Video Card and PSU Help

Hey, I posted a while ago about what video card to buy, and I think I'm finally ready to go out, well, go online, and buy one, seeing as my current Radeon 9200 is really just not doing it for me anymore (stupid lack of pixel shaders and DirectX 9 and all that crap )... the cards I'm considering that should be within my budget are:

Plenty under budget:
Radeon x1300
Geforce 6600

Cutting it a bit closer:
Radeon x1600 Pro
Geforce 6600 GT
Geforce 6800

My main concern now is what I can do with my power supply unit. I still have the generic one that came with my VAIO PCV-RS520, and I don't know how to find the specifications for it. All I know is that I've never had a power problem before, but I've heard woeful tales of failing power with these newer graphics cards. Also to note, I am using AGP, so that narrows the crowd down a bit.

So my questions now are: How can I find the specs of my PSU? Which of these cards might work with what is probably a pretty low-power PSU? And lastly, are there any other cards I should be considering (I've got 2 more years of use for this and then I'll finally get a new computer)? Also, keep in mind that my budget gets lower if I have to get a new PSU in addition to the video card, and that I'm mostly clueless about most of this stuff so explain it in the most simple terms you can.

Thanks in advance for helping me with this!

Most of the vid cards I've ran into that require their own power source from the power supply, require at least a 300-350 watt power supply or more. Depending on how many devices you are powering, the requirement may go up if it's alot.

Hm, some system specs might be in order then:

Intel Pentium 4 3.00 GHz Processor
1.5 GB PC2700 DDR RAM (2x512, 2x256)
SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS
2x160 GB Western Digital IDE Hard Drives
1 DVD-R+-RW; 1 DVD-ROM

I think those would be the main things to suck up power... also a couple low-power USB devices, like a gamepad/keyboard etc.

The problem is that I don't know how high my current power supply is and I don't know how to find out.

/cringe

Look at the side sticker of the PSU, and see how many amps are on the unit and its brand name. Then check the voltage fluctuations with a digital multimeter. One can be found in my guide, as in other places. A link to the guide is enclosed below....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3030994

Hm, sexy, a guide!

As for the sticker, I suppose I have to open the PC, because there sure isn't one on the visible part.

Indeed, you will most likely have to open the case.

please note that there is a great performance differance between a 6600 and a 6600 GT.

get the GT as it is relatively a small jump in price for what you get.

mine has worked fine for about a year so far

6600gt has GDDR3 Ram, and an overall better chip architechture. You can get a 7600gt if u want..

He's an AGP user.

Hm.. well, I checked out your guide, and as important as I now realize the PSU is, I still don't have time for all that at the moment for any part of my PC. However, I can tell you that I found at least one sticker that says something like "120V~6A" in reference to my current power, which was on the outside of the case, on the VAIO label. I can tell you that with my current configuration I've never had power problems I think. I can give whatever information necessary that I can get from internet/software testing if someone can help me pick a good power supply, or figure out if I definately need a new one at all.

Yeah, 6600GT or vanilla 6800. Most of the AGP vanilla 6800's unlock with RivaTuner to give you added value. If you get lucky and find a deal on a used 6800GT or 6800Ultra, that's about as good as it gets. 6800GS = castrated 6800GT/Ultra, not worth 200$.

Hm, I should express that my budget is $150 absolute maximum, including shipping and power supply if I need a new one... So for the 6600GT or 6800 I pretty much have to go to eBay to get one for that, there might be a couple from NewEgg and places like that. There's a nice x1600 from NewEgg for about $120, and the x1300 is under $100, so I'm leaning more toward the ATi side right now.

EDIT: More on that, after reading up on some PSUs and cards, this is pretty much what I've come up with:

I'll get this PSU if I find out that mine won't be able to handle a new card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817171007

And I'll get one of these two cards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102665
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102687

I just thought I'd point out that it'd probably be better in the long run if you step up your PC2700 to at least PC3200. That 2700 will come back to kick you in the arse, especially when your other stuff isn't all that bad in the first place.

It also depends on what motherboard he's using, if its some random OEM mobo designed for PC2700 w/o the ability to adjust memory related bios features then it'll default it to PC2700 anyway, so yeah.

I hope this comment isn't really to me, because I truly don't know what you are saying...

Remember, I only have 2 years left with this PC, and my video card is the only part lagging behind, so in this case, there isn't much of a long run.

Yes, it was to you. He was suggesting you upgrade the speed of your ram, rather than the amount. Which in some cases can lead to a varying boost in performance.

OEMs are third party companies that put together computers for the general public, these computers do most basic functions, and some more expencive versions allow for more use. Even though some have expanded capabilities they still only alllow you to do so much. Things pertaining to the way the motherboard handles various processes IE the basic input output system (BIOS) is locked. Meaning that the end user has no way to change some of the systems functions.

If the system used PC2700 memory as a standard, then any speed higher than PC2700 will default back to PC2700 without changing the settings in the BIOS. Feel free to ask if you still need explaining on any or all of this,

Hm, yea, I was under the impression when I went RAM-hunting that older RAM wouldn't work, and newer would just work the same as PC2700. Anyway, since my config is fine with me except the video card, I don't care much about that at the moment. Thanks for the explanation though, it was useful.

ok, my turn.
Seems my laptop just cant handle factions (lag at 2-7seconds)...so I am going to build a new computer.....a small one at that (no space for anything bigger than a laptop right now).
SO with that in mind....we have found a case which requires an ATX (mini type itx?) mb.....SOOOOO I need HELP deciding on a graphics card to fit into said small factor case......money is not an issue but under 1k please! ($200-600 is optimum)

Please list ideas, thanks!

I will now appologize for hijacking the thread with my personal question....
OP, I am sorry that I asked for information in your thread for my personal use, please forgive me (yes, I am serious).
In the future I will post my own questions on my own thread and pray that someone will post answers or replies.
Cosyfiep
(ps I have noticed however, that I am the last to reply to this thread----this is my bad luck, so anyone else may just ignore my question and continue on with helping the OP.....)

I have a XFX 6600gt with a OEM PSU 300W, with p4 2.4, 2 drives (dvd recorder and dvd reader), and all that crappy stuff, like usb printer, ipod connected, pen drive dock conector bla bla, and i play good. And it's AGP.

Well, I think I'm as far to getting this thread solved as I ever will. Unfortunately, I have no idea where to find a small form-factor graphics card for you, cosypief (and I really don't mind the hijacking, as far as I can tell there wasn't any more help anyway ). I think I'll just buy the x1600 and be done with it.

if you goin to buy the radeon 1600 pro you will need a 450 watts for normal sytm operations. I have one X1600 pro

For the record wattage does not matter

Wattage = Volts x Amps, the important thing here is amperage. A PSU with a large amounts of amperage on a rail that sees less use, and less amperage on one that sees more use will result in your precious wattage meaning next to nothing. Stop spreading this rumor people!

Regardless, that's how psu's are identified. You won't notice the amount of ampere distribution unless you take a meter to it. You can do some simple math and figure out how many amps it's capable of distributing, but not what it's actually distributing to each device without a meter or doing some more math by looking at how much voltage/resistance = current (measured in amperes). You could also do some calculations to figure out power (measured in watts) = voltage*current. If a 100 watt light bulb operates on 120 volts it's operating at .833~ Amps, or 833 mili amps (mA). To figure this out you simply calculate current = power (watts)/ voltage.

Your logic is intriguing. We'll bump heads alittle, in order to perhaps learn alittle more. As i'm no electrician.

"Regardless, that's hwo psu's are identified."

Thats not the only way, thus the side sticker with all the other information, amperage for each rail being one of them.

"You won't notice the amount of ampere distribution unless you take a meter to it.You can do some simple math and figure out how many amps it's capable of distributing, but not what it's actually distributing to each device without a meter or doing some more math by looking at how much voltage/resistance = current (measured in amperes). You could also do some calculations to figure out power (measured in watts) = voltage*current. If a 100 watt light bulb operates on 120 volts it's operating at .833~ Amps, or 833 mili amps (mA). To figure this out you simply calculate current = power (watts)/ voltage."

I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion, I understand where your coming from though. Your saying that the amperage charts show what its capable of distributing, though thats not always the amount that is being distributed.

Which i'm fairly sure is well and good, for all but a few things. PSU's use three rails for power distribution (sp?) meaning that (atleast from everything i've read and seen) a specific portion of the PSU powers certain devices. The most powerful of which being the 12v rail, which supplies most of the power to the mobo / cpu.

If i'm understanding your logic correctly, then the fact that the distribution isn't always certain, doesn't really have much to do with what I mean. That is to say that i'm saying, for example:

12v - Weak
5.5v - Medium
3.3.v - Strong

In theory you'd get most of the components that draw a large portion of the amperage drawing from a weak rail, meaning that possible instability issues could ensue. Even though the distribution here isn't certain, we can assume that certain elements of the system are getting more power than others. Meaning that my formula of having rails that power more power hungry components, be more powerful still makes more sense. Otherwise i'm confused here, as like I said, i'm still learning myself.

Well, these are just simple basic calculations one can do to figure things out with math concerning power ditribution, and measurements in electricity. I'm an electronics graduate, and was just simply introducing some of these simple calculations and ohm's law from begining knowledge. Power fluctuations and distributions don't always contain a set value. Having set amounts of power for ditribution whether it be measured in amps, volts, watts, etc. is fairly common in electronics, having more devices absorbing more of that set amount of power will result in instability and may require a larger set amount. I'm not really challenging you to anything, just providing information. Saying "wattage does not matter" in relation to this though is not really correct, seeing how watts or power is a mathematical representation used to calculate current or amperes as well in a lot of cases. Also heat can be measured (in joules) as well, but that's beside the point.

Oh no, not a challenge of who is right or wrong. I'm more or less challenging myself to understand what you are saying, as it could prove useful later.

I was under the impression though from everything that i've read that the wattage as a whole is not as important as the distribution of the amperages that govern the amount of end wattage. As in having a higher amperage on a rail that is used less would result in a higher end wattage with an overall lessened amount of power to the components that use most of the power.

Although it's true that current is the main reason why some things operate, in a DC circuit or in digital, some things are more reliant on voltage signals as well. Like say a digital clock or other things, when all the numbers reset to 0 as a result a carrier is sent to a part on the chip like say, 5 volts for a second, to indicate that a number needs to be displayed if it was 0999 it turns to 1000.

I'm sort of getting off topic here, but basically what I was trying to point out is that you'll notice amps fluctuate when distributed to a device, similar to the voltage (although less noticable). Power (watts) in this equation does matter, given the power source. If watts/volts = current you will have less current or amps in the equation if a lesser watt power source is introduced. So, not really disagreeing with you, but just trying to show how they're related to eachother.

Guys, you can take it to the PSU thread if you'd like, I just picked that PSU beacuse I found a review that said it was one of the best ones for under $30. From the sound of it, no matter how you measure it, I will need a pretty expensive PSU if I get the X1600 Pro, so I'll just stick with the X1300 and hope for the best, possibly buy that $30 PSU if I need it for the card.

lol, ya sorry, glad you found a solution or what you wanted to buy.

Yeah, I apologize aswell. Grats to you for finding a solution that works for you

Nah, I wasn't arguing as in "omg your wrong, lemme show you the way it is" rather as in, "well didn't know that... elaborate", lol.