad skill. Diversion is great especially when you catch monks; RoF, PS, Edrain, MoR. You can also be very effective against offensive players slowing down some hexing or dmg. Have problems interrupting with Power Drain, find an ele or necro you will almost guarantee getting your energy. CrispyCritter
Honestly I wouldn't use Distortion and MoR in the same build. I use Blackout, and this is great for defending against warriors. Even if they're not attacking me, I can still black them out and cause them to lose all of their adrenaline, which screws their adrenal spike.
I generally don't like using skills like Spirit of Failure without cover hexes, as they just tend to get removed unless you're running a hex heavy build. ' Power Leak IS very powerful, but I find it hard to use against boon prots, as they will only occasionally cast 1s spells, and I generally find that I spend most of my time screwing with the opposing team's offense as opposed to their monks. Diversion spam is useful, but I mainly use Diversion for shutting down key skills, such as Draw Conditions or Blinding Flash. Just spam it a few times until you hit the skill you wanted to shut down, and then move on to your next target. Although getting RoF diverted really sucks for a boon prot. As for Power Drain vs. E-tap, E-tap is certainly more reliable, but I use Power Drain because I don't like being without an interrupt on my bar. I generally end up using it on mesmers, necros, or eles, as I run this build in GvG. I have no problems with Drain Enchant; I've even used this as energy management on a monk, and it doesn't seem all that situational since you can almost always find someone with an enchantment. Honestly, I think that with the recent update, MoR is overpowered, and I'm amazed I don't see more mesmers running it.
fatboyslimerr
Thank you Cripsy Critter. Finally someone else acknowleding how good MoR has become. I think diversion is a great skill (was having fun with MoR+diversion muhahaha) yeh but possibly not that great in a MoR build. I truely love it when I managed to get a monk usin' RoF or RC (if my team is condition spammin') its just fantastic. Blackout is also a fantastic skill, I love that too but since its not a spell, I don't think its great in MoR build either. Standard esurge build I use usually has diversion and blackout in it but for this new monster, MoR super fantastic max energy denying pimp, I don't think diversion and blackout are best suited if my goal of being maximum e-denial.
Glyph mesmers are good, but I still prefer MoR. In all honesty I think this skill was made for me. In HA, less skilled teams don't worry too much about warriors being hexed if they ain't losing health so spirit of failure works a charm. Obviously in skilled teams it'll need to be covered so you could partner up with a degen mesmer (phantasm spammer) or a hex spammin' necro or something. Obviously in GvG I work with a degen mesmer who will cover spirit of failure with images of remorse or something (and another hex if enemies have expel hexes). Crispy critters appears to be on the level, mesmers should have at least one interrupt, p. drain is great energy management skill but power leak (mentioned this lots of times) is my favourite interrupt by a long way. So I stick with E-Tap as it becomes a whole lot better with 12 second recharge. If your gonna spam blackout Eaimirth, and its great fun doing this, I recommend Echo {E} + Blackout. If you have blackout at foes skills disabled for 7 seconds, it would work like this. Cast Echo, use blackout -- 7 seconds later use echoed blackout, original blackout should now be recharged. Repeat as neccessary. This would be one time when ether lord might be an option. Cast before using blackout to gain energy while blacked out. There is one problem in using MoR build which is pretty annoying. If your gettin' bashed a bit and you need to run away or retreat a bit but also still be affective, its hard to maintain MoR meaning some skills have short recharge, others have normal recharge. This often means I'm stuck with energy requiring skills while my energy gain skills are recharing. It doesn't happen very often and it can be avoided by getting into a rhyme of pressing MoR (number 1 on my skill bar) although I often end up with about 10 energy, so spirit of failure is vital here. Eaimirth Etaivella
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasew
No it can't. The recharge is 45 seconds and there's nothing you can do about it without QZ. Wait, are you seriously judging skills by RANDOM ARENA? In GvG you have Monks to deal with the damage you receive. And the ability to throw Shame every 15 seconds makes a Warrior spike so many times more lethal it's not even funny. Yes, let's spam Blackout, that will certainly not get us killed when we're running in the frontline without the ability to protect ourselves with Distortion or anything at all. I haven't said a word about Diversion, but I'm pretty sure that would work effectively, too. Unless I'm understanding something very wrong here, it seems as if you're not judging the skill by 8v8. In 8v8 not being able to Infuse for a minute is one hell of a bad thing if you ask me. Or what if for a minute the enemy can't use Backbreaker? Use MoR+Diversion, Drain Ether Prodigy and stick Diversion right when it recharges: 8 times out of 10 the guy puts EP back as soon as Diversion ends and you catch it with the second Diversion. 1 minute of no Blinding Flash is one hell of a thing to accomplish if you ask me. |
Straight from Wiki
Progression
Wilderness Survival 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Duration 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Rank 15...30 seconds
45x.66=29.7 seconds to recharge
Thank you; come again; do your math, come back after you finish kindergarden.
Now that I have that off my back; lets get on to some of the other arguements. Shame...a hex spell...recharge 30...
2 counters on boon prots
1. CoP
2. Holy veil
Those are only "self" fixes, with the new mesmer elite; yea hex removal is going to be a BIG problem in gvg.
You referenced me not having experience in high level gvg...come again? Alright I will let that one pass (for now) but what you follow it up with is just downright stupid.
Quote:
Straight from Wiki. You would also know that Serpent's Quickness does not recharge itself.|
Originally Posted by Xasew
Use MoR+Diversion, Drain Ether Prodigy and stick Diversion right when it recharges: 8 times out of 10 the guy puts EP back as soon as Diversion ends and you catch it with the second Diversion. 1 minute of no Blinding Flash is one hell of a thing to accomplish if you ask me.
So in high level gvg...you drain the enchantment; then spend 1.5 seconds casting diversion on them. Considering they notice that the enchantment is gone almost instantly (and they would; hell their whole team would know considering the hp loss) and the fact that it has a 1sec cast time...they would beat you to it. Or situation B, they see you casting diversion and hold off for 6 seconds or ping it to have it removed. Or situation C, assuming they saw the diversion hit them mid cast, they cancel their spell and hold off for 6 seconds; the time it would take them not to see the diversion ping up on their hex bar (we will be generous) would be 1/4 of a second.
Right; you do that. You disable EP by doing that against a high level guild in gvg playing a ranked match in some tourny and provide a video to prove it; I will buy you FoW. Edit-yes I know of the BO+echo combo; just using a counter example to make a point.
Cherng Butter
MoR has to be the best skill for energy denial. I run:
13 FC (11+2) 14 Insp (10+4) 11 Dom (10+1) Yeah i know its a sup and major, just take a hale staff of fortitude MoR Feedback Etap Eburn Shame Diversion/Remove Hex (i found that diversion spam was sorta hard to maintain even w/ 14 inspiration, but it's still useful) Drain Enchant Resurrect/Res Sig this utterly destroys the typical boons you find because of their usage of enchants...you could switch feedback w/ SoW and spec in domination for diversion spam as well, I'm not sure which one is better
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Straight from Wiki Progression Wilderness Survival 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Duration 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 Rank 15...30 seconds 45x.66=29.7 seconds to recharge Thank you; come again; do your math, come back after you finish kindergarden. |
Quote:
Now that I have that off my back; lets get on to some of the other arguements. Shame...a hex spell...recharge 30...
2 counters on boon prots
1. CoP
2. Holy veil
Those are only "self" fixes, with the new mesmer elite; yea hex removal is going to be a BIG problem in gvg.
You referenced me not having experience in high level gvg...come again? Alright I will let that one pass (for now) but what you follow it up with is just downright stupid. The point of Shame and Diversion is to catch the enemy at their spells. With MoR recharging them, their low recharge makes up for a miss. Constant pressure, with the likes of Wastrel's Worry, also enchances their ability. Casting Diversion might not even be noticed as the enemy casts Reversal or such, if you catch them within the first few seconds of its duration.
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Quote:|
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
So in high level gvg...you drain the enchantment; then spend 1.5 seconds casting diversion on them. Considering they notice that the enchantment is gone almost instantly (and they would; hell their whole team would know considering the hp loss) and the fact that it has a 1sec cast time...they would beat you to it. Or situation B, they see you casting diversion and hold off for 6 seconds or ping it to have it removed. Or situation C, assuming they saw the diversion hit them mid cast, they cancel their spell and hold off for 6 seconds; the time it would take them not to see the diversion ping up on their hex bar (we will be generous) would be 1/4 of a second.
What spells could possibly have midcast times of more than 1 second worth Diversioning? Once again, the point of Diversion is to catch their key skills before they can respond. A 1 second cast time is usually too fast for them to hit ESC, if you hit them midcast.
Eaimirth Etaivella
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragannia
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Debating against you is not only pointless but it now amuses me.
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No it can't. Go to the Isle of the Nameless and use SQ, it won't recharge itself faster ffs.|
Originally Posted by Dragannia
A 1 second cast time is usually too fast for them to hit ESC, if you hit them midcast.
Diversion has a 3 second cast time; it is impossable to "catch" someone with it unless you know that a spell is going to be cast exactly 1.5 seconds from the point of casting without a 1/4second (I'm being very generous) margin of error. Unless that happens (and it won't) you won't be diversion'ing anything anytime soon. 1 second too fast for them to hit escape? Are you kidding me? I can (and many other mesmers can) interrupt 3/4sec spells; a la faster than 1second cast times +the cast time of the interrupt. Yet you seem perfectly content in telling me that it is impossable for another "high level" player to interrupt his own spell, which doesn't even have a cast time, an entire second as he fumbles around the keyboard looking for whatever button he assigned "cancel".
Stop wasting my time. Diversion is nothing more than a possable 6 second lockdown Blackout is a definate 7 second lockdown Diversion gives them a choice; albeit an often bad choice, it is still a strategic choice that one should not often give the enamy. If anyone is "caught" casting into diversion, guilt, or shame in high level gvg it is because they are inexperienced or they ment to cast through it. If they so choose to cast through it; it is because not doing so would be more costly. In short that is why I do not like diversion and I consider it a bad skill; it presents a strategic choice to the opponent; a choice that should not be offered. Xasew
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
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Diversion is nothing more than a possible 6 second lockdown
Blackout is a definate 7 second lockdown This isn't about Diversion vs. Blackout. Blackout has lots of cons too, I'm sure you are aware of it.
1. Kiting counters it.
2. Everyone sees when you come to cast it even without targeting you.
3. You can't participate in the spike because you get blacked out, too.
Both have their good and bad sides, I'm not gonna argue about that, because I use both.
Quote:
Right. Not recommended in GvG, 'cause depending on a spirit compromises teams' agility.Blackout is a definate 7 second lockdown This isn't about Diversion vs. Blackout. Blackout has lots of cons too, I'm sure you are aware of it.
1. Kiting counters it.
2. Everyone sees when you come to cast it even without targeting you.
3. You can't participate in the spike because you get blacked out, too.
Both have their good and bad sides, I'm not gonna argue about that, because I use both.
Quote:
Never heard the term jump being used like that, but whatever.|
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Now that I have that off my back; lets get on to some of the other arguements. Shame...a hex spell...recharge 30...
2 counters on boon prots 1. CoP 2. Holy veil Those are only "self" fixes, with the new mesmer elite; yea hex removal is going to be a BIG problem in gvg. Yes, using CoP to get rid of your Boon when a target gets spiked isn't risky at all. If I see that it takes a year to cast my hex, I stop it and drain the Holy Veil first. And btw my whole argument was that with MoR the recharge is 15 and makes the spell deadly. Xasew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Right; you do that. You disable EP by doing that against a high level guild in gvg playing a ranked match in some tourny and provide a video to prove it; I will buy you FoW.
People fall for that all the time. And I'm talking about people in the top50. If you want to discuss about the god-like top10 or something, that's another story.
Eaimirth Etaivella
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Originally Posted by Xasew
No it can't. Go to the Isle of the Nameless and use SQ, it won't recharge itself faster ffs.
Ok looks like I'm going to have to slowly explain it to someone.
Cast echo Cast Serpents Quickness Cast Serpents Quickness again You now have a SQ that recharges 33% faster (jump) Vola~ you are no longer naive Xasew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Ok looks like I'm going to have to slowly explain it to someone.
Cast echo Cast Serpents Quickness Cast Serpents Quickness again You now have a SQ that recharges 33% faster (jump) It's great that you never mentioned Echo before this... Let me get this straight, you're wasting an elite to use it on SQ to get a result worse than MoR?? Assuming 10 in WS: Assuming that SQ affects Echo's recharge(probably will, but Echo has a weird recharge so you can never be sure), you'll still get 5 seconds of downtime between the 2nd and 3rd SQ, not to mention you use 2 skillslots and the other one is elite. SQ can still end if your health drops below 50%. And it's still only 33% recharge reduction, not 50%. Using Echo+SQ is one of the worst ideas I've heard.
Avarre
I'm thinking of submitting this thread into 'People who make you Laugh' over at riverside.
holden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Ok looks like I'm going to have to slowly explain it to someone.
Cast echo Cast Serpents Quickness Cast Serpents Quickness again You now have a SQ that recharges 33% faster (jump) Vola~ you are no longer naive you have been spewing all this sq crap and this is what you're gonna rest your case on? your build puts points into a secondary attribute that you only pull one skill from and you waste your elite on echo. or you could just take MoR and keep in a mesmer line. maybe even use more skills from the attribute.
fatboyslimerr
lol, good plan avarre. How can you possibly even consider using SQ as a mesmer. GET OVER IT. Even with Echo {E} which is even more stupid, its still not as good as MoR, although the true affects of MoR aren't felt until 14 FC. Lasts 19 seconds, plus you get pretty much every spell (bar diversion) off in less than a second.
I could be wrong but if you use shame on a monk and they use CoP, won't that trigger shame ???, thus the whole point of shame ?? it can only be removed by a team mate, not self removed. This is why shame is one of my favourite skills and its awesomeness just about doubles with a 15 second recharge. As for diversion, it gives the enemy an option but you should make them always opt to cast during diversion. For example plan a spike or something or spam conditions (whatever it is your team does) and if they're using martyr or prot spirit, they will most likely sacrifice that skill to save a team mate. So after your diversion spike 'patents pending' you hit 'em with the real spike while they're anti spike or anti condition skill is disabled. Of course there is much more to strategic use of diversion but if your using diversion it should always cause one of their skills to be disabled. -- Quick tip I found, if your team has warriors, boon prots love to use RoF against warriors. So you get your teams warriors to get enemy boon prot (sneaky diversion, possibly cover with something scary or just standard wastrel's worry) then boom they use RoF and its disabled for 50+ seconds, sorted. Blackout - fantastic skill and you should use it when sacrificing your skills for 5 seconds will have a greater affect than you would have in that 5 seconds, and since it lasts for 7 seconds, I love casting shame on that foe as soon as my skills aren't disabled anymore (should finish castin' same time as their skills become useable). Although I'm still stickin' with the fact that I don't think blackout is that great in a MoR build. Shame spammin' (every 15 seconds) is highly recommended however. Finally, I've mentioned this somewhere before, a mesmer should generally carry at least one interrupt. Power leak (don't get my started on its awesomeness) is the one I use. So if you drain EP, they go for the recast, you use power leak then diversion, this should work well (plus I think diversion casts in 1 and a 1/4 seconds with 14 FC but I'm not sure on that). I'm also glad someone reminded me of feedback. This (however long its recharge is) will surely benefit from MoR and totally screw boon prots over. Great stuff. Eaimirth, I'd be interested to know how long u'd be willing to be openly hostile defending your idea that a combo that u probably now realise is pretty crap, is in fact better than this wonderful new elite that Anet has pimped out for us 'faster thinking' mesmers.
Pozeidon
I played around with Serpents Quickness, but didnt really like it to much. Still think MoR is better, but have to experiment more with it. Also if you want to spam skills like diversion, shame, guilt, etc. You can still run the glyph mesmer, with glyph of renewal and gale is always nice touch too since you got the Ele secondary.
Eaimirth Etaivella
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xasew
It's great that you never mentioned Echo before this...
Let me get this straight, you're wasting an elite to use it on SQ to get a result worse than MoR?? Assuming 10 in WS: Assuming that SQ affects Echo's recharge(probably will, but Echo has a weird recharge so you can never be sure), you'll still get 5 seconds of downtime between the 2nd and 3rd SQ, not to mention you use 2 skillslots and the other one is elite. SQ can still end if your health drops below 50%. And it's still only 33% recharge reduction, not 50%. Using Echo+SQ is one of the worst ideas I've heard. This goes to all the people with like posts (I just got the one closest) I said a jump-this includes the following skills OathShot Echo Zypher etc... I just used echo as an example; I swear some people are so one-sighted that they cannot possibly consider alternatives. I find it absolutely humorous really; as for my choice I would take oathshot but thats just my preference. Now back to my point. I never suggested using SQ on a mesmer (one you couldn't loop it; but some people didn't do the math {or read my posts} and apparantly didn't figure that out by themselves). I am comparing the two skills as only skills; SQ is easily the better of the two from a skill to skill basis comparison. My point being that MoR should cost 5 energy; thats my point. Now stop misinterpreting everything I have said; not only do I find it funny but it is beginning to get annoying. Xasew
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
I said a jump-this includes the following skills OathShot Echo Zypher etc... I just used echo as an example; I swear some people are so one-sighted that they cannot possibly consider alternatives. I find it absolutely humorous really; as for my choice I would take oathshot but thats just my preference. |
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Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella
Now back to my point. I never suggested using SQ on a mesmer (one you couldn't loop it; but some people didn't do the math {or read my posts} and apparantly didn't figure that out by themselves). I am comparing the two skills as only skills; SQ is easily the better of the two from a skill to skill basis comparison. My point being that MoR should cost 5 energy; thats my point. Now stop misinterpreting everything I have said; not only do I find it funny but it is beginning to get annoying.
You say skill to skill basis, but you're putting Oath Shot in the mix. If tou take SQ and MoR and look at the skills without any other skills, you can already see that MoR is better. If you take some other skills to make SQ better, you're limited to a very narrow amount of builds, because Oath Shot+SQ isn't extremely handy unless it's some weird trapper/interrupt build. And even after that MoR is more efficient.
But none of that really matters, because looking at skills like that is just plain dumb. Only a few ranger builds benefit from SQ, while it's easy to come up with tons of Mesmer builds with MoR in them. Rangers rarely need SQ, which is why it's nothing special, while MoR gives Mesmers a lot of new options. If MoR cost 5 energy, it would give Mesmers the ability to casts spells twice as much just by saccing their elite slot, because 5 energy is next to nothing(aka it would become overpowered). With MoR costing 10 energy they have to bring at least some energy management. Eaimirth Etaivella
MoR is being used by what top guilds now? None? Is that right? Thought so...
Divine Boon is overpowered. Contemplation of Purity is overpowered. Spiteful Spirit is overpowered. Evisricate is overpowered. Barrage is overpowered. ...goes on I personally think giving mesmers a skill that makes FC worth a damn is a good thing.
Avarre
The reason this thread is so funny is 100 people have shown why it is good, and 1 person maintains that it is bad because people don't use MoR over 'Divine Boon'. Good argument man, I respect you.
Eaimirth Etaivella
I'm not saying it is a bad skill; I never said it is a bad skill. I'm saying it is in need of another buff to make it on par with other skills that already exist.
Themis
Sorry, it took me sooo long to answer (got lost in Jade sea
Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr
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Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr
but if I was using MoR + Spirit of Failure + Distortion then the rest of e-denial skills, can anyone think what attributes might look like. Remember I need high fast casting (at least 11) to use MoR effectively.
14 domination 12 fast casting 9 inspire 5 illusion ?? -- that was a complete guess I dunno if its too many points. Any idea ?? Distortion levels are at 3, 8 and 13 illusion, making you lose respectively 3,2 and 1 energy/hit. Alternative configuration (to the one you stated), is : FC 11 (+1) Illusion 8 (+1) Dom 14 (mask+3) Inspi 10 (+1) this makes your gain 1 more energy/hit from SpiritOfFailure and lose one less from Distortion. But you lower 1 lvl to FC (not a big deal, even for MoR).
fatboyslimerr
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Originally Posted by Themis
Sorry, it took me sooo long to answer (got lost in Jade sea
)...Right. Not recommended in GvG, 'cause depending on a spirit compromises teams' agility. -- Spirit ???, which spirit, do you mean spirit of failure ? Distortion levels are at 3, 8 and 13 illusion, making you lose respectively 3,2 and 1 energy/hit. Alternative configuration (to the one you stated), is : FC 11 (+1) Illusion 8 (+1) Dom 14 (mask+3) Inspi 10 (+1) this makes your gain 1 more energy/hit from SpiritOfFailure and lose one less from Distortion. But you lower 1 lvl to FC (not a big deal, even for MoR). That was just some crappie HA build I was thinking of that would be good to put up a decent fight with a warrior (or at least a decent defense against one). What you on about spirits for when I mentioned MoR/P.leak. I now actually offically think MoR/p.leak (and energy management) is the best skill combo known to man, in my opinion (don't flame because you think its shit, its probably just because you can't use it and you keep running out of energy). If they made MoR cost 5 energy it wouldn't make that much difference to me because I posted earlier that energy really isn't a problem although you think it would be. As long as I can keep up MoR constantly, then drain enchant and e-tap + shame (if pimped out recharges) are plenty to keep my energy pretty high. As for the statement MoR isn't being used by the top guilds, I would say that non of their mesmers have found a liking to it or found a good way of using it to benefit their team etc etc. The build I use it in is pure e-denial where as most top guilds mesmers have e-denial + things like blackout and gale (saw iB's mesmer using a great blackout gale combo). I dunno if they're thought of one mesmer able to deny 2 monks at once. Although as we've mentioned earlier diversion and blackout aren't that great for this build and most top guilds prefer using these skills. Eaimirth, how can you compare 2 totally different skills which have 2 totally different uses. And since this is the mesmer forum and you've even admitted that SQ is crap for a mesmer, and since there's no ranger/mesmer build which would greatly benefit from SQ while still doing the same job as a mesmer (e-denial) why do you insist on continuing. If you want to compare for example an interrupter ranger vs an interrupter mesmer using SQ and MoR respectively then we might have a serious conversion but otherwise, no thanks. Eaimirth Etaivella
I sence a challange; (the build my guild used with that combo was for healing spring/vengence spam in hoh, but whatever)
I will formulate a build.
fatboyslimerr
SQ vs MoR guild face off ??
Bit like a dance off with B-Boys and hip hop tunes except using arrows and mind domination
Eaimirth Etaivella
Ugh; not really a fan of modern music. But hey its not my analagy =p
Still working on the build; going to be hard to top my healing spring+vengence build...man it totally rocked hoh with springs going off every 7 seconds and vengence comming every 14. Of course I'm heavily going for distracting shot spam; yet still wondering how energy management is going to work out.
Themis
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr
Spirit ???, which spirit, do you mean spirit of failure
No, sorry for not being clear, it was about Greater Conflagration + Mantra of flame combination : in GvG it's not worth trying it, it doesn't work well (because ov agility etc). It works fine in HA.
Spirit of failure is (almost) essential when using Distortion.
fatboyslimerr
lol ok I get ya now. I think spirit of failure is great energy management (in GvG) if your team also has a necro hex spammer so it isn't easily removed. You can cast MoR and quickly cast it on 2/3 warriors (recharge is now 5 seconds) then get down to some serious energy denial
If you also combine MoR/Spirit of Failure with something like blurred vision or reckless haste (team mate necro or ele using these skills) on 2 or 3 warriors then you'll never have any energy problems ever again meaning sweet p.leaking every 10 seconds without worrying about energy. Does anyone know if 20% chance for half spell recharge mods stack with MoR meaning p.leak would have a 5 second recharge, shame would have 7.5 second etc etc. You can imagine the awesomeness on whatever skill you get that 20% chance on. (Also this is quite a fun post, especially with eaimirth generally disagreeing with anything anyone says, even modern music) Eaimirth Etaivella
Yes they stack.
Same for all weapon+stance scenarios. IE if you have restore life @ 4 seconds with FC; and have a 40% chance for half casting time via weapons; there is a 40% chance for a 2 second ressurect.
fatboyslimerr
did I say about casting times lol. I was on about RECHARGE and MoR stacking. Dunno why you went on about restore life 40% blah blah blah for ??
I use willcrusher with 20% chance of halving Domination spells recharge. Does this stack with MoR ???? Example, Shame (+MoR) recharge is 15 seconds + willcrusher recharge mod = 7.5 seconds. Thank you very much. I seriously doubt they do stack because that could be some serious spell spammin' otherwise. Its hard to test this also due to only 20% getting the mod and its hard to notice when ur focusing on constant power leakage.
Themis
I'm almost sure they do stack. I'll try and test it as soon as possible. And if you have the chance (or the gold needed) to buy a 20% recharge wand AND a 20% recharge chakram, well... you have a 40% chance of halving Domination skill recharge
(they both exist at the Factions end-of-game merchants).No, i don't think they could allow any continuous spamming. Main problem will rather be energy management...
fatboyslimerr
Awwww but I like my willcrusher soo much, how could I possibly switch to a wand and a chakram
 You underestimate Drain Enchant + E-Tap energy gain with their new pimped recharges, Energy really isn't a problem. If it is stop using MoR temporarily.
Themis
Me too i like my Willcrusher
But when it comes to 40% recharge, i (sometimes) decide to switch temporarily. Hoping that nobody printscreens me !!!  lolWell, what i meant is that with half the spells recharging at 25% of time, while the other half is at 50%... it's even harder. Half of skills activated MUST be energy management.
Dragannia
Actually, 20% and 20% stacks to 36%.
fatboyslimerr
How'd you figure that out Dragannia, I'm not saying your wrong because I dunno but I'd be interested to know how it works.
I wouldn't be seen dead with a wand and a chakram, if I can't use my willcrusher I might as well retire from mesmering. (call me silly but hey I like to look like I might be able to control someones mind with a big scary stick) !!
Themis
Thanks for correcting me, Dragannia. I'll try to be more precice :
In fact there are two possible stackings : 1. stack chances to get half recharge times 2. stack recharge bonuses Assume you have MoR on, and a 20% mod : In case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR) In case 2 : 20% of spells recharge 25% faster, 80% of them recharge 50% faster. Assume you have two mods of 20% recharge : In case 1 : 36% chances to get half recharge In case 2 : 4% of spells have 25% recharge, 32% have half recharge, rest are normal. Assume you have MoR on plus two mods of 20% recharge : Case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR) Case 2 : 4% have 12,5% recharge, 32% have 25% recharge, rest have half recharge. I bet it's case 2 that should reflect reality.
What if...
Wow, I wasn't expecting the thread to last this long, but I'm enjoying reading all your comments and the discussion in general (I'm also enjoying Crispy's Aegis + MoR build
). Keep it up everyone.
fatboyslimerr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
Thanks for correcting me, Dragannia. I'll try to be more precice :
Assume you have MoR on, and a 20% mod : In case 1 : no benefit (100% already due to MoR) In case 2 : 20% of spells recharge 25% faster, 80% of them recharge 50% faster. I bet it's case 2 that should reflect reality. Just a tad confused by this. Are you saying the mod is for a 25% faster recharge because I thought willcrusher had a 50% faster recharge do dar. Even if it is 25%, how do you get to 80% recharge 50% faster ??
Themis
sorry, i meant 25% of the initial recharge time (75% faster). I should pay more attention while writing...
As for the 80% left, it's due to MoR, in this example.
fatboyslimerr
So you wanna explain more clearly. Say I use Mantra of Recovery, and I've got 20% wand and 20% chakram. Don't these chakrams offer half recharge time. So say we use shame and it triggers MoR, recharge is now 15 seconds, then mod gets triggered thats 7/8 seconds recharge. So 40% chance for an 88% faster recharge. I think you get to 88% by working out 8 seconds is about 10 and shames original recharge is 30 its about 1/3 or 33.33% add that to 50% from MoR = 88% - roughly 80% -- is that right ??
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