Ok ive been playing around with a build in RA and TA and it seems to do very well. I can kill most casters in one combo and can take a sizeable chunk off a warrior. The problem is however when i face a good healer. I have no way to stop them healing or limit them in someway besides one interupt every 10 seconds which is pretty unlikely to knock out a major skill. Really i can only afford to drop one skill and still be abe to do what i do effectively.
I realise it wont be great but as it is i get them to within an inch of their life only to have them heal back up in seconds! Just someway to stall them or maybe add some extra dmg to stop them getting the chance to heal.
All help will be gratefully appreciated!
Caster hate
Isileth
Trixz
In the "True Assassin Thread" the OP insightfully points out you have to wait until the monk is getting overextended, low on energy, or did something stupid(can't count on that one). Try just observing the battle and wait for that perfect moment to unleash your combo and give the target hell.
-Trixz
-Trixz
Isileth
Ive never actually found a monk to run low on energy. Ive hunted one for over 4 mins with him healing himself and the team with no problems. Really i want a way to force these situations upon the enemy not wait for them to make a mistake. I was considering taking some form of e denial skill but with only 1 and at very low lvl i cant see it helping much.
Silent Kitty
To take out good monks, an A/Me would be very mean. There is so much you can do with that combo.
I am testing spells like Wastrel's Worry and Blackout on monks. Maybe that works.
I am testing spells like Wastrel's Worry and Blackout on monks. Maybe that works.
Stayfrosty
I concur, Boon Prot is the bane of all that is evil in the assassins eyes, Im thinking shroud of shadows will put a big hurt on them so im going to go try and cap it and see how it works today
Phades
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
To take out good monks, an A/Me would be very mean. There is so much you can do with that combo.
I am testing spells like Wastrel's Worry and Blackout on monks. Maybe that works. You can combo out blackout on a caster for around 30s of dead time if there is no hex removal present.
Temple strike is by far more flexable though.
I am testing spells like Wastrel's Worry and Blackout on monks. Maybe that works. You can combo out blackout on a caster for around 30s of dead time if there is no hex removal present.
Temple strike is by far more flexable though.
DieInBasra
How do you kill a monk as a lone assassin? The answer is simple-you don't. Monks only drop when you focus them as a team, trying to create an assassin to 1v1 a monk is silly. If you were to try though, I think Temple Strike is your best bet, though CoPing monks might ruin your day. BoonProts are pretty immune to intterupts, so I wouldn't really add too many of those. Useing Knockdowns or Blackout to try kill the monk in the timeframe that they're down are also good options, but require a bit of teamwork.
Dodo The Extinct
Shoud Of SIlence owns imo. When u use it, it does not mess up blackout, so u can use blackout when it ends. I was using it on my mesmer last night, and I could easily shutdown a monk for 16 seconds without breaking a sweat 
And, I saw EviL using it in the ESL championships, so it must be good
And, I saw EviL using it in the ESL championships, so it must be good
Beta1113
Just a thought here.
Since you said you only have one slot to play around with, try A/N and use "Gaze of Contempt."
Has a long casting time but it should severly hurt monks that have to take forever and a day before the fight begins to lay down enchantments.
Since you said you only have one slot to play around with, try A/N and use "Gaze of Contempt."
Has a long casting time but it should severly hurt monks that have to take forever and a day before the fight begins to lay down enchantments.
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
Temple strike is by far more flexable though.
Temple Strike is horribly inflexible. Not only does it require a lead attack to connect first, it has a very bad recharge. Dazed is only a condition too, and isn't that difficult to remove. There is nothing you can do about Blackout.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Temple Strike is horribly inflexible. Not only does it require a lead attack to connect first, it has a very bad recharge. Dazed is only a condition too, and isn't that difficult to remove. There is nothing you can do about Blackout.
Shroud of silence does nothing to people who do not cast. That is where being "flexable" comes into play. Shroud of silence is also a removable, because it is a hex and it takes more than one person to get a decent hex stack going and it is still vulnerable to CoP like temple strike is.
Shroud of silence's recharge is worse than temple strike and blackout kills your own bar negating things like adrenaline charge and combos. There is nothing in the assasin lines that really assists the blackout skill specifically, so what is your point exactly?
Shroud of silence's recharge is worse than temple strike and blackout kills your own bar negating things like adrenaline charge and combos. There is nothing in the assasin lines that really assists the blackout skill specifically, so what is your point exactly?
Maria The Princess
you know a monk is low on energy when he casts nothing but occasional orisons and rare healing breeses. to take down a monk fast, have a bleeding, poison, spike combo. drop on him bleeding + poison, then use a some spike. i good spike is usinpecting strike. even if its lead, i think smarter to have 2 leads and 1 offhand, then 123 combo. if a ranger interrups you you are not handicaped.
Isileth
Ok im going to try out gaze of contempt. I didnt for for enchantment removal before because getting 1 every 20s didnt seem worth it. If i can knock out a whole lot in one go it would deffinately be a major advantage. Thanks for all the replys!
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
Shroud of silence does nothing to people who do not cast. That is where being "flexable" comes into play. Shroud of silence is also a removable, because it is a hex and it takes more than one person to get a decent hex stack going and it is still vulnerable to CoP like temple strike is.
Shroud of silence's recharge is worse than temple strike and blackout kills your own bar negating things like adrenaline charge and combos. There is nothing in the assasin lines that really assists the blackout skill specifically, so what is your point exactly? I was specifically comparing Temple Strike and Blackout, you mentioned that one was more flexible than the other, I disagree. Since you quoted a post that had no mention of Shroud of Silence, I can't understand why you would bring it up. If I misunderstood what you were talking about, I apologise.
Shroud of silence's recharge is worse than temple strike and blackout kills your own bar negating things like adrenaline charge and combos. There is nothing in the assasin lines that really assists the blackout skill specifically, so what is your point exactly? I was specifically comparing Temple Strike and Blackout, you mentioned that one was more flexible than the other, I disagree. Since you quoted a post that had no mention of Shroud of Silence, I can't understand why you would bring it up. If I misunderstood what you were talking about, I apologise.
Silent Kitty
Blackout (Monk panicks and runs) -> Spirit Walk + Black mantis trust + Jungle Strike + Horns of the Ox = Bye Bye Monk.
Don't forget to wear the armour that gives you the most energy
Don't forget to wear the armour that gives you the most energy
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
Blackout (Monk panicks and runs) -> Spirit Walk + Black mantis trust + Jungle Strike + Horns of the Ox = Bye Bye Monk.
I dont get it. You use Blackout, then use those skills on the monk immediately after ?
Silent Kitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
I dont get it. You use Blackout, then use those skills on the monk immediately after ?
This thread is about caster killing, right? So you take away the ability to respond by casting Blackout, and most likely the caster will run away. Than you criple him/her and kill. If the caster is low on energy, you might want to cast Blackout after your first combo, if it still lives.
Phades
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Originally Posted by fallot
Quote:
This thread is about caster killing, right? So you take away the ability to respond by casting Blackout, and most likely the caster will run away. Than you criple him/her and kill. If the caster is low on energy, you might want to cast Blackout after your first combo, if it still lives.
Then you arent using blackout as a scare tactic to make them seperated for your combo to work. Otherwise you are just as easily setup to waste the combo in a block/evade setup by the monk on your approach/teleport. Alternativly, you dont have enough points in dagger mastery to really put that much punishment into it or abysmal energy recovery due to the near complete abscense of critical strikes skill.
Silent Kitty
Yes, my bad. I forgot the little side effect of having my own skills dissabled for 5 seconds. That makes Blackout kinda useless, if I want to kill the caster, unless I failed and have to recall. Hmm, nevermind. This will hardily work.
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silent Kitty
Yes, my bad. I forgot the little side effect of having my own skills dissabled for 5 seconds. That makes Blackout kinda useless, if I want to kill the caster, unless I failed and have to recall. Hmm, nevermind. This will hardily work.
It works the other way around, its not so bad.
Silent Kitty
Yes, cast recall on a support character. Shadowstep in, attack, see if you can kill. When it doesn't work, cast Blackout, and recall. I don't think that there have to be attr. points in Domination, unless you want to cast Backfire instead, and try to stay for the kill. When you have enough energy left, that might be an option. Not many players will expect an assassin to attack with mesmer spells as well.
My lvl 17 noobie assa has: Domination 6 (Which does 77 damage (With Backfire) every time the caster casts) Dagger mastery 12 Shadow Arts 5 Critical Strikes 9 Not deadly, but close
Silent Kitty
- oops - Double post.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Warriors yes, not Assassins. You can AoD in, use a dagger combo, blackout, AoD out. It requires minimal attribute investment. You have to wait for chain recharges anyway, so having your skills affected by Blackout isnt so big a deal.
Like i said, specialized builds. A hammer build war can do essentially the same thing with blackout following a k/d chain due to adrenalin being spent completely if the target is still alive. The point was gauging if its worth the investment and downtime following the blackout for the user. This typically isnt the case without a fairly sizeable domination investment, but can be pulled off.
The better question is, what else are you getting out of your domination point investment beyond the blackout, nevermind the mesmer secondary in general.
LightningHell
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fallot
It works the other way around, its not so bad.
I don't get how that would be the other way around. With Blackout you disable both your skills AND your target's.
Also, factor in Distortion sometime. Just a caster throwing in random snippets.
fallot
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Originally Posted by Lightning Hell
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Originally Posted by Phades
Like i said, specialized builds.
Only if you think AoD + a dagger combo is specialized.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Only if you think AoD + a dagger combo is specialized.
AoD is not blackout or another other form of shutdown.
fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
First you said that Blackout only had a place in specialized builds for Assassins, I responded by giving you an example of the most common multi-role Assassin build where you could put Blackout and make it work. So what are you responding to ? I have no idea what you're on about, I wouldn't even have known you were responding to my post unless I saw my name quoted. Nowhere did I imply that AoD is shutdown, only that AoD + a dagger combo is not a specialized build. Therefore, your previous point that Blackout only has a place on specialized builds is false.
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
First you said that Blackout only had a place in specialized builds for Assassins, I responded by giving you an example of the most common multi-role Assassin build where you could put Blackout and make it work. So what are you responding to ? I have no idea what you're on about, I wouldn't even have known you were responding to my post unless I saw my name quoted. Nowhere did I imply that AoD is shutdown, only that AoD + a dagger combo is not a specialized build. Therefore, your previous point that Blackout only has a place on specialized builds is false. When you blackout and leave combat with the target via canceled AoD, you instantly negate the pressure built up on the target, which is the point initially if the spike fails and requires the use of blackout in the first place. You are going in a very strange tangent about aod+dagger combo, which has nothing to do with blackout. fallot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phades
When you blackout and leave combat with the target via canceled AoD, you instantly negate the pressure built up on the target, which is the point initially if the spike fails and requires the use of blackout in the first place. |
Quote: Originally Posted by Phades You are going in a very strange tangent about aod+dagger combo, which has nothing to do with blackout. There is a failure of communication here at some point. I don't know what you're talking about, you don't seem to know what I'm talking about. Strange tangent you say ? How is it strange ? Isn't AoD + a dagger combo an example of a non-specialized build where blackout can be added and made to work ? Isn't that the reply that I should give against your point ? (which I'll quote here):
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phades
blackout is probably one of the worst skills for wars and assasins to bring outside of overly specialized builds
Like I said before, Blackout on warriors is a bad idea. On Assassins ? Not bad at all, it doesn't even require a high degree of specialization, which I've beaten to death above already.
Bloodied Blade
I've found something rather interesting in PvP... I monk a lot in pvp and find that the generic GPS/Horns/Spider/Fangs combo gets me because I get knocked down and can't combat the degen and conditions fast enough to save myself (if I CoP the assassin just does it again 1-2 seconds later).
SL_Sky
If we're only talking about casters, the obvious Disrupting Stab+Temple Strike +Exhausting Assault does the trick...
You can use Serpents Quickness for faster recharge and Critical Eye+Sharpen Daggers for added damage... This is HIGHLY specialzed though, and u can't kill anyhing else with it, but it's quite the caster-bane... (and u still have 2 slots to play with...)
Phades
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Negate the pressure built up on the target ? You're going to be teleporting out anyway, unless you like spending time in backlines with 70 armor. But that shouldn't even be discussed, you're not obligated to teleport out, its just an example of a place where Blackout doesn't interfere with an ordinary assassin build. I didn't even say it was good. Just disagreeing with a single point you made where you said that Blackout could only find a place on specialized Assassin builds.
You arent creating shutdown over time and you are not creating pressure on the target. It makes no sense to do so, since the target being blacked out has no threat towards your own survival.
The dagger combo doing damage has nothing to do with shutting down the target and everything to do with killing the target. Blackout without continued pressure has nothing to do with killing the target. This is the odd tangent you are going off on. There is no point in blacking out the target if the combo fails at that point as you would already be relying upon someone else to finish your job for you due to the teleporting out. To actually take advantage of the shutdown it provides and work as a shutdown character requires a specialized build for any melee character. The failure is you are not representing your point in game mechanics, merely attempting to say you can use a gimmic to be relativly safe while your own skill bar is blacked out. This is not the point of blackout, but is the point of AoD. Blacking out the target when you leave doesnt change anything except cause downtime for yourself. In other words, its rather pointless in any situation. If you stayed to kill the target and didnt have blackout that monk would be using his time to heal himself anyway instead of other people he could have been healing that using blackout prevents. Staying or not staying is irrellevant without the proper attribute investment in domination as well, otherwise you still come up short due to the target becoming active again before you are. In which case, you would be better off just using gale for shutdown/control purposes. |