pve discrimination

i really dont know if this has been discussed already, but im seriously getting sick and tired of it. i was in arborstone today looking for some group that was actually halfway decent, and unfortunately, im an assassin primary....

i cant believe how many people would rather take a henchman than an actual player.

or take ANOTHER (and by another i mean 3rd or 4th) wammo than an assassin...

i cant believe that by leaving for just one second, and coming back to the same place, then trying to self invite into the same group that i was just in, that i could lose my spot, and have the leader give me some bull excuse that my "monk buddy" bailed on the group

i cant believe that i didnt get back into a group that i was with that was actually doing REALLY well in the mission just that the monks didnt have the mind to heal danika for just a little bit to keep her alive when she was doing her thing late in the mission

i hate that people automatically do not accept assassins thinking right away that they suck and will always die, or will aggro the nearest group or all the groups etc...

i hate that most assassins are rejected, even though there are currently NO assassins in the group, i mean i can understand if there are 2 assassins already but come on... assassins WHEN USED THE RIGHT WAY, are a valuable asset....

i despise that assassins have to be lectured in every group they join with the "ur not a tank" and the whole "u better not die" or " i better not have to heal u a hell of a lot" ...

its unbelieveable , just ridiculous, and super super gay.... that FORGET IT...

story of the "monk buddy" bailing
some monk/mes in my kurzick alliance kept telling the leader to get rid of one of the wammo's... he had 4 in the group... i mean geeze 1 or 2 too many? dontcha think? and then i finally got accepted into the group on his word, then after getting so close to finishing the mission the mo/me bailed, and then i said "yo can u wait while i just go do something real fast"
he replies "yea sure"
so there i go and i return and self invite and he just says " ur monk buddy bailed on us"
now im thinkin "wtf does that have to do with ME........" so anyway

i cant believe that i wasnt taken back into the group... i can honestly say that i kept my dp < or = 15% so in other words i wasnt constantly dying and keeping 1 of the 2 monks that we had on me the whole time. i even told one of the monks to take and enchantment off of me (mending) just kuz im an assassin and just kuz my armor is 70... 10 less than warriors doesnt mean im always going to be the one to die first... or die at all for that matter, one of the monks in the group of 8 had 60 dp before the roof even STARTED falling...

anyway __________________ ill stop it here bcuz this is getting too long and i really dont want to keep just typing a stupid story about a stupid person who obviously doesnt appreciate the addition of a new class (and pleading mind you) of a person to get back into his/her group, yes thats right BACK into the group ive already played with them once...




ANYWAY.... ugh... bye

~TROY

If I want to finish a mission, and my experiences with A/x's are typically bad, then I don't want Sins in my group, plain and simple. Remember, most people play this game for themselves..you think I farm a lot to help guildies/new players ? No, I just want new armor. Why should I risk having to do a mission (one that you may have already done many times) just because you can't get a group?

(This is just opinion mind you, I don't join PUGS regardless)
And don't be insulted if someone would pick a henchie over you...theres a reason so many people use henchies all the time..(<-)
often times, they ARE better than humans.

And I don't know if you have/played GW:P, but being a whammo only joining pugs, doing THK is a bitch. Sitting for hours looking for groups, just to continually fail.



And honestly, why would a monk bring mending in the first place? I have never used it outside W/mo and 55 farming.

Sin is getting the same love as messmer's in pugs.

So far, I've npc everything with sin up to this point, execept when I've had a chance to party with my friends.

I perfer real players but since my goal is to get my max 1.5k armor and all the skills for sin and then I will be happy.

I've taken my ele and monk through this game with just random pug's and friends but it's been more lonely with my sin.

When the sin "newness" where's off, things should improve, at worst we get in to the same catgory as mesmer's do. When we know how to play our character, we can rock in any pug... but since we could be misunderstood (messmer) or there too many bad players that give us a bad name...

Quote: Sin is getting the same love as messmer's in pugs. The difference is that Assassins are actually popular with players, but not with people wanting a decent group. Most assassins are so ridiculously clueless that it's best to simply not take one.

Mesmers, on the other hand, aren't really mainstream, but the bigger problem is that they usually don't accomplish an essential task that some other character isn't already doing. I'd still take Mesmies over Assassins any day, simply because the Mesmer is more likely to not do stupid crap to kill the team.

HOW TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NOOB ASSASSIN AND A PRO ONE

Ask these simple questions and add up points and you'll have a good idea of if you have a good assassin or a bad one.

Do you have any Tele skills, if so what are they?

4 points: Whats a Tele Skill?
3 points: No
2 points: yes death's charge
1 Point: Yes Recall/Aura of Displacement and/not Death's Charge


Do you have any Defensive/running stances?

4 points: What are those?
3 points: No
2 points: Yes I have one thats only lasts a little bit OR no I just use tele skills
1 points: Yes I have a few good ones


What do you do to attack the monsters?

4 points: I just run in and try and kill them
3 points: I have no stances and stuff but I run away when I'm in trouble
2 points: I run in and use my stances when I'm attacked
1 points: I teleport in kill my target and teleport back before the ememies can attack me.

if you scored

10+ Kick this noob and post in on guru so we all know who the noob is (I don't mean the last part)
7-9 Most likely a noob don't accept in high areas
5-6 This person know what he is doing accepting isn't much of a risk
3-4 THIS IS A MOST LIKELY PRO ACCEPT HIM AND BOOT THE WAMMO!!

I think assasins have gotten a bad name probably for the great reason of everyone and thier dog has one. In any class you'll have people that are good at it and people that aren't. I say once the popularity of the 2 new classes goes away and the novelty is done you'll find yourself not being descriminated so much. When myself and my husband got the preorder, i made a mesmer and he mad an assasin and he ended up deleting it because its a weird class, it has mele weapons, but its not supposed to tank. I feel your pain though, but like i said hopefully it will end when the big rush for the new chars end

I usually don't start my own groups, but I have been in quite a few where I've watched the leader choose other classes over Assassins in a heartbeat, without thinking twice.

There are just SO many "bad" Assassins out there that it seems people just don't want to risk it. Because of this, I decided against starting an Assassin of my own. There ARE good Assassins out there, I know it, I have seen them in action. And when they know what they're doing, they're really quite effective, and are pretty fun to watch. I'd love to group up with a few more of the good ones in the future.

I'm hoping that the idea of "it's a new class...give people time to figure it out" is what's going on. It would suck to have the class permanently stuck in its current stereotype. :/

Quote: Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Quote: Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light HOW TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NOOB ASSASSIN AND A PRO ONE

Ask these simple questions and add up points and you'll have a good idea of if you have a good assassin or a bad one.

Do you have any Tele skills, if so what are they?

4 points: Whats a Tele Skill?
3 points: No
2 points: yes death's charge
1 Point: Yes Recall/Aura of Displacement and/not Death's Charge


Do you have any Defensive/running stances?

4 points: What are those?
3 points: No
2 points: Yes I have one thats only lasts a little bit OR no I just use tele skills
1 points: Yes I have a few good ones


What do you do to attack the monsters?

4 points: I just run in and try and kill them
3 points: I have no stances and stuff but I run away when I'm in trouble
2 points: I run in and use my stances when I'm attacked
1 points: I teleport in kill my target and teleport back before the ememies can attack me.

if you scored

10+ Kick this noob and post in on guru so we all know who the noob is (I don't mean the last part)
7-9 Most likely a noob don't accept in high areas
5-6 This person know what he is doing accepting isn't much of a risk
3-4 THIS IS A MOST LIKELY PRO ACCEPT HIM AND BOOT THE WAMMO!! Who wants to go through all that hassle to question all that to every Assasin about whether to let him in your PVE party or not?

Having a no Assassin policy saves all the time, hassle, and effort of going through that questionaire.

If im in a mission id rather take hench than an assassin or warrior, the hench on average do a better job imo.

I must say...I would prefer a henchman to an assassin...because there is a 99.99% chance they are kamakazi...without the destruction on impact part.

i accept one or probably two assassins in my group..to get rid of monk or ritualist in the mob..a noob assassin can be distressing and a pro assassin can be a joy to behold..=D

well.....if we stand back a big perspective helps.

Assns are a class that is nuanced, and it's going to get some getting used to. There hasn't been a hit and run class yet, either just hit, or stay the hell back. People are going to have to get used to playing this style.

In the PUG's I've been in, it's pretty much always the assns that go down fast and first, putting the monk in a tough spot: either waste time/energy rezzing, or concentrate on the players that can keep themselves up.

I wouldn't get too discouraged so soon. If assns need to be balanced better skillwise, I'd hope they'll get buffed. If people just need to get used to using them the way they were supposed to be used (and there's no guide which says this, it's up to us to figure it out), then I'm sure that'll happen too.

well, i support the idea of buffing assassin (in a small way)..but i guess the players need more time to get acquainted with the gameplay of assassin

just a quick question, comparing assassin to warrior, who has the most damage output or pretty much the same? just want to get some opinion from the vets as i do not have much insight into warrior class..

The Assassin discrimination is just uncalled for. Granted the mass amount of reckless "look at me, I can tank" n00bs playing said class warrents the hate, but now a lot of groups aren't taking Assassins at all, which is just bollocks.

Henchies get boring really fast...Stop the hate.

Those first few missions with the afflicted seem to do a number on assasins. Multiple soul explosions, or whatever, seem to do a number on their armor. Especially if they're still running around in the starter set(Which I saw a lot of).

Quote: Originally Posted by OP

Ya I hear ya buddy - for the record i do accept one or 2 assasins in my missions and ask them nicely to bring a kind of self heal to reduce stress on monks - then i just ask them to prioritize only hitting monk/rt/mes in that order....honestly haven't lost a mission the whole game with them in it...but I do pressure if they don't stick to the plan.

IMO - what has worked for me in the past is not typing something like lfg-assasin/* -but typing something that shows u definately know what ur doing like

->Skilled Sin great w/ Recall-Aura of D - use Defensive skills - Teleporting maniac looking for organized group that listens.

I have used an approach like this for my elem and warr ...actually all my chars when trying to do FoW or Sorrow's - it makes people see that u know what you're doing and u listen/fight well -->and they better be that way too I end up getting picked up waaaaaaay faster

Hope this helps you too


BTW -Navaros for reposting - great questionaire lol !

Ok, Ive been using things such as way of perfection and critical eye to keep myself alive, and if I need energy, or need to spam health abit, I use flurry(since I am A/W after all). This heals me just fine and I dont see why doing such is so wrong, if I can heal myself, keep the aggro off me, and attack for good dmg, then what the hell is the problem?

I think the problem here is that so many high level assassins are unskilled.

Since you gain experience so fast in factions, an assassin can easily be level 20 without really having any idea how to play the character. While this is true of any character created in cantha, assassins have been the most popular new character so there has been a huge influx of them joining the game.

Usually when I have an assassin in the group I'm in, it spends most of it's time aggroing prematurely, in a state of near death, dead, or yelling at the monk(s) for not keeping him alive. As an example, I was forming a group for Tahnakai Temple, and a new build of the game came out. I already had 7 in the group, and I didn't want to have to deal w/ reforming, so I decided to just take the next person to invite themselves. It was an assassin. We had one monk and one rt/mo in the group. So we start, and everything is going pretty smoothly, except out assassin keeps dying. We get to the third group, and the assassin dies and starts having a fit.

Assassin: monk wtf
Me: we've only got one monk dude
Assassin: so?
Me: so that means you need to be more careful.
Assassin: wtf

So we rez him, he dies one more time, and we just keep going without him. Then he ragequit. We finished the mission just fine without him, but probably would have done better with the healer henchman.

Everyone has a handful of assassin stories like this. The problem is, you remember stuff like this a lot better than you remember someone just doing their job and not dying. I'm sorry, but competent assassins are in the minority, and the sucky ones are ruining your chances of finding groups. It might not be "fair," but I'd rather take a henchie than someone who's going to make the mission harder to complete.