Last night I saw someone offering to sell a hydra mini-pet in Kaineng Center. I wanted to buy it, so I asked him, how much?
Me: How much for the mini pet?
Him: Make me an offer
Me: Ok, 55k
Him: R U KIDDING?!11 It's 85k at GWtraders! Go away with yo n00b offers
Me: Well with that attitude you won't get many customers
Now I ask you, why do some traders ask YOU to make an offer, and then get all upset if it's not the offer they had in mind. If you want 85k for the pet, then don't ask ME to make YOU an offer. Just say: "WTS - Minipet hydra 85k", and perhaps you can add: "price is negotionable"
Seriously, the stupidity level of some of these traders is mindboggling.
Make me an offer - About trading morons
Rob Van Der Sloot
SilentAssassin
well most of them are hoping you are a noob and you offer 100k+20ectos 
RTSFirebat
I feel for you on this one.
That sums it up pretty well, but lets go into it in more detail...
Often when people ask me to "make and offer" I have no idea what to offer them!
Saying to high will get you ripped off... saying to low will often get you flamed and insulted.
These days I ask for a price check on things before I start buying, just to avoiding flaming.
There has been one or two nice players who have messaged about and said "That's way to low, they worth around 85K so how about we meet in the middle?"
Traders seem to forget not everyone humps the GWG seller's forums all day long
let alone know the price of EVERYTHING in game.
Tip to Seller: Don't ask people to make offers unless you state what is the max or min offer your willing to take.
The worth sort of people are the ones who type things like this:
"WTS Max Fellblade 15^50... NO NOOB OFFERS!!!!shiftone!!!"
I send them a PM asking "What do you define as a 'noob' offer"
Reply: "Insert flames and insults here"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SilentAssassin
well most of them are hoping you are a noob and you offer 100k+20ectos
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Often when people ask me to "make and offer" I have no idea what to offer them!
Saying to high will get you ripped off... saying to low will often get you flamed and insulted.
These days I ask for a price check on things before I start buying, just to avoiding flaming.
There has been one or two nice players who have messaged about and said "That's way to low, they worth around 85K so how about we meet in the middle?"
Traders seem to forget not everyone humps the GWG seller's forums all day long
let alone know the price of EVERYTHING in game.Tip to Seller: Don't ask people to make offers unless you state what is the max or min offer your willing to take.
The worth sort of people are the ones who type things like this:
"WTS Max Fellblade 15^50... NO NOOB OFFERS!!!!shiftone!!!"
I send them a PM asking "What do you define as a 'noob' offer"
Reply: "Insert flames and insults here"
baz777
Agree.
Only human nature to try and get a bargain with your first offer.
When I sell in game, which is rarely these days, I always set asking price.
Only human nature to try and get a bargain with your first offer.
When I sell in game, which is rarely these days, I always set asking price.
RTSFirebat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by baz777
When I sell in game, which is rarely these days, I always set asking price.
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Yes I do the same.
Sadly a lot of people in this game are rude and think they are above others (elitist), which leads to flaming.
They shouldn't say, make me an offer without expecting offers that they don't like.
lyra_song
Very few people in this game know the meaning of haggling anyway -.o
wolfe2dale
Just to play Devil's Advocate here... Some players may say this because they don't know the true value of the item they have & don't want to get conned by a scammer.
If you don't normally trade you might be out of the loop with current prices & don't want to be flamed as a 'n00b' for asking.
If you don't normally trade you might be out of the loop with current prices & don't want to be flamed as a 'n00b' for asking.
LordMahal
Im a straight forward person in life and in this game. When a seller says, make an offer, I tell him to tell me how much he wants right now. No games. If they keep saying make an offer, I ignore them. Sometimes I get slammed with comments and bad language, and in the end they still dont tell me how much they want. If you want to sell an item, you know in your mind what you will take for it, and thats all I ask... How much...
Lady Erighan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wolfe2dale
Just to play Devil's Advocate here... Some players may say this because they don't know the true value of the item they have & don't want to get conned by a scammer.
If you don't normally trade you might be out of the loop with current prices & don't want to be flamed as a 'n00b' for asking. |
Azmodan
If someone tells me to make an offer, I just don't respond to them. I go on looking for someone else selling the item.
Most of the time, the original person will ask if I want the item. I simply tell them that if they can't give me a price, then I don't want it.
I used to offer rediculously low prices for items on purpose. Then I just decided to ignore them.
Most of the time, the original person will ask if I want the item. I simply tell them that if they can't give me a price, then I don't want it.
I used to offer rediculously low prices for items on purpose. Then I just decided to ignore them.
Ira Blinks
Just dont deal with make-me-offerers. They clearly trying to scam you. Why would you waste your time on this (even if you know exact price of the item) and help this guy to sell his crap?
Witchblade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
Last night I saw someone offering to sell a hydra mini-pet in Kaineng Center. I wanted to buy it, so I asked him, how much?
Me: How much for the mini pet? Him: Make me an offer Me: Ok, 55k Him: R U KIDDING?!11 It's 85k at GWtraders! Go away with yo n00b offers Me: Well with that attitude you won't get many customers Now I ask you, why do some traders ask YOU to make an offer, and then get all upset if it's not the offer they had in mind. If you want 85k for the pet, then don't ask ME to make YOU an offer. Just say: "WTS - Minipet hydra 85k", and perhaps you can add: "price is negotionable" Seriously, the stupidity level of some of these traders is mindboggling. |
u are a noob if u dont make a 100k+ectos offer
Blitzy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ira Blinks
Just dont deal with make-me-offerers. They clearly trying to scam you. Why would you waste your time on this (even if you know exact price of the item) and help this guy to sell his crap?
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There is no one person that responsibility falls on, all trades are different. It's all about meeting somewhere in the middle imo.
makosi
The real moneymakers in Gw are those who sell items at set prices and don't grumble at a ~10% negotiation. I've seen people selling perfect Chaos Axes in Droks for 100k+85 ectos and saw the same name a week later selling the same item for the same price. Think of all the farming opportunities they missed out on.
Besides, when you question their prices, they respond with a vile attitude and call you a n00b and all the possible synonyms. Angry 12 year-olds come to mind.
Besides, when you question their prices, they respond with a vile attitude and call you a n00b and all the possible synonyms. Angry 12 year-olds come to mind.
chessyang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wolfe2dale
Just to play Devil's Advocate here... Some players may say this because they don't know the true value of the item they have & don't want to get conned by a scammer.
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1) 99% of the people buy max damage/rechage/enegry/low req
2) start to low ball the price (4tw)
3) skin... skin ... skin...
Yesterday someone wanted a 20/20 sundering for a dagger. I have one but wasn't in the mood to sell it. so i whisper him and asked "him for an offer". then he whispers me back "what are you selling it for" (start of endless loop). I didn't want to ask for 100k + 60 ecto because that's crazy and he offered 30k which i think is crazy. just said "no thanks" and he whispered me a few more times and that was that.
The key is say "no thanks" and leave it like that. If someone starts to press you to buy it or starts calling you noob.
/rant
I found one person from guru who was calling me noob when i was trying to buy an item. I'm pretty sure it just a regular who visit but the rest of us i know don't act that way and provide "Help"
/endrant
Mournblade
If i'm directly flamed for making a low offer, then I won't deal with the person. Most of the time, for me, the person is more like, "thats too freaking low, I don't think so!" To which I reply, "well what did you have in mind then?" That usually gets things to where they need to be.
"Make me an offer..." phhhhhttt... 1gp! Duh.
"Make me an offer..." phhhhhttt... 1gp! Duh.
EternalTempest
Anyone uses "make me an offer" be it the buyer or the seller is going to make a ton of money.
Only time make an offer is vaild is if you do know the prices and as pointed out, not many non-traders know the price of items. Once an auction house / trade house system is implemented, far more non-traders will know the price of things.
It was going away from it to specific price or psudo auction, starting bids on X for X plat, current offer is X but when factions came out and mixed things up, I see a ton of Sell X, Make offer
Only time make an offer is vaild is if you do know the prices and as pointed out, not many non-traders know the price of items. Once an auction house / trade house system is implemented, far more non-traders will know the price of things.
It was going away from it to specific price or psudo auction, starting bids on X for X plat, current offer is X but when factions came out and mixed things up, I see a ton of Sell X, Make offer
Tetris L
GuildWars often reminds me of this:
Quote:
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BRIAN: How much? Quick. HARRY THE HAGGLER: What? BRIAN: It's for the wife. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Oh. Uhhh, twenty shekels. BRIAN: Right. HARRY THE HAGGLER: What? BRIAN: There you are. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Wait a minute. BRIAN: What? HARRY THE HAGGLER: Well, we're-- we're supposed to haggle. BRIAN: No, no. I've got to get-- HARRY THE HAGGLER: What do you mean, 'no, no, no'? BRIAN: I haven't time. I've got-- HARRY THE HAGGLER: Well, give it back, then. BRIAN: No, no, no. I just paid you. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Burt! BURT: Yeah? HARRY THE HAGGLER: This bloke won't haggle. BURT: Won't haggle?! BRIAN: All right. Do we have to? HARRY THE HAGGLER: Now, look. I want twenty for that. BRIAN: I-- I just gave you twenty. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Now, are you telling me that's not worth twenty shekels? BRIAN: No. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Look at it. Feel the quality. That's none of your goat. BRIAN: All right. I'll give you nineteen then. HARRY THE HAGGLER: No, no, no. Come on. Do it properly. BRIAN: What? HARRY THE HAGGLER: Haggle properly. This isn't worth nineteen. BRIAN: Well, you just said it was worth twenty. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Ohh, dear. Ohh, dear. Come on. Haggle. BRIAN: Huh. All right. I'll give you ten. HARRY THE HAGGLER: That's more like it. Ten?! Are you trying to insult me?! Me, with a poor dying grandmother?! Ten?! BRIAN: All right. I'll give you eleven. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Now you're gettin' it. Eleven?! Did I hear you right?! Eleven?! This cost me twelve. You want to ruin me?! BRIAN: Seventeen? HARRY THE HAGGLER: No, no, no, no. Seventeen. BRIAN: Eighteen? HARRY THE HAGGLER: No, no. You go to fourteen now. BRIAN: All right. I'll give you fourteen. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Fourteen?! Are you joking?! BRIAN: That's what you told me to say. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Ohh, dear. BRIAN: Ohh, tell me what to say. Please! HARRY THE HAGGLER: Offer me fourteen. BRIAN: I'll give you fourteen. HARRY THE HAGGLER: He's offering me fourteen for this! BRIAN: Fifteen! HARRY THE HAGGLER: Seventeen. My last word. I won't take a penny less, or strike me dead. BRIAN: Sixteen. HARRY THE HAGGLER: Done. Nice to do business with you. |
Selus of Amoe
For me, I don't really know my prices so I just ask for offers and normally take them! There was a time that when I finished buying materials for armor I said:
"Hey, one sec, I have a few golds that I don't need, if you want them go ahead and make the offer, I really don't care."
And I wouldn't be a jerk if they offer was low, I'd accept it, lol. But I will agree, there are ignorant people that don't just say something like: "Eh, it's a little low for me," or "Someone is offering me more," (<-- If it's true) and stuff of the such. I do hate newb flaming traders, as I KNOW I'm not one of them.
Being lazy, it's what I do, even though I know I may be losing a little cash .
"Hey, one sec, I have a few golds that I don't need, if you want them go ahead and make the offer, I really don't care."
And I wouldn't be a jerk if they offer was low, I'd accept it, lol. But I will agree, there are ignorant people that don't just say something like: "Eh, it's a little low for me," or "Someone is offering me more," (<-- If it's true) and stuff of the such. I do hate newb flaming traders, as I KNOW I'm not one of them.
Being lazy, it's what I do, even though I know I may be losing a little cash
.
sabretalon
When I sell my items I have a rough idea how much I want even if it is lower than the current market rate I will sell just to get rid rather than stand around trying to sell.
But I do donate regularly to my guild so I offer items to guildies and if no one wants them (for a donation to guild funds) then I sell them and donate the money to the guild. In these cases I let people know what I'm doing (once they ask about an item) and ask them to make a reasonable offer. Sold items worth 5k for 500g etc..
In the end an item is only worth what the next person is willing to pay for it! If I have to spend 10 mins selling an item then I'm waiting too long. I'm not flush with cash only have about 20k in total, but I have bought some of my guildies their armour, decent weapons etc..
I hate the traders that when you ask them "have you got any weapons for rit" they say "yes" and when you trade they fill the trade window with loads of other items that have no relivance! I just cancel them and walk away now.
But I do donate regularly to my guild so I offer items to guildies and if no one wants them (for a donation to guild funds) then I sell them and donate the money to the guild. In these cases I let people know what I'm doing (once they ask about an item) and ask them to make a reasonable offer. Sold items worth 5k for 500g etc..
In the end an item is only worth what the next person is willing to pay for it! If I have to spend 10 mins selling an item then I'm waiting too long. I'm not flush with cash only have about 20k in total, but I have bought some of my guildies their armour, decent weapons etc..
I hate the traders that when you ask them "have you got any weapons for rit" they say "yes" and when you trade they fill the trade window with loads of other items that have no relivance! I just cancel them and walk away now.
aron searle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
"WTS Max Fellblade 15^50... NO NOOB OFFERS!!!!shiftone!!!" |
I always make a habit of pm'ing these people with "1 gold" offers.
Theus
People actually buy weapons off of other players?
How silly.
How silly.
Lasher Dragon
I have to admit that I have done the whole "Make me an offer" bit quite a few times. When I have something I think is too nice to merchant, yet not perfect enough to actually put any effort into selling, I will sell for the first decent offer I get. It's not about trying to rip anyone off, it's about getting more than I would from the merchant, and someone gets something they want for a price they can handle. I've had people offer me too much, and I tell them. It may sound insane, but when I'm selling stuff like that I'm not out to make a bunch of money - I'm just trying to find an alternative to the merchant.
Rathcail
I sell majority of my items on the auction. But those few times when I don't and I'm WTSing somewhere, I tend to ask for the buyer to make an offer. I'm aware of the value myself but I really hate haggling. When the buyer makes an offer, I know they are willing to pay that amount and then it's either deal or continuing shouting WTS for me. Sometimes I even sell the items for lower than usual price if the buyer made an offer for it and I'm in the mood to sell it for that.
If the buyer refuses to make an offer, I'll set the price and won't haggle from that. Offers for lower price after this will get a "You should have offered that when I first asked for it" comment and nothing more from me.
Yeah, I really hate haggling.
If the buyer refuses to make an offer, I'll set the price and won't haggle from that. Offers for lower price after this will get a "You should have offered that when I first asked for it" comment and nothing more from me.
Yeah, I really hate haggling.
Artisan
I'll ask someone to make me an offer once in a while, but normally I'll sell it for whatever they say as long as it's not too absurd, I'm not that concerned about maximizing my profit.
If someone's selling something and asks me to offer, I'll usually do a price check and offer 10-20% less, then work from there.
The thing I hate is people who just say 'NO' when you offer a price that's too low. Jesus, haven't you ever heard of haggling? The most annoying people are the ones who think that every price and offer are unchangeable.
If someone's selling something and asks me to offer, I'll usually do a price check and offer 10-20% less, then work from there.
The thing I hate is people who just say 'NO' when you offer a price that's too low. Jesus, haven't you ever heard of haggling? The most annoying people are the ones who think that every price and offer are unchangeable.
demon dantes
well i sit on the side of the fence that will no longer offer and will never buy anything in game w/o a price attached to it. someone was selling the strongroot shelter. i liked the skin so i bid . seeings how it was a new green i really had not seen around i said 100k he sold it right away ran to me even lol. then i found out they were only 45k lol but i didn t say anything lol just chalked it up as a loss lol.
Mustache Mayhem
well lowballing is pretty annoying.. and window shoppers are even worse- I just set a reasonable price when I sell and you would'nt believe how many lowballers pm you saying something like- you noob that's not worth that much.. or EDIT no.. then 2 seconds later you have peeps going over the c/o towards the b/o to buy it (who actually know the price of the item being sold).. In factions especially the window shopping is really bad- I'll show the items in trade but alot of these poor guys just have no money and love to waste everyones time.. not saying the original poster is like that- 55k for hydra is a decent offer and the seller should have a c/o and b/o set.. he was just a noob with no money looking for a big score- good traders sell thier items at peak times and usually get what they are after pretty quickly.. someone selling too high and not able to negotiate just move on
Cybah
there are 4 different sellers:
1) "WTS X" <- often a new player who will sell his item cheap when you ask for price.
2) "WTS X - Y k + Z ectos" <- often negationable :-)
3) "WTS X - whisper offer" <- seller is waiting for an exact amount of gold offered and he hopes someone offers too much. No chance for you to buy it cheap.
4) "WTS X - whisper offer. NO NEWBS!!!111111" <- often waiting for a (too) high offer, ignore them.
1) "WTS X" <- often a new player who will sell his item cheap when you ask for price.
2) "WTS X - Y k + Z ectos" <- often negationable :-)
3) "WTS X - whisper offer" <- seller is waiting for an exact amount of gold offered and he hopes someone offers too much.
No chance for you to buy it cheap.4) "WTS X - whisper offer. NO NEWBS!!!111111" <- often waiting for a (too) high offer, ignore them.
Lepton CFd
WAY too many have no clue what the word haggling means. They ask you to offer, and of course, you start low, and then they just flame you/ignore you. What the hell? Then THEY are supposed to say the price they want. Then you continue haggling until you agree on a price.
It is sadly so rare to find a person that actually knows what "haggling" means.
It is sadly so rare to find a person that actually knows what "haggling" means.
Ellipson
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon
I have to admit that I have done the whole "Make me an offer" bit quite a few times. When I have something I think is too nice to merchant, yet not perfect enough to actually put any effort into selling, I will sell for the first decent offer I get. It's not about trying to rip anyone off, it's about getting more than I would from the merchant, and someone gets something they want for a price they can handle. I've had people offer me too much, and I tell them. It may sound insane, but when I'm selling stuff like that I'm not out to make a bunch of money - I'm just trying to find an alternative to the merchant.
|
I was selling a nice grab bag of perfect and near-perfect upgrades last night, and had quite a few whispers going on at once. I don't like to get picky over a 20-30% difference in price, so I was just asking for offers on all of them. As long as the offer was somewhat reasonable (50% of the "normal" price, usually: I sold a perfect hale staff head for 5k
), I accepted. If someone offered me too much, I politely told him that he was paying too much and told him what a more reasonable price to pay would be.To those of you who don't answer people who ask for an offer: lots of us either don't know the value of what we're selling or are just trying to dump stuff for the first reasonable price we come across. Don't hate.
gou
@cybah
I have recently had the misfortune to identify a 5th type for your list there:
Watching LA trade spam I spot a fair price for a nice item I was after, Having agreed to a trade, my trade window pops open and I enter my side of the deal. *pop* window closes and the player runs off upto storage.
Heh I thought "well we've all left something in storage before" and while I waited for the trade window to open again I rolled a ciggy...
...Ok so, i've sparked up already and still no trade.
I unmute trade and local again to see this person is back offering the same item for the same price but with a new addition to the adline:
"...(luxons only)"
My kurzick armour clad ranger was left speechless
I have recently had the misfortune to identify a 5th type for your list there:
Watching LA trade spam I spot a fair price for a nice item I was after, Having agreed to a trade, my trade window pops open and I enter my side of the deal. *pop* window closes and the player runs off upto storage.
Heh I thought "well we've all left something in storage before" and while I waited for the trade window to open again I rolled a ciggy...
...Ok so, i've sparked up already and still no trade.
I unmute trade and local again to see this person is back offering the same item for the same price but with a new addition to the adline:
"...(luxons only)"
My kurzick armour clad ranger was left speechless
Lasher Dragon
^^lol
That's some dedication there, to give up a sale and go back to spamming WTS...
That's some dedication there, to give up a sale and go back to spamming WTS...
FeroxC
You dont seriously, tell him hes overpaying do you ? .
If im selling i usually do WTS: blah whisper me.
They usually say "how much" i add 5-10k onto what i think is a reasonable price, if they dont buy ill reduce to normal.
If im buying and want an item ill usually knock 5 or 10 off the asking price and say thats all i got which is complete BS, they usually feel sorry and take the bait
.
And thats how to make 200k profit on mini pets in 3 days.
.If im selling i usually do WTS: blah whisper me.
They usually say "how much" i add 5-10k onto what i think is a reasonable price, if they dont buy ill reduce to normal.
If im buying and want an item ill usually knock 5 or 10 off the asking price and say thats all i got which is complete BS, they usually feel sorry and take the bait
And thats how to make 200k profit on mini pets in 3 days.
floplag
this has long been a major annoyance for me to the point where if i post a WTB message, i usually include the following :
PM me with pricing, do not ask me to make an offer... just give me a price range
its like every seller in the game assumes everyoine is idiots or something .. and then you do get a quote and its twice or worse thew value of the item... 85K, u buy ?
right now im pretty much not shopping in game, its pointless
PM me with pricing, do not ask me to make an offer... just give me a price range
its like every seller in the game assumes everyoine is idiots or something .. and then you do get a quote and its twice or worse thew value of the item... 85K, u buy ?
right now im pretty much not shopping in game, its pointless
Lasher Dragon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FeroxC
You dont seriously, tell him hes overpaying do you ?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FeroxC
If im selling i usually do WTS: blah whisper me.
They usually say "how much" i add 5-10k onto what i think is a reasonable price, if they dont buy ill reduce to normal. If im buying and want an item ill usually knock 5 or 10 off the asking price and say thats all i got which is complete BS, they usually feel sorry and take the bait And thats how to make 200k profit on mini pets in 3 days. |
FeroxC
nice, i think my best was buying a jungle troll for 45k then selling it for 75k.
SpeedyKQ
I've found pretty much everyone wants me to make the first offer, so I play along. If I'm buying I offer half of the max I'm willing to pay, If I'm selling I ask for double the least I'll take. I usually end up at a fair price that way.
I used to start out naming a fair price but that didn't work out so well.
I used to start out naming a fair price but that didn't work out so well.
frickett
I can't buy or sell in game right now, It is just too convoluted. I think that the "value" on items should more closely resemble what they are worth. I mean if a Victo's maul is worth 3-5k why does it say it's value is 35-39g?
Mimi Miyagi
I ALWAYS state "whisper offer" when I am selling anything. Why? Because if I set a price, just about everyone ignores it. There are just too many players looking to rip off a seller for the fast buy low sell high. If I want to sell something and state the fair market value, pretty much no one cares to even make a counter offer.
But it doesn't matter, if I say "whisper offer" I get the same thing "how much do you want for it?" Doesn't anyone have any reading skills?
I don't care what the offer is, it could be 1gp, but at least we've started a dialog instead of closing off a potential sale because my asking price is not the bargain everyone is looking for.
If someone's offer is much too low, I'll make sure they are aware of what I was looking for in the sale. If they offer 30K and I was looking for something in the neighborhood of 50K, I'll let them know. They can either take it futher from there, or just say "no thanks" and move along.
But I'll spend the time to negotiate and haggle. I'm never looking to rip anyone off, and I don't really worry about what the buyer does with the item I've sold afterwards. If he makes a killing off it, kudo's to him. I've never sold anything and felt bad about it afterwards. I'm sure I've sold items well below market value on occasion, but I have enough money to last for a lifetime, why be a jerk in game about it?
But it doesn't matter, if I say "whisper offer" I get the same thing "how much do you want for it?" Doesn't anyone have any reading skills?
I don't care what the offer is, it could be 1gp, but at least we've started a dialog instead of closing off a potential sale because my asking price is not the bargain everyone is looking for.
If someone's offer is much too low, I'll make sure they are aware of what I was looking for in the sale. If they offer 30K and I was looking for something in the neighborhood of 50K, I'll let them know. They can either take it futher from there, or just say "no thanks" and move along.
But I'll spend the time to negotiate and haggle. I'm never looking to rip anyone off, and I don't really worry about what the buyer does with the item I've sold afterwards. If he makes a killing off it, kudo's to him. I've never sold anything and felt bad about it afterwards. I'm sure I've sold items well below market value on occasion, but I have enough money to last for a lifetime, why be a jerk in game about it?
Andy_M
This is why we need an auction house so bad... I've seen awful open beta games with a better trading system than this one. Not even considering trading anything until it happens. If I need something that bad I'll go get it myself.
Saying that, the Hydra is worth 55-80k ? Hmmmmm.
Saying that, the Hydra is worth 55-80k ? Hmmmmm.