the primary attribute for a ritualist is spawning. no one but primary rits get this attribute. that said, i believe that all ritualist builds should revolve around using this attribute and in turn, spirits.
builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.
if a rit is not using spirits or the spawning attribute, then that character is better off selecting a different primary class and playing a rit secondary.
also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.
what do i feel is a good rit build? points in spawning. 3 or more spirits, a rez, remaning skills should compliment spirits. ya, this is vague, but this post is not about a specific build. it is that all ritualist builds should make use of the spawning attribute and spirits.
ritualists need to use spawning
morimoto
Dahnel
should all rits have blonde hair and blue eyes too ?
morimoto
laf
no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.
here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.
some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.
the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute.
no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.
here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.
some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.
the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute.
Siren
You're both asinine.
morimoto has the right idea, if only slightly misguided. Spawning is important to Ritualists, yes, but only those using Spirits extensively. Rits using Restoration--the targeted Restoration spells--shouldn't bother with Spawning power. Rits using certain types of targeted Channeling spells shouldn't bother with Spawning power.
If a Rit is doing Spirits without Spawning, that Rit is a fool.
If there's a Mo/Rt using Mend Body and Soul, however, without Spawning, there's no problem with that. Hell, a Rt/Mo using Mend Body and Soul without Spawning isn't all that dumb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
morimoto has the right idea, if only slightly misguided. Spawning is important to Ritualists, yes, but only those using Spirits extensively. Rits using Restoration--the targeted Restoration spells--shouldn't bother with Spawning power. Rits using certain types of targeted Channeling spells shouldn't bother with Spawning power.
If a Rit is doing Spirits without Spawning, that Rit is a fool.
If there's a Mo/Rt using Mend Body and Soul, however, without Spawning, there's no problem with that. Hell, a Rt/Mo using Mend Body and Soul without Spawning isn't all that dumb.
Quote:
no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.
Bull****
Mai
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
laf
no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.
here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.
some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.
the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute. You actually made me lol
So not investing in my primary attribute makes me not using 100% from my class. Ever heard of a curses necro in general? Bloodspike necro? How about a tactics war? Being a primary class not only allows the player access to the class primary attb but also to use sup runes and able to do more damage than just having it as a secondary.
Maybe...No I retract that..You are a fool for thinking that classes like necro need to be only a MM and that players have to form into generic builds.
no, but they should all use spawning and spirits. if they are not, they would be better serverd by having a rit as their secondary.
here's another good example with the monk. their primary is divine favor, its increases the healing they do. a primary monk should never use a build that focuses on smiting. their primary attribute helps out in no way. if a person wants to make heavy use of smiting, a monk secondary would be much better.
some classes have primary attribututes that work well with different builds. energy storage, expertise. some, like the ritualist and monk, do not.
the necro primary, soul reaping, lends itself to having minions. if a necro does not use minions, they are not getting 100% from their primary attribute. You actually made me lol
So not investing in my primary attribute makes me not using 100% from my class. Ever heard of a curses necro in general? Bloodspike necro? How about a tactics war? Being a primary class not only allows the player access to the class primary attb but also to use sup runes and able to do more damage than just having it as a secondary.
Maybe...No I retract that..You are a fool for thinking that classes like necro need to be only a MM and that players have to form into generic builds.
bushe
ah so runes armor and energy are unimportant. Got it!
SnipiousMax
16 in any one attribute is normally better than 12 in any one attribute.
holden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahnel
should all rits have blonde hair and blue eyes too ?
l o l
morimoto
why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping.
x-todd
maybe a person who wants to be a rit wants more than ONE build for his/her rit. maybe someone wants a spirit spammer build AND a Channeling or Restoration build... ON THE SAME character...
I run a spirit spam build and i use spawning but if i want to change to channeling build, i dont need it. so should i make another character... like E/Rt, just for that build.... no.
its all about diversity my friend.
I run a spirit spam build and i use spawning but if i want to change to channeling build, i dont need it. so should i make another character... like E/Rt, just for that build.... no.
its all about diversity my friend.
TGgold
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. Actually...you're pretty much wrong.
Rits get to use their rit runes and armor. Now, maybe it's just me, but playing a restoration rit (without spawning) I feel I'm more effiecient with a 16 in restoration than a N/Rt with a 12 in it and an 8 in SR.
IE: RUNES AND ARMOR are important too.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. Actually...you're pretty much wrong.
Rits get to use their rit runes and armor. Now, maybe it's just me, but playing a restoration rit (without spawning) I feel I'm more effiecient with a 16 in restoration than a N/Rt with a 12 in it and an 8 in SR.
IE: RUNES AND ARMOR are important too.
Hollerith
Right, the reason I chose the Rt primary was for the runes, plain & simple. The inherent effect of Spawning seems a bit weak to me (although I would say high Spawning is needed for optimal use of Shelter/Union/etc). However, I am happy that as a Rt primary, I have access to augment the skills in Spawning. Furthermore, I've used spiritless builds, and enjoy the 16 in Channeling as opposed to 12.
Even as spirit artillery, I usually only have enough in Spawning to make Boon of Creation give me 5 energy back. I'd rather my spirits deal ~100% more damage than be able to take 40% more from foes.
And yes, a N bomber is much better suited than a Rt.
Even as spirit artillery, I usually only have enough in Spawning to make Boon of Creation give me 5 energy back. I'd rather my spirits deal ~100% more damage than be able to take 40% more from foes.
And yes, a N bomber is much better suited than a Rt.
LaserLight
Morimoto, you're completely ignoring the almost game-breaking advantage of this class - that being the incredible versatility it has. A Ritualist primary can defend, attack, run, heal, the works, on one skillbar. Channeling and Communing runes are, in and of themselves, worth a primary slot. What you're advertising is that all primary Ritualists should be Spirit-laden ghost tanks, and that's just not true.
Exhibit A:
Dhark Spirit Sakura
Chanelling 11 (14)
Communing 9 (10)
Spawning 8 (9)
Air 8
Ritual Lord [E]
Union
Shelter
Spirit Burn
Rupture Soul
Windborne Speed
Blinding Flash
ReSig/Flesh of my Flesh (depending on situation)
My hybrid Protection/Damage-Dealing/Flagging Ritualist. Has two lousy Spirits and only uses Spawning for Ritual Lord to keep them up. Otherwise I'd gladly use my Ritualist primary with nothing but Communing, Channeling, and Air, since Communing and Channeling are superb lines more than deserving of Rune support.
This is, by the way, one of the more popular characters in my guild's GvG runs.
Exhibit A:
Dhark Spirit Sakura
Chanelling 11 (14)
Communing 9 (10)
Spawning 8 (9)
Air 8
Ritual Lord [E]
Union
Shelter
Spirit Burn
Rupture Soul
Windborne Speed
Blinding Flash
ReSig/Flesh of my Flesh (depending on situation)
My hybrid Protection/Damage-Dealing/Flagging Ritualist. Has two lousy Spirits and only uses Spawning for Ritual Lord to keep them up. Otherwise I'd gladly use my Ritualist primary with nothing but Communing, Channeling, and Air, since Communing and Channeling are superb lines more than deserving of Rune support.
This is, by the way, one of the more popular characters in my guild's GvG runs.
Two April Mornings
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. /autoflame
[SARCASM] I mean sheesh, all mesmers need mantra of recovery as their elite, and they all need 16 fast cast to use those 1/4 second skills [/SARCASM]
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. /autoflame
[SARCASM] I mean sheesh, all mesmers need mantra of recovery as their elite, and they all need 16 fast cast to use those 1/4 second skills [/SARCASM]
Vahn Roi
What if you don't use any spirits? Then the attribute is a waste aye?
mahousaru
I play a rit primary because I like the boobies 
Tainek
If this was the case, then we shouldnt be seeing any warriors, and the strength attribue is Pure Trash
morimoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
What if you don't use any spirits? Then the attribute is a waste aye?
that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.
Tainek
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.
so what your saying is , if your not using spirits, dont put points into spawning power
while were at it, if you dont have any air magic spells, dont put points into air magic!
/Sarcasm Genious! /Sarcasm
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.
so what your saying is , if your not using spirits, dont put points into spawning power
while were at it, if you dont have any air magic spells, dont put points into air magic!
/Sarcasm Genious! /Sarcasm
Pick Me
Yes, that's exactly correct.
But that is not the only reason for being a ritualist.
The same arguement can be made for any class. Why on earth would you use a warrior without maxing out on Strength? Because you would put points into a weapon and tactics, and remaining into Strength.
Why would a Ranger not have 16 expertise? Because you may need to heal yourself (a ranger without a bow, why become a ranger then?). Trappers do not use a bow, but do require maxing out on Wilderness Survival and then Expertise. A Bowmaster requires Marksmanship, but what about Expertise? Sure, put some points into it, but you also need healing too.
An elementalist/Monk - What kind of Elementalist doesn't have elemental skills, right?
Warrior/Ranger - why would a warrior use poison?
The reason for having a second profession is so you can use skills from both, instead of having the use from only 1 profession. Why max out on Spawning if you aren't going to use spirits? Well, who said you weren't. The problem is if you want massive healing or massive damage, or a little of protection with healing and something that can do some nice damage, you may be willing to sacrifice spirit health for other things.
Case in point, a warrior is willing to give up some strength for defense (and increase in healing). An elementalist may be restricted to heal instead of nuking (group can't find a healer in a PUG PvE game). Or a Ritualist decides to use Channelling spells and Restoration spells to provide offense and help monks out on healing. The spirits created don't need to last and are used to both provide healing and dish out damage (some spells will do damge for each spirit created or that are already out). Spirits can be just a means to an end.
So, if thats the case, then why be a primary Ritualist? The looks? The moves? The dances? The backup dancers? The armor? The weapons? The fact that if you need to or want to, you can have more points into Spawning. You shouldn't be forced to max out Spawning just because you are a Ritualist. If you were forced to max out Spawning, then you wouldn't have Mesmer/Warriors fighting melee. You wouldn't have Elementalist/Monks healing, and you certainly won't find A/R using a bow. Why? Because Elementalists are supposed to heal, Mesmers aren't supposed to fight with swords, Assassins aren't supposed to use a bow. But they can.
So, I would say that your argument of Spawning power is only for Ritualists, and thus must be maxed out by Ritualists is not valid. If you can use runes for your 2ndary class, then perhaps you might have a small argument, but I don't think you can.
But that is not the only reason for being a ritualist.
The same arguement can be made for any class. Why on earth would you use a warrior without maxing out on Strength? Because you would put points into a weapon and tactics, and remaining into Strength.
Why would a Ranger not have 16 expertise? Because you may need to heal yourself (a ranger without a bow, why become a ranger then?). Trappers do not use a bow, but do require maxing out on Wilderness Survival and then Expertise. A Bowmaster requires Marksmanship, but what about Expertise? Sure, put some points into it, but you also need healing too.
An elementalist/Monk - What kind of Elementalist doesn't have elemental skills, right?
Warrior/Ranger - why would a warrior use poison?
The reason for having a second profession is so you can use skills from both, instead of having the use from only 1 profession. Why max out on Spawning if you aren't going to use spirits? Well, who said you weren't. The problem is if you want massive healing or massive damage, or a little of protection with healing and something that can do some nice damage, you may be willing to sacrifice spirit health for other things.
Case in point, a warrior is willing to give up some strength for defense (and increase in healing). An elementalist may be restricted to heal instead of nuking (group can't find a healer in a PUG PvE game). Or a Ritualist decides to use Channelling spells and Restoration spells to provide offense and help monks out on healing. The spirits created don't need to last and are used to both provide healing and dish out damage (some spells will do damge for each spirit created or that are already out). Spirits can be just a means to an end.
So, if thats the case, then why be a primary Ritualist? The looks? The moves? The dances? The backup dancers? The armor? The weapons? The fact that if you need to or want to, you can have more points into Spawning. You shouldn't be forced to max out Spawning just because you are a Ritualist. If you were forced to max out Spawning, then you wouldn't have Mesmer/Warriors fighting melee. You wouldn't have Elementalist/Monks healing, and you certainly won't find A/R using a bow. Why? Because Elementalists are supposed to heal, Mesmers aren't supposed to fight with swords, Assassins aren't supposed to use a bow. But they can.
So, I would say that your argument of Spawning power is only for Ritualists, and thus must be maxed out by Ritualists is not valid. If you can use runes for your 2ndary class, then perhaps you might have a small argument, but I don't think you can.
Two April Mornings
you don't need all your points spread out evenly, ritualists can have 16 restoration and 13 chanelling and still be good as hell.
NatalieD
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute.
So when you a play Rt/E, do you put points into Spawning Power, and Channeling, and Communing, and Restoration, and Air, and Earth, and Fire, and Water, all at the same time?
What? You only put points in around three for any given build?
My god, man! You're shorting yourself five attributes!
What? You only put points in around three for any given build?
My god, man! You're shorting yourself five attributes!
warlocke
ok i for one am a rit ele and i love it i dont use spawning cause i have no need to, if your going to demand we all use spawning maybe you should go join the aryan nation or hitlers dead army or some bs like that and get off these boards
Hollerith
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
I must have missed this the first time I read the thread.
Lambentviper
maybe people wanna use a Rt/ primary because they can use their runes 0.o
wow, what an inovation!
wow, what an inovation!
JoeKnowMo
I thank the stars that GW is not a one track game, where you have to play one way or you lose. There are tons of innovative and effective builds that don't have a ton of points in their primary attribute.
Also, you can have a lot of points in spawning so you can use Spirit Channeling or Attuned Was Songkai and not use spirits.
Maybe mesmers shouldn't use stances (distortion, mantra of resolve, etc.) because fast casting doesn't affect stances. Pfft.
Open up your mind. I'd fall asleep from boredom if all my rit builds revolved around spirits.
No wonder Rits get a bad rap.
Also, you can have a lot of points in spawning so you can use Spirit Channeling or Attuned Was Songkai and not use spirits.
Maybe mesmers shouldn't use stances (distortion, mantra of resolve, etc.) because fast casting doesn't affect stances. Pfft.
Open up your mind. I'd fall asleep from boredom if all my rit builds revolved around spirits.
No wonder Rits get a bad rap.
chrislee149
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
that is what i am saying. if a ritualist is not using spirits, then there is no need to put points into spawning. spawning is the primary attribute and only primary ritualists get that attribute.
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute. Well, then I'm sorry that my Warrior barely uses Strength, and prefers Tactics and Swordsmanship. In fact, I'm more sorry that when I'm a W/E I don't use a sword, axe, hammer, fire, lightning, water, and air all at the same time. Not to mention that pretty much all classes "shoot themselves one attribute", just not their primary. If you're a support monk, don't run around using Bane Signet.
And 4 extra attribute points is really good, believe it or not.
you are essentially shorting yourself one attribute. Well, then I'm sorry that my Warrior barely uses Strength, and prefers Tactics and Swordsmanship. In fact, I'm more sorry that when I'm a W/E I don't use a sword, axe, hammer, fire, lightning, water, and air all at the same time. Not to mention that pretty much all classes "shoot themselves one attribute", just not their primary. If you're a support monk, don't run around using Bane Signet.
And 4 extra attribute points is really good, believe it or not.
ScorchedTater
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
why on earth would anyone want to make a rit/X and not use spirits? the ritualist primary attribute makes spirits stronger! if you dont use spirits, then you dont need points into spawning. if you dont put points into spawning, then that person could make a more powerful character by picking a different class and taking rit as a secondary.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. Two very important skills are in Spawning, Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth. A minion bomber with these two skills can do large AOE with bone minions and "reap" the benefits of creating creatures. These two skills alone make Spawning a very important attribute for non-spirit ritualist.
by selecting a different class as primary and taking rit as a secondary, that person will get the benefit of a different primary attribute (they arent going to use spawning anyways, might as well have a different profession). maybe one that would better suit the build they want.
you can take any rit/x build and if it doesnt revolve around spirits and spawning, then the opposite of that, the x/rit is more powerful.
Mai....i am by no means saying that a necro build has to revolve around minions. its just that when things die you see the full power of soul reaping. Two very important skills are in Spawning, Boon of Creation and Explosive Growth. A minion bomber with these two skills can do large AOE with bone minions and "reap" the benefits of creating creatures. These two skills alone make Spawning a very important attribute for non-spirit ritualist.
Isileth
I really dont think he thought it through all that much before he posted. I dont use my primary in a lot of builds. But i get access to the runes and armour for that proffesion! 16 is a big difference to the 12 max you get with it as a secondary.
frickaline
If you think that there is only one way to play *any* of the 6 characters in Guild Wars, you are seriously misguided.
Not all rits need spawning nor spirits in their build. Thats just plain laughable.
Not all rits need spawning nor spirits in their build. Thats just plain laughable.
morimoto
dood....i put a good deal of thought into this post and regardless of what you short minded ppl think, i stand by what i originally said.
my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.
i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.
if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.
most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information.
my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.
i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.
if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.
most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information.
Pick Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
dood....i put a good deal of thought into this post and regardless of what you short minded ppl think, i stand by what i originally said.
my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.
i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.
if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.
most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information. In theory, your arguement is sound. If you choose a primary class, you should max out on your primary attribute. As in, why be an elementalist without maxing out Energy Storage, why be a monk without maxing out on Divine Favor, etc. Unfortuneatly, some things are flawed. It has been mentioned somewhere in the Ritualist forum that a Spawning skill that kills a spirit is wrong. What is the point of increasing its health just so you can kill it instantly? Some builds utilize two attributes (1 from one profession, one from another, or maybe two from the primary profession). It is because of certain builds that it is not necessary for the points to be used in the primary attribute, but allocated elsewhere. What do you do then? If I had points into Restoration and Healing Prayers. What type of character should I be? I can't be a Ritualist, as I didn't allocate enough points into Spawning, as you have suggested. I can't be a Monk because of the same problem. Help me out of this dilema.
Your arguement is if you want to be a certain class, then ask yourself why. Why be a warrior? Why be a ranger? Why be a certain profession above the others? The main reason to be a Warrior or Ranger is because you have access to the primary skill (Strength or Expertise respectively). So why bother with those professions if you aren't going to use those attributes.
I agree with you in theory. But since GW is not based on main attributes, the fact that in PvE you are forced to have a 2nd profession, means that GW wants you not to limit yourself, but to expand and improve your character the best way you can. That is why they allow you to change your 2nd profession as well.
If someone wants to play a ritualist healer/protector, where would you allocate your points? Why would GW decide to put a spirit destroying spell into the Spawning attribute? Why isn't there a spirit attribute? I don't think there is enough spirits in any 1 attribute to make a complete spirit build worth wild. Only because you want to max out Spawning, and something else.
So my question to you becomes, why would you max out spawning and have spirits that do nothing? You put the rest into Channeling/Communion/Restoration? There are only a few spirits in each. There aren't enough spirits that make you spirit build useful. Oh wait, you have all of your spirits from each attribute on your skill bar? What good is a level 0 Shelter? Yes it has 68% or so more life than a normal level 0 Shelter spirit, but if you put more into Communion, then what happens to the other attribute spirits? If you only have 2 or 3 spirits on your skill bar, is it really that important to have Spawning and lose the effectiveness of one of the spirits?
my original post said rits should use spirits or the spawning attribute. if a rit does not use these, then there is prolly a better primary profession that can be chosen.
i use different builds for all my characters and i find the best ones revolve around the primary attribute.
if you use a build that does not revolve around the primary attribute, then why would you play that class? (for the runes and/or armor? i guess so, but i am skeptical at best.) you would be better served selecting a different class as the primary. maybe one with a primary attribute that would better server that build.
most of the replies are pretty good. some ppl in this forum can form intelligent arguments. others are way off base. they like to change the argument and throw in irrelevant information. In theory, your arguement is sound. If you choose a primary class, you should max out on your primary attribute. As in, why be an elementalist without maxing out Energy Storage, why be a monk without maxing out on Divine Favor, etc. Unfortuneatly, some things are flawed. It has been mentioned somewhere in the Ritualist forum that a Spawning skill that kills a spirit is wrong. What is the point of increasing its health just so you can kill it instantly? Some builds utilize two attributes (1 from one profession, one from another, or maybe two from the primary profession). It is because of certain builds that it is not necessary for the points to be used in the primary attribute, but allocated elsewhere. What do you do then? If I had points into Restoration and Healing Prayers. What type of character should I be? I can't be a Ritualist, as I didn't allocate enough points into Spawning, as you have suggested. I can't be a Monk because of the same problem. Help me out of this dilema.
Your arguement is if you want to be a certain class, then ask yourself why. Why be a warrior? Why be a ranger? Why be a certain profession above the others? The main reason to be a Warrior or Ranger is because you have access to the primary skill (Strength or Expertise respectively). So why bother with those professions if you aren't going to use those attributes.
I agree with you in theory. But since GW is not based on main attributes, the fact that in PvE you are forced to have a 2nd profession, means that GW wants you not to limit yourself, but to expand and improve your character the best way you can. That is why they allow you to change your 2nd profession as well.
If someone wants to play a ritualist healer/protector, where would you allocate your points? Why would GW decide to put a spirit destroying spell into the Spawning attribute? Why isn't there a spirit attribute? I don't think there is enough spirits in any 1 attribute to make a complete spirit build worth wild. Only because you want to max out Spawning, and something else.
So my question to you becomes, why would you max out spawning and have spirits that do nothing? You put the rest into Channeling/Communion/Restoration? There are only a few spirits in each. There aren't enough spirits that make you spirit build useful. Oh wait, you have all of your spirits from each attribute on your skill bar? What good is a level 0 Shelter? Yes it has 68% or so more life than a normal level 0 Shelter spirit, but if you put more into Communion, then what happens to the other attribute spirits? If you only have 2 or 3 spirits on your skill bar, is it really that important to have Spawning and lose the effectiveness of one of the spirits?
sinican
i didn't read all the posts i just didnt feel like it...
from the OP perspective i can see his point...
however it is missing key factors...
if im playing a rit for restoration and channeling I could go monk primary and rit secondary so i get the bonus of divine favor taced on to my healing abilities.. sure if thats all the further you look...
the ritualist armor is only available to ritualist primaries...
a chan/rest/com/spawning rit has items to hold... that of corse disalow the benefits of a staff or wand/icon this is made up for by the armor...
+10 AL while holding and item
+5+5+5 AL for spirits... etc...
if i want to be a chan rit im not going to use monk and i sure as heck am not going to invest in spawning when im not using anything from spawning that will benefit me
if im going rest rit i want some defence so im always alive to keep healing ressing etc.. so im going to use holding an item plus my armor of +10 while holding armor...
its a little ignorant to say a rit is not good because they dont use spawning...
i had a great war that didt use a single point in str... i wasnt a dmger i was playing a tank runner... yea sure their are builds that rely on the primary att but they arent always the best ones...
so...
thats all...
from the OP perspective i can see his point...
however it is missing key factors...
if im playing a rit for restoration and channeling I could go monk primary and rit secondary so i get the bonus of divine favor taced on to my healing abilities.. sure if thats all the further you look...
the ritualist armor is only available to ritualist primaries...
a chan/rest/com/spawning rit has items to hold... that of corse disalow the benefits of a staff or wand/icon this is made up for by the armor...
+10 AL while holding and item
+5+5+5 AL for spirits... etc...
if i want to be a chan rit im not going to use monk and i sure as heck am not going to invest in spawning when im not using anything from spawning that will benefit me
if im going rest rit i want some defence so im always alive to keep healing ressing etc.. so im going to use holding an item plus my armor of +10 while holding armor...
its a little ignorant to say a rit is not good because they dont use spawning...
i had a great war that didt use a single point in str... i wasnt a dmger i was playing a tank runner... yea sure their are builds that rely on the primary att but they arent always the best ones...
so...
thats all...
Oso Minar
I love playing a Ritualist. I don't WANT to play any other characters.
Normally, I play a Protection Ritualist, making heavy use of spirits (and using Spawning Power). However, there are some times when I just want to switch things up and go nuke the bejesus out of stuff, which is something a Ritualist can ALSO do well.
My nuking build uses two Spirits (Destruction and Pain). Neither one is there to do damage. Why would I want to invest points into Spawning Power when all that's needed is the spirits to physically be there?
I much rather prefer to load up on Channeling/Communing. This way, my nukes hit as hard as possible. The spirits stay up simply so that I can utilize nukes that do bonus things when I'm around a Spirit. There's no use for Spawning Power.
I love playing my RITUALIST. I like the crazy drunken animations, I like the styles of armor, I like the concepts behind the skills. I really love the versatility of the class; there have been many times when friends have asked me to change up before a mission (nuker to healer, or otherwise) and I can easily do that. I don't need to switch characters, all I need to do is flip some skills around on the bar, and change my skill points around.
The concept of a Main Character is sadly lost on many people. I like Oso, and that's who I'm going to be playing. There are days where I'll flip to an alt to get different perspectives, but most days you'll find me happily nuking OR healing on Oso.
Ritualists are much more versatile than you give them credit for; there are many things that we can do with great skill, if we specialize for it.
Normally, I play a Protection Ritualist, making heavy use of spirits (and using Spawning Power). However, there are some times when I just want to switch things up and go nuke the bejesus out of stuff, which is something a Ritualist can ALSO do well.
My nuking build uses two Spirits (Destruction and Pain). Neither one is there to do damage. Why would I want to invest points into Spawning Power when all that's needed is the spirits to physically be there?
I much rather prefer to load up on Channeling/Communing. This way, my nukes hit as hard as possible. The spirits stay up simply so that I can utilize nukes that do bonus things when I'm around a Spirit. There's no use for Spawning Power.
I love playing my RITUALIST. I like the crazy drunken animations, I like the styles of armor, I like the concepts behind the skills. I really love the versatility of the class; there have been many times when friends have asked me to change up before a mission (nuker to healer, or otherwise) and I can easily do that. I don't need to switch characters, all I need to do is flip some skills around on the bar, and change my skill points around.
The concept of a Main Character is sadly lost on many people. I like Oso, and that's who I'm going to be playing. There are days where I'll flip to an alt to get different perspectives, but most days you'll find me happily nuking OR healing on Oso.
Ritualists are much more versatile than you give them credit for; there are many things that we can do with great skill, if we specialize for it.
Klmpee
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
the primary attribute for a ritualist is spawning. no one but primary rits get this attribute. that said, i believe that all ritualist builds should revolve around using this attribute and in turn, spirits.
builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.
if a rit is not using spirits or the spawning attribute, then that character is better off selecting a different primary class and playing a rit secondary.
also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.
what do i feel is a good rit build? points in spawning. 3 or more spirits, a rez, remaning skills should compliment spirits. ya, this is vague, but this post is not about a specific build. it is that all ritualist builds should make use of the spawning attribute and spirits. okay.. what about the now nerfed rit spike..gaze from beyond.. most of the spikers didnt even use spawning.. so yea rits suck because they dont use spawning even tho on a perfect spike you didnt even get a chance to see there health drop... why tell people how to play if they want to play the way they want to?
builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.
if a rit is not using spirits or the spawning attribute, then that character is better off selecting a different primary class and playing a rit secondary.
also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.
what do i feel is a good rit build? points in spawning. 3 or more spirits, a rez, remaning skills should compliment spirits. ya, this is vague, but this post is not about a specific build. it is that all ritualist builds should make use of the spawning attribute and spirits. okay.. what about the now nerfed rit spike..gaze from beyond.. most of the spikers didnt even use spawning.. so yea rits suck because they dont use spawning even tho on a perfect spike you didnt even get a chance to see there health drop... why tell people how to play if they want to play the way they want to?
Spindraft
At initial thought this sounds ok, but the idea holds no water at all. And, my main beef here, as well as a good example, is your debunking of the minion bomber load. If you think it's a bad build, you obviously have not tried it.
In the bomber load, you're spawning att's purpose is not to make your minions stronger, it's to increase your aoe damage and health/energy recuperation when you create new minions. Every time you cast minions, you regain 100hp, 16nrg, and cause about 100 aoe damage (not including death novas)......all this from a single cast that costs you 15nrg.....so net, you gain 1 nrg and 100hp. And do note, that as the Rt's primary attribute of spawning is critical to the build......it will only work as a Rt primary, not a Necro.
Sure, it's a very unorthodox build and not what you might think a Rt is 'supposed' to be. But it's incredibly effective in many evironments, and an imaginative use of skills.......as are many orther builds that may or may not use Spawning & Spirits. You can't simply pigeonhole a versatile class into one type of task.
I now consider this idea...........'pwnd'.
In the bomber load, you're spawning att's purpose is not to make your minions stronger, it's to increase your aoe damage and health/energy recuperation when you create new minions. Every time you cast minions, you regain 100hp, 16nrg, and cause about 100 aoe damage (not including death novas)......all this from a single cast that costs you 15nrg.....so net, you gain 1 nrg and 100hp. And do note, that as the Rt's primary attribute of spawning is critical to the build......it will only work as a Rt primary, not a Necro.
Sure, it's a very unorthodox build and not what you might think a Rt is 'supposed' to be. But it's incredibly effective in many evironments, and an imaginative use of skills.......as are many orther builds that may or may not use Spawning & Spirits. You can't simply pigeonhole a versatile class into one type of task.
I now consider this idea...........'pwnd'.
Zakarr
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
builds that do not make use of the spawning attribute and spirits are not good ritualist builds in my opinion.
Attuned Was Songkai is Spawning Power line elite skill. It doesn't require any spirits to work at full potential. I guess Ranger line nature rituals work too with Ritual Lord and with some other Spawning Power skills. Did you mean just binding rituals -> ritualist spirits or spirits generally?
Runes are only for primary profession so it is not just about primary attribute.
Runes are only for primary profession so it is not just about primary attribute.
Oso Minar
Destruction -- Quick recharge, decent bonus damage with the explosion.
Gaze From Beyond -- Great damage using spirits, even with the nerf.
Spirit Boon Strike -- Decent damage, and heals spirits for more than the GfB cost.
Essence Strike -- Gives energy back in presence of spirits, almost enough for two nukes.
Spirit Burn -- Added damage in the presence of spirits.
Pain -- Secondary backup spirit in case Destruction goes down. It stays up for a long time.
Weapon of Quickening -- Personal preference...quickens the recharge timers, and lasts a while. "Free" spot if you want to capture Elites, etc.
Flesh of my Flesh -- Fantastic rez spell.
Channeling -- 12
Communing -- 12
Restoration -- 3
Effective and complete build. Spirits are not central to the build, but rather as devices to chain the damage spells with. While yes, this is pretty much a pure damage build, there can be variations.
I've used Mighty Was Vorizun along with my +armor set while holding an item(that's only available to Ritualists, mind you) for a nice 55 armor bonus and 20 energy bonus.
I simply prefer Weapon of Quickening along with my +armor while under a weapon skill (that's only available to Ritualists...mind you) in order to both cast my spells 25% faster AND to have +60 armor from the set.
Simply put, this is a build that I find extremely effective, and does not require the use of Spawning one bit. My spirits aren't meant for damage or support or anything, I simply need them there to get the added effects from my nukes. Along with my Ritualist-only armor and sideskills, I am very tough to take down under normal circumstances.
AND I get to laugh at my crazy drunken animations.
Note that this is just ONE of my favorite builds, I love healing and spirit spamming as well. We all know that spirit spammers are effective. I've grouped with a great Ritualist Minion Master as well (and would love to know how he did it). I bet that, with some experimentation, I could even make a decent Ritualist tank. I have four or five builds that vary, depending on the situation (and I REALLY wish there was a simple "spec swap" button that you could use in town, haha). This is just a fun build that I use when the group has enough healing power or another spirit spammer to help deal some damage. My versatility is, as I said earlier, one of the reasons I love my Ritualist, and that versatility does not come with a "MUST USE SPAWNING POWER" price tag.
Thanks for reading. I meant to stick my build in another thread for discussion, I think I'll do that now that I've written it all up. It just fits here because it doesn't require spawning power.
Gaze From Beyond -- Great damage using spirits, even with the nerf.
Spirit Boon Strike -- Decent damage, and heals spirits for more than the GfB cost.
Essence Strike -- Gives energy back in presence of spirits, almost enough for two nukes.
Spirit Burn -- Added damage in the presence of spirits.
Pain -- Secondary backup spirit in case Destruction goes down. It stays up for a long time.
Weapon of Quickening -- Personal preference...quickens the recharge timers, and lasts a while. "Free" spot if you want to capture Elites, etc.
Flesh of my Flesh -- Fantastic rez spell.
Channeling -- 12
Communing -- 12
Restoration -- 3
Effective and complete build. Spirits are not central to the build, but rather as devices to chain the damage spells with. While yes, this is pretty much a pure damage build, there can be variations.
I've used Mighty Was Vorizun along with my +armor set while holding an item(that's only available to Ritualists, mind you) for a nice 55 armor bonus and 20 energy bonus.
I simply prefer Weapon of Quickening along with my +armor while under a weapon skill (that's only available to Ritualists...mind you) in order to both cast my spells 25% faster AND to have +60 armor from the set.
Simply put, this is a build that I find extremely effective, and does not require the use of Spawning one bit. My spirits aren't meant for damage or support or anything, I simply need them there to get the added effects from my nukes. Along with my Ritualist-only armor and sideskills, I am very tough to take down under normal circumstances.
AND I get to laugh at my crazy drunken animations.
Note that this is just ONE of my favorite builds, I love healing and spirit spamming as well. We all know that spirit spammers are effective. I've grouped with a great Ritualist Minion Master as well (and would love to know how he did it). I bet that, with some experimentation, I could even make a decent Ritualist tank. I have four or five builds that vary, depending on the situation (and I REALLY wish there was a simple "spec swap" button that you could use in town, haha). This is just a fun build that I use when the group has enough healing power or another spirit spammer to help deal some damage. My versatility is, as I said earlier, one of the reasons I love my Ritualist, and that versatility does not come with a "MUST USE SPAWNING POWER" price tag.
Thanks for reading. I meant to stick my build in another thread for discussion, I think I'll do that now that I've written it all up.
It just fits here because it doesn't require spawning power.
mega_jamie
Quote:
Originally Posted by morimoto
also, i dont feel a minion bomber is a good build for a rit. the spawning attribute makes minions and spirits stronger. why in the world then would you want to kill them off? a rit gets nothing when minions die (unlike a necro). i would think a rit would want his/her minions to live. i mean, that is what the spawning attribute does....it gives minions and spirits more 4% more life per point.
1) A channeling build, or indeed the already popular 55 Rit does not use spawning, since spirits are not necessary entirely.
2) I play a Rit with skills bounced around Spawning / Restor and Communing, but i see the point, and sometimes do indeed switch to a channeling build for damage dealing, as for sintance, killing Shiro.
3) Think outside the box, a hard concept for some people, but you say theres no gain from killing the minoins and spirits? the spell effects ALL minions and spirits, so if your playing a channeling build and that spell, plus have no MM in your party (or important Ranger Spirits) then you can cast it knowing that after 30 seconds your enemy MM is messed over. Just throwing an offensive use for the spell out there.