Maxiemonster's -HUGE- Boon Prot guide!

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

06 Jun 2006 at 17:28 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

....the additional Enchantment effect....

Why would you want to maintain it? Why do you need another enchantment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Personally, I'm a big fan of Signet of Devotion. Inspired Hex won't work when you're getting Energy drained, which is the main reason I use that Signet. If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex.

chemmjr

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

06 Jun 2006 at 19:42 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex. .

I agree with you, that's why i believe edrain + Ihex + Drain ench, combined are much better e-management(s) compared to the others. Individually they may not be as efficient as MoR, however they help your team and yourself. Especially in RA and TA.

Of course dr ench is not spammable it is very useful:

1/4 health Wammo just cast healing hands (dr ench + edrain)
Sin just cast shadow whatever
Mesmer just cast IW (or echo)
Remove an attument from a ele or Me/ele

By all means im not trying to be a mesmer but during battles when most people are at 5-10 energy you can severly hinder their attacks or defenses by skillfully using the above skills

As an added bonus it forces you (by targeting them) to pay attention to what skills the other sides are using. i.e. perhaps your not the target of a migraine mesmer, but your ele is, the only way you would know is if your ele calls it or you insp hex it.

thus my bar

Guadrian, RoF, H. Veil, Insp Hex, Dr Ench, Mend Cond, Boon, E Drain

2 hex removal (+ e management)
1 ench removal (+ e management)
3 heals
1 e management

all team oriented

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

07 Jun 2006 at 02:57 - 83

@ Snipious

Holy veils additional enchantment effect means that it will synergise with contemplation of purity.

Maxie is right about inspired hex not helping when under energy denial.

Then you need to swap down to lowest set and use signet to heal while sitting at ZERO energy. That is one of the good things about the signet. The other good thing is the fact that its recharge and its decent heal for free are better over time that the energy gained from inspired hex.

Notice that Word of Healing is called energy management because of its efficiency which can approach 40 HP per energy point easily. Well the signet of devotion has an infinite efficiency and it is worth putting on your bar if one can.

@ Chemmjr

I think your build is not self sufficient eneogh for TA/RA and it lacks certain must have skills for GVG. Reason? In TA you will get ganked and hence you need to have quite a bit of self defence which your build doesnt have.

In RA/TA i would bring ailment and contemplation because you need to have some self defence there.

That said in GVG I wouldnt go anywhere w/o both prot spirit and spirit bond on each monk in your backline. (They carry one each of course)

Team orientated you may consider your build to be but you will get stomped on by memsers and then you will lose.

Drain enchantment plus energy drain puts extra strain on your resources of concentration and I wouldnt recomennd both in PVP. You have eneogh to do watching enemy movement and looking for improvised spikes w/o looking for targets to edrain and enchant drain at the same time. Choose one of them and if you must use drain enchant use mor instead.

Sam

BlueNovember

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTS GW2 items for Zkey

Mo/

07 Jun 2006 at 14:46 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Weapon set 1:

The Katana is obtained from the crafter Shichiroji, Pommel not included.
The Jeweled Chalice is obtained from the crafter Nago. I have a spare copy of that exact challice if anyone wants to buy it.
*Sold*

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

07 Jun 2006 at 15:02 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Holy veils additional enchantment effect means that it will synergise with contemplation of purity.

Okay that's what I thought, just wanted to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Then you need to swap down to lowest set and use signet to heal while sitting at ZERO energy. That is one of the good things about the signet. The other good thing is the fact that its recharge and its decent heal for free are better over time that the energy gained from inspired hex.
True enough... I hadn't thought of that.

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

07 Jun 2006 at 15:29 - 86

Inspired Hex was designed for anti-diversion measures. Holy Veil does have my salute though but Diversion, even with its updated nerf, can rip a monk in half if they have to heal/cast and what not.

Inspired serves as both extra energy and diversion of it gets shaved off in 20s.

Holy Veil can't do that, but at least it does the synergy as you said.

Wondering, if you use CoP with the proper enchantments, does Diversion take effect to shut it down for xx seconds?

chemmjr

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

07 Jun 2006 at 17:50 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

In RA/TA i would bring ailment and contemplation because you need to have some self defence there.

Sam

forgot my attributes but 44% guardian is sufficient when you heal for over 100 every cast, + knowing when the warrior(s) is going to unload on you to use Rof

And if you have so many conditions use them to your advantage, mend condition

One major problem for every monk are well timed KD(s) (by the team not just the thumpers, etc)

Quote: Originally Posted by pah01 @ Snipious

That said in GVG I wouldnt go anywhere w/o both prot spirit and spirit bond on each monk in your backline. (They carry one each of course)

Sam True in GVG i bring prot spirit and leave the enchantment removal to others
but in RA and TA I leave Prot spirit and bring Drain Enchament

Quote: Originally Posted by pah01 @ Snipious

Team orientated you may consider your build to be but you will get stomped on by memsers and then you will lose.

Sam Excellent edenial mesmers will always be a problem (those that wait untill your at 3 pips and then drain you)

But migraine/degen/interrupt mesmers usually are not. I usually precast veil (on myself and the wars) and wait until those really evil hexes are cast

Quote: Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious
Drain enchantment plus energy drain puts extra strain on your resources of concentration and I wouldnt recomennd both in PVP.
Sam As with anything else its does take some practice

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

You have eneogh to do watching enemy movement and looking for improvised spikes w/o looking for targets to edrain and enchant drain at the same time.

Sam That's why careful layout of your interface is so important and usually i edrain cycle targets then drain enchament while watching the health bars

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

@ Snipious

Choose one of them and if you must use drain enchant use mor instead.

Sam With the build above using mor at 2pips of energy regen (veil and boon) is not sufficient, in addition one thing i love to do with Drain Enchantment is wait until the other monk uses MoR

better yet you could use Insp Enchament and use their MoR

I guess I found a boon build that works for me that might not work for everyone

Thank you for your feed back

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

07 Jun 2006 at 22:40 - 88

Maxiemonster, you did not explain your reasons for weapon sets 1 and 2, and how you use them.
I've been playing the game since it came out, but I suck with a monk.. so I'm practically a noob when it comes to a monk. I dont understand why people use mesmer items for a boon prot and not the prot/divine weapons.
I'm assuming they are used to recharge the mantra of recall faster?? But doesnt all that switching just to get energy faster distract you from healing ppl?

Are there any better alternatives for sets 1 and 2?

Lurid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/

07 Jun 2006 at 23:48 - 89

I'm not sure about your first question.

I personally use:

Weapon - +5 Energy Katana w/ Enchant Mod
Offhand - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot

Weapon - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot Wand
Offhand - 20 / 20 Cast / Recharge for Prot

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

08 Jun 2006 at 04:19 - 90

I still say that you need mend ailment plus contemplation of purity for self defence.

You will get deep wounds and other conditions that you want to remove but they are not high eneogh on the priority that you want to contemplate them off. Cripple may be one of those conditions.

Contemplation of purity is not self defence against warriors but it is against a bumload of hexes which in RA can be quite powerful if you cant get them off you because you need to cast.

Backfire is one example. The simple counter to this is not casting or using signets or skills. However someone over there needs healing so you need some self removal before casting.

If you keep your veil precast alongside your boon it is actually blasphemous to not bring cop as it is so excellent alongside holy veil - if you dont precast the veil then cop is needed to cop of the backfire.

Now then there are a bunch of other hexes that mesmers and necros can cast on you and if your only defence is holy veil w/o cop I think you will find that good mesmers will make those hexes stick.

Of course this may not be your exp with RA/TA and to be honest most mesmers there are not that good but when you meet a good mesmer who knows what he is doing pre-cast veil is not going to be sufficient.

As for e-denial well thats just using focus swapping so thats not so relevant to your skill choices.

I still dont like the idea of having two skills for energy management that target the enemy. I think it may work for you but you still are gimping yourself.

The context I am arguing from in GVG and considering all things like positioning looking for targets to Drain - enchants may pull you out of position - draining warriors all the time wont net you the best energy gain so what will happen is you will be pulled out of position to drain mid line targets twice if at the same time then thats longer you spend out of position and you will get punished for being there.

Not only that but your attention is on the enemy team loking for enchants / targets to edrain which in the cycle is once every 25 secs and using those two skills effectivly may take say 5 seconds - so whats happening is 20% of your time is doing something secondary.

During this time watching party bars is not the best way to catch spikes that are improvised - while you are edraining a midline target you will get hammered to the floor. Really one skill targeting the enemy is eneogh.

Of course if you want to make the argument that you personally are a Godly monk in terms of attention levels and battle-field awareness but I think not considering you go into RA/TA w/o ailment and COP. You need at least one of those skills if you intend to survive alone against a good team.

As for interface well it helps but note there are things which you absolutely MUST be doing as a monk and doing things that hinder your abilty to do those things for too long will mean that you will get punished for them.

Sam

Tingi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/

08 Jun 2006 at 10:36 - 91

This is wat me, and most people i know use:

15 Divine Favor
11 Prot
10 Inspiration

Divine Boon
Mantra of Recall/Energy Drain {E}
Inspired Hex
Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Mend Condtion/Aielment

These 6 skills are wat i always hav on my skill list. The other 2 are preference:

Signet of Devotion
Contemplation of Purity
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Revealed Hex

Can be any 2 of these skills. Normally for GvG i run Sig of Devotion + Contemplation. (would usually use Prot Spirit but a rit does that job for me). But im thinking of taking out Contemplation and using Revealed Hex (same as Inspired Hex but factions double).

Dark Helmet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Texas - United States

Einherjar Legion [EL]

R/Rt

08 Jun 2006 at 13:22 - 92

Someone said Aegis is useless, and it is in PvP. But fighting lots of guys in PvE makes it awesome to take along. I also bring Distortion to FoW sometimes, when I'm getting whacked by a bunch of guys, and am low on energy. It recharges fast, and the penalty isn't bad when you're already drained. :P

And in a large group, Peace and Harmony can sometimes work to help with regen, instead of MoR.

Tensai

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

[IA]

Mo/Me

08 Jun 2006 at 17:21 - 93

hey tan, or anyone, how did you get your stats that high? i never know how many major/sup runes to run (though i try to run 0 sup runes...dont know if you're running multiple ones or whatnot)

with 1 major divine, 1 minor prot, 1 minor divine, and divine scalp im at:
Divine 15
Prot 10
Insp 9

Tingi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/

08 Jun 2006 at 17:31 - 94

i jst used a Sup Divine rune and minor Prot with divine scalp. Reduced divine favor to 15, so i hav 20 atrib points left over. Then put prot to 11 and ins to 10.

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

08 Jun 2006 at 18:50 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegasux

well I ran Gift of Health and wow nice little spike heal for only 7 in health. i like it and it may just stay in my build now.

In my opinion, people are giving up too much for Gift of Health. Reversal of Fortune heals for 71 Health at 13 Protection Prayers, and Gift of Health for 78 Health at 7 Healing Prayers (and it's also a 1/2 second longer casting time, and a 3 second longer skill recharge), and putting 7 in Healing Prayers also recuses your other attributes. In my opinion, this skill isn't really worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Why would you want to maintain it? Why do you need another enchantment?

You're not maintaining it. You can use it for casting it on yourself to get 3 hexes removed (Divine Boon, Mantra of Recall, Holy Veil, with possibly a Guardian), which is great when suffering alot of Hexes. Also, you can cast it on yourself when you see someone casting Hex like Diversion on you, to avoid triggering it (even though Inspired Hex isn't even effected by Diversion, which rocks).

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

If you are getting energy drained...then this isn't going to help you much. You cannot survive long, nor can your team on this skill alone. That's why I'd rather have another inspired/reveled hex. You might be stuck with 0 Energy for a while (or at least below 5 Energy), making it impossible for you to cast untill you get 5 Energy again, or your Mantra of Recall ends.

Quote: Originally Posted by chemmjr my bar

Guadrian, RoF, H. Veil, Insp Hex, Dr Ench, Mend Cond, Boon, E Drain As I'm always the one saying "Energy management is important!", you're overdoing it, 3 skill slots for Energy managment is just too much. This means you have no way to remove Dazed from yourself (as you're missing Contemplation of Purity), and don't have much to counter Energy denial (you don't have Signet of Devotion, and you can't use any of your Energy management skills without having Energy first).
Sorry, but this skill bar doesn't look that effective to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by chemmjr I usually precast veil (on myself and the wars) and wait until those really evil hexes are cast That's a bit too much. Precasting Holy Veil is nice when you respond to large casting time spells (hence you know who it's being cast on), but otherwise, precasting it isn't all that great.

Quote: Originally Posted by chemmjr Excellent edenial mesmers will always be a problem Of course, but excellent players will always be a problem, not just Energy denial Mesmers. Just because they will always be a problem, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to counter them, and at least try to make yourself more defensive against them.

Quote: Originally Posted by ibex333

Maxiemonster, you did not explain your reasons for weapon sets 1 and 2, and how you use them. Sorry, I had that in my guide a while back, but I guess I deleted it while editing by accident. I've edited it back in though, so I guess you should understand it now

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

Are there any better alternatives for sets 1 and 2? This is what seems most effective to me, I always try to advice the best

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

15 Divine Favor
11 Prot
10 Inspiration Most people run these attributes, but I really wonder why. Please explain why you wouldn't run the attributes I run, as I've tried to explain why it's better, and I really can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be better.
Even though I think of it now, that if Reversal of Fortune isn't triggered, or Guardian being useless, these stats might be better, but I guess I shouldn't be thinking of that, as I don't remember seeing that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

Can be any 2 of these skills. Normally for GvG i run Sig of Devotion + Contemplation. (would usually use Prot Spirit but a rit does that job for me). But im thinking of taking out Contemplation and using Revealed Hex (same as Inspired Hex but factions double). Switching out Contemplation of Purity means that you'll have to rely on the Hex/condition removal from your teammembers. So, never switch it out when splitting (one Monk on both sides), or when the Hex/condition removal isn't all that great (sine of course, the other Monk might be running a Hex/condition removal build, with Blessed Light for example).
I advice bringing at least one Protective Spirit when GvG'ing (if not two), but if a Ritualist takes over that job, that should be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

And in a large group, Peace and Harmony can sometimes work to help with regen, instead of MoR Depends. Peace and Harmony is pretty nice sometimes, as you can have it on 3 players, making that ~3 pips, compared to ~2 pips of Mantra of Recall, though, Contemplation of Purity ends your Energy management for a long time in some cases, you might not have 3 players to cast it on. I'm not a fan of Peace and Harmony though, so I wouldn't advice using it.

Oh, and I'd love some more responces to my attributes (13 Divine Favor, 13 Protection Prayers and 10 Inspiration Magic), as I still think it's great, but I still haven't had any opinions from others about it. Thanks

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

08 Jun 2006 at 19:01 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Yea as I played more with CoP, I caught on to that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

You might be stuck with 0 Energy for a while (or at least below 5 Energy), making it impossible for you to cast untill you get 5 Energy again, or your Mantra of Recall ends. I fell under edenial finally (I don't pvp with my monk often...) and you were right. Sig of Devotion works like a dream.

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

08 Jun 2006 at 19:37 - 97

I feel the trick to edenial is once you realize you are being targeted in this fashion immediately switch to your negative energy set. Someone needs a heal and you don't have any energy left with your negative set quickly switch to your regualr set cast a heal, and then switch back to negative energy set. TBH I am sure you could play this way 100% of the time to get into the mindset of being "energy secure".

IMHO -

As for your Attribute selections Maxie, I personally don't like putting sup runes on my monk. I don't feel the benefit you get from the extra heal justifies a lower health on your monk. The reason for this is simple, I don't feel as though the "e-mgnt" it offers (indirectly by higher heals) necessarily out weighs the need for my monk to be durable, and capable of withstanding harsh spikes. Plus I rarely run into emgnt problems. I try not to over cast I carry MoR/IH, and have 3 weapon sets that help me handle energy stressful situations.
All and all, the countless times not having dropped my health 75 has bailed me out is amazing.

Tensai

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

[IA]

Mo/Me

09 Jun 2006 at 02:08 - 98

question: my current build for my pvp boon prot monk is:

RoF, Guardian, Mend Condition, Holy Veil, CoP, Energy Drain, and Boon...that leaves 1 skill slot left but im torn between insp hex or signet of devotion...any reasons for which i should go with? thx

MoR is nice and i switch it for edrain sometimes (in which case my insp goes from 9 to 10 and prot up/down one as well to compensate)

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 04:38 - 99

@Tensai, it depends on your team build, but if you're playing in a balanced team, or another kind of team that has hex removal spread throughout the team, I'd actualy drop Holy Veil for Inspired Hex, and then take Signet of Devotion. Of course, in such a team I'd probably be running a blinder, or some other form of melee-hate, so I'd probably ditch Guardian for Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond too... But like I said, it really does depend a whole lot on where you're playing, weither it be RA, TA, or GvG, what you expect to be up against(mainly for RA there's always some new gimmick fad there), what the rest of your team is running, and if there are any plans on your team for say splitting, and what end of the split you'll be on.

If you could post what you're planning on doing with your boonprot, weither it be TA, RA, GvG, whatever, and what the general makeup of your team, people could probably help you better. Your bar is always going to feel tight, if only there were 9 or 10 skill slots

.

Just genericly though, if you were to only choose between Inspired Hex and Signet of Devotion without looking at the team application and the rest of your bar, Signet of Devotion hands down. It's absolutly great against pressure from say hex degen etc, and unlike Inspired Hex it doesn't depend on having a hex for the energy, although it doesn't remove a hex either. Plus it's useful against energy denial, and it's a free heal anytime you're strapped on energy, or the target doesn't need an urgent heal.

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 10:04 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

As for your Attribute selections Maxie, I personally don't like putting sup runes on my monk. I don't feel the benefit you get from the extra heal justifies a lower health on your monk. The reason for this is simple, I don't feel as though the "e-mgnt" it offers (indirectly by higher heals) necessarily out weighs the need for my monk to be durable, and capable of withstanding harsh spikes. Plus I rarely run into emgnt problems. I try not to over cast I carry MoR/IH, and have 3 weapon sets that help me handle energy stressful situations.
All and all, the countless times not having dropped my health 75 has bailed me out is amazing.

Yep, I guess you're right, I already stopped using that Superior rune, but forgot to change it. But besides the rune, what do you think of my attributes? As it's still not the usual attribute set up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tensai

RoF, Guardian, Mend Condition, Holy Veil, CoP, Energy Drain, and Boon...that leaves 1 skill slot left but im torn between insp hex or signet of devotion...any reasons for which i should go with? thx Signet of Devotion!

Yukito Kunisaki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2005

Chicago, IL

W/N

09 Jun 2006 at 14:33 - 101

Hmm, so nobody knows if Inspired Hex cancels the effect of Diversion huh?

[as in, it becomes the diverted hex for 20s. then turns back to a fully charged inspired Hex again]

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 14:35 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

Well considering that my point spread is 13 Divine 11 prot 10 insp

Identical to your selection, I'd have to say I approve. I posted a thread yesterday with the intent of fleshing out what attribute points spread would serve a boon prot monk (PvP) the best. Here is what I had to say on that point selection:

"I've experimented with using superior and non superior and presonally I have found this to be the best suited for me. I don't like dropping my health in the least by adding superior runes (or even major). Every ounce of health I can have on my Monk is necessary and needed. I've been on the recieving end of some terrible spikes that have left me with under 50 points of health, and I acredit not carrying a Superior rune in divne/or prot to making the difference and leading to my success. Meanwhile I can heal just fine, never seem to run out of energy even if I am facing an edenial mesmer, in which case I am living by my negative energy set; bottom line is the extra heal i get from a higher divine really doesn't seem to translate into energy mangement for me. I think a 10 in insp is a must for the energy returns you get on MoR and IH. I also feel that 11 prot is adequate, I think a ~40% on gaurdian does the job."

I hope that helps address your question. Also in 4v4 in never carry signet of devotion. I would take prot spirit in place of it. Just another thing for you to consider. I realize you like the heal it offers and the energy management, but the cast time, is just to unbearable for me. Too many interrupts, too many ppl targeting me. In GvG it is an entirely different story.

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 14:38 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Hmm, so nobody knows if Inspired Hex cancels the effect of Diversion huh?

[as in, it becomes the diverted hex for 20s. then turns back to a fully charged inspired Hex again] That's exactly what it does, and that is why it is uneffected by Diversion.

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 14:38 - 104

Inspired hex interacts in aweird way with diversion.

If you use inspired hex w/o managing to inspire a hex - while diversion is on you diversion will actually affect the cooldown of inspired hex.

However if you inspire a hex other than diversion while diversion affects the cooldown of the hex you inspired and after 20 seconds you will get inspired hex back as normal.

If you try to inspire diversion of of yourself than diversion will effect the cooldown of inspired hex.

Sam

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 14:42 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

I hope that helps address your question. Also in 4v4 in never carry signet of devotion. I would take prot spirit in place of it. Just another thing for you to consider. I realize you like the heal it offers and the energy management, but the cast time, is just to unbearable for me. Too many interrupts, too many ppl targeting me. In GvG it is an entirely different story. In 4v4 I would recomend the opposite - not to bring protective spirit. It really is not needed in a 4v4 situation. Signet of devotion is more than adequate for 4v4. I would hazard to say that is almost required in GVG when energy management and being abale to heal under energy denial and under pressure are important.

Then again Monks already have a vicious fight to get a decent skillbar - However at least one of your monks should be taking the signet into GVG. Otehrwise you wont be able to cope with pressure at all.

Sam

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 15:04 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

If you try to inspire diversion of of yourself than diversion will effect the cooldown of inspired hex.

I never knew that.. Thanks

And like pah said, I'd always take Signet of Devotion to RA/TA, as it's great there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender06

Well considering that my point spread is 13 Divine 11 prot 10 insp... Yay, someone who agrees!

Thanks.

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 15:35 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

In 4v4 I would recomend the opposite - not to bring protective spirit. It really is not needed in a 4v4 situation. Signet of devotion is more than adequate for 4v4. I would hazard to say that is almost required in GVG when energy management and being abale to heal under energy denial and under pressure are important.

Then again Monks already have a vicious fight to get a decent skillbar - However at least one of your monks should be taking the signet into GVG. Otehrwise you wont be able to cope with pressure at all.

Sam As I stated I agree with the GvG scenario. But in a 4v4 scenario I have to disagree. Allow me to elaborate:

When I am pressured by say KD warrior/and another heavy hitting attack type, sig of devotion won't stand a chance of any use, meanwhile not only can I get off a prot spirit, it will also be long lasting that usually translates into e-management not to mention keeping me alive. If I notice a spike in effect, (non necro) Prot Spirit instantly can save the person from the spike, and once again help with e-mangement.

I find as a monk in a 4v4 build there is always dmg pressuree that I am facing and the cast time of Sig Devotion makes it a wasted skill on my skill bar.

Now if you are including it for times when you are facing edenial pressure, or diversion pressure, etc, I still think working off of my negative energy set is far superior to placing signet of devotion on my skill bar. Especially when I will often be faced with the dual scenario where edenial is in effect and i am getting bombarded with dmg. Prot spirit FTW in my oppinion. Sig of Devotion just loses its effectiveness with a slow cast time in the face of a spike or constant KD's and interrupts-- I just don't get to use it.

Now this is simply my experience with including signet of devotion on my skill bar, perhaps you and others who like it have had better experiences with it.

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

09 Jun 2006 at 20:31 - 108

Well my experience in 4v4 a booned reversal will save all spikes there. Even ones with kd chain in. Gaurdian is more than sufficient to save you from a single hammer or thumper and if they have more you fear pressure more than spikes.

When you fear pressure you need something efficient hence signet of devotion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender

Now if you are including it for times when you are facing edenial pressure, or diversion pressure, etc, I still think working off of my negative energy set is far superior to placing signet of devotion on my skill bar. I include signet of devotion for working under e-denial, for efficiently dealing with pressure - Its efficiency is infinte BTW - It is too good to not bring in 4v4.

Working into your reserves when you dont have to is simply a bad attitude and you will get punished for doing that by good teams.
Sam

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

09 Jun 2006 at 21:20 - 109

^ Since I use my Monk in PvE as well, what's a nifty spell to switch Sig of Devotion out for when I play missions/Quests? E denial isn't too common amongst the random mobs.

Maxiemonster

There is no spoon.

Join Date: Jun 2005

Netherlands

Mo/

10 Jun 2006 at 01:13 - 110

Switch out Protective Spirit for Signet of Devotion in PvE. Those bosses really know how to spike, and 10% of someone's Health isn't 300 damage most of the times, which I've seen Elementalist bosses deal.

Kareem

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Minnesota

Guildless & Looking

12 Jun 2006 at 06:27 - 111

Any alternatives to the weapon sets you have listed above? Would any of the pvp only weapons available when creating a pvp character suffice?

Zui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/

12 Jun 2006 at 08:30 - 112

If you're going for PvP-only boonprot, and don't plan to buy any extra items for use I'd go with a "normal" energy set, +5 sword/axe and +12 focus(mods depend on pereference), a staff(20/20 prot), wand and a +12 focus(mods depend on pereference), are the common setups for this that you'll see, and a - energy set, use a -5 sword/axe and a +45 -2 enchanted shield.

That's probably the best you can get from just rolling a PvP in terms of weapons.

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

12 Jun 2006 at 13:59 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

That's exactly what it does, and that is why it is uneffected by Diversion. Just to clear this up;

Diversion lands on you, and you use Inspired Hex to take it off. Inspired Hex will be Diverted.

Diversion lands on you, and then some other hex. You use Inspired Hex take off the second hex, Diversion also ends because it has been triggered by the use of a skill. Inspired Hex is not Diverted.

Diversion lands on you, and you use Inspired Hex to take a hex off someone else. Diversion also ends because it has been triggered by the use of a skill. Inspired Hex is not Diverted.

So basicly; you can use Inspired to take off any hex other than the Diversion it's self, and you will cause it to end without the negative effect.

Forry Fisher

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2006

Carson

guildless

A/W

12 Jun 2006 at 14:59 - 114

I use exactly the same build, sig of devotion is a blessing when fighting heavy degen teams in TA. but because of that heavy degen encounter, i swapped it for channeling.. i remember having malaise, wither, lifesiphon, poison, deep wound, cripple and on top of that an annoying edenial mesmer! oh and did i forget to mention they had a blackout ranger/mesmer?

I was never the same person after that

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

12 Jun 2006 at 17:39 - 115

@JR & Pah01: thank you for giving a detailed and concise description of IH's effectiveness with Diversion. I Actually had a match the other day where IH'd diversion off of a teammate, and since we were in the cleaning up stage of the match i decided to cast it on the Mesmer, knowing it was a waste of my energy. The mesmer with FC casted diversion on me before I got mine off. Was an amusing turn of events as my diversion was diversion'd.

@Pah01: Perhaps I was a little too vague when I said switching to my negative energy set, what I meant by that was my hidden weapon set (effectively taking my energy from 47 to 25 SEE note at bottom). If you still think that is an inefficent/ or ineffective way to handle edenial, so be it. As for your championing of Signet of Devotion in 4v4 matches so be it, I disagree. I don't think this somehow means I have a "bad attitude". Attitude has nothing to do with this conversation. As I stated several times now, I find Signet of Devotion to be ineffective against good teams. And against poor teams, I never have e-problems so there really is no need for Signet of Devotion. You consider Prot Spirit to be a waste. I disagree. I'm recieving 100+pts of dmg in a series of non stop attacks, and prot cuts that in half. That to me translates into survival and e management. You've never faced the scenario I am describing? The I would wager you probably play on more effective teams than I. Regardless, I have found Prot Spirit to be a must in my build. And a worthy option for those who are reading this thread.

*Note: I carry 3 weapon sets:
1) Normal one gives 47 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) normal use.
2) Hidden one gives 25 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) used when facing edenial.
3) High one gives 62 energy (+2 e regen with boon on) used in emergencies.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

12 Jun 2006 at 17:53 - 116

^^ What is the normal attribute spread, (the one different than maxie's).

Is it 15 Divine Favor, 9 protection, and 10 inspiration?

Tensai

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

[IA]

Mo/Me

12 Jun 2006 at 18:27 - 117

hm, i dont like using any sup or major runes, and my attribute spread atm is:
Divine: 14 (12+1+1)
Protection: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration: 9

i use energy drain btw instead of MoR. i suppose you COULD take 1 point from prot and put it into divine but iunno...

pah01

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

Liverpool

Mo/

12 Jun 2006 at 22:16 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

@Pah01: Perhaps I was a little too vague when I said switching to my negative energy set, what I meant by that was my hidden weapon set (effectively taking my energy from 47 to 25 SEE note at bottom). If you still think that is an inefficent/ or ineffective way to handle edenial, so be it. As for your championing of Signet of Devotion in 4v4 matches so be it, I disagree. I don't think this somehow means I have a "bad attitude". Attitude has nothing to do with this conversation. As I stated several times now, I find Signet of Devotion to be ineffective against good teams. And against poor teams, I never have e-problems so there really is no need for Signet of Devotion. You consider Prot Spirit to be a waste. I disagree. I'm recieving 100+pts of dmg in a series of non stop attacks, and prot cuts that in half. That to me translates into survival and e management. You've never faced the scenario I am describing? The I would wager you probably play on more effective teams than I. Regardless, I have found Prot Spirit to be a must in my build. And a worthy option for those who are reading this thread.

*Note: I carry 3 weapon sets:
1) Normal one gives 47 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) normal use.
2) Hidden one gives 25 energy (+3 e regen with boon on) used when facing edenial.
3) High one gives 62 energy (+2 e regen with boon on) used in emergencies.

Right back at you

Ok I think I may not have been clear about why I think there is a need for the signet of devotion in a 4v4 match. I am going to relate a TA build to a GVG one mainly because I hope you will see exactly where I am coming from.

In a GVG build chances are your build will contain most if not all of these things.
Ether prodigy powered heal party Fast Cast Remove Hex Blood Ritual, maybe even BIP. Draw conditions on a */mo. (sometimes now an extinguish)
This is all the support you receive along with the fact that you are not alone and considering that fatal damage can come instantly there are a number of skills that must be on your bar if you want to even call yourself monk.

Your job is to heal pressure and to save against spikes and your team is providing all the support you can get. Eles will blind warriors hopefullyjust before they try and knockdown, your mesmers will hopefully blackout the ranger who is wandering in to blackout you and so on and so forth.

It is also common knowledge that boon prots are very weak against pressure. They run out of energy much easier than other kinds of monks and spend much more energy.

Transfer all this to 4v4.

Well chances are the support you are getting is minimal. Commonly you will see teams with just one secondary monk in the team and he/she will probably be drawing the blinds of your warrior or thumper.

You are now going to be forced into healing all the pressure that gets exerted on you.

The situation you described - getting beat on in a series of attacks dealing 100+ damage and you need prot spirit to negate it. Well I have found that when I speced to defeat such situations in 4v4 I didnt have the energy to cope for very long. Degen and simple thumper pressure just wore you down.
I have found that the reduction in numbers made just bringing reversal and gaurdian was sufficient.

What I found over a period was simply that the signet of devotion allowed me as a monk to cope with that pressure much better than before and by dropping the prot spirit - booned reversal was more than eneogh to save a team member from attempted spikes because it is only 3 damagers in general, and just like in GVG if you are the target - pre kiting and your TEAM's (other monk plus defensive characters) response which saves you.

As for working under e-denial, well the enemy has got better. They will now surge/burn you when you are casting and catch you in your normal set. Having a negative set is not the only answer now.

My justifications for signet of devotion regarding e-denial is the fact that you can do something at zero energy while in your negative set. However this is not so common in TA - edenial so my argument just rests on eficiency and coping with the pressure that some teams can dish out.

Anyway considering the new classes - especially the assasin whose attacks are not reduced that much at al by protective spirit I just dont feel that Prot Spirit can fit on your bar in 4v4. If you must bring it then IMO you probably want to force your blinder or whatever to carry a heal other or have a blood rit there for you because otherwise you wil find that not having a free infinitly efficient heal will hurt.

Sam

ender6

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mo/

13 Jun 2006 at 14:21 - 119

@Pah01 -- I appreciate your detailed explanations, very clear. I think the biggest difference between our two scenarios is that I am currently between guilds and find myself in PUG teams, which expect the monk to take care of everything. I think if I had the proper support on my team, I would go with Signet of Devotion and drop Prot Spirit. Heck even after hearing your detailed analysis I might do it. There have been times when I have been completely sapped of energy and wished I had signet of Devotion. Still not sure if I want to take PS off of my skill bar, but I do appreciate the detailed explanation.

The latest problem I have been encountering in TA isn't edenial, but rather skill usage denial. I've been facing teams with a KD/Blackout combo mesmer. Literally I have been on my ass or blacked out to the extent that I get to cast one spell in ~15 sec intervals. Just plain silly. So Prot Spirit here is far more effective. In addition, I have to rely on my teammates to carry the match since I have been effectively neutralized. Any thoughts on how to counter this one? That's the problem with being a boon prot monk, tough to adjust your skill bar to account for situatial occurences without weakening the effectiveness of your skillbar in general.

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

13 Jun 2006 at 18:21 - 120

^ I'm having trouble getting around blackout, too. I usually just turn tail and run when I see it coming from across the map. But in the heat of things, its sometime shard to avoid.