What bit of "zu Heitzer" is Oriental? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

generik

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 May 2006 at 22:55 - 1

As a ethnic chinese I found the names of the Luxon and Kurzick NPCs somewhat intriguing.. considering they are all natives of Cantha which seems like a imperial japan/ancient china kind of society.

Is it just me? Or does the Kurzicks seem to be of german origin? I'm pretty sure there is no family name in any asian culture that sounds remotely like "Heitzer", although I can't say the same for "Zu". Likewise the Luxons, don't they seem greek? For instance Elder Rhea (Rhea is the name of a greek goddess apparently) and more tellingly the Spear of Archimodes, if that's not some greeky name I have no idea what it is.

So what the hell are the greeks and the germans doing in Cantha?!

Viruzzz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

23 May 2006 at 23:06 - 2

first of all. its Heltzer, not Heitzer

and yes they seem german themed.
i have absolutely no proof of this, but this whole faction battle looks alot like WWII, Luxon sounds spanish/italian/french while kurzick sounds german/russian, looks at the names of NPC's around the towns, not only the important ones. the merchants too

lg5000

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

23 May 2006 at 23:23 - 3

The bit where you just called it 'to heater'

They're gothic-themed as can be seen by their cathetral style buildings. The german thing... while most names seemed to be german, there seems to be a bit of russian involved. I don't speak russian, so don't quote me on that.

As for the towns, 'Brauer' is certainly a nice one, pitty the beer seems to be missing

*edit: German nobility would have been called 'Von Heltzer' not 'Zu Heltzer' Von being from and Zu being to.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

23 May 2006 at 23:42 - 4

House of Heltzer is Gothic themed, no doubt of it. According to the manual the House of Heltzer traces its ancestry to the great houses of Cantha and beyond. With locations like The Academy and Conservatory, it's a shame it's not the House Zu Mozart! The Kurzicks, although still human, seem close to being wood elves with their music magic and human-tree juggernauts.

Wyrmdog

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Me

23 May 2006 at 23:49 - 5

It was a bit jarring to me as well, when I first noticed. That said, it's fantasy and they avoid a lot of real world issues by mixing and matching cultures for effect.

While I'd have preferred something a bit more solidly Asian, I would bet it was done in part to ensure that people coming in blind could find at least some portion that was mildly familiar to them. The covergirls don't exactly look Asian and it's possible they didn't want people to open it up and go, "WTF?" when they thought they were getting something more generic from the game.

Anyway, just food for thought.

chrislee149

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

W/Mo

23 May 2006 at 23:51 - 6

Well, Cantha is an Asian-based environment. Meaning that (what I got from that, at least) that many of the areas are based off of Asian environments. I don't believe that Cantha is completely Asian. I certainly, as a Chinese myself, like that it is not purely Asian environments. I personally think that area names like House zu Heltzer and Archipalego are awesome, as are the Kurzicks and Luxons themselves, who certainly don't look Asian. I agree that I definately feel the Kurzicks as German/Russian-ish and the Luxons as Greek/Roman-ish, though as I have said, they are completely different from anything in the real world. IMO, nothing in these culture-based Guild Wars games can be expected to be complete counterparts to comparable real life things. That being said, I can't wait for a full fledged Greco-Roman Guild Wars game.

EDIT: Wyrmdog beat me to it. o_O

Cador

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Relax Its Just A [GAME]

R/E

23 May 2006 at 23:57 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

As a ethnic chinese I found the names of the Luxon and Kurzick NPCs somewhat intriguing.. considering they are all natives of Cantha which seems like a imperial japan/ancient china kind of society.

Is it just me? Or does the Kurzicks seem to be of german origin? I'm pretty sure there is no family name in any asian culture that sounds remotely like "Heitzer", although I can't say the same for "Zu". Likewise the Luxons, don't they seem greek? For instance Elder Rhea (Rhea is the name of a greek goddess apparently) and more tellingly the Spear of Archimodes, if that's not some greeky name I have no idea what it is.

So what the hell are the greeks and the germans doing in Cantha?!

Imperialism , Otto von Bismark FTW

Symbol

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

24 May 2006 at 00:13 - 8

The Kurzicks and Luxons are vassal states of Cantha. That means there's no reason that they have to share the same culture.

Cjlr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

SMS

E/Me

24 May 2006 at 00:17 - 9

Symbol's got it.

Cantha, the continent, is not Cantha, the nation. The Dragon Empire, I believe it is called, nominally controls all of the continent. It, obviously, has quite the far-eastern theme to it.

The Kurzicks and Luxons are as different from the Canthans as the Orrians and Krytans were from Ascalons.

Mr_T_bot

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

24 May 2006 at 01:49 - 10

The Kurzicks definately strike me as German between the names and structures. I'm not sure what the Luxons are. Possibly South Pacific.

Mandy Memory

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

USA

Xen of Sigils [XoO]

W/

24 May 2006 at 02:19 - 11

The luxons seem very greek to me.

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

24 May 2006 at 02:31 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy Memory

The luxons seem very greek to me.

That's correct. Most of the luxon npc have pretty greek sounding names.

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

24 May 2006 at 02:34 - 13

what's funny is that a member of my guild's alliance summed up the Kurzicks quite nicely: facist theocraticians. if you look at the game that way, i guess you could call the Luxons somewhat communist...

but more on-topic, the manual said that the Luxons and Kurzicks are vassal states of the Canthan empire, and were allowed to develop separate sub-cultures. so, they were allowed to develop the way they wanted to without Canthan intervention, i guess.

Sanji

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

24 May 2006 at 03:38 - 14

Just because Cantha has a Chinese/Japanese theme doesn't mean that the rest of Cantha is required to have a homogeneous society.

mtm

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Portugal & Greece

W/

24 May 2006 at 04:28 - 15

Luxons have several names/places that are or try to sound greek.
Archipelagos is a greek word, for example.

However there are some references on the Kurzick side too.

Arkis

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

24 May 2006 at 05:04 - 16

I think it's a blended culture really.

Kurzicks are german mixed with asian influences. Well mainly from final fantasy games you get the sense of "gasp".. pertrified forest. Then a lot of them really look geisha looking to me =P. Espeically Danika. Maybe dark Geisha-style with germanic architecture.

The luxons are moreso as you guys have been saying greek. But if you go to their towns, they all have oriental lanterns and stuff. Plus in Cavalon if you look at how their traders are set up, they're like little "stands." The whole idea of the nomad-life style makes them more "mongol" to me. They're moreso mongol-esk with a bit of greek influence and history.

If you watch the trailer again where both leaders fight against Shiro, you can really see that they're both very asian looking. Well the Kurzick guy seems kinda undead lol but yeah.

A_Muppet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

24 May 2006 at 05:40 - 17

On a useless note, the loading sceen for the areas on the Sing Jea Island (Prelude island if I got the name wrong) is actually concept art for Ascalon;they toyed with alot of styles for Ascalon in chapter 1 before they went for a western look.

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

24 May 2006 at 05:55 - 18

The hairstyles, makeup, and such of the Kurzicks are surprisingly Japanese in attitude, even if they don't simply copy the exact same visual look (which would be extremely lame). Even the "goth" clothing reminds me of a particular type of (Feudal) Japanese chic called "ikki".

I'm not sure why things in fantasy worlds NEED to be duplicates of real-world things that can be easily categorized. Would that really be better? I sure don't think so.

What I'd REALLY like to know, though, is why Kurzicks are "Fascist", just because they have Germanic/Russian names. There isn't a single Fascist thing about their culture, in reality. I'm actually fascinated by how hard it seems to be for people to look past the names and black clothes. It's an interesting social experiment, I think.

fas·cism
n.
1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator (Kurzicks are led by house leaders in a system far closer to Feudalism.), stringent socioeconomic controls (Kurzicks, while very religious and traditionalist, are, again, closer to a Feudal society than a Fascist one, in this regard.), suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship (Kurzicks value creativity and artistic expression, which are the exact opposite of censorship.), and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. (While they certainly tend to hate Luxons, they are honestly not the aggressors. Even with this obvious emnity, Kurzicks still hope for peace, and are interested in the ways and culture of the Luxons. The attitude is hardly racist.)

Feminist Terrorist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Oh Noes! The 'burbs!

24 May 2006 at 08:42 - 19

I noticed that about the Kurzicks in the FPE and wondered about it. I've since gotten over it, and just wish that it wasn't so bloody dark in there. I can never see where I'm going!

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

24 May 2006 at 11:23 - 20

If it's Asian themed continent, it doesn't mean everything has to be ripped from Chinese/Japanese/Indian etc. lores ^_^

Theme is more like inspiration for developers.

Willy Rockwell

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

24 May 2006 at 12:46 - 21

There's plenty of European influence in Asia, from French in IndoChina to German in China. Portugese were in Japan in 1600. Take your pick, it's easy to justify a German house in an Asian land.

michaeldt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

24 May 2006 at 12:56 - 22

Cantha in GW /= China or Japan in the real world. They can do what they like regarding names.

jonnybegood

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

huh?

The Final Exodus[FX]

24 May 2006 at 14:14 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

As a ethnic chinese I found the names of the Luxon and Kurzick NPCs somewhat intriguing.. considering they are all natives of Cantha which seems like a imperial japan/ancient china kind of society.

Is it just me? Or does the Kurzicks seem to be of german origin? I'm pretty sure there is no family name in any asian culture that sounds remotely like "Heitzer", although I can't say the same for "Zu". Likewise the Luxons, don't they seem greek? For instance Elder Rhea (Rhea is the name of a greek goddess apparently) and more tellingly the Spear of Archimodes, if that's not some greeky name I have no idea what it is.

So what the hell are the greeks and the germans doing in Cantha?!

It is saposed to look like a western Russian Orthodox theme IMO(Btw my family is from that area of asia and i like that touch alot TY A-net), and in that the did a wonderful job in creating the House, I dont think I could have imagined it as beutiful. others might disagree but that does not change the fact that it is western asian/estern russian and that it makes me enjoy it so much.

Also they are the developers of the game, they can add, take away, and distribute what they want. If you make the game then you can put pink dandilions(sp?) and other trinkets , or you can make it asian or any other theme u would need.

jciardha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

International Districts

The Labyrinth of Night [LoN]

Me/

24 May 2006 at 16:48 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Is it just me? Or does the Kurzicks seem to be of german origin? I'm pretty sure there is no family name in any asian culture that sounds remotely like "Heitzer", although I can't say the same for "Zu".

"Zu" is another definite article indicating German noblitity, much like "Von."

I am also ethnic Chinese. The Kurzicks and Luxons, culturally, have nothing to do with Chinese or Japanese culture. The Kurzicks easily fit into the feudal culture of Medieval Europe, well enough, and the Luxons are a mishmash of various nomadic tribes found in the real world.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

24 May 2006 at 16:48 - 25

Even in real life we have some similiarities (not the exact ones, but similarities nonetheless). Not everyone within the borders of the Roman Empire was even Roman, much less racially homogenous. The same went for the Greek Empire under Alexander, which including many lands as well. Even the Mongolians and Huns had branched out into far away lands. There's no reason that the Kaineng culture can't have control over the other cultures. Besides, just because Germans and Greeks were far away from the orient here doesn't mean in some alternate version they couldn't have intertwined somehow. The terrain that they live in also makes a big difference. The Luxons were mostly seafaring and the Kurzicks were mostly tree huggers (elf-like as someone pointed out).

My suggestion: do something to shutdown your logical side for a while. your creative side will thank you for it.. :-)

the heal0r

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

germany

[CG]

N/Me

25 May 2006 at 23:49 - 26

Quote:

German nobility would have been called 'Von Heltzer' not 'Zu Heltzer' Von being from and Zu being to.

most german nobles are named after the region or city they are from like "von bayern" or "von baden".the word "zu" was mostly used as an addition when the family moved or got new property.so members of the family "von bayern" living in a castle named "waldburg" would have called themselves "von bayern zu waldburg".its very common that both von and zu appear in combination as well as solo.

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

01 Jun 2006 at 05:11 - 27

even more Greek-ness in the Luxon culture: Elder Rhea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhea_%28mythology%29

too much to summarize there, but it has something to do with Rhea being a Titaness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhea_Silvia

Here, it says that Rhea was the mother of Romulus and Remus, who founded Rome. or, more like, Romulus killed his brother and then founded Rome.

Thom

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2005

01 Jun 2006 at 06:36 - 28

I feel it is a Star Wars thing. Make a bunch of drastically different environments to keep the fantasy interesting. Lends to the whole epic feel. I would enjoy a game where differences between areas existed but were more subtle.

floppinghog

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

pit of brimstone

Squad Six Six Six [ssss]

A/Me

01 Jun 2006 at 07:19 - 29

anet was showing us the path way, they go asian, then russian to german, to greek, to now they gonna go northern africa.. so from greece they are ALSO going over a body of water and will be arriving in egypt!! the tombs of the kings and the pyramids await thee!!

floppinghog

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

pit of brimstone

Squad Six Six Six [ssss]

A/Me

01 Jun 2006 at 07:22 - 30

oh and u know what for the record - i predict there will be pharow armor. i got a feeling!!

Misa

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right next to the armor crafter.

Mo/

01 Jun 2006 at 15:08 - 31

I believe the oriental feeling in HzH is the NPCs' hairdos

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

01 Jun 2006 at 15:16 - 32

Remember, they said Asian themed not Asian. There's definitely an Asian flavor in Cantha, especially the city area. The Luxon and Kurzicks, however, are unique and a combination of various flavors of cultures. To flat out compare them to historic cultures on a one to one comparison is like comparing apples and crepes.