Build Blockers. What Is The Problem?

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

In threads i've seen a lot of people complaining about others leaving their skillbars blacked out or not showing. Now is it me or are people not entitled to keeping their builds secret. I mean I just don't get the logic behind some poeple. I mean not everyone wants their build that may be brilliant becoming the next cookie cutter build. Take me for example I have a nice little book filled with my own builds. Yet I refuse to share them. Now why do I not share my builds, because my builds are made to suit my own playing style. As such they are made for my use no one elses. I mean how can people not understand such a simple concept as this?

.killjoy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

Is there a point most builds have a basic standing and to show your skill setup won't hurt you will it since you prob. a wammo? pro. I don't see the point of wasting time just to hide a ss, wammo, nuker, earth ele, mm or any other build.

I guess your complaining aswell? If its so simple just ignore it? correct if your one for simplicity why even make a build and anyways you prob. get your builds from this site aswell with maybe for 5,000 and more people do.

NinjaKai

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

UK

Duality Of The Dragon

Quote:
Originally Posted by .killjoy
Is there a point most builds have a basic standing and to show your skill setup won't hurt you will it since you prob. a wammo? pro. I don't see the point of wasting time just to hide a ss, wammo, nuker, earth ele, mm or any other build.

I guess your complaining aswell? If its so simple just ignore it? correct if your one for simplicity why even make a build and anyways you prob. get your builds from this site aswell with maybe for 5,000 and more people do.
I can see that my post looks like a complaint. However, it's more of a query. Not a well constructed one mind you. But generally i'm just curious into what it is that makes people think they have right to see in many cases demand other peoples builds?

MelechRic

MelechRic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

RA

[ODIN]

N/Mo

Nothing really. I guess if people want to hide their builds then that's fine. It's not rocket science to come up with the build that will get you through certain areas. If you have an idea of what you'll be facing then you just go and find the counter-skills.

People that do "elite" things like solo'ing a hard area doing the new Factions "elite" content are blocking out their builds because they want to feel special for a while. If they handed out the build then any noob that got the build could go off and solo the area. In the case of "elite" missions in Factions it's probably to prevent the next controlling alliance from having an easy time of completing the mission.

One way or another it's not that big of a deal. The people that develop builds usually do so with an iterative process. They go out and figure out what works. Nobody solo'd the Underworld on his/her first time down there. Same goes for the "elite" missions in Factions. These teams went down there over and over and wiped each time, but each wipe they learned what skills they needed to move forward. So they reworked the bars and finally suceeded. Now they don't want to share the bar because that cuts out the thinking other people would have to do.

To me either is fine. If you feel the need to keep things a secret then by all means do so. If there's a need to feel superior for a while then that's fine to.

Lastly, most builds don't end up a secret for too long because you can just watch the skills that someone uses if you're fighting them or teamed with them. Then you just work out the attribute setup on your own and you're done. Again, not rocket science.

Demesis

Demesis

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

You are also forgetting that some people (like me) don't want to share our builds because other people will call our builds 'n00bish'.

I'm a casual player, so I'm not interested in wether my build is n00bish or not. I just want to enjoy the game. So if other people think it's a n00bish build, then they can just go screw themselves. They should stop trying to ruin other people's fun and putting other people down to make themselves feel superior.

Phaern Majes

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

If people want to keep there build secret its cool by me. I figure if ever I have a build worth keeping secret, then people will be able to observe my play in hoh or something and get it anyways. Also as you said, our builds usually suit our style of playing. So giving it out to people won't help them if they don't know how to play it right. I mean if you get an Oath shot trapper who doesn't understand when to use Oath Shot, then the build won't do him any good. Often I'll give out my build if people ask, I just don't tell them how to run it.

Mandy Memory

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

That is how the 55 build became widespread...thus getting nerfed to hell.

kvndoom

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

In reality, nobody likes a braggart. Posting a screenshot and saying "I can solo XXX all by myself, but I'm not going to tell you how!" just makes someone look like a bragging asshole. Pardon my bluntness, but that's simply how people will perceive you if you do such a thing.

When someone feels this terrible itch to tell the world that they can do something nobody else has done yet, is that not bragging? When you help people and tell them how they can be successful like you, you make friends and people WILL remember who did it first. You'll never lose face for helping people. When you brag but then leave people hanging, they don't much care for that.

For a real life analogy, say you won a Corvette in a sweepstakes. Now you go and tell all your friends that you won, you even drive it up to their houses so they can see it, but every time one of them asks to ride in it you refuse. Well, before long they will get sick you and the cherry-red horse you rode in on. Everyone is free to do what they want, but nobody likes a showoff.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Also, if it gets spread around, drop rates will be nerfed or mobs will be changed. I got a great solo spot that nobody knows about (no one of my class is even in any of the districts, especially now that factions is out). I'm not going to spread it around and have it become completely worthless. If one or two people do something, a.net lets it go. If hundreds do it (Augury rock for example), it becomes a problem.

eudas

eudas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Tx, USA

The Infinite Monkeys [TYPE]

W/

i'll echo what others have said here; if you just watch what skills someone uses, you can work out the attribute lines yourself. reverse engineering a successful build isn't as hard as coming up with one in the first place. you're not really keeping anything secret with your little book of builds, unless you party exclusively with henchmen...

eudas

Mournblade

Mournblade

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

Houston, Texas

Dawn Treaders [DAWN]

W/Mo

Considering this is a forum, where the intention is for people to gather and communicate, I think it is the expectation of most people that everyone should share. Otherwise you are behaving exactly as kvndoom has described.

Warskull

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2005

[out]

There are a few reasons:
First of all, if you are in a PvE group the other group members do have a right to ask what you are running. If you refuse to say your skillbar you are hurting your team. Even elite PvP players don't keep their build secret from their allies. If you are running shelter, I need to know to run something else.

Quote:
You are also forgetting that some people (like me) don't want to share our builds because other people will call our builds 'n00bish'.

I'm a casual player, so I'm not interested in wether my build is n00bish or not. I just want to enjoy the game. So if other people think it's a n00bish build, then they can just go screw themselves. They should stop trying to ruin other people's fun and putting other people down to make themselves feel superior.
At the same time groups have the right to organize to a certain level of play. If you want to just play whatever plenty of groups will just pick up whatever random player they find. However, if you join my group as a monk/ele with firestorm I am going to ask you to change if I need a healer. In addition if you listen to the better player you might be pleasantly suprised. I remember teaching one warrior about sever, gash, final instead of Power attack and Gryphon's sweep. He was quite happy with the results.

The second reason is that the blacking out of skills has gotten quite ridiculous. A lot of PvE players tend to blackout everything, even when it is somewhat clear nothing of value is there. Players blacking out their warrior build running chain lightning and lightning strike is just plain silly.

Finally, a lot of the PvPers with the truely good builds are quite open with them. The boon prot is no big secret, they give tips on how to play the E.denial mesmers, once they are finished developing characters and builds you often see them proliferated quite rapidly. Thus blacking out your build makes you just look bad in comparison.

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
In threads i've seen a lot of people complaining about others leaving their skillbars blacked out or not showing. Now is it me or are people not entitled to keeping their builds secret. I mean I just don't get the logic behind some poeple. I mean not everyone wants their build that may be brilliant becoming the next cookie cutter build. Take me for example I have a nice little book filled with my own builds. Yet I refuse to share them. Now why do I not share my builds, because my builds are made to suit my own playing style. As such they are made for my use no one elses. I mean how can people not understand such a simple concept as this?
Stop it.

Huntmaster

Huntmaster

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

I is not canadien

Guillotine Tactics [GanK]

R/

I understand hiding PvP builds, people don't want others to create counters and such, but please, somebody explain the logic behind hiding a PvE build..

The tengu might see it and switch from ignite arrows to apply poison?

Warskull

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jul 2005

[out]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntmaster
I understand hiding PvP builds, people don't want others to create counters and such, but please, somebody explain the logic behind hiding a PvE build..

The tengu might see it and switch from ignite arrows to apply poison?
PvE players just tend to be extremely defensive about their builds, far more so than a lot of PvP guilds. Part of it can be that the good GvG guilds realize it is pretty easy to just copy their build using observer mode and the information tends to proliferate regardless.

A lot of PvE players seem to thing they are a lot better than they really are also. They'll throw mending on their bar and think they are a buildmaking genious.

kryshnysh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Valkyrie Einherjar

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntmaster
I understand hiding PvP builds, people don't want others to create counters and such, but please, somebody explain the logic behind hiding a PvE build..
Because people make comments that have nothing to do with the thread at hand. I've never posted a screenshot with a blacked out skill bar, but if the skill bar wasn't important, why leave it in? Too many people like to make stupid comments "You have mending?! [Your thread stinks.]" with nothing actually added to the thread. Not enough "Live Vicariously is probably better than mending in that case because you have cyclone axe." So why bother showing the skill bar and bringing more excuses for off-topic into it.

Most PvEers want to have fun, not get told they're stupid (or lose), thats why they PvE and don't PvP. Many also like to brag and think they're all that, but some just don't want to deal with off-topic or wasteful comments. So now those people who want to make the wasteful comments (shooting down a braggart is still wasteful; Don't feed the trolls, even if it is fun) instead comment about the blacked-out skill bar.... sounds like a vicious cycle.

Edit: Any other reasons..... see kvndoom, his response was more than sufficient.

semantic

semantic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Think of the positive side of sharing your build. Maybe someone sees it who has also come up with the same thing or something very similar. Then you can share notes and give each other tips on ways to run it. Communicate, learn, etc.

Maxiemonster

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

Oh well, don't expect to be something very unique under most of the "build blockers". I'd say all builds that are effective are out in the open, and the stuff that's hidden isn't all that special.

Personally, I don't hide my build. I don't care about people that tell it sucks, and I might just help someone with it.

Build blockers ftl!

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

It's because people don't want to get laughed at, like that one time a guy brought axe rake without being able to apply deep wound...

Omega X

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow
Exactly. Discrimination.
Ditto.

I just don't know how many threads I've seen where some one says, "Hey, look what I did." and someone goes off topic and rags on the Build that they were using which was completely off topic.

ITs the person's choice whether or not to show their build and no one else should feel privileged to see it. Whether you like it or not.

Huntmaster

Huntmaster

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

I is not canadien

Guillotine Tactics [GanK]

R/

Thats a pretty weak argument, they don't want to be laughed at.. But i guess if that's the only explanation we can come up with..

Reflects pretty bad on the community here.. :/

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

I never block my build and am happy to share them with people. A build is a set of skills and attributes. What really matters is how the skills are executed, timings and fast decision making - which cannot be copied directly.

Tarun

Tarun

Technician's Corner Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2006

The TARDIS

http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/

Some people may very well run a build that they use in GvG's or a PvP area, they black it out so others don't copy it or see what they're using to find out how to defeat them.

robart

robart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Wisconsin

Alpha Wolf Templars [AWT]

W/R

I don't mind when people block their build, but what makes me laugh is when people block their health, energy, equipped items, and other things that aren't really very secretive (by my standards, I guess).

demon dantes

demon dantes

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

ny

Iyanden Wraithguard

Mo/Me

well i for one know i have blacked a build out many of times. reason for this 4 man fow build i was 1 of the main members of archlords b4 we disbanded and it was easy as all hell to figure out what we were. but no so easy to figure out what second profession skills we were using. we were the first 4 man to do fow armor runs in the time we could do it and untill the book nerf noone could duplicate our build. so i d like to beleive that had i not blacked my build out there would have been a ton of cookie grps spamming our build.

Viruzzz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

i can see reasons to block out PvP builds, but PvE just seems pointless, ofcourse, if you aheva a reaææy good build, i can see why you would wanna keep it secret.

but in their defense, tell me one thing that is more annoying that a thread about whatever becomming a flamefest of "omg why the **** are you using X skill, you suck. get a life loser!"
I don't care about other peoples builds. i will rarely copy something directly, i might pick up bits and pieces of the idea behind it, but a build rarely works if you don't know how to play it

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandy Memory
That is how the 55 build became widespread...thus getting nerfed to hell.
Sort of the way it did.A build is more than just a skill bar it is about attributes,rubes and weapons.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

I don't see the point tbh... if you wanna hide your build, fine, but whats the point? I can hardly see Anet striving to nerf Healing Hands because your using it... or perhaps they'll jump on Battle Rage because it happens to be in your build.

I doubt that many rangers use my build for general killing, but i'm not exactly gonna hide it and use the lame excuse of 'its my build customised for my style'. Style means absolutely nothing in this game... do you honesty think the 55 monk is perfectly suited to everyones style? No, it makes money, it works, thats why its used.

Cjlr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

SMS

E/Me

Sometimes I block it because playing with photoshop is fun. But usually, what's the point? Although, there are several good ones; if you don't want to be insulted for your noobish build, or if you don't want your 133† 53[|23†5 stolen...

BTW, typing that leetspeak is really, really painful.

led-zep

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKai
In threads i've seen a lot of people complaining about others leaving their skillbars blacked out or not showing. Now is it me or are people not entitled to keeping their builds secret. I mean I just don't get the logic behind some poeple. I mean not everyone wants their build that may be brilliant becoming the next cookie cutter build. Take me for example I have a nice little book filled with my own builds. Yet I refuse to share them. Now why do I not share my builds, because my builds are made to suit my own playing style. As such they are made for my use no one elses. I mean how can people not understand such a simple concept as this?
because theres always some a-hole who feels the need to criticise a build if they see one and its not to their elitist standard

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

The problem is when people revile their builds and party combos they get duplicated all over the place unfairly. the "COOKIECUTTER BUILD" has long been despised. once a group finds something that works they want to keep that for competition, Not have it exploited and eventually nerfed. So I can't blame people for turning off or blacking out skill and party bars. Typically all you do is turn off the P party Bar, and crop the pic so your skill set is not shown... But if they want to have it so they are blacked out instead. Well its all a question on how you do pics I guess...

But no one can deny the obvious problem of people just looking up a build on the internet and using it instead of experimenting and finding new builds to try on their own. By Blocking out the builds they are actually encouraging people to find their own builds instead of copying what has already been done all over the place.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by led-zep
because theres always some a-hole who feels the need to criticise a build if they see one and its not to their elitist standard
That depends how utterly stupid it is. A B/P Ranger in FoW using Kindle Arrows, Precision Shot, Determined Shot and Hunters Shot (on things that weren't moving anyway)... he had Barrage, he just barely ever used it. Oh and Order necros that never cast and MMs specialising more in curses and blood. Would you not comment on those builds?

chessyang

chessyang

Not far from Elite

Join Date: Apr 2006

Florida

W/

ya i say the area be nurffed and i don't care if you show your build or not. just think you feel *special* i guess.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3019810

heheeheh the build is a simple warrior one (just stay alive) but the area is "nice" for drops.

kryshnysh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Valkyrie Einherjar

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
That depends how utterly stupid it is. A B/P Ranger in FoW using Kindle Arrows, Precision Shot, Determined Shot and Hunters Shot (on things that weren't moving anyway)... he had Barrage, he just barely ever used it. Oh and Order necros that never cast and MMs specialising more in curses and blood. Would you not comment on those builds?
Depends... is the B/P ranger talking about his build, or some uber-leet thing he accomplished? Or is he just asking about a bug or odd drop? In the second case, criticizing is off-topic, and presumes that the person is stupid (maybe they had some REALLY strange reason for that skill set). If on the other hand they are trying to boast about how great they are...

Isis Mordecai

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mo/W

the way i see it, if u have never learned a build from the community then by all means hide your skills(if they are so special). If not, help those who have helped you by posting the build. Not that iv came across any insanely good builds myself but if i did, i'd let people know since iv learned alot from these forums and others.