BoTM

Hemophiliac

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 May 2006 at 02:34 - 1

who needs it to heal minions anymore, why sac your health? Just get Heal Area and Kiera's Magic Circle (or whatever it is called the factions version of Heal Area). 2 heal areas gets them healed up fast and keeps you alive. Of course you need factions to do it.

Lil Macabre

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

North Pole

AnA

Rt/

17 May 2006 at 02:53 - 2

Why use BOTM? Well when your minions are off and running around how else are you gonna keep them alive during battle? Heal area has a small radius. So unless you plan to hug your minions to heal them, dont use BOTM. Botm has a godly range. Just bring breeze or something before you start sacrificing health. Also, botm has about the same amount of healing, i think i get around +122 per minion if i remember right.

kaldak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

17 May 2006 at 03:04 - 3

Better range, energy cost, and recharge time make BotM the superior MM skill, as it should have been from the start.

Raziel665

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

N/Mo

17 May 2006 at 06:37 - 4

I mostly use Heal Area for a selfheal or to heal teammates/NPC's in Fort Aspenwood.

Zaka

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/Mo

17 May 2006 at 10:14 - 5

Take a look at the pick. Check the compass. See the range.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3023845

Heal area use to be good in combo with Verata Sac and BotM, but you don't need heal area any more.

masteroflife

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

17 May 2006 at 11:43 - 6

If you don't use BOTM, then how are u going to heal them during battle? You wanna heal ur enemies too? The allied monk should be able to heal you when you cast BOTM every 5-10 seconds during battle. Or you could use blood renewal which i find very usefull.

Hidden Prayers

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 May 2006 at 11:46 - 7

There are plenty of ways to heal yourself staying within necromancy.
I think the point of how useful BotM is has already been made.

I like the following to keep health high:
ToD + Death Nova on flesh golem--If flesh golem is recharged then I just watch my golem's health until it drops below half. Kill and raise.

Blood Renewal--If you start off with this then start using BotM, then you can Sac down to fairly low health and then the end effect of Renewal kicks in.

Vampiric Horrors--These are actually my main method of healing within battle. If one happens to be low on health, they are a ToD+DN target. If i miss watching one's health, then at least they provide good energy.

Granted most of these are factions based.

Undead Preacher

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Scribes of Cantha (USoC)

17 May 2006 at 12:52 - 8

using monk skills to heal your minions.... well that tells me you are a much weaker MM then those who don't and here's why

With 16 death magic and 13 Soul Reaping you will always have full energy... now your complaining because your sacrificing health, well if you mix in some vampric horrors with your bone fiends and flesh golem then they heal you.. I constantly spam BotM and my health is always full thanks to my vamps!

Using skills like heal area are so inferior to BotM... your minions don't stand by your side when you fight so that makes Heal Area useless.... and it cost more energy than BotM not to mention your minions can be a mile away and it will still heal them.... the strongest MM is a Pure MM...

Why use non-necro skills when everything you need is already in your arsenal!

what do you do for energy if your putting points into healing prayers??

edited by sno: removed flame

Hemophiliac

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 May 2006 at 14:12 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

using monk skills to heal your minions.... well that tells me you are a much weaker MM then those who don't and here's why

I've played MM for over 9 months and this is the first time I have taken Monk as Secondary, so dont jump to conclusions. Here's what I have been doing, 16 death, 13 soul reaping (superior rune soon to test at 11 soul reaping) and rest in healing at 8 (heal areas each 110). By the time the 2nd one is casted the first is nearly recharged.

Quote: Originally Posted by Undead Preacher With 16 death magic and 13 Soul Reaping you will always have full energy... now your complaining because your sacrificing health, well if you mix in some vampric horrors with your bone fiends and flesh golem then they heal you.. I constantly spam BotM and my health is always full thanks to my vamps! Here's the thing you need to learn minion control, you dont aggro with them, you send them in when aggro is done. (Use Flesh Golem and mainly Fiends, Vamp Horrors are when the recharge isnt ready on Fiends, you should have at least 6 Fiends, Flesh Golem and 1-2 Vamp Horrors.) This keeps the Fiends out of direct hand to hand combat and you can stay with them and heal them when needed. Also the other casters can go near you if they need a heal or you can go and heal them, let the monks focus on their job of healing the tanks. MM's need to do something more now as there is lots more downtime as a MM due to the cap of 10 minions. Why spam BotM when you can spam 2 heal area's and help others more than your minions?

Quote: Originally Posted by Undead Preacher Using skills like heal area are so inferior to BotM... your minions don't stand by your side when you fight so that makes Heal Area useless.... and it cost more energy than BotM not to mention your minions can be a mile away and it will still heal them.... the strongest MM is a Pure MM... To claim that "the strongest MM is a Pure MM..." is not really true as sure you can heal all your minions better during combat with BotM, but whats the point of keeping them alive in combat? You should have at all times 10 and by time the first mob dies your first minion will be near dead which means you can make a new one. By constantly healing them in battle with BotM you are just leaving corpses open to be used by those you are fighting, unless you are creating new minions while you are still at the 10 limit...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

Why use non-necro skills when everything you need is already in your arsenal! Why? To make yourself a better group mate! Going with the Monk secondary and using it like I stated makes you a BETTER MM to have in a group. How is it better, same amount of damage dealt and you can help heal the group (not just your minions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

what do you do for energy if your putting points into healing prayers?? 16 death, 13 soul, and 8 healing, 2 superior runes, having 2 heal areas offsets the HP loss, going to try it with 11 soul reaping as a test soon as I am full of energy and minions all the time.

Tell me which MM would you rather have in the group the one spamming BotM who needs healing from the monk or the doulbe heal area MM who assists in keeping the group and NPC's alive? Each has their 10 minions up 90% of the time so there is no difference there. Seems pretty clear to me. Heck I even have time to rez allies in battle with this build, another bonus to the group.

With running through factions I have saved 3 missions by keeping NPC's alive due to having the 2 heal areas. This build really works great in the Arborstone mission due to the constant damage everyone receives. So try it you might just find out that it is better for a team build.

Fiends/Horror/Flesh Golem/Your choice damage spell/Heal Area/Kirea's Healing Circle/Rez of choice (not rebirth)/Death Nova (Cap sig)

edited by sno: removed flame

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

17 May 2006 at 14:20 - 10

I suppose you can use sould feast for healing. But I like Well because its a party thing, and your minions gain the benefits too.

Hemophiliac

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 May 2006 at 14:42 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

mint

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

NYC

17 May 2006 at 17:44 - 12

Undead Preacher, chill out man, and try to accept the fact that you are not always right :P

Personally, I think both of your builds (hemopheliac and undead) are flawed. I agree, BoTM was made to heal minions. Healing minions is a must in battle; the wider radius, 5 energy cast, 2 second recharge, and the fact you don't have to worry about healing the foe all make this the superior skill to use in that instance.

This being said, along with BoTM, heal area is also a necessity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

BOTM was made to heal minions, moron Yes it was. But by no means does it make it the end-all skill for MMs. Spamming BoTM like it's your job sure keeps minions alive, but in the eyes of your monk, it's like having another monster pounding away at your party. A monk's job is stressful enough, I'm sure they don't need any more trouble in those 'elite missions' that you seem to enjoy running. And god knows Alesia or the common pug monk doesn't need any more work than possible.

Do the responsible thing. Carry BoTM and heal area on your bar. If you're a proficient MM, you sacrifice around 20% health for every BoTM. Assuming around 450 hp, that's potentially 180 hp every 6 or so seconds. I run 16 death, 10 soul reaping, 10 healing, with BoTM and heal area on my bar. Generally, I cast 2 BoTM to every 1 heal area. Typically, your fiends will group up (if you aggro properly), and you can catch them with the heal area as well. I find this better than dual heal area, since you can heal your tanking minions in battle using less energy with BoTM, but still be a responsible party member and hit yourself and your fiends with a nice 130hp heal area so your monks won't have to

Undead Preacher

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Scribes of Cantha (USoC)

17 May 2006 at 21:29 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemophiliac

lol, real nice. Um did I ever stat BotM wasn't made to heal minions? NO! I am trying to suggest that a double heal area is better for a team than BotM. MM's need to evolve they are not just about their minions they need a secondary job as well. With the update to MM's (some call it a nerf) they have more free time, which means they can do something else! Try it for once, but it appears you have the attitude of a WaMo, all about your character and your minions, who cares about the rest of the team. I'm done responding to your childish responses, I mean come on grow up, or just keep flaming away at anyone who dosn't agree or has a better/different idea than you! what your team wants is a good MM, they have monks for healing... the point is to be the best MM possible seeing your usually a very crucial role in the team.... being a healer isn't part of your job.... instead of adding healing spells add some damage spells... then thats helping your team

MM = Damage dealer
so if you have open skill slots add dmg spells.... not healing

Hemophiliac

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

17 May 2006 at 21:57 - 14

wow, a reasonable post by you and one that can make a point. I guess I should add that my build has allowed my PUG's to only need 1 monk as opposed to those that use 2, guess the extra damage comes in the form of another player on top of my minions. But I can see your point that MM's are meant for damage, but I don't think the Death skills are the greatest for dealing damage. Plus the recharge on swarm is fast enough you can practically spam that for damage, which means other damage spells are not really needed.
Damage spells 3 minions types, swarm, nova (5 spells)

I'm offerring a different build which allows only 1 monk needed as some missions there is a lack of monks around for PUG's. A MM can actually be a decent backup monk, due to they don't need to pay that much attention to the battle, they can focus on the party then and assist in healing when needed. Add to that their energy never gets low which greatly helps healing in long battles when the monk is getting low on energy.
reusable rez/heal area/healing circle(or BotM). You'd be surprised how many you can keep by well timed heal area's.

But to each their own, that what makes the game fun, different styles of play allow different builds that work equally well in different aspects.

Scourage of Death

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Unknown Warriors [UW]

17 May 2006 at 23:56 - 15

I have to agree with Undead in this flame war...ive played MM for a rly long time. Before the nerf(not complaining) I used a N/E w/ glyph of renewel to keep up Veratas forever, now I use a build like Preacher's. Heal area is not and never has been necessary or even good.Here's some reasons(prolly been said but w/e)
1. Minions arent always near you...so heal area isnt always effective
2. With the -75 health you get from having another sup rune(the sup soul reaping) you end up being easier to kill and having lower health when you so sac...in my opinion I dont this is good and my vamp horrors heal up my sac ez as pie
3.Still dont like spending pts in healing prayers

All in all MM is still a personalized thing...it is w/e works for you best...but in my opinion I beleive that heal area sucks and is a waste of a skill(only reason im /monk is for rebirth). Undead is also rite in that your group wants a MM, not a self healing character...the monks will take care of you...do your job and let them do theirs...MM w/o heal area and having dmg dealing spells instead is the better play and works better in every stituation(unlike heal area which only works in early parts of game, as showen by Undead).

Just my thoughts(try not to get too mad),
Scourage of Death

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

18 May 2006 at 00:25 - 16

I use both Vampiric Horrors and Bone Fiends, Offering of Blood, BotM. The Vamp Horrors heal your sac, OoB allows you to spam summons, BotM is all you need to keep your minions alive. Now it becomes a bit hectic when there is more than 1 MM. BotM becomes a massive life sac, but for 10 minions only- it's cheap, it's effective, it's superior to HA, it saves you points from Healing you can put elsewhere. Enuf said.

Malachi The Fallen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

N/Me

23 May 2006 at 18:31 - 17

What do you guys think of Taste Of Pain as a Death self heal? You just need to catch an enemy with <50% HP and it's a 100+ HP 5 energy self heal.

Caedere

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

N/Me

24 May 2006 at 01:27 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi The Fallen

What do you guys think of Taste Of Pain as a Death self heal? You just need to catch an enemy with <50% HP and it's a 100+ HP 5 energy self heal. I'm not a fan of it at all.

Honestly, as a MM, if I need to heal I just eat my minions. Especially the Flesh Golem - you can Death Nova him, Taste of Death to heal until he explodes, re-cast him, and start over again - no energy problems at all due to high Soul Reaping.

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 May 2006 at 12:00 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Just to mention this,

Healing your minions will increase their health degerneration. The more often you heal them, the faster the degenerartion becomes. Monk healing skills as I believe will actually increase the degeneration even faster. Please correct my if I'm wrong regarding Monk healing Originally, that was true, but I retested. An update between Feb and the release of factiosn made it so minions are no longer subject to quicker degens due to monk healing.

Monk heaing or healing in general doesn't increase the degen rate. It's actually lifespan. Minions (at highest level) live for 1:24 (mm:ss). Once they pass that time frame, the degen steadily increases. I can't say for sure, but it starts at like 2-3 pips.

Spamming Blood of the master is a great idea. I do that with a hench healer b/c a normal healer may not be watching me as close. I jsut make sure I stand back after the minions aggro and let them kill everything. I keep VHOrrors as a primary source of HP. I also use Soul Feast. Soul Feast may kill a corpse, but it you need health quick, there isn't a better skill in the game.

With Blood of the master, I spam it. 10 minions = 25% Sacrifice. If you're in party with 2 MM's, you may want to choose the lich MM build. ALthough you can't bring a golem, your sacrifices will heal up to 20 minions for the same 25%. If you're an N/Me and the other MM has a golem, you can use Arcane Mimicry to "borrow" his golem. Now, the benefit of Aura of LIch is that sacrifice costs are cut in half and the ammount of health you have is halved (which means healing to full can be done quicker). The drawback is that when you're hit with a condition, you die in half the time.

Raziel665

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Defenders of the Blackblade [DotB]

N/Mo

24 May 2006 at 13:56 - 20

Simply amazaing that after well over 1 year, the fake rumours of healing minnions increases their degen are still around. This is absolutely not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by www.Guildwiki.org

Minions are subject to constant health degeneration, starting at 1 "pip" of degen at summoning, and increasing by 1 pip of degeration every 20 seconds. (One pip of degeneration is -2 health per second.) While their actual health will never experience degeneration greater than -10 pips (20 health per second), they can have hidden degeneration greater than -10, if they have been "alive" long enough, that will counteract any regeneration from such skills as Verata's Sacrifice or Healing Breeze.

Minions can be healed not only with necromancer spells like Verata's Sacrifice or Blood of the Master, but also with Monk spells like Heal Other. Contrary to some rumors, healing a minion with a Healing Prayers skill does not increase its degeneration.

xenoranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

24 May 2006 at 14:05 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raziel665

Simply amazaing that after well over 1 year, the fake rumours of healing minnions increases their degen are still around. This is absolutely not true. Actually not a rumor. I tested the claim back in feb. It was 100% true at the time that minions under the effect of monk healing were dying quicker than minions under the effect of necro healing.

I did a more recent test, and it no longer seems to be true. Somewhere, there must've been a build or something that removed that issue.