I must be dreaming...

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

02 Jun 2006 at 06:56 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Not if diversion disables the inspired hex that is being used to try and remove it. From what I remember, diversion will whack inspired to +50s recharge and be gone, and inspired will swish through empty air.

Of course that assumes diversion is the only hex on you and therefore inspired has nothing to remove and eats + recharge. If you have another hex inspired can take off, then youll get the standard 20s other skill. I think. This is correct. Inspired needs to change into a hex to avoid the diversion.

Eaimirth Etaivella

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seekers of the Apocalypse

02 Jun 2006 at 07:26 - 82

I'm pretty sure running against a "hex heavy build" like Hella suggested we could find ourselves another hex.

Beat_Go_Stick

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Jun 2006 at 16:34 - 83

Hey Avarre,

You are (without a doubt) a better overall Mesmer than I since it's probably in my 2nd or 3rd least used slot. I would be curious to see you run your standard E-denial build for a while with the one change of using AL in the place of your elite skill. Maybe tweak Fast Casting so it lasts longer, but basically just Random/Team Arena it a bit and use it like you would a second Diversion that only works on casters.

I know my team build works (and I couldn't get a anyone to help me test out Equinox last night because my friends suck

) but I would think that even just the combination of AL, Diversion, and standard e-denial would be a devastating combination. Even with a medium-high rank in Fast Cast and a high rank in Dom, that's around 12 seconds of severe harassment right there where the enemy can either choose exhaustion or a darkened skill for a minute.

You seem to have significant skill using Mesmer in PvP from the sound of your posts...give it a try and let us know what you think

-Billy

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Jun 2006 at 18:11 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

An inspired on each monk. Augmenting energy and hex removal.

Congrats. You remove one hex and then you've got your Monks waiting at least 20 seconds to remove another.

Quote: A remove hex on a mesmer with MoR. You really need a recharge shorter than 7 seconds? Why bring Mantra of Recovery?

Quote: A veil on an emo - maintained nature synergises well with running. If your Emo is a flaggot...whom are they maintaing veil on? Themselves? Yeah. Self hex removal there man.

Quote:

There you go, four characters, all with viable hex removals. That's not counting the potential of CoP on the monks It's not that viable.

You're disabling your Monk's team hex removal for at least 20 seconds each time they use it.

Your Mesmer is blowing an Elite slot on MoR...and I should hope their skill bar actually necessitates using MoR. Otherwise, that hex removal is even worse than I thought.

The Emo's hex removal is severely limited by range--especially if they're the flaggot.

Quote:

And why exactly is Holy Veil a CoP like self hex removal only? Is your Emo really able to remove hexes on your team mates, or is he or she often either too far out of range to cast it? And for that matter, consider when the battle is a bit too far from the flagstand for maintained enchants. When the Emo goes to recap the flagstand, what's going to happen? Holy Veil is going to vanish due to the distance.

You want to know why Holy Veil is a CoP-like self hex removal? It can barely do jackshit if you use it on teammates. Especially if the character carrying Holy Veil will very often be having to maintain it on multiple characters, as well as themselves for when they have to be a flaggot.

You posted your four characters, with what hex removal they've got and sure enough...it's total crap, just like I expected. lol

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

02 Jun 2006 at 21:48 - 85

seems like langor could be good on a WoH monk if you can cover well and perhaps drain/shatter enchant first.

Could also be pretty funny on a shock warrior or a hands/breeze wammo ... xD

Or a touch ranger ... hahahhahahhahahaha *ahem*

I havent tried it but it seems like its probably got uses.

Themis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

LcB

Mo/Me

02 Jun 2006 at 23:12 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by frickaline

Or a touch ranger ... hahahhahahhahahaha *ahem* Excellent !!!

Pity they're skills....

Beat_Go_Stick

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Jun 2006 at 23:12 - 87

Touch Ranger uses skills, not spells

Anyone test what AL does to skills that already cause exhaustion? I'd guess nothing based on the skill description but you never know in Guild Wars until you try it :P

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

02 Jun 2006 at 23:36 - 88

yeah but some of those marked as skills STILL fall victim to backfire for some reason (either wallow or agony or perhaps both ... both if I remember rightly)

and oob .... and life siphon ....

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

02 Jun 2006 at 23:44 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

EDIT: And Hella, how freakish is it that we're agreeing on something? It's only happened what, once before? lol

I carefully skipped your post to avoid confrontation but got caught on this line, so I went back and reread it.

Shackwrack still owns Assassins, tho!

But yea, I do agree with Avarre:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre Blessed Light and Expel hexes, the two elites you mentioned, are very viable and used already in some builds, expel on a mesmer, blessed on a blessed light monk. However, same way even the most hardcore anti-ench skill (Order of Apostasy that is) can't destroy a mass enchant build, neither Expell Hexes, nor Blessed Light will destroy a hex heavy build. They sure will make it hell of a lot harder but nothing to really sweat about. A single Necro Hex Master can pretty much overwhelm the whole hex management of a team (Suffering and Shadow of Fear are pretty effective hex remover disablers).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

Pity they're skills.... *chuckles* we've all been there.

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

03 Jun 2006 at 01:17 - 90

heh you guys need to double check....

they may SAY skills but it doesnt mean they behave as such ^^

I know for a fact some of those "skills" can be backfired, I tested it in skirmish with a guildie. I imagine they can be langored as well tho I havent tried that yet.

Go try it and let us know

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Jun 2006 at 01:28 - 91

I have played a touch rangers and have had people backfire me. It does nothing...

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

03 Jun 2006 at 01:43 - 92

It only worked on 2 out of the 4 skills they use. you might not use those 2. Plus, you might not even notice, since you will heal right through it.

Its not to say that my guildie couldnt have been mistaken about it when I backfired him in that skirmish, but ...... If you havent tested it specifically, you havent checked. ^^

Eaimirth Etaivella

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seekers of the Apocalypse

03 Jun 2006 at 03:48 - 93

Funny skill that really kills touch rangers is blackout...of course no one carries that though.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

03 Jun 2006 at 03:50 - 94

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Funny skill that really kills touch rangers is blackout...of course no one carries that though. Speaking of which, so does Diversion.

BaconSoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

*Somewhere Under The Rainbow*

Leo

Me/

03 Jun 2006 at 04:06 - 95

Now why are we diverting back into the diversion v.s. blackout arguement. I beleive we came to the conclusion that both are viable and went on with Languor arguements...

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Jun 2006 at 04:34 - 96

Quote:

However, same way even the most hardcore anti-ench skill (Order of Apostasy that is) can't destroy a mass enchant build, neither Expell Hexes, nor Blessed Light will destroy a hex heavy build. They sure will make it hell of a lot harder but nothing to really sweat about. A single Necro Hex Master can pretty much overwhelm the whole hex management of a team (Suffering and Shadow of Fear are pretty effective hex remover disablers). Suffering and Shadow of fear can be ignored if there are more dangerous hexes. Once one of those goes up, a quick expel and it's not there anymore. If the enemy piles hexes, and you have convert on a char...

Remove hex is often brought on mesmers (more likely to be expel now though), and MoR helps with the recharge but that's not the purpose of it, the purpose is for spells like diversion and shame. Nice that you ignored me though, Siren, I posted more than 4 possibilities that are viable.

Eaimirth Etaivella

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seekers of the Apocalypse

03 Jun 2006 at 05:22 - 97

Expel hexes is now the "anti-hex" and I suspect alot of mesmers to be running that now; and it will greatly destroy hex based builds plowing right through them-covers and all.

I mentioned blackout because touch rangers have to "touch" you; therefore one of blackout's key disadvantages is voided. By no means do I want to get into a bo vs diversion arguement again; had my fair share of those this month anyway. For those wishing to do that just read another thread; there are tons of them.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Jun 2006 at 06:37 - 98

Expell Hexes is definitely something to keep in mind. It has a tremendous power to destroy hex/cover hex combos. However, in a hex heavy build (with a min of 10-12 different hexes being constantly spread around), Expell Hexes won't have as much of an impact.

Expell Hexes can't stop a Necro spamming Life Siphon/Faintheartedness/Parasitic Bond/Suffering under OoB- the ability of such a build to quickly recover lost hexes and sustain itself over time is simply too much for Expell Hexes to handle. And Convert Hexes is a ridiculous skill. I'm srry to say so but it is- waste of nrg, horrible recharge, plus for a Hex Master it doesn't matter if 1 target gets converted- he spams hexes all over the enemy team covering multiple targets with multiple layers of hexes very rapidly. The cumulative effect of a Hex Master is what matters- provides massive party-wide degen and overwhelms enermy hex management, so important hexes can be used where necessary w/o worrying about hex removal and the likes.

And it is extremely unlikely that anyone will actually keep track of what hex goes where. I have noticed for example that monks aim for hexes that turn the whole bar purple (degen hexes). It's a psychological thing- makes the hex look dangerous. Parasitic Bond is among other things a great fake hex to use on a target, so that Monks exhaust their anti-hex options.

I'm a great fan of hexes- I thoroughly enjoy playing any hex build (cept Diversion btw, I need my target to wriggle in hex pain not simply suffer :-)) and I can tell you there is tricks of the trade. I am by no means neglecting hex management. The point that I am making is:

Much like Migraine, Arcane Languor is most likely to find a place in a hex heavy build.

That's all. You won't see it tossed in an energy denial build (like Diversion frequently is), because it's an elite (and among other things this makes fast recharge and chaining much harder) and it requires heavy hex back-up.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

03 Jun 2006 at 13:39 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaconSoda

Now why are we diverting back into the diversion v.s. blackout arguement. I beleive we came to the conclusion that both are viable and went on with Languor arguements... Because we can't blackout into the Diversion vs Blackout argument?

...sorry. I can't resist lame puns. >_>

Though Arcane Languor will be used in hex-heavy builds, I can see it still being used in e-denial, particularly if the player is able to work a hex-heavy e-denial build. I have a feeling it's definitely possible. Probably fool around with it later today.

frickaline

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quest Of Ages

03 Jun 2006 at 13:44 - 100

edit: ok ... not only am I an idiot but my guildie is a moron also. When we tested this,at a dead standstill in a 2 person skirmish, he thought that the life sac he took from those skills was the backfire dmg. Apparently he didn't look for the "backfire" dmg message you get on your screen. So as Gilda Radner would say .... nevermind!

But I tried out langor just a little bit yesterday and felt that it still didn't last long enough. If you think about it it lasts not much longer than diversion but with a little exhaustion as a consequence rather than a skill loss.

I just seems like people will just wait for it to time out if someone can't remove it from them, or perhaps cast if they really need to. Way too many options out of it ...

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

03 Jun 2006 at 16:13 - 101

Siddious

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Knights Of The Rising Sun

03 Jun 2006 at 21:19 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Yea, you know, I am a bit disappointed with the skill progression. It was announced as a 1...8, which ANet standards means 1...8 over 12, implying 12 gets 8 seconds. As it appears it's 1...8 over 16 which is alrite... still 3 sec buff to the max but it could've been better. If this is true then it has really put me off the skill. Its basically no better than it was before, very dissapointed. Stolen Speed is also awful now as it has a new skill description. All in all.... not too happy ANET

Eaimirth Etaivella

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seekers of the Apocalypse

03 Jun 2006 at 22:39 - 103

Couldn't care less about AL which most of you already know; maybe if it could loop itself then it would be interesting. Maybe if it was AoE but no and no.

Hella Good

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

None, free and clear

04 Jun 2006 at 00:37 - 104

Well, it's not like a huge deal but I do feel cheated by the announcement and the actual skill progression. I was thinking that I would get like 7s with about 10 in FC, and it's only 6. I mean, it's not a bit deal. Stolen Speed just got revamped. It is now a great cover hex, and a great opening hex to use to unload a whole bunch of hexes on target. It's now so spammable that I couldn't care less if it gets removed and I can quickly apply on multiple targets. It was kind of better when it worked like Siphon and they should probably just have fixed the whole FC/Stolen Speed which calculates 1st thing, but I'll give it a shot as is.

Eaimirth Etaivella

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Seekers of the Apocalypse

04 Jun 2006 at 00:40 - 105

Yet to try SS; could you in ept obtain instant cast spells?

Dragannia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

Me/N

04 Jun 2006 at 01:40 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

fallot

I'm the king

Join Date: Nov 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore

04 Jun 2006 at 06:22 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

It was announced as a 1...8, which ANet standards means 1...8 over 12, implying 12 gets 8 seconds. ANet lists skills as 1...15.

Zoo X

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

04 Jun 2006 at 12:51 - 108

at my guild we run a balance build, with just one mesmer, i play the mesmer, and i like to play AL, cant remenber how many points i do add into fast casting now, but AL last 7 seconds, well played with, diversion, shame, and blackout is a pain for any monk, as far as i belive.
i do agree with many of you that maybe, just maybe, a few monks around dont know what AL does and maybe they cast under the efect of AL, personally, i could care less, if the team cant remove the hex at the monk, the monk still can cast , np, however, will be punish for casting,i guess AL and Diversion do follow the same principle, you dont expect a good monk, to cast under Diversion, same goes for AL, however, if they are maybe force to do it, they will be punish for it. a well cordination with the rest of your team , does bring those situtations into the game, and a gvg, normally last a few minutes to make it posible.
at the end, i imagine, depends of each one of us, the mesmers, to decide if we find it more/less usefull than any other elite skill, around, maybe your team ask you to bring expel hexes or anyother skill....persoanally, i do belive AL 10 mana 1 secs casting 15 recharge, is a very interesting skill right now.