Inspired Hex (and similar) not workin as intended.

I'd like to know what you guys are using as a basis for saying the skill isn't working as intended. It does exactly what it says... it is replaced with the other skill. It doesn't say that it's able to be used. Please quote me a source in-game that supports your points, not "well it should be this way" or "well since it doesn't work this way it's broken."

Your comparison is not on the same basis. Having a skill unlocked on your account and having an entirely seperate, stand-alone chapter active are two seperate things. They can't be compared because they don't work in the same manner, barring ambiguous analogies. Arena Net has made it clear in the past that unless you have Factions, you can't use Factions skills. I see no variation from their precedence here.

I'm surprised there's any debate over this. The OP's case is completely reasonable here. The Inspired Hexes of the game will not function properly if by some chance they copy a Factions skill. The owner's access or lack thereof to Factions is completely incidental here...almost to the point of being irrelevant. Because the fact of the matter is, Inspired Hex and the skills like it were always understood to capture other skills for use, if only temporarily.

Yes, the description itself uses "replace."

But honestly, realistically, and seriously...how many of us ever understood those skills to only be replacing and not allowing us to use a Migraine on the opposing Mesmer?

That's what I thought.

And that's exactly why I don't see some of these rebuttals as having much intelligence or logical reasoning behind them. Because we all know what Inspired Hex is supposed to do. Because we all know what it does. And most importantly, because we all have either used it or seen it used at some point or another and know exactly what's going to happen after that: the copied skill is going to get rocked around on the battlefield.

Is the OP's request a desire to cheat? Absolutely not. He's not looking to cheat the system at all. All he's asking is for a handful of skills to be revised so that they can function correctly in the new game environment.

And that's not such an absurd request. Grabbing something like Conjure Nightmare or a random Rit hex isn't going to pose a huge threat, because, like the problems we see presently with Inspired Hex-ish skills, the copied skill usually has a crap performance due to the player not even having the attribute spread to support it, and that's if they happen to be of the skill's original profession, which sometimes isn't the case at all.

Giving players the ability to use Factions skills when they manage to grab one when using Inspired Hex-ish skills would be cheating?

The Inspired Hex skills themselves can be considered cheat skills. I mean, hell...we've got Arcane Thievery/Larceny for crying out loud.

From a philosophical standpoint...it makes more sense for Inspired Hexers (and their ilk) to be able to use any skill they copy with Inspired Hex, etc. Because they're using a thief skill to begin with that bypasses profession limitations.

And if that's not an option, then the description itself needs to be changed.

QFT

Wow.. what's this? Playing the wordsmith aren't we?

So tell me, where in the spell description does it say "and only usable if you have paid for the campaign the spell is from"?

It doesn't affect me, since I neither play mesmer and paid for Factions, but hey, this is YET another example of Anet's anal small minded thinking.

I would like to point out the supreme stupidity that comes around from this line of thinking...

Arcane Echo Core 15 2 30
Enchantment Spell. If you cast a "spell" in the next 20 seconds, Arcane Echo is replaced with that spell for 20 seconds. Arcane Echo ends prematurely if you use a non-spell skill.

I'll see if I can put this into your perspective... "Hmmm... so I cast Meteor Shower, Arcane Echo... and get to stare at my pretty 'locked' icon of Meteor Shower??? Yes, yes I do... because it replaced Arcane Echo, and replaced doesn't mean I can use it???"

No, I think the idea behind the Inspired and Revealed Hex and Enchantments is like Arcane Echo; you use the skill than can cast it as if it was on your skill bar. The probable reason that they didn't get revamped for this is because they are relatively limited in their use; as a monk I've sometimes used them for energy management, but not for throwing around enchantments and hexes. So, I doubt the folks at ArenaNet have even noticed.

There is no valid argument here as to why Inspired Hex shouldn't be able to use the replaced hex.

Look at the skill descriptions for Echo and Arcane Echo. Even Arcane Mimicry(which says "becomes" instead of "replaced" it's that's still the exact same concept).

Either fix the usage of this skill, and any other skills such as Revealed Hex, Inspired Hex, and Arcane Mimicry, or change the description of the skills.

However if the description is changed, it's essentialy giving the owners of multiple chapters an unfair advantage, by allowing them to potentialy gain more from the usage of one spell.

Simple:

Remove a Hex from target ally and gain 3-13 Energy. For 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced by the Hex that was removed.

Right now it isnt replaced by the Hex that was removed if you do not own the chapter it is from...Its replaced with the icon because the actual hex is nonexistant.

"Yeah, yeah, it technically says x. But we've always thought it meant y, so if it isn't y then it's broken!"?

Really, where were there locked skills like this before Factions? New things sometimes let you see others in a new light.

Skill descriptions are very strict in their definitions. Not being able to use a skill when you don't have the campaign it's in is not within the realm of the Inspired Hex skill. If Inspired Hex successfully removes a hex, then it gives you energy. The skillbar is really just a bunch of shortcuts, so it removes the link to Inspired Hex and replaces it with a link to the hex spell it removed. It then waits 20 seconds, and reverts it.

The hex is actually there. It isn't "nonexistant". It has to give it to the content owners somehow. But along with the "are you wielding the right weapon?" type checks, comes the "do you own the right campaign?" check. But this is done when you try to use a skill. Inspired Hex doesn't try to use it for you; it doesn't even say you can use it. Just that it's replaced by it. And, really, the link to Inspired Hex was indeed replaced by a link to the hex you removed. This is why it isn't broken. It does exactly what it says. Telling us that you interpreted it differently is a poor reason to call it "broken".

Now, whether it should grant special access is a bit different. It doesn't matter to me either way as I own both expansions, but I'm not against it.

I can see and understand your argument and reasoning, but it isn't cheating the system really.

"Why can't I use my skill to cheat the system and use two elites?" Arcane Mimicry lets you.

"Why can't I use a Protection Prayers spell I haven't unlocked?" Arcane Thievery/Larceny lets you.

That's how Mesmer skills work. They do give you loopholes.

It's not a matter of thinking a description meant Y. It's a matter of knowing a description meant Y. And in these cases, all players who have ever used the Inspired Hex-type skills know precisely what those skill descriptions are going to mean. New chapters should not change that at all. Pay attention to the word "think" versus the word "know" here, because it's a very important distinction here. The players KNOW what Inspired Hex is supposed to do. Because it does it with Prophecies skills. And like I just said...new chapters should not change how that process works. Read robrobrob's post above me. "That's how Mesmer skills work. They do give you loopholes." He is absolutely correct.

You're making this far too complicated than it should ever be. And your above paragraphs might as well be considered spam, because they're not even addressing the issue at hand. If I were so inclined, I'd say you were trying to dodge the issue here by fudging out a response. But you aren't a spin-doctor...so please...don't try to be. lol

In fact...I re-read your above paragraphs, and you aren't saying anything important. In fact, you aren't even making a point. You're crapping out some vague, meandering response that haphazardly jumbles together some bizarre tangents about "links" in skills. You're bordering on lame philosophical discourse and it just doesn't work for you.

No- Inspired hex does exactly what it's description says and means. It removes a hex and is replaced by that hex for 20 seconds. It says nothing at all about whether or not you can actually use that hex in any way. As for "all players who have ever used the Inspired Hex-type skills know precisely what those skill descriptions are going to mean, I've been using inspired hex since the beta weekends before prophecies release, and I don't expect it to allow me to cast skills in a chapter I don't own.

Being able to use the hex that replaces Inspired Hex is an occasional benefit of the skill, it's not part of the function of the skill. The inability to cast a spell you don't own is completely unrelated to whether or not some other effect(inspired hex, etc) can give you that skill temporarily on your skill bar.

You bring up that mesmer skills "break the rules". Yes- they break the rules in exactly the way that the skill description says. Arcane mimicry reads " For 20 seconds, Arcane Mimicry becomes the elite spell from target other ally." So, for 20 seconds, Arcane Mimicry becomes a second elite skill on your bar, because the skill description says so. I see nowhere in the skill description for inspired hex saying "For 20 seconds, you can cast that hex", instead it says "for 20 seconds, Inspired Hex is replaced by that spell".

As for comparing skills from other chapters to skills that you don't have unlocked, there is a significant difference. If I own prophecies, and steal Migraine with inspired hex, even if I don't have Migraine unlocked, I have the possibility of unlocking/having that skill. Conversely, I only have Factions and steal it with Revealed hex, there is no way that I could have Migraine without owning Prophecies.

In any case, what any of us think makes no difference. Everything discussed here is based off of people's interpretations of the intent and descriptions of the skills. The only interpretation that really matters is the interpretation given by ArenaNet- which quite obviously seems to be "you cannot use skills from a chapter that you do not own".

Where in the description does it say "that skill is useable, regardless of if you own the campaign the spell is from"? The fact of the matter is, the description says nothing about whether you are able to use the skill. If I use Arcane Mimicry to copy Eviscerate from an ally, and I have no axe on my character, I am unable to use that skill because I don't meet the requirement of having an axe. If I use Inspired Hex to steal Shadow Shroud and don't have access to Factions, I am unable to use that skill because I don't meet the requirement of having Factions...

Well since you want to play the wordsmith then perhaps I should turn the tables on you and counter by asking where does it say it is not usable? Likewise is a skill defined by Anet in any literature that came with the game as "can be not usable"?

What the hell, so Inspired Hex becomes the skill, when's the last time you've seen an equiped skill that is not usable? Oh right, none, it never happens. Please don't use the axe skill while wielding sword example, it is not even a valid analogy. By the way I took a look at the skill trader in Kaineng at the new Factions only skills, and none of them say that something to the effect of "this skill is only usable for faction account holders". Nope, doesn't happen. It never says that. And hence for all intents and purposes the "skill" you cloned using inspired hex is a valid skill, and currently it is broken when players cannot cast it.

I've made my point, I've heard all you've got to make. If anything yours was really weak.

Lastly in retort to all your BS spindoctor arguments, you cannot deny then that the mere existence of factions put GW:P users of inspired hex at a disadvantage?

Why?

Solely for the reason that when said mesmer is playing against another mesmer who've unlocked subsequent chapters, previously he can not only remove the hex from his ally, gain energy (blah blah and all that bullshit), but he can also foist it back to his opponent, returning the good favor where it came from.

Now you can't. Along with many strategic limitations

Whether you've "unlocked" it or not is of no major consequence, this "loophole" is so extremely situational that only a nutjob will make a build solely for the express purpose of swindling a few dollars out of Anet.

What it all boils down to?

Pretty much the same with the stupid walkways and the recurring round after round after round of nerf bats, Anet's anal smallmindedness.

And that is something you cannot refute in face of current evidence.

How is how the spell works off-topic and "far too complicated"?

Oh, right. It's not a "Well, I thought it was this, so that's how it should be." response.

Everyone "knew" that it worked that way until Factions was released because there were no locked skills. Now there are - oh no, something new! Inspired Hex isn't broken, you just have something else to think about. I'm sure the "players" also "know", though, that this hasn't even been thought up in a skill balancing session. Because they're good at just "knowing" these types of things.

Calling people "wordsmiths" when they explain how a spell works to you doesn't help either. It doesn't need to say it isn't useable. You know that some skills are restricted by campaign, so it doesn't need to spell it out for you. The popup is to tell you how the spell itself works, not the game. It's like adding "If you have no energy, then you can't cast it" or "If the target is resistant to cold, it will do less damage" to the descriptions.

That said, I believe that it tells you that you need Factions if you get a skill that belongs to it. But not Inspired Hex, because it's not even dealing with using any skills.

For the both of you, I'm going to ask one question so your bullshit can end:

What has Inspired Hex always done?

You want to talk about the intent of the skill? Talk about what Inspired Hex has always done.

If you give me a meandering response again that doesn't come anywhere close to actually addressing the point, instead trying to pull some craptacular spin-doctoring, I'm going to request that your posts be deleted, because as far as I'm concerned...they're not contributing to the thread, because they're not saying anything meaningful. "The skill description doesn't say those copied skills would be useable" is not a valid response, because the Inspired Hexes of the game give us the ability to use those copied skills. That's their effect.

So are you telling me there are "chapter close skills"? So we have some skills that only work "correctly" (oh sorry read this: "work one way") interacting only with his own chapter skills, and incorrectly (oh, sorry again, read this: "work a different way") interacting with other chapter skills.

Ok great, and what about balance?

Inspired Hex is just 1 example about what this can become past some years.
If Guild Wars survive 10 years ( I hope this) we are going to see like 12-14 chapters more.
Do we have to expect sometime to see skills only interruptable using the "right chapter skills" (hahaha you nOOb can't interrupt me, you don't purchased last chapter)?
Are we going to see unremovable kind of hexes becouse we don't own the right campaign?
(Poor monk your convert Hexes is not going to work with my Chapter 7 Super-Hex!!)

Ye, I know those are fantastic stupid example, but is only to show what I fear with the example of "inspired hex".

Anoyone really imagine I can make a viable build with the idea of "replacing" different chapters casual skills?
If someone doesn't own Factions is not going to be an Assassin or Ritualist primary or secondary profession, so having for 20 seconds an Assassin or Ritualist skill is pretty no use for him.

I'm not sayin "I don't wanna buy Factions but I wanna copy Factions skill to own in pvp!", becouse "I have Factions" and becouse "none would own in pvp that way".

Actually I can play every skill in every chapter (hey, I paid for that).
But is the idea behind what my guildy discovered, that I don't like.

And this idea is what I wanna discuss here, not the REAL obscure meaning hidden behind the Insperd Hex skill description.

I really think this is a bug or a mistake and would be no harm for them to make those unuseful stealed skill "clickable".

yes it is. eviscerate requires axe equipped is analogous to images of remorse requires factions key added to account.

no. their effect is to put the hex on your skillbar. THAT'S ALL.

Bull. The effect is putting the hex on your skillbar so you can use it against the enemy. Try it. We have guild scrimmages now so you can try it, so you'll be able to stop talking out of your ass. lol

of course! how could i have missed that?[/sarcasm] still doesn't change that if you haven't paid for factions, you don't get to use factions content.

This is pathetic...

Ok so you have a skill on your skillbar. It is not recharging, and you have sufficient energy to use it. Why should you not be able to use it? The entire point of your skillbar is you should be able to use skills, assuming you can meet the required cost for said skills, and said skills are not recharging.



Not being able to use the "replaced" hex if you don't own the chapter that hex is from is a serious balance issue. ANET has even said that you won't be at a disadvantage if you don't purchase multiple chapters, the way this skill currently works goes against that.

I own both Factions and Prophicies, however lets say I only own prophicies:

I use Inspired Hex on a hex from Factions. That hex is then placed on my skillbar. I have diversion on me, and there is no hex removals left available on my team. I need to cast. If I owned both chapters, I could burn the hex that I recently removed, but since I don't I'm at an inherent strategic disadvantage, one that I would not be in if I owned both chapters.



If Inspired Hex wasn't meant to let you use the hexes you remove, then why can people use hexes from chapters they own with it? I mean the skill description only says "replaced" it never said you can use them. Of course, it does let you use them. So your entire 'point' is invalid.

To ppls yelling: "the skill is replaced but this doesn't mean you can use it"

I give you these examples:

RULES of the game: You can't use or equip in your skillbar any LOCKED SKILL in your account, doesn't matter PvP or PvE.

FACT: if you steal 1 LOCKED SKILL (in your account) with Inspered Hex (or any similar) you can USE it.

RULES of the game: you can't use or equip in your skillbar any skill of any profession different from your first 2 professions.

FACT: If you have a Monk/Mesmer and steal a necro hex you can use it(with poor or none effect but you can).

Don't give me the example of axes or sword skills, becouse my monk uses a sword as secondary weapon so I possibly can use a stealed sword skill. AND if your warrior hasn't an axe he can't use an axe skill either, but that's how axe skills works!!

Why if I'm mesmer secondary I can't use a mesmer hex (factions) that DON'T require axes or sword or wathever?

This is GAMEPLAY. Nothing to do with money you paid.

Skill descriptions have never stated or implied a purpose. They tell you strictly what it does, and allow you to think up it's purpose instead.

It tells you what it does, and does it just fine. What it's "supposed" to be used for is up to you. I don't see skills like Parasitic Bond telling me that "this skill is only for a quick heal when your target is close to death".

To answer your big question, I've been telling you practically every post now. Including that one you labelled off-topic.

So, stay on topic please.

So because you possess a sword, that means you can use a sword skill.
And if my warrior does not possess an axe, he can't use an axe skill.
And if you do not possess a Factions enabled account, you can't use Factions-specific skills. Why does the first two make the third unjustifiable?

While it may not require a specific weapon, it does require a specific campaign.

Content is linked to the money you've paid, so it is far from irrelevant.