E-denial revisited, please

All the e-denial builds that I find seem to be posted from last year. Things have dramatically changed since then. I have been playing my Mesmer as a IW tank in PvE, but am trying E-denial in the Alliance PvP battles. I just kind of threw this build together based on some research, and it seems to work very, very well if used with an organized team that is doing damage at the same time. Doesn't do well 1v1with pretty much anything, since it is more caster hate, rather than big time damage dealer, though does do some nice damage. Well, that being said, here it is. Please, please feel free to pick it apart and make suggestions to make it better.

F.C. 12 (11+1)
Dom. 14 (10+3+1)
Ill. 2 (1+1)
Insp. 11 (10+1)

pts left 0

Diversion
Energy Burn
Energy Surge {E}
Shame (for Monks)
Guilt (for dmg casters)
Energy Tap
Ether Feast
Blackout

In my experience in the Alliance Arena no one carries a Rez Sig since you are rezed anyway fairly quickly. In other Arenas I would replace Blackout for the Rez sig.

This is fairly typical E-surger build. I would switch Ether Feast for Drain Enchantment and Guilt for Res Signet (even in alliance battles and DEFINITELY for GvG)

Diversion
Shame
E-Tap
Blackout
E-Burn
E-Surge
Drain Enchantment
Res

This is totally usual, standard E-Surge/shutdown build and is known to work by many a mesmer.
Drop inspiration down to 9 (8+1)
FC at 12 (11+1)
Domination at 16 (12+1+3) and you should be good to go. If you need anti caster by all means use guilt but use instead of E-Tap.

Enjoy

Thx, I'll give that a shot. But 1 question. I actually added in Ether Feast. Sure it only takes 3 energy from your opponent, but I was having a tough time staying alive without some type of self heal, since as is the case in all PvP Monks are set-upon immediately. I had much better success staying in the fray with it on. But, I'll give your build a shot, and see how it goes. Also, the attribute distribution doesn't work that you posted. I can only get 15 in Dom unless I drop F.C. to 11.

Quote: Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

lol, Power Leak is my favourite skill as you probably know but its an interrupt and if Dr. Fire is new to e-denial I thought he might not make good enough use of it. Otherwise I would post an e-denial build with just 3 skills
MoR {E}
Power Leak
Shame

Thank you very much.

I recommend the following for classic e-denial:

1- E-surge
2- E-burn
3- Sig of Weariness
4- Mindwrack
5- Spirit Shackles
6- Energy Tap - Drain Enchantment
7- Well of Weariness
Res

Shackwrack vs Rangers, Warriors, and Assassins (!!!), rest for casters. Well is great corpse control, cheap and low cast/recharge, and it's like making every enemy in the area maintain an enchantment. There is very little point in putting over 14 points in Domination, although I know for my part I go with 15. Rest should be in Inspiration and FC, with very little in Curses (WoW is an extremely long lasting spell, I believe at max Curses it lasts about 45s, so... you won't need more than like 20-ish I think)

Blackout for res sig? More like diversion for res sig -.-
Drain enchantment+New factions skill:Feedback would be nifty

Most importantly; where is the mind wrack?

Dr. Fire
16 Domination 12 dom + mask + superior rune (use+30hp staff to balance out)
9 Inspiration 8 Insp. + minor rune
11/12 FC (can't remember) 10 FC + minor rune

You get the idea. Eaimirth would you rather have mind wrack than blackout ??? The old shackles/mind wrack combo is soo old and well known, any half decent team will have it removed in seconds. This is why I think blackout is better, diversion perhaps not equally as good but certainly as useful. If you can disable enemies elite attack with diversion (e.g. Eviscerate) they will run away crying for their mummies

Shackwrack owns, are u kidding me? So what if they remove it? You can't recast it? Come on now. Expell hexes isn't THAT popular and if they remove the Wrack, heck... it's a cover hex, re-cover the Shacks. Remove the Shacks, too? Well... it's got 5s recharge, it's really not a big deal. So now, 2 5s recharge hexes are removed and we gonna cry over spilled milk? No. Reapply. I'm curious how a Monk is gonna come even close to winning a hex battle vs Shackwrack. And Shackwrack MURDERs Assassins (!!!) and Rangers and severely disables Warriors (they rarely go full adrenaline).

Mehh, alright its 'quite' good. But only against attackers, and I never play anti ranger/warrior/assassin builds. I'm strictly an energy sucking punk.

Could you argue Shackwrack is better than blackout ?? Its doubtful you could use both of them in build and still be affective. For strict energy denial shackwrack is hands down winner + a nice 90 dmg spike. For general enemy annoyance blackout wins in my books. Monks can't do squat for 7 seconds, warriors lose adrenaline etc etc.

Would you rather own casters and be totally helpless versus anything that does attack damage or would you rather have an ace in the pocket for either?

I could care less about shack-wrack
I'm talking focus swapping here.

Wow! All outstanding suggestions. One other question. How much have you guys played in the new Alliance arenas? We are talking 12v12. Seven cap points. Lot's of action. And, I am telling you guys, no one, and I mean NO ONE is doing any rezing, because you respawn pretty darn quick. After a day of battling there I would say that Hella Good's build might be the best all around. You definately need lot's of melee hate there. Monk ownage is nice, but you need something for the melee folks as well.

I would maybe spread your skills out a bit. Its unlikely to come up against a decent interrupter mesmer in alliance battles so drop fast casting and get some illusion. Then take images of remorse and conjure phantasm as well as spirit of failure. Skills might look like this

images of remorse
conjure phantasm
spirit of failure
E-Surge
E-Burn
Signet of Weariness
Drain Enchantment
Res

I realise thats spreading out a bit too much but its just an idea. If I had it my way you'd only need 2 skills for energy denial (monk ownage as you call it) Shame and power leak but they are tricky skills and you really need MoR for them. I think its a bad idea to split up your skills too much and the shackwrack idea should stop warriors at least attacking if they know what they are doing. Otherwise they'll take a big spike from mind wrack.

Yea, that might not be a bad idea. I haven't bumped into to many int Mesmers there, mostly e-denial, or lot's of Illusion DoT's and spikes (Ineptitude, Clumsiness). IW Mesmers seem to have fallen onto hard times, cause you don't see em much anymore. The biggest problem with low FC is the Rangers, and there are generally lot's of em. You see lot's of Rangers, Ele's, Warriors there with the MM, or SS, or both Necro's added in. Mesmers are generally few and far between. Monks are usually around, and generally running for their lives. There are some good ones around, though, that can make life difficult.

Sigh... here we go again... Shackwrack solves all Ranger and Assassin (and to some extent Warrior) problems for the following reasons:

1) Shackwrack is spammable (10/3/5, 5/1/5, enuf said)

2) Shackwrack is highly effective- 5 nrg lost per attack means- other things equal- 6-7 normal attacks will completely destroy the nrg pool of a R or A. Granted this doesn't include regen, zealous nrg gain, nrg benefits of Expertise and Criticals, use of nrg management skills; it also doesn't include use of skills, which (doh) cost nrg. In practice, and based on my humble experience (I have played every single PvP format to death rly), Shackwrack totally kills the nrg pool of a R/A in no more than 10s.

3) Shackwrack doesn't require ANY points in Illusion for a combination that is clearly apar Illusion War Hate, and it only requires 1 skill on your skillbar you might not normally take in an e-denial build (Spirit Shacks).

Spammable, highly effective, fits right in- I am amazed people refuse to accept these obvious- it seems- truths about Shackwrack.

Plus, E-denial is so ridiculously easy that you need to worry about which skills NOT to take, so that you don't overdo it and end up wasting slots on your skill bar. In fact, e-denial just recently recieved a BUFF of the damage component and a nice adjustments to the nrg drain component, which provides for higher damage and more efficiency of e-denial skills. Before, you would end up getting your target's nrg to 0 so fast, you would waste the damage part of the skills to keep em at 0. Now, it works perfectly, with less waste and more damage.

Diversion and Blackout are NOT e-denial skills. If you want to mix and match, fine. I like to keep my e-denial and shutdown separate with rare cross-overs in GvG and HA only. Perhaps that is why my e-denial doesn't require Diversion or Blackout- it's pure massive e-drain. Lemme see you using skills I need to Divert/Black out with no nrg... I mean seriously... Plus, my e-drain is universal- geared towards both casters and fighters, and handling both parties extremely efficiently.

Well, anyways, you guys got me typing too much.

So now warriors carry CoP which just enhances my theory that it should have been nerfed harder than it was the last time it was nerfed...

Just to counter shackwrack; 'sins are doing the same as well. (especially with all their cheap cost enchantments)

CoP-> 10s recharge, costs them 5 nrg for CoP, MIN 5ngr for removed chant (or if some1 else is chanting them this can be neglected)

Shackwrack-> 5s recharge spammable. You can quickly reapply and rape them in a few seconds with it anyway.

Let them use CoP- they are doing themselves in with it by wasting their nrg.

Hella is right (not that he is ever wrong is seems), you only need a few skills to be efficient at energy denial. (power leak me baby) So you have a few slots (rest used for energy mangement + res) to totally disable rangers/assassins and some energy using warriors (you could at least stop shock warriors using frenzy/sprint) with spirit shackles. Mind wrack not only covers spirit shackles but providies a nice damage spike for the inevitable 0 energy.

Dunno why I even bothered arguing against him, he's mind powers are too strong. I was just simply saying I like blackout because its a universal piss off and kills warriors adrenaline (personally I love the blackout warrior W/Me and my guild plan to use 2 of them from now on, after I've finished perfecting the build)

Cop is too good but if warriors are W/Mo I wouldn't be too worried personally. Probably just use blackout on them or use shame if they tried to use CoP and deplete their pitiful energy supply.

Shame does not stop CoP by any means.
2 ways to stop CoP; 1 energy denial, 2 disabling the skill (diversion, BO, etc)

Deplete an assassin's energy supply...yea right.
I would like to point out a few things.
1. They have the same energy regen as you do
2. They get more due to critical strikes.

So theoretically unless you use a skill; they have a higher regen rate than the mesmer (which...blows imo) So theoretically; if you Shackles them; they can put up an enc, then cop it. You used 10 energy; they used 10 energy. Even ground. If you put up mind wrack; they can spend another 5 energy for another enchantment; even ground. However while you wait for recharge; they are going to beat the living hell out of you (which will suck as assassins are quite good at it)