I think monks are too powerful, because if a team has a good monk or better two or three of them the team works great, but if you have a team without a monk the team is dead. No other class in GW has such a great influence on the success of a team.
I think all classes should have the same influence on the the success of the team and this will remove the waiting time to get a monk in the party.
The best way to reduce the monks power is to lower the effect of their healing spells and of divine favor.
Monks are too powerful
Wizard1200
Lasareth
Counters already exist to monks. Since you're basically assured at least one monk on the other team, then by logic you should have an interrupter or spellblock spammer on hand to keep them busy.
Also, monks are limited by their ability to heal multiple people at once. If you're attacking two at once, the monk's gotta spread the love and has to carry twice the load.
Being the sole healer of the party is a hard task. But then, play a bit of PvE with only one healer henchmen and see what happens when she dies
Multiple monks suck, but there's probably a way to counter that too. (as annoying as they may be)
Also, monks are limited by their ability to heal multiple people at once. If you're attacking two at once, the monk's gotta spread the love and has to carry twice the load.
Being the sole healer of the party is a hard task. But then, play a bit of PvE with only one healer henchmen and see what happens when she dies
Multiple monks suck, but there's probably a way to counter that too. (as annoying as they may be)
Zeru
Healing must be stronger than damage for the game to work right. Otherwise too many monks will be needed to negate damage and monks would be obselete because rather than countering damage you're just delaying it, so packing more damage would be better.
If this is pve, who cares. Yeah monks get chosen first. They also have to endure by far the most crap from idiots. Take your pick.
For pvp, bring a good mesmer and he can shutdown 2 monks. Disruption is the counter to healing
What you say is true but it still doesn't make them overpowered. Just needed for the game to work the right way.
If this is pve, who cares. Yeah monks get chosen first. They also have to endure by far the most crap from idiots. Take your pick.
For pvp, bring a good mesmer and he can shutdown 2 monks. Disruption is the counter to healing
What you say is true but it still doesn't make them overpowered. Just needed for the game to work the right way.
Zuggy
Monks may be able to keep a team alive but unless they focus on smiting over one of the other attirbutes, they're not going to do much damage. My monk has healing and divine favor maxed out. Between the 2 my orison of healing will heal for over 100 hp, but my smiting skills do small amounts of damage.
I can heal for a hell of a lot, and with spellbreaker, I'm more then a small annoyance to spellcasters (especially mesmers), but if a warrior comes after me I still have to haul ass.
Another thing you have to take into consideration, is that monks don't get many spells to heal themselves. Most monk spells are to heal OTHER ally.
I enjoy my monk and recently have perfected my craft to keep the dumbest players alive in the worst situations. However, I still stand by my trusty monk proverb "All the energy in the world can't heal an idiot"
I can heal for a hell of a lot, and with spellbreaker, I'm more then a small annoyance to spellcasters (especially mesmers), but if a warrior comes after me I still have to haul ass.
Another thing you have to take into consideration, is that monks don't get many spells to heal themselves. Most monk spells are to heal OTHER ally.
I enjoy my monk and recently have perfected my craft to keep the dumbest players alive in the worst situations. However, I still stand by my trusty monk proverb "All the energy in the world can't heal an idiot"
cyberzomby
Zuggy i just got the opposite problem
I got no defense against casters but warriors no problem
Just enfeeble and faithernes them
Monks are nice, but need to be played right, and yes there are lots of counters
I got no defense against casters but warriors no problem
Just enfeeble and faithernes them
Monks are nice, but need to be played right, and yes there are lots of counters
Makkert
Muhahaha!
- a monk.
- a monk.
Luna Thirteen
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Wizard1200
I think monks are too powerful...
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Principa Discordia
Nerf posts make baby Jesus cry, and make me wish I had mod in Sardelac.
none
Mesmers are too powerful, because they can shutdown helpless Monks.
Monks are too powerful, because they can outheal any Warrior.
Warriors are too powerful, because they can smack Elementalists' butts.
Elementalists are too powerful because they can turn your fellow Ranger into charcoal.
Rangers are too powerful (and they are cowards) because they never fight alone and make their pet attack Necromancers family jewels.
Necromancers are too powerful because they steal life from Mesmers and get healed for that (which is utterly unfair).
Mesmers are too powerful, because they can shutdown peaceful Monks.
Monks are too powerful ..
Who wants to start a petition to remove all the overpowered classes from Guild Wars? It's about time we all master the arts of the Gwen-class (happy dancing, never being attacked, and areaheal everyon now and then)
Monks are too powerful, because they can outheal any Warrior.
Warriors are too powerful, because they can smack Elementalists' butts.
Elementalists are too powerful because they can turn your fellow Ranger into charcoal.
Rangers are too powerful (and they are cowards) because they never fight alone and make their pet attack Necromancers family jewels.
Necromancers are too powerful because they steal life from Mesmers and get healed for that (which is utterly unfair).
Mesmers are too powerful, because they can shutdown peaceful Monks.
Monks are too powerful ..
Who wants to start a petition to remove all the overpowered classes from Guild Wars? It's about time we all master the arts of the Gwen-class (happy dancing, never being attacked, and areaheal everyon now and then)
Principa Discordia
Any class can beat any class, it's just a matter of who's at the keyboard and if they have a clue about how to plan and execute an attack.
Nerf intelligent people who understand tactics and planning!
Nerf intelligent people who understand tactics and planning!
KvanCetre
Yes, monks are so powerful that almost every decent team needs 3 of them to stay alive.
Eet GnomeSmasher
Monks are probably only too powerful in the random arenas where other classes like Rangers and Mesmers are played by people who don't know what theyre doing and don't know how to shutdown a monk. Not to say all Monks are played by skilled players...but it's an easier class to play.
I have never seen a Mesmer in the random arenas shutdown two monks at once. I wish that I've met such a Mesmer but so far I havent. Also it doesnt help that a lot of people are clueless and attack warriors first instead of the monk (WHY?!?!)
Anyway, in concusion, Monks are simple and direct and yes really powerful compared to the shutdown classes so of course they'll seem overpowered.
EDIT: But yeah I do find it annoying that the dependancy and importance of Monks is so great.
I have never seen a Mesmer in the random arenas shutdown two monks at once. I wish that I've met such a Mesmer but so far I havent. Also it doesnt help that a lot of people are clueless and attack warriors first instead of the monk (WHY?!?!)
Anyway, in concusion, Monks are simple and direct and yes really powerful compared to the shutdown classes so of course they'll seem overpowered.
EDIT: But yeah I do find it annoying that the dependancy and importance of Monks is so great.
CaptainGuru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lasareth
Counters already exist to monks. Since you're basically assured at least one monk on the other team, then by logic you should have an interrupter or spellblock spammer on hand to keep them busy.
Also, monks are limited by their ability to heal multiple people at once. If you're attacking two at once, the monk's gotta spread the love and has to carry twice the load. Being the sole healer of the party is a hard task. But then, play a bit of PvE with only one healer henchmen and see what happens when she dies Multiple monks suck, but there's probably a way to counter that too. (as annoying as they may be) |
The ranger has to use the choking gas + snare + Deb. Shot.
The mesmer has to shutdown the monk's energy (Power Drain, Power Spike and Energy Drain) because shutting down a monk's spell isn't option if they are using Divine Boon. Backfire will not kill a monk because they can get rid of the hex and/or use Divine Boon to heal through it.
If the team you are fighting has two or three monks, you're most likely are going loose.
QuixotesGhost
I'd say every class has ways to counter monks.
Warriors can keep him on his butt (and not healing) with hammers.
Necros can spread a ton of DoT around to put pressure on em.
Elems can spike a guy before he has time to react.
Warriors can keep him on his butt (and not healing) with hammers.
Necros can spread a ton of DoT around to put pressure on em.
Elems can spike a guy before he has time to react.
Indigo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost
I'd say every class has ways to counter monks.
Warriors can keep him on his butt (and not healing) with hammers. Necros can spread a ton of DoT around to put pressure on em. Elems can spike a guy before he has time to react. |
Mesmers can drain his/her power (and keep him/her from healing).
Just to round out the classes there...
CaptainGuru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost
I'd say every class has ways to counter monks.
Warriors can keep him on his butt (and not healing) with hammers. Necros can spread a ton of DoT around to put pressure on em. Elems can spike a guy before he has time to react. |
2) Most teams take 1 Necromancers.
3) This requires enough spike els to do it and for the monk not to have anti-spell enchantment. (i.e Spellbreaker.)
Tactical-Dillusions
I have been in a team that hasn't had a monk and we've beaten the enemy team with two or more monks, many times in PvP.
Makkert
Quote:
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Originally Posted by none
Mesmers are too powerful, because they can shutdown helpless Monks.
Monks are too powerful, because they can outheal any Warrior. Warriors are too powerful, because they can smack Elementalists' butts. Elementalists are too powerful because they can turn your fellow Ranger into charcoal. Rangers are too powerful (and they are cowards) because they never fight alone and make their pet attack Necromancers family jewels. Necromancers are too powerful because they steal life from Mesmers and get healed for that (which is utterly unfair). Mesmers are too powerful, because they can shutdown peaceful Monks. Monks are too powerful .. |
ranger > elementalist (the long casting time and bowtime interriupts match better, armor vs elem for ranger)
elementalist > mesmer (energy drain effective short term?)
mesmer > monk
monk > necro (life vs death?)
necro > warrior
warrior > ranger (keeps ranger busy on longer term)
offcourse, this is quite shallow. but just wanted to make a fun cycle.
Thomasuwoo
Don't like monks eh? Bring quickening zepher, pred season and deabilitaing shot.
Oh but now the monks on YOUR team can't do anything? You just said they are too powerful....
Oh but now the monks on YOUR team can't do anything? You just said they are too powerful....
Kazahana
i got a better idea lets nerf good players how about every win in pvp makes your screen get like drinking dwarven ale and it gets worse and worse as you win then the crappy players that cry nerf to everyone might have a chance to win!!!
sounds like a plan....
/sarcasm
sounds like a plan....
/sarcasm
Cymmina
Damage is just too high in GW, requiring healing to be really effective to offset it. Damage needs to be the way it is because mob hp is too high to offset their crappy AI.
It doesn't help that most professions other than monk have a crappy self heal. Warrior and ranger self heals aren't too bad, but elementalist (aura of restoration) is particularly bad and mesmer (ether feast) has a really high recharge and requires energy to work (kinda sucky if you are an energy denial build). Even if self heals were given a bit of a boost, there's people out there that firmly believe that only the dedicated healer should be carrying healing (or defensive) skills. That's why you see so many people thinking you need 3 monks.
It doesn't help that most professions other than monk have a crappy self heal. Warrior and ranger self heals aren't too bad, but elementalist (aura of restoration) is particularly bad and mesmer (ether feast) has a really high recharge and requires energy to work (kinda sucky if you are an energy denial build). Even if self heals were given a bit of a boost, there's people out there that firmly believe that only the dedicated healer should be carrying healing (or defensive) skills. That's why you see so many people thinking you need 3 monks.
arnansnow
I would think monks would be destroyed by a good mesmer with interrupts and backfire.
CaptainGuru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Makkert
close... let me give a try here also.
ranger > elementalist (the long casting time and bowtime interriupts match better, armor vs elem for ranger) elementalist > mesmer (energy drain effective short term?) mesmer > monk monk > necro (life vs death?) necro > warrior warrior > ranger (keeps ranger busy on longer term) offcourse, this is quite shallow. but just wanted to make a fun cycle. |
Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior
GranDeWun
Actually, (speaking of PvE), the fixation of teams on having two monks is ridiculous. I've gone thru plenty of missions across 4 characters with no monks...the real problem is too many people who take NO defenses and thus die unless they have their own personlal monk. Sad, really.
rotor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by CaptainGuru
WTF?
Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior |
ranger > elementalist > mesmer > monk > necro > warrior
arnansnow
I consider:
Mesmer>Monk
Ranger>Elementalist
Necro>Warrior
Mesmer>Monk
Ranger>Elementalist
Necro>Warrior
CaptainGuru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by rotor
Actually it looks more like this ...
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Mesmer can easily down a elementalist with backfire, DoTs, diversion and interruption spells. And they can heal themselves. They have stances to counter damage from certain elementals.
Rangers are better than a warrior in usefulness, but a good necromancer will throw every condition back on him. He can also slowdown his attack rate and DoT him.
Monk can heal through spike damage of an elementalist's spell and the spike damage of a backfire from a mesmer.
Lastly, the Ranger will be too busy with the Monk to do anything against the Mesmer. The Mesmer will use diversion on the ranger and he'll lose all of his abilities within seconds. Now one on one, Cry of Frustration if the Ranger attempts to use Choking gas then Ineptitude, Energy Drain, Spirit Shackles, Etheral Burden, Illusionary weapon.
So as I said Mesmer > Monk > Elementalist > Necromancer > Ranger > Warrior
rotor
I agree with the order. Maybe for me change elementalist and necro.
I Thought you had placed the previous posters classes in order
I Thought you had placed the previous posters classes in order
King of Fools
whatever. i think people are too used to the traditional roles, healer, caster, tank. all of the professions can bring heals and self heals. monk primary is not needed if you have a group that actually takes 5min to discuss what skills to bring.
none
Quote:
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Originally Posted by King of Fools
whatever. i think people are too used to the traditional roles, healer, caster, tank. all of the professions can bring heals and self heals. monk primary is not needed if you have a group that actually takes 5min to discuss what skills to bring.
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btw, the opposition of classes ingame is different:
Ranger <=> Mesmer
Warrior <=> Elementalist
Necro <=> Monk
Thomasuwoo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo
Don't like monks eh? Bring quickening zepher, pred season and deabilitaing shot.
Oh but now the monks on YOUR team can't do anything? You just said they are too powerful.... |
Pic here
The skill and effects bar is blanked out as we plan to take a more powerful version of this team to the hall
CaptainGuru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo
Here's proof that you should change the topic to ban all ranger teams. Any all monk teams we fought were crushed in under 2 mintues.
Pic here The skill and effects bar is blanked out as we plan to take a more powerful version of this team to the hall |
I came up with a build not long ago.
4 x W/Me (Anti-caster)
Axe Mastery Rank: 11 Points: 16
Dismember
Axe Twist
Axe Rake
Disrupting Chop
Executioner's Strike
Inspiration Rank: 10 Points: 12
Energy Drain
Leech Signet
Energy Tap or Power Drain
Strength Rank: 10 Points: 12
*None
2x R/Mo (Healer)
Beast Mastery Rank: 10 Points: 12
Energizing Wind
Wilderness Survival Rank: 10 Points: 12
Greater Conflagration
Choking Gas
Healing Prayers Rank: 11 Points: 17
Dwayna of Kiss
Heal Party
Healing Speed
Word of Healing
Non-Linked Skill Attribute
Light of Dwayna
2x Me/Mo (Fake healer)
Fast Casting Rank: 11 Points: 16
None
*Invest in runes
Divine Favor Rank: -- Points: --
*Can’t contribute points to it.
Divine Boon – 25 health per spell cast.
Smiting Rank: 10 Points: 12
Zealot Fire- Every time, you force to remove a hex and a condition with a spell or signet, you deal 27-something damage to all enemies surrounding you.
Smite Hex – 40-something damage to near by foes whenever you remove a hex.
Protection Rank: 10 Points: 12
Mark of Protection – Gain 40 health per hit for 10 seconds + 25 from Divine Boon.
Mend Alignment – 40 + 25 Divine Boon (65)
Healing Rank: 0 Points: 0
Restore Life
Non-Linked Skill Attribute
Remove Hex.
Inspiration Magic Rank: 0 Points: 0
Mantra of flame – All damage is convert to fire damage within Conflagration and you reduce the damage done to you while gaining energy.
The Warriors of this team specialize in taking out any characters that use energy. (Rangers and spellcasters alike) The mesmers monks are fake healers and most team go after the spellcaster anyway. If any hex or condition is inflicted with Zealot fire on them, the surrounding opponents do damage. It's Kamikaze without the suicide. Lastly, the rangers will be healing and providing protection for the monks through GC.
If this went against your ranger team, they would get destroyed.
Thomasuwoo
Nice build. But I do belive our selection of skills would have been able to overcome it. Damn fine build though. Would be fun to pit it against ours and see what would happen.
Antonio Cappello
Quote:
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Originally Posted by rotor
Actually it looks more like this ...
ranger > elementalist > mesmer > monk > necro > warrior |
Heheh I love spike teams.
Thomasuwoo
I love them too. I love them because I know we are going to fight them every time we run the tombs. All it wakes is a Elementalist warder, A Ranger with natuers renewal and a few res sigs. My teams often get ganked by two air ele teams that realise they haven't got a chance against us and still win.
Dahl
Do not be stereotypical... Want to know why people think they can predict weaknesses and strengths in combat? Because insecure people follow other's builds. The monk allllllways fears getting ganged up on by the enemies because they take the most damage and deal the least back?.. Try me. As soon as a battle started 3 warriors rushed me, and began using their attacks on me (one was hammer, the other 2 were sword). Guess what? My health never dropped below 50% and while they were attacking me, the rest of my party went and destroyed the other casters and monks, and then came to finish off the warriors one-by-one that were so foolishly attacking me. Once in a blue moon a Warrior will wake up and realise "WOW, I'M NOT DOING ANY DAMAGE, LET'S CHANGE TARGETS!"
Moral of this story... CREATE YOUR OWN BUILDS!!! Every build has weaknesses and strengths, and though since some builds seem like they have the least weaknesses, you still need to use builds that have more. Being different is the key to victory. I don't remember how many times my seemingly strange party and strange use of skills for me laughed at... Until I stood on their broken skulls.
Experiment, experiment, experiment...
(ps. this was directed to arnansnow for his little... "class rock-paper-scissors chart"... good luck in PvP... The REAL PvP...)
Moral of this story... CREATE YOUR OWN BUILDS!!! Every build has weaknesses and strengths, and though since some builds seem like they have the least weaknesses, you still need to use builds that have more. Being different is the key to victory. I don't remember how many times my seemingly strange party and strange use of skills for me laughed at... Until I stood on their broken skulls.
Experiment, experiment, experiment...
(ps. this was directed to arnansnow for his little... "class rock-paper-scissors chart"... good luck in PvP... The REAL PvP...)
Thomasuwoo
Thank you Dahl. Hit the hammer right in the head there. Experimentation is the key. Work out with your team what you're likley to come up against in the upcoming battles and prepare. There are plenty of tactics and skiulls often overlooked becuase their uses aren't applicable in all situations. All dahl would have had to bring to save himself from the enemy wars would be heal area and maybe a few defesive skills suck as gladiators defese, shields stance or protections such as sheild of regeneration protective spirt or reversal of fortune.
But heal area heals the wars too! you shout? If the wars aren't being attacked who cares?
Think outside of the box people. Experament and discover combinations that not only benift you but the rest of the team as well.
But heal area heals the wars too! you shout? If the wars aren't being attacked who cares?
Think outside of the box people. Experament and discover combinations that not only benift you but the rest of the team as well.
Sholtar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by none
Who wants to start a petition to remove all the overpowered classes from Guild Wars? It's about time we all master the arts of the Gwen-class (happy dancing, never being attacked, and areaheal everyon now and then)
|
Wish Swiftdeath
title is win
EPO Bot
I wouldn't say monks are too strong. I say people that suck at the game need em too much.