the darkside or failure of the Faction process...

If you're going to continue with the whine, whine, that's not fair, I am a paying customer and I deserve everything always, go ahead, it makes you look like children throwing a fit. The point still stands - you have total control over how much of the game you can access, it's your opportunity, your potential, and rests on you alone and how much you dedicate yourself. What about the person who can only play a few minutes a day, the ultimate casual gamer if you will? Should they have to "grind" through the storyline to access the later parts of the game even if they find it as mindless and boring as you do the faction farming? They paid the same as everyone else, they deserve their instant, workless gratification as well, right? It's ridiculous. Some things require time and constant hard effort, and with other people, that's a part of games. Really, I'm not opposed to changing the way control of areas works, but some of you are real crybaby brats and need to suck it up. And stop with the elitist nonsense, no one is claiming to be better than anyone. The only possible elitism here is the condescension by the raging self-entitlement players.

Bullshit. Would you play Baldur's Gate II if you could only access certain parts of it through massive hours of grinding? Nope. You call it a crap game and walk away. If you haven't even played a single player RPG to realize this, then why are you wasting all of our time with your uneducated blather?

Your personal attacks certainly aren't adding any weight to your side of the argument.

someone close this thread or delete a lot of garbage posts. -.-

Incorrect. The only people looking like children are those children who actually think that it's good gameplay to waste your life on timesinks and other so-called "work". Here in the adult world, people play games to get away from work. I suppose that you'll figure that out when you become an adult in ten years or so given that you're displaying all the maturity of an eleven year old.

You're a liar. It does _not_ rest on you alone, unless you are claiming that you know of a way to grind faction faster than 1000 other people.

It's always nice to see somebody who'd rather whine that I'm insulting idiots who deserve it than actually address the argument. If you are so prissy that you can't handle minor insults on the internet, then you really should find something better to do with your time.

As I already asked, would you care to explain to us all why we aren't entitled to access the so-called "elite" missions? Or are you going to complain that I'm amking "personal attacks" so that you don't have to actually make any valid points.

It's not a whine, mate. It's simply pointing out that you are not making a valid argument. I doubt you can understand this. Have a nice day.

It rests on you alone in that you have the option of investing much time to farm faction, to join an alliance, and do as you will to get yourself where you want to be. Of course not everything can be done alone, this is a CORPG in which you are meant to play together competitively with other people. Also, please don't condescend to me, I'm trying to explain my point and yes I did compare some whining attitudes to a child throwing a tantrum, but I think that's understandable and impersonal enough, and helped to clarify how annoying some of this is. Stop with the internet toughguy stuff, please. Having a different opinion than you doesn't make me an immature idiot child with no life. You may consider faction farming grind, but to some it is probably their form of fun after real life work as you say, it's really an opinion.

point taken Beat, ive said my piece, im out

How condescending. I haven't been a teenager for quite some time so maybe it isn't "obvious" at all. I don't give a damn about elite pve missions nor do I care about farming faction and I haven't done either. What I do find fun is listening to adult children whine about video games: I get a good laugh from someone who is obviously an adult whining about a video game rather than taking it for what it is.

As to your asinine question...

Why aren't you entitled to it? The same reason I am not entitled to play in the GVG tournaments at the end of each season: we didn't earn it. It's a reward. You don't get the reward until you earn it. End of story.

The only thing that annoys and pisses the crap out of me are the leeching afk faction bots. I just want to play the PVP faction missions for fun, but it takes a crap when every freaking battle there is a leecher.

BAN THESE AFK LEECHING FACTION BOTS ALREADY.

The only thing I really have to say addresses the assumption that we "control" what we have access to. Hence, I pose the question. Who decided that we MUST farm faction to get there? It wasn't me, it wasn't you and it certainly wasn't anyone else of the community.

A.Net decided the means by which we had "access," a decision we ultimately had no "control" over. My point being, while yes you can decide whether you farm faction on not, whether you concede to the strict rules of access, that decision too was forced upon us by the very nature of the system. And that is not type of game I, or many others paid for.

If you stick to the literally interpertations of decision making, then yes, you are right. We "decide" what we have access too. But if you look at the more truthful nuiances of the situation, it's pretty clear the system sucks and it isn't fair by any means. Especially not to people with only 2-3 hours on their hands.

Are you even capable of reading the drivel that you spew? If something "rests on you alone", then it certainly cannot possibly include other people. If you have to join an alliance, then it doesn't rest on a single person, it rests on the alliance. This is of course complete bullshit to anybody with even the most basic understanding of what normal people look for in a computer game.

Competition doesn't belong in a PVE game.

I will be condescending to every single child that pretends to understand how the world works.

Claiming that people should be forced to "work" to gain access to parts of a game certainly does make you an immature idiot child with no life. The only kind of person who could ever want their gameplay to more closely resemble a fulltime job than actual entertainment is somebody who's never had a fulltime job.

If somebody considers farming faction to be fun, then that person's opinion can be discounted as invalid. I don't particularly care about the opinions of people who would find the same amount of enjoyment from an assembly line job as from a computer game.

burn thread burn!!!!

I treat people with all the respect that they deserve.

If you aren't a teenager, then I pity your blinkered worldview.

It's nice that you're willing to pay Anet for the privelege of brown-nosing them. It's really nice that you're such a poor consumer that you are willing to sit there and take it whenever a company tells you that you aren't "good enough" to get whatever it is that you paid for.

Please tell me where competition comes into cooperative PVE gameplay? Oh wait, that's right, it only comes into play when you are dealing with people who derive their self worth from making sure that other people can't complete the trivial challenges that you've managed to complete by putting up artificial barriers. The elite missions are not a reward, they are part of the game that every single person who bought factions paid for. Here's another difference between PVP and PVE that you might like to pound through your thickened skull. PVE is not a competition between players, and never should be a competition between players. PVP is a competition between players. If you want competitive PVE (Which is an oxymoron in and of itself thanks to the fact that there are zero intelligent AIs currently in existence on this planet.), then you might want to check out various crappy games like WoW or EQ.

Oh, these people are fully aware of the situation, but they are desperate to keep others from stepping on their toes and managing to complete the same accomplishments that they've managed to complete. Their entire superiority complex comes crashing down if they can't put entry barriers up in the way of everyone else. It's pretty obvious when you take a look at how rapidly the elite missions/UW/FOW went from being described as "completely impossible and outside of the abilities of casual players" to "incredibly easy and trivial to complete". They have to instantly change their opinion of the difficulty once too many other people manage to complete it as well, and it's a wonder that their heads don't spin off in the process.

It does rest on you, in that it's your choice. You can faction farm and remain competitive, thereby having the opportunity to join a powerful alliance, or not. Of course you're going to need to work with others - this is a CORPG afterall. I never said that you alone could accomplish everything, by yourself - just that what you did accomplish was up to you. There's a difference, please try to understand.

Competition can fit very well into a PvE game.

This isn't about the world, this is about a simple game topic, so please stop making unrelated personal assumptions about others and remain on the topic at hand.

I claimed that people should understand that they might have to earn some things or accept that they can't, or in any case, simply stop whining because they're entitled to nothing - not that I've earned those things myself. I have already explained that I haven't the time for faction grinding. I'm still ok with it - I have no bias. I've also said that I wouldn't mind new means of elite mission control, though I still think it should be restrictive. It's something to strive toward, and I like it.

No one's opinion should be counted as invalid - your ego needs deflation. Different people find different things fun, and I'd say alliance battles, while not always requiring the highest of skill, can be fun. I'd also say playing maybe an hours worth a day could provide you with enough faction to join a competitive alliance. Either way, limited access to one part of the game isn't worth so much whining over.

That's the last I'll have to say on this topic, I've explained how I felt already. Unlike myself, you obviously haven't access to any means of intelligent debate outside a games forum, and so you've become a pretentious, pseudo-intellectual prick on an ego high in a simple game discussion, trying to prove something or another. It's silly and childish, and makes it clear that if you yourself aren't a teenager, you've the mind of one. You may have the last word if it will satisfy whatever pathetic needs you have here. In other words: continue on, little troll.