Dual SB Monk build Fast! Duo UW Fast!
Exile Of Heaven
Ietwat
plz someone say what about this build and have comments, we are trying to make it better, so all advise is needed.
chrisbeebops
I have tried a modified version of this build concept. Vital Blessing isn't needed, and could be replaced by another skill if done differently.
480hp base hp + 35hp shepherd's set + 50hp sup vigor + 45hp while enchanted offhand = 610
You can still use the ffs for 20% enchant 10% recharge.
EDIT: However, Vital Blessing may be needed in order to use superior runes...
480hp base hp + 35hp shepherd's set + 50hp sup vigor + 45hp while enchanted offhand = 610
You can still use the ffs for 20% enchant 10% recharge.
EDIT: However, Vital Blessing may be needed in order to use superior runes...
Exile Of Heaven
u need more then 770 hp 2 survive becuz the aaxtes will inflict deep wound condition so ure hp is lowered for 20%
Excal
Anyways how fast is this build? compared to the standard 55 and SS/SV?
legless_the_elf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excal
Anyways how fast is this build? compared to the standard 55 and SS/SV?
I tried out my variation of this build (Physical resistance instead of prot spirit) and it is in fact MUCH quicker than the standard 55/SS combo (not to mention tons easier), pm me in game when we have favor some day and ill show ya
IGN: The lone chimp
Also, Exile im just letting u know that it is in fact a bad idea to use SoJ cuz of the kd i did the math and it slows down the dmg and makes it more complicated anyways
IGN: The lone chimp
Also, Exile im just letting u know that it is in fact a bad idea to use SoJ cuz of the kd i did the math and it slows down the dmg and makes it more complicated anyways
Exile Of Heaven
yeah we were thinking 2 replace soj for Sig of Judgement instead, cost no energy and does dmg 2.
Well, we did yesterday we did a full uw run, exept the missions there but we the smites, squids, were no problem, as long as ure wearing full Piken Square armor, u get even over 60dmg from Zealot's Fire, wich then also triggers SB, wich works perfect.
The only major problems sofar are: the Terrorweb Dryders, OMG it takes around 4 -5 mins 2 kill one, wich is terribly slow
and the Coldfires, wich are also hard 2 kill, becuz they hardly do dmg, maybe still take SoJ with us becuz that works on ranged attacks also
Well, we did yesterday we did a full uw run, exept the missions there but we the smites, squids, were no problem, as long as ure wearing full Piken Square armor, u get even over 60dmg from Zealot's Fire, wich then also triggers SB, wich works perfect.
The only major problems sofar are: the Terrorweb Dryders, OMG it takes around 4 -5 mins 2 kill one, wich is terribly slow

Exile Of Heaven
Well, Mending can go out becuz i can even duo the Mindblades NOW!!!!!!!!, Ill take frenzy instead of it, and so do the squidies do even over the 60 dmg
ubermancer
What I do is this:
Frontline - Mo/W
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet
Vital Blessing
Blessed Aura
Essence Bond
Backline - Mo/Me
Holy Wrath
Retribution
Balthazars Spirit
Mantra of Inscriptions
Signet of Rage
Signet of Judgement
Blessed Signet
Rebirth
SOJ does slow down the kill speed, its much better to bring Holy Wrath on the backline character. You can keep a fairly high inspiration, 16 smite, and still be able to easily use a superior divine favor rune on the backline monk (as if anythings attacking him its likely too late anyways).
The backline can even run way out of casting range, and still perform his primary function - enchants. Once he has enchants up he only really needs to cast Blessed Signet periodically in order to fuel Mantra of Inscriptions, whose KD effect is justifiable as it deals AOE damage.
The primary tank, however, plays just like a normal 55 monk, except easier. Stagger your casts, and you will never be interupted (1/4 second cast times ftw). If something isnt hitting you hard enough, use Frenzy. Even squids will trigger Spirit Bond then.
Havent actually tried this but once last night, seems sound though. Dont know about killing the casters - terrorwebs and coldfyres, with this, though.
Frontline - Mo/W
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet
Vital Blessing
Blessed Aura
Essence Bond
Backline - Mo/Me
Holy Wrath
Retribution
Balthazars Spirit
Mantra of Inscriptions
Signet of Rage
Signet of Judgement
Blessed Signet
Rebirth
SOJ does slow down the kill speed, its much better to bring Holy Wrath on the backline character. You can keep a fairly high inspiration, 16 smite, and still be able to easily use a superior divine favor rune on the backline monk (as if anythings attacking him its likely too late anyways).
The backline can even run way out of casting range, and still perform his primary function - enchants. Once he has enchants up he only really needs to cast Blessed Signet periodically in order to fuel Mantra of Inscriptions, whose KD effect is justifiable as it deals AOE damage.
The primary tank, however, plays just like a normal 55 monk, except easier. Stagger your casts, and you will never be interupted (1/4 second cast times ftw). If something isnt hitting you hard enough, use Frenzy. Even squids will trigger Spirit Bond then.
Havent actually tried this but once last night, seems sound though. Dont know about killing the casters - terrorwebs and coldfyres, with this, though.
fgarvin
Great job, as my Monk can't heal (I am in no way to blame for this), teaming up like this looks like a good time-killer.
Niet Nart
OK, I have to say that you DO NOT need high health for spirit bond to work. It says that you are healed for BLAH amount if you would have taken 60 damage and prot spirit prevents it.*headache* Um so like if you had 55 health it would work more effeciently becuase if you are only taking 5 damage and so if you would get hit with multiple attacks under 60 damage you can recover full health if you would get hit with just 1 damage over 60 health.... ill post a screenshot later to prove it. Sorry if this was hard to understand, its still hard for me to understand

Niet Nart
Look here:
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niet Nart
OK, I have to say that you DO NOT need high health for spirit bond to work. It says that you are healed for BLAH amount if you would have taken 60 damage and prot spirit prevents it.*headache* Um so like if you had 55 health it would work more effeciently becuase if you are only taking 5 damage and so if you would get hit with multiple attacks under 60 damage you can recover full health if you would get hit with just 1 damage over 60 health.... ill post a screenshot later to prove it. Sorry if this was hard to understand, its still hard for me to understand
No, but high health sure does make Holy Wrath and Retribution kill faster.

Exile Of Heaven
Indeed HW en retri do more dmg als higher youre hp goes!
well, this afternoon we tryed with frenzy!
Ubermancer, u were right, it works great, now even the Squidies do over 60
And let me tell u! we even made it past THE OBSIDIAN BEHEMOTHS!!!!! with just the 2 of us! im soon gonna tell u how 2 do that!
well, this afternoon we tryed with frenzy!
Ubermancer, u were right, it works great, now even the Squidies do over 60
And let me tell u! we even made it past THE OBSIDIAN BEHEMOTHS!!!!! with just the 2 of us! im soon gonna tell u how 2 do that!
yomama6969
wuldnt sb 55 + ss necro be faster?...u just aggro half the ataxes n nightmares at a time....i dont see why ppl dont like that build to begin with....
(how bout this try a ritualist vengeful build with prot spirit?)
(how bout this try a ritualist vengeful build with prot spirit?)
Crazyvietguy
Not sure if this will replace 55/SS but id sure like to see it in action, IGN: Deameon Aluisus, Ill msg one of you ingame sometime, if you dont mind taking me on a run or two.
Great idea
Note: I've too thought about the Vengeful, havnt done anything just thought
Great idea
Note: I've too thought about the Vengeful, havnt done anything just thought

Exile Of Heaven


Well, a ss does around 34 dmg each attack, maybe higher, but with frenzy now, i deal over 50 dmg for each attack, and smites do not have 2 be drained before casting ss , becuz they can't remove HW from me

Remember, i can aggro ANY number becuz of instant heal,


lord of shadow
the squids kill me every time- even with no armour and frenzy- what am i missing here?
Wrath Of Dragons
i would love to see this.
ill try to see ya ingame sometime
ill try to see ya ingame sometime
Exile Of Heaven
Well be sure 2 keep ure enchants up all time, even if they interupt ya, just Recast ASAP, becuz of DF u can stay alive even without Frenzy
Ill be on in weekends most of the time becuz of school

Ill be on in weekends most of the time becuz of school

Jodie O
any chance of filming this in action? pretty pls
Yanman.be
How funny..they try to nerf 55, but with new skills, they made an even better-invinci build (also, this one can stand more hexes and degen!
*Edit* MUST TRY THIS IN RA!
*Edit* MUST TRY THIS IN RA!
oHcHeese
waauw, i'm just realy amazed :O I'm gonna try this out with my guildmate rel soon !
but could you make the guide a bit more clear? It's all so mixed up...a bit of structure would be realy nice !
( If you need any help, just ask me, I realy like this and i'd be honored to help you make it better
)
( you need 570hp , right ?+ vital blessing : 770...so you don't need perfect stuff
so base hp + major vigor + 30hp rod and wand or a +60 staff, hmmm, these could be found at a collector
or a staff with +25 hale and +25 wrapping ! )
but could you make the guide a bit more clear? It's all so mixed up...a bit of structure would be realy nice !

( If you need any help, just ask me, I realy like this and i'd be honored to help you make it better

( you need 570hp , right ?+ vital blessing : 770...so you don't need perfect stuff


Evilsod
You considered bringing Sympathetic Visage and going Mo/Me instead of /W? Frenzy is all good... but interrupts still suck.
I don't see why you need Mending though to counteract Bleeding. Even if SB is healing for the same health you lose each hit and your just losing out from Degen, surely casting the odd skill on yourself (such as another SB) heals you back up.
I like the Holy Wrath/Retribution/Signet of Judgement idea though. If theres space would it be possible to bring along Mantra of Signets aswell as Inscriptions?
I don't see why you need Mending though to counteract Bleeding. Even if SB is healing for the same health you lose each hit and your just losing out from Degen, surely casting the odd skill on yourself (such as another SB) heals you back up.
I like the Holy Wrath/Retribution/Signet of Judgement idea though. If theres space would it be possible to bring along Mantra of Signets aswell as Inscriptions?
Ietwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
I like the Holy Wrath/Retribution/Signet of Judgement idea though. If theres space would it be possible to bring along Mantra of Signets aswell as Inscriptions?
Holy Wrath and Rertibution are meant for damage, and signet of judgement is quite good but u dont actually need it. Ill duo this with Exile and i can tell u its better to take SoJ with you against the dryders cuz the are ranged attacker´s and it takes a while to kill them, ill echo SoJ when we try to get past the Obsidian Behemots (yes this build is able to get past the behemots, and we can reach the top of the Twin Serpent Mountains
)
This weekend ill try to get farther into UW with my brother.
This build is able to duo, far more then 55hp / ss-sv and far more flexible: i got 3 open slots and my brother 2
Im still waiting for Sno to open up another UW challenge: How far can u get into UW?

This weekend ill try to get farther into UW with my brother.
This build is able to duo, far more then 55hp / ss-sv and far more flexible: i got 3 open slots and my brother 2

Im still waiting for Sno to open up another UW challenge: How far can u get into UW?

Exile Of Heaven
Well i can make a video soon of it
asap if my friend gives me the gamecam cd
Ill post the video if were done!
And as i said we did not bring Mending anymore and now we got 7 enchants on me
Sympathetic Visage does not have 2 come, interupt are not a problem, u can recast anytime u want
just keep them up
Draining on smite's does not have 2 be done, becuz its not an hex they can shatter, they dont have spells 2 remove enchants so, u dont need 2 drain
wich i think is way faster
ill do 20 smite group under 15 secs now
lots of smiles
, I'm happy!


Ill post the video if were done!

And as i said we did not bring Mending anymore and now we got 7 enchants on me

Sympathetic Visage does not have 2 come, interupt are not a problem, u can recast anytime u want


Draining on smite's does not have 2 be done, becuz its not an hex they can shatter, they dont have spells 2 remove enchants so, u dont need 2 drain





shaktiboi
Any chance that you two could post the current, updated version of your builds? You've made a lot of changes to it over the course of this thread and its kinda hard to follow
Also a rough "how to" play guide would be extremely useful as well. Who does what? In what order? What are the most important things to be aware of? It doesn't have to be super-detailed; just help us understand the general outline of how you two coordinate your efforts.
And Ubermancer? If you're still lurking this thread, I'd really appreciate a little more description of how you run your listed pair on this thread. Not asking for one of your usual excellent guides; just a little more detail than you put in your previous post on this thread. I'm a bit new to the monking profession and looking for something fun and challenging for my wife and I to duo together without needing to bother with henchies.

Also a rough "how to" play guide would be extremely useful as well. Who does what? In what order? What are the most important things to be aware of? It doesn't have to be super-detailed; just help us understand the general outline of how you two coordinate your efforts.
And Ubermancer? If you're still lurking this thread, I'd really appreciate a little more description of how you run your listed pair on this thread. Not asking for one of your usual excellent guides; just a little more detail than you put in your previous post on this thread. I'm a bit new to the monking profession and looking for something fun and challenging for my wife and I to duo together without needing to bother with henchies.
Exile Of Heaven
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaktiboi
Any chance that you two could post the current, updated version of your builds? You've made a lot of changes to it over the course of this thread and its kinda hard to follow
Well i will update it asap, but im busy with school
I will do it
-----Edit-----
i updated it


I will do it

-----Edit-----
i updated it

sheepush
When can we see you in action ? ^^
Exile Of Heaven
As soon i get Gamecam from my friend
then ill post the link!


Koning
i'm also still dying at the squids...even with frenzy (i have 3 parts of shing jae monastry 15 AL armor). i think the problem is flurry, which cuts their damage output with 25%. maybe u need sv against them (cancel flurry), or just take them together with aatxes
. I would like to have more detail on how u take on the squids (and ofcourse the video
)


silent333x2
Well I definatley am very interested in this and have had my own ideas about it when they created spirit bond. Never though of frenzy though. I'de asume using a low al armor is best so you can take more dmg like la tats armor or something or the low al +hp armor from the presearing island in cantha.
Anways, I still dont't have factions but I'll have it next month once amazon ships my ce. I already have plans with one of my guild mates to start doing this and I will record some footage with fraps from both players perspectives.
Anways, I still dont't have factions but I'll have it next month once amazon ships my ce. I already have plans with one of my guild mates to start doing this and I will record some footage with fraps from both players perspectives.
silent333x2
Hows this?
Spirit Bonder:
mo/w
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet
Life Attunement
Vital Blessing (rebirth as alternat as the extra 211 health is not realy needed)
Balthazars Spirit
Protections: 12+1+1 (or 12+1+3)
Devine: 12+1 (or 12+3)
Smiter:
mo/r
Holy Wrath (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Retribution (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Blessed Aura (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Essence Bond (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Signet of Judgment
Blessed Signet
Symbiosis
Rebirth
Smiting: 12+1+3
Devine: 8+3
Beast Mastery: 10
This makes for lots of extra health, with health well over 1000. Ide imagine the extra hp from symbiosis should make this go much faster.
And 10% from protective spirit on 1000 health = 100 dmg, but thats what life attunement is for. 48% of 96 = 46.08 + 96 = 142.08
That should provide an extra comfort level, even when health goes above 1000 your healing is still much greater than the damage being delt.
With this build an estimated 1600+ health is possible. (thats not including the bonus hp from the enchantments of spirit bond or protective spirit or spellbreaker, with them it gets over 1800 - 2000 health)
10% of 1600 is 160 and you will be healed for 142.08 health each time, meaning you will take damage right? Wrong, thats what devine favor is for :P
Also, all the extra hp means that the spirit bonder can use as many superior runes as he would like.
Spirit Bonder:
mo/w
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet
Life Attunement
Vital Blessing (rebirth as alternat as the extra 211 health is not realy needed)
Balthazars Spirit
Protections: 12+1+1 (or 12+1+3)
Devine: 12+1 (or 12+3)
Smiter:
mo/r
Holy Wrath (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Retribution (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Blessed Aura (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Essence Bond (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Signet of Judgment
Blessed Signet
Symbiosis
Rebirth
Smiting: 12+1+3
Devine: 8+3
Beast Mastery: 10
This makes for lots of extra health, with health well over 1000. Ide imagine the extra hp from symbiosis should make this go much faster.
And 10% from protective spirit on 1000 health = 100 dmg, but thats what life attunement is for. 48% of 96 = 46.08 + 96 = 142.08
That should provide an extra comfort level, even when health goes above 1000 your healing is still much greater than the damage being delt.
With this build an estimated 1600+ health is possible. (thats not including the bonus hp from the enchantments of spirit bond or protective spirit or spellbreaker, with them it gets over 1800 - 2000 health)
10% of 1600 is 160 and you will be healed for 142.08 health each time, meaning you will take damage right? Wrong, thats what devine favor is for :P
Also, all the extra hp means that the spirit bonder can use as many superior runes as he would like.
Exile Of Heaven
Well indeed u can have trouble with the Squidies, and me and my brother take them with the aaxtes, and if u dont, this is the advice!:
Make sure 2 Recast ASAP SB or PS, gives u hp from Divine Favor!
or as i did not mention before, become mesmer 2 take the Elemental Stance(Ele Resistance) 2 get - armor rating and get also dmg, (not tested yet, BUSY with school
and my brother dont want 2 go
)
Keep in mind that the Aaxtes will inflict deepwound and 1k hp is them max becuz each time they do dmg with an attack, u have a deep wound they heal me for 103 hp, and will DO more dmg but u can get dmged by squidies even harder, wich makes it difficult.
Also, the SBer, has 2 energy gain enchants, 2 make sure he gets his energy even from squidies so he can recast as soon as SB or PS is recharged, many have asked me about this, in the Video, wich i hope 2 make soon
i will make it clearly
, and i will show u how 2 get past the Behemots
with 2 MONKS!
Make sure 2 Recast ASAP SB or PS, gives u hp from Divine Favor!
or as i did not mention before, become mesmer 2 take the Elemental Stance(Ele Resistance) 2 get - armor rating and get also dmg, (not tested yet, BUSY with school


Keep in mind that the Aaxtes will inflict deepwound and 1k hp is them max becuz each time they do dmg with an attack, u have a deep wound they heal me for 103 hp, and will DO more dmg but u can get dmged by squidies even harder, wich makes it difficult.
Also, the SBer, has 2 energy gain enchants, 2 make sure he gets his energy even from squidies so he can recast as soon as SB or PS is recharged, many have asked me about this, in the Video, wich i hope 2 make soon



silent333x2
Well I updated my last post check it out.
ubermancer
Quote:
Originally Posted by silent333x2
Hows this?
Spirit Bonder:
mo/w
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet (Defy Pain for an alternate as I'm sure you wont need blessed for the energy)
Life Attunement
Vital Blessing
Balthazars Spirit
Protections: 12+1+1 (or 12+1+3)
Devine: 12+1 (or 12+3)
Smiter:
mo/r
Holy Wrath (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Retribution (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Blessed Aura (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Essence Bond (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Signet of Judgment
Blessed Signet
Symbiosis
Rebirth
Smiting: 12+1+3
Devine: 8+3
Beast Mastery: 10
This makes for lots of extra health, with health well over 1000. Ide imagine the extra hp from symbiosis should make this go much faster.
And 10% from protective spirit on 1000 health = 100 dmg, but thats what life attunement is for. 48% of 96 = 46.08 + 96 = 142.08
That should provide an extra comfort level, even when health goes above 1000 your healing is still much greater than the damage being delt.
With this build an estimated 1600+ health is possible. (thats not including the bonus hp from the enchantments of spirit bond or protective spirit or spellbreaker, with them it gets over 1800 - 2000 health)
10% of 1600 is 160 and you will be healed for 142.08 health each time, meaning you will take damage right? Wrong, thats what devine favor is for :P
Also, all the extra hp means that the spirit bonder can use as many superior runes as he would like. Ewww.
There NO reason to push your health over past ~750, which is where Holy Wrath (w/ Protective Spirit) maxes out, unless you want to switch to high AL armor, and simply tank the squids out while a backline kills em (which is an idea, even if Im not immediatly convinced of its feasibility).
Intentionally pushing it over past what spirit bond can heal is ludicrious. Your supposed to take to damage per hit (~15dps/mob) and outheal that with DIVINE FAVOR alone? The 40 or so points youll get from DF max will NOT sufficient to heal you with more then a few mobs on you... and even then, it mandates spamming - which is a bad thing.
EDIT: Pretty sure you mean Endure Pain, not Defy Pain.
Spirit Bonder:
mo/w
Spellbreaker
Frenzy
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Blessed Signet (Defy Pain for an alternate as I'm sure you wont need blessed for the energy)
Life Attunement
Vital Blessing
Balthazars Spirit
Protections: 12+1+1 (or 12+1+3)
Devine: 12+1 (or 12+3)
Smiter:
mo/r
Holy Wrath (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Retribution (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Blessed Aura (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Essence Bond (Casts on Spirit Bonder)
Signet of Judgment
Blessed Signet
Symbiosis
Rebirth
Smiting: 12+1+3
Devine: 8+3
Beast Mastery: 10
This makes for lots of extra health, with health well over 1000. Ide imagine the extra hp from symbiosis should make this go much faster.
And 10% from protective spirit on 1000 health = 100 dmg, but thats what life attunement is for. 48% of 96 = 46.08 + 96 = 142.08
That should provide an extra comfort level, even when health goes above 1000 your healing is still much greater than the damage being delt.
With this build an estimated 1600+ health is possible. (thats not including the bonus hp from the enchantments of spirit bond or protective spirit or spellbreaker, with them it gets over 1800 - 2000 health)
10% of 1600 is 160 and you will be healed for 142.08 health each time, meaning you will take damage right? Wrong, thats what devine favor is for :P
Also, all the extra hp means that the spirit bonder can use as many superior runes as he would like. Ewww.
There NO reason to push your health over past ~750, which is where Holy Wrath (w/ Protective Spirit) maxes out, unless you want to switch to high AL armor, and simply tank the squids out while a backline kills em (which is an idea, even if Im not immediatly convinced of its feasibility).
Intentionally pushing it over past what spirit bond can heal is ludicrious. Your supposed to take to damage per hit (~15dps/mob) and outheal that with DIVINE FAVOR alone? The 40 or so points youll get from DF max will NOT sufficient to heal you with more then a few mobs on you... and even then, it mandates spamming - which is a bad thing.
EDIT: Pretty sure you mean Endure Pain, not Defy Pain.
silent333x2
This was only just a thought that I need to have critiqued since I do not have factions yet to test with spirit bond. The extrodanarily high hp is only used in certain cases where you would be inflicted with a deep wound or have defile flesh on you or any other type of regen. I still firmly believe that this type of build with higher hp can clear almost all of the uw to try to get farther than anyone else.
BTW, thanks for correction on defy pain. It's now set to endure pain.
Anyways I belive the sweetspot for this is around 1200 health since you will have maxinum damage output even with a deep wound and also be able to outheal the damage being delt.
This is also meant to save on money since you will not need any offhand to provide any extra health and no vigor rune is required.
This alows the spirit bonder to use a superior protection and a superior devine so that spirit bond is now healing for 104 and life attunement will increase that by 52%.
BTW, thanks for correction on defy pain. It's now set to endure pain.
Anyways I belive the sweetspot for this is around 1200 health since you will have maxinum damage output even with a deep wound and also be able to outheal the damage being delt.
This is also meant to save on money since you will not need any offhand to provide any extra health and no vigor rune is required.
This alows the spirit bonder to use a superior protection and a superior devine so that spirit bond is now healing for 104 and life attunement will increase that by 52%.
NumberTheory
Spirit bond is applied before prot spirit... so it triggers even if your hp is 225 or such and prot spirit is on
legless_the_elf
Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberTheory
Spirit bond is applied before prot spirit... so it triggers even if your hp is 225 or such and prot spirit is on
Seconded:this will save u a lot of trouble but make sure you WOULD be taking 60+ dmg without PS
silent333x2
But is it also trigered before the damage is reduced by your al?