Utter speculation, probably incorrect theory - The Balthazar temple in The Falls

Most of you are probably aware of what appears to be a temple of Balthazar in The Falls, one of the most out of the way places in Tyria.

I took a trip to that temple for the first time today, and immediately started theorizing who or what could have built it. The temple is overgrown with large plants, so its obviously very old. What could have been around so long ago to build it?

The following (of what I believe to have existed when it was built) I have discluded-

• Giants - They would have made the temple alot bigger for sure, and there is no sign of Giant skeletons anywhere
• Mursaat - It would more than likely be made of Mursaat Jade
• Druids - I can't see them building anything, and if they did it would probably be a statue of Melandru
• Dragons - Again, the temple would have been bigger
• Centaur - Same as with the druids, I expect they wouldnt build structures, and I doubt their god would be Balthazar. I don't even know if they existed there when it would have been built.

I highly doubt it was humans, the structure is made of an almost metallic stone, very shiny (can't remember where I've seen it before). I doubt this is the craftsmanship of humans.

This has left me with 2 remaining ideas-

• Forgotten - This one I am less convinced of. As far as I know, they haven't left the desert before. I might be wrong, but even then its on the complete opposite side of Tyria.
• Seer - See below

I am fairly convinced that it was the Seer. We know very little about them, so there is no way of saying they couldn't have. Then, I noticed this on the ramp leading into the temple. (link due to image resolution)

If anybody knows the race who would have constructed that symbol, please tell me right away. I first thought the eye was reminicent of the symbol used for mesmers, but then the statue would be of Lyssa. I also wondered if it could be a Wind Rider, but that I doubt too.
This leaves Seers in the list in my head, the temple itself is reminiscent of their looks.

The following is probably the biggest speculation, and most likely to be incorrect idea in my theory- Balthazar is a seer, or at least originated from wherever the Seer come from. I don't know an awful lot about the lore on Balthazar, so if anyone has evidence to prove that wrong immediately, please do. What first struck me is how both Balthazar and the Seer always have their arms in a sort of folded position, Balthazars on his sword. The extra set of arms? Those could easily be under his cape, which is the other thing they share in common. For his head.. Well, that is what makes me think it is probably incorrect.

The other thing that supports the Seer theory, is one of the few things we actually know about them - They are at war with the Mursaat. Worshipping Balthazar, being the god of war, would be enough reason for them to see the need to battle, though the gap in this is we don't know why they are at war with them, or which side is attacking the other.

This theory is incredibly speculous, so if anybody has anything that can prove this wrong, or another peoples who could have built the templte, it is just as welcome as evidence to support the theory

I think, Though i may be mistaken, but that is the same symbol and section of ground as in HA when you fight the zaishen

Yea,but alot of the textures you see in GW are repeated to save time in the development process.

That symbol and structure is also the same in the Underworld near that castle type thing at the end of a smite run.

The Titans...wait...that was from WarCraft...

Perhaps the Ancient Kings? Like in Crystal Desert?

Maybe an forgotten/destroyed gateway to HoH? Just like Tomb of Primal Kings?

Ah...just came to me...The Zaishen Order? Because the structural design looks like HA...

The Zaishen Order are from Cantha and Cantha opened trade with Tyria in 221 AE,but was their organization in existence then? If so then why would they go that deep into the Maguuma Jungle?

Questions create the need for answers and yet these answers open wide a whole new array of questions. Indeed this is quite interesting.

Also,that temple was there before the Battle Isles were in existence in the game and same goes for the Zaishen Order.Therefore that sort of removes the possibility of them creating that temple.

Hm...do the Factions Manuscripts have a timeline and if so does it tell when the Zaishen Order was formed?

I just looked through my copy of the Factions timeline in the manuscript, and the Zaishen aren't mentioned once, so they remain a mystery. Though you are right about when Cantha started trading with Tyria, there is this -

So although they only started trading in 221AE, there was other contact before that. Although the links we have between Tyria and Cantha only state two locations, Ascalon and (if we assume that is where the trade takes place) Lion's Arch, so why they would go so deep into the Maguuma Jungle would puzzle me.

Ancient Kings? I don't know much about them unfortunately, so I can't say yes or no to that, but the makeup seems significantly different to that of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings, if that is what you are talking about.

I think its just an abondoned Krytan Temple, perhaps from the times when the druids existed, and the jungle was more peacefull. The temple was of course used by normal krytans, not the druids

My guess is (in short)that the aggresive monsters are New: before the seering -people could wander quite peacefully to that temple (even though it may not been in use for several hundreds of years) and to many other places.

After all, all over the place npcs remark that the world have been over run with monsters, and things that was peacefull now isnt. Not only in Ascalon but all over the world.

This would explain the various houses in the jungle (that doesnt seem kentaur friendly) and the "stranded" low lvl npc collectors& merchants in dangerous areas. not to mention the nice maintained macadam roads. There also are some White mantle wagons near that place, btw so it seems it is or at least was (until recently) a traveled road.

That symbol - it is an eye. I believe this has been discussed elsewhere, possibly on GWOnline, but that may be the Eye of Janthir, in which case we get indications of the White Mantle and the Mursaat. However, that confuses the whole thing because neither the Mantle nor the Mursaat worship Balthazaar!

This links to the whole discussion that has gone on at GWOnline for a while about the Mursaat, Seer and Forgotten/Enchanted in the desert all being linked back to the same race of Forgotten, which in turn split. Perhaps the Mursaat were Forgotten who ascended, while the Seer may have moved into a separate area from the others. This would mean they could have worshipped Balthazaar, perhaps. The other Forgotten's remnants are seen in the desert. A very large, tangled complex of stories, roots and evidence.

I may start a thread on such things, though a lot of it has been beaten out over on GWOnline before - we at GWG may be able to draw our own, different conclusions, however.

I really think is the forgotten.

Sym i have to disagree with you on this one....
The eye of Janthir excists a lot longer then you would think.
The mursaat however are recent pests that overtook the religion of the white mantle so it could be that the white mantle did build the temple but before the mursaat took control of them.

(seems more logical ey)

Or possibly.. just thinking out loud here; it was something thrown in by Anet artists to look cool and take up some space?

Seriously, you can think TOO deep sometimes.

That was a little snappy.

Yes yes but that makes things like these fun JR-
(i am staying with the white mantle thingy the eye of janthir is older then you think!)

Even if it was due to some lazy artist, the fact that it is in the guild wars "world" -makes it fair game to speculate how that odd piece would fit with other pieces.

A speculation which resulkt could spark the inspiration of others, and make the guild wars world seem more whole

Saul D'allesio founded the white mantle around the time of the searing correct? Before that there was just the Lionguard in Kryta. I don't see how that temple could have been built only two years ago and be overgrown with vines as big as those. Thats my theory anyway... Unless somebody used those seeds which make massive vines grow instantly.

If you look behind the statue near the back wall, one can see an older stone wall literally being cut off at an angle by the newer temple wall that is made of the shiny material.

The older Balth temple perhaps has been taken over by the newer 'shinystone' people to usurp or 'hijack' what powers they can from the alter.

AnnaM

Do we know that the Mursaat dont worship the old gods? Being natives of Tyria, they would've been created by the old gods, and since they clearly rely on their abilities, it would make sense that they maintain at least some connection to the old gods, even if this is kept secret from the mantle. The gods do not seem to be above vengance (especially true of balthazarr and greneth) so the Mursaat would run a great risk by no longer paying them at least some respect. Just a thought.

They do not worship the old gods. The Temple of the Ages is basically the case in point, the Mursaat and White Mantle don't really like it.

As for the forgotten . . . you seem to have "forgotten" (pun not intended but unavoidable) that they were actually spread over the entire continent of Tyria in the beginning. They were CREATED by the old gods to watch over the land, and thus would obviously worship them. They only retreated into the desert when the humans spread across the world and forced them out.

The forgotten could have done it. Not sure about the Seers.

...but the old Kryta did worship the old gods, that is, before the Mantle were developed because of the Charr invasion. That is why the Temple of Ages exists and has statues to the old gods.

Anyone think that the Maguuma centaurs got off their lazy hindquarters and built it?

The seer in the infusion say's the Mursaat is an race from another planet, correct me if wrong.

Yeah, that's how I remember it. Reading through this thread I thought maybe I was making it up in my head.

I think the Centaurs are the best bet. Just because they're all nature-y like the druids doesn't mean that Melandru is their patron god. Think about it, the humans acknowledge all the gods, why wouldn't all the other races?

On other forums people have speculated that it might be the Eye of Janthir (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Eye_of_Janthir).

I wouldn't totally shut out the idea that the forgotten might be responsible for all the scattered yet surpisingly similar temples. According to the Manuscripts, the Forgotten were placed on Tyria by the gods to take care of everything else, before humans were able to do it.

You wanna know what I really think? All this crap is completely unrelated, and GW artists just cheated and re-used skins in alot of places (forgotten armors and mursaat, anyone?).

Seems to me that since the temple is cut out of the cliff, that it was originally much older and then had recently been renovated.

Take the situation as this:

The temple was built as an homage to Balthazar by an ancient race (possibly the forgotten or Seers). It was built to house the powerful artifact we call the Eye of Janthir. However, as the years passed, the jungle grew and covered the temple.

This is where our good buddies the Mursaat come in. They were known to have wandered the forest, as attested to by Saul D'Allessio finding them there. It is quite likely that the Mursaat found the Eye of Janthir, and recognizing its connection to the bloodstones they used to keep the door of Komalie shut, they picked up on it and regarded it as a divine being. As with any divine being, one must respect its house, and so the Mursaat renovated the decrepid temple with their own metals and jade materials (hence the shiny nature of certain parts of the temple).

As for the eye figurine itself, I have reason to believe that it was placed there by the original builders to mark the temple as the location of the magical eye.

When the Zaishen began trade relations with Tyria in 221, they probably also happened to come upon the large ring of fire island chain, home of the Mursaat and the new home of the eye. The Zaishen were a lost order of canthans, remember? They probably got lost and ended up at the ring of fire islands where they had interactions with the mursaat. However, unlike saul, they did not believe the mursaat were gods and instead went on their way after absorbing aspects of mursaat design and architecture. The eye being a remarkable thing, it probably allured the Zaishen and got burnt in their memory, being translated to the Heroes Ascent architecture when the zaishen went on to guard the rift that led to the Hall of Heroes.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Just because it seems like the temple has been renovated, does by no means mean that it was renovated recently. It could have happened 20 years after it was created hundreds, maybe thousands of years ago.

A ot of things in guild wars are meant to for mystery ,and a lot aren't but anet oversees our fantasies and makes em reality.

Well, i was in North Kryta Province (near Giants Basin) Ettin farming and found this sticking out of the ground.

As u can see, it looks to be a wall, bordered with a shiny, relfective material!

I really dont know what this means, so any speculation would be nice.
(Maybe the temple builders were more widespread than previously thought!)

could it be a bloodstone? and, it seems more likely related to the hall of heroes. maybe one of the portals old what's his name created before the spirits killed him.

Firsl of all, I'd like to point out that the fact we have Balthazar's Statue standing there now doesn't mean the structure was ment to be his temple - or any temple - at all, let's not forget that proceding civilisations often preformed a "take-over" of monuments they came across, especially, if they were somehow special.

But in this case, I think there's a structure very, very similar in Shiverpeaks (entrance to UW in Lornar's Pass I think, I'll link screens when I come back home). My vote is, that they both are monuments build by the Forgotten to mark enterances to the outer realms. Balthazar's would be hmmm, Valhalla? Singing fat Valkyries, anyone? ^^