PvP Snobbery

I'd like to open disscussion on this topic.

okay so in another (very lame) off topic thread this came up in a few posts (if you read between the lines).

It seems that certain PvP players view the GW player base as:

PvE players - worthless unless they are need to get me through the missions. PvE is for sissies.

Aliance Batt: - pvP for PvE players...see above

PvP in RA - lowest echeolon of PvP the PREschool of PvP no SERIOUS PvP happens here. Any PvP build that is used here is weak and just silly it's not REAL PvP.

PvP in TA - almost as above yet it's okay if you do it with guild mates when you are bored.

HoH- the upper echelon of PvP hottly debated as the BEST pVPer's...unless your a GVG 'er (see below)

GvG- the ONLY TRUE PvP (since when did PvP mean Capture the flag I'll never know).....often knock heads with the HoH as to who has the biggest $%#.....


now I always saw all of these types of the game as a field unto itself with varying skills needed in each one....a...pick your poison....sort of approach...

PvP is Player versus player after all?

and guild versus guild...well that's a whole horse of a differnt color isn't it. I mean isn't it like comparing American football and Soccer....they have similar skills needed to play...but it's not the same sport.

but I can see that this is not the common view....

Disscuss?

EDIT ADDED: for those that only read the first post (which is lame btw you should read the thread before commenting) THIS IS NOT A PvE vs PVP thread Post that "beating dead horse" content elsewhere.

HA is at about the same level as RA

Firstly...

American Football = Rugby for Wimps
Soccer = Football

Anyhow I think your right about Random Arena being the so-called "bottom" of the PvP ladder.

Most people use it for testing purposes, trash talking, rage quiting, griefing, insulting other people's builds (IWAY and Touch Ranger haters for example) and plain being rude.

I do enjoy the Random Arena the most however, it's the fastest and easist way to enter PvP battles, rewards are ok, battles tend to end quickly.

Really its the rage/grief quiters who make the place a problem. For example:

Luna Silverwood has joined the game
Super Warrior has joined the game
I R leet has joined the game
Spellbreaker has joined the game

(In local chat) I R leet: "oh S*** dudes, we don't have a monk... lol and we have a n00b touch ranger on our team as well. lol good luck winning you d***s

I R leet has left the game

Alliance battles are considered fairly good as far as "real PvP" goes, or so seems the prevailing opinion here. Team arenas are also high on the list (I can attest that the level of competition is very solid). HA is actually supposed to be pretty bad, though opinions vary on that one.

I have to agree that Random Arena is low end PvP, and this is coming from someone who's played quite a lot of RA. RA is rife with poor builds, bad players, bad sportsmanship, and just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOtardery in general. I for one am heartily sick of it.

While I think it's a decent place to hone basic PvP skills and to test builds, it's not much more than that. IMO Alliance Battles are quite good as a casual friendly format. It doesn't take much effort to form a team (though you can be as selective as you want), it's objective based, you have more flexibility in your builds, and generally map control and positioning plays a far greater role which adds to the gameplay depth. Too bad you can't do any thing larger than coordinating your own 4-man team, thanks to A.net's asinine restriction on communication.

since when is GvG "capture the flag" ?

i consider GvG the main form of PvP in guild wars, hence the name of the game, but also becuase it's the only form where
a) you get to organise your complete team
b) you need to have tactics that exceed "let's cap at 2 mins"
c) you get rewards for winning and penalties for losing

GvG is the only form of pvp that includes penalties for a loss, making it much more tense ...

TA is actually pretty damn challenging sometimes. there are some pretty decent teams in there...

GvG is NOT capture the flag...you can win without ever touching the flag...but it helps

Let's follow your statement. GvG = CTF, thus, capping most flags = win, thus, let's all go W/R with all running skills, and let's run as many flags as possible, thus, we win. Well...good luck!

/sarcasm and stupiditism

lol so true

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat Soccer = Football

in my opinion: Soccer = Football = chav game < Squirrel Waterskiing

Most of the ideas about pvp are true

Ra < Ta + Alliance battles< HoH < GvG

People see Pvp as superior to Pve as it is the most competative form of play
Pve can get a bit boring after a while whereas there are always new builds to play and counter in Pvp. You can try different builds in pve...yes but you are always fighting the same (generally not too adept) opponent.

(proper) Pvp is for people who want to play at a really high level and be the best of the best.

Ra and Alliance battles are just for fun
Ta is also mainly just fun however there are actually some pretty good players there (e.g. anyone with r3 glad titles)

HoH is higher level pvp but still for the masses. At a lower level (out of the top 500) gvg is for fun. Below 500 it becomes a good bit more serious however the competion really starts in the to 200-150's.

Oh, one more thing: PvP is "superior", because it cannot be bottified...

I'm pretty sure I can make a bot that can lead an 8 man team through THK, or Hell's precipe...although coding one for famefarming..gj on that...No AI will ever be capable of doing that.

Except HA requires teamwork, coordination, skill, 8 people, and balance for 3 different scenarios. If you think HA and RA are the same play level, try going to HA, because I think you'll find it much different.

As I said in another thread;

GvG and Team Arena are the only places where you will face some decent high level competition, and your build is not limited by bad gameplay mechanics. There is the odd PuG gvg going on, but normally when you hit enter for a GvG you will get a decent guild group who will no doubt offer you a challenge. Rolling endless IWAY or Bloodspike PuGs in HA becomes nothing but tedious.

Random Arena and Heroes Ascent are both infested with horrible gimmick builds, terrible players, and just plain bad manners.

GvG is also the only place where build and excecution of the build is not the only important factor; there is also a large amount of strategy involved. While that is also true to a very very minor extent in HA, it is nowhere close.

GW was created to be a pve/pvp game, the vaunted idea behind it was that the two groups might be able to function together in a cooperative spirit.

Unfortunately, this has proven to be impossible. Most pvp players consider themselves to be a cut above the average pve player, they are convinced that the competitive part of their game makes them better players. I come across it a lot on the forums, especially on 'The Guild Hall', there are a lot of elitists there. One of my favourite comments from pvp snobs is, "maybe your not playing the right game, maybe you should go & play Oblivion",

As far as the pvp community is concerned GW will not be a good game until all pve players leave & they have their 'UAS' so that they never need sully their hands with pve again.

At the end of the day pvp players are no better than pve, any perceived superiority is purely in the smug minds of the players themselves & nowhere else.

GW has given me one thing though... I had no experience of the dedicated pvp'er before this game & I now know I will never want to join a true pvp game because of their unbelievable arrogance.

You all know I cringe when I see a subject title such as this If the discussion can stay contributing and some insightful debate then it will stay open. However, as by the posts I have all ready deleted, if it can't stay away from flames or flamebait then I will need to close this.

But it didn't and probably never will. If anything IIRC, the BWEs seem to paint GW as a PvP game.

Of course, whatever the BWEs did, what is done is done, but this merge both game modes together concept, is never, ever going to work. All they are succeeding in doing at the moment is cause both communities to antagonize one another.

Head onto GWO and you see many PvErs who mirror the folks at TGH perfectly. "Go back to playing FPS you (fill in the blanks)." People are like this everywhere.

And yeah, if you come down to it, competition makes better players, no two ways about it. Doesn't make them better people, or better at anything else (unless another PvP MMO comes along, that has similar concepts), but it does make them better players.

They want this because PvErs "never need sully their hands with PvP" to begin with.

If you want to go by the entire population, it is more or less the same, you have your Joe Wammo and your Joe RA scrub. If you get down to whose on top, well, PvP forces you to play in a well, competitive environment, while PvE is far, far more casual.

Your loss.

If I had that same attitude, I would never play a PvE MMORPG again after I experienced the monstrous egos some people had in EQ. But I did, and continued to enjoy it.

Why?
Because i can sleep and still get "Master's reward".

That enough said.

The whole reason why people PvP is simply because its to go agaisnt an opponent that will, you know, actually react to what I am doing.I can't count the number of times I have interrupted a Afflicted Ritualist's Flesh of my Flesh,you can simply interrupt it and they will simply try to cast it again.

PvE is too predictable.Your enemy is simply a scripted intelligence who will not react to anything but your aggro bubble.

[QUOTE=Blow Up Doll]
People see Pvp as superior to Pve as it is the most competative form of play
Pve can get a bit boring after a while whereas there are always new builds to play and counter in Pvp. You can try different builds in pve...yes but you are always fighting the same (generally not too adept) opponent.

"PvP superior? Most teams run and fight the same builds over and over, IF a new build does happen to come along, then it's Cut and Paste time for others and repeat the above. That argument holds no validity as you can say the say for diversity in PvP as you stated for PvE."

(proper) Pvp is for people who want to play at a really high level and be the best of the best.

"I do not consider CC builds and mashing a few keys the "Best of the Best". GW has one of the worst forms of PvP I have encountered in a game, yet the most snobbish and rude players in that area. Try RvR where you create ONE build, learn all it's diversity, and face hundreds at times in PvP, good team work, and yes that is even in Random groups, as people learn to play a character and depend on each to know how to play it well. That is PvP, not changing builds in a blink and copying builds. not just 4, 8, 12, etc.
And even then people do not claim "Best of the Best", I belive this attitude came about by giveing RL trips and cash awards.
The argument in GW between PvP and PvE has been long standing, and imo it will not get better, when either is pushed into a playstyle they do not like, it drives the community farther apart and loses players. We do not have to agree upon anothers playstyle , but I believe we have to stop disrespecting it."

This has been the only true comment on the current pvp situation so far.

Youre also forgetting though that the 12v12 battles serve the sole purpose of trying to get all the farmers into pvp. Why you ask? As I have stated in the past, the serious pvp players get nothing out of it but a laugh and get to run a complete gimick build. Whats the reward for it? Kurzik or Luxon faction, which is used for what? Jade or Amber. You need XX amount of Jade or Amber for your armor if you dont have the money to buy it from others. Which brings up the true reason people are doing it. FARMING. amber is selling for 2.2k atm. theres an easy 20k and u can get 10k in an hour easy. when amber was higher, it was MUCH easier to make tripple that amount.

the whole thing is a very bad attempt to force the farmers to try pvp in hopes that they quit farming those trying to kill off these gold for money sites or people bitching because some people farm all day and have things that others cannot afford.

Ever seen a Whammo who joins a RA game, says that he is wielding a "Victo's Bulwark" and "Victo's Somethingelse" then gets spiked in a matter of seconds when the game starts ? I see them all the time and it says something about PvE players IMHO.

And what's even funnier, the guy doesn't even know that he is making an idiot of himself because for every green item there's a PvP item with the same or better stats (or you can make it using unlocked mods).

this is the type of thing I am talking about...any many of your other very good example about how PvE and PvP tend to not mix...due to crazyness on both sides.

the problem is well documented....what are possible solutions?

Factions was ment to bring the two together...did it work?