Droks Runs - The Facts
Alias_X
Recently, running to Droks, I have been what I call "scammed" out of my money. Someone will join the party, be AFK throughout the run, then come back at the end, and never pay me. I PM the player saying "Why didn't you pay me?" or "If you don't pay me, be warned: you will be reported."
So I take screenshots, and send an email to report the player. I add the players name to my friends list, even though he/she will appear offline because he/she has ignored me, which I know because when I try to message him/her, it says "ingored." Later, when that player scams more people and has to add them to his ignore list, and he cleans out the old people, I see him appear online on my friends list. This has happened numerous times.
I would like an official response from Anet.
If a player doesn't pay someone who ran him, is that a bannable or suspendable offense?
What then, if the runner doesn't refund players if he doesn't make it completely to Droks, and they have already payed him/her money?
I know it is hard to draw a line on acceptable and not acceptable, because there is no contract between the runner and party, but please give me an official response.
So I take screenshots, and send an email to report the player. I add the players name to my friends list, even though he/she will appear offline because he/she has ignored me, which I know because when I try to message him/her, it says "ingored." Later, when that player scams more people and has to add them to his ignore list, and he cleans out the old people, I see him appear online on my friends list. This has happened numerous times.
I would like an official response from Anet.
If a player doesn't pay someone who ran him, is that a bannable or suspendable offense?
What then, if the runner doesn't refund players if he doesn't make it completely to Droks, and they have already payed him/her money?
I know it is hard to draw a line on acceptable and not acceptable, because there is no contract between the runner and party, but please give me an official response.
Aera
It's something you will have to live with it. Anet will probably do nothing about it, even if there is proof. It's the risk you take when running...
Big Tony
I never heard about not paying for a run being a ban-able offense. Anet doesnt seem to mind running in Tyria and Cantha has all the locked gates to prevent it. I doubt they'll do anything to help you out, Alias X.
mushi
Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.
Eviance
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushi
Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.
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But alas I doubt anet will do anything about either. They seem to be a part of the game that we are forced to live with likea plague. @OP Sorry for your loss. =/
generik
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushi
Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.
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Stabber
Offtopic: is the Beacons Perch->Droknar's Forge still a popular route? As in, can you still find several people seeking runners at any time of the day?
Mustache Mayhem
used to run this for money- what I do is make them show the money up front and they pay half at snakes and then zone into grenths halfway down to pay the second half- too many scams at rankor/droks
Don Zardeone
People don't run to Droks for armour anymore. Lions Arch has endgame armour too now (if you take the boat to cantha from lions arch).
Still, the southern Shiverpeaks is where the elite skills are.
So people still go there to have a startingpoint for elite skill cap runs.
Still, the southern Shiverpeaks is where the elite skills are.
So people still go there to have a startingpoint for elite skill cap runs.
Tickle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem
used to run this for money- what I do is make them show the money up front and they pay half at snakes and then zone into grenths halfway down to pay the second half- too many scams at rankor/droks
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Caleb
This is when having customers that prepay in full becomes extremely beneficial.
Big Tony
Asking people to pay upfront is a little too similar to a scam itself. Many would rather go elsewhere than have the possibility of someone running off (no pun intended) with their hard earned gold. Mustache Mayhem has the best idea of having people pay in thirds or at each zone.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tickle
This is probably the most effective way of handling the run and also the players money. If one does not pay I normally refund the money given to me and tell them who didn't pay and I'll be at Beacons if anyone would like to be run. Normally at the mention of the players name who tries to scam is enough of a warning that the other party members either, a) preassure him to pay. Or b) the scammer leaves and I'll continue the run. If neither of those happens then I'll map back to Beacons for those that really wish to make it to droknars. I know its a hardarsed approach but for security after been scammed a few times I also think its the proper course of events.
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Don Zardeone
Someone had a good idea a while back.
Imagine you're a runner and you run several people. Asking for the money right away isn't always a good idea because you can be called a scammer then.
What you can do instead is ask for collateral.
The person who wants to be run has to give an armourpart to the runner. A piece of armour is worthless to the runner but it is worth a lot to the guy who is getting run (unless it's starter armour... obviously).
After the run, the guy can buy back his piece of armour for the amount that the run cost him.
This probably won't always work in the droks run but it is ok for desert runs.
Imagine you're a runner and you run several people. Asking for the money right away isn't always a good idea because you can be called a scammer then.
What you can do instead is ask for collateral.
The person who wants to be run has to give an armourpart to the runner. A piece of armour is worthless to the runner but it is worth a lot to the guy who is getting run (unless it's starter armour... obviously).
After the run, the guy can buy back his piece of armour for the amount that the run cost him.
This probably won't always work in the droks run but it is ok for desert runs.
Evilsod
Would you risk giving your armour to someone? Theres always the outside chance they'll err7 or lose connectivity. Besides, most people who need runs to Droknars are still wearing Pre-searing armour. Do you think they care if you don't give it em back? They're going to droks to buy some more for christ sake.
jummeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Zardeone
People don't run to Droks for armour anymore. Lions Arch has endgame armour too now (if you take the boat to cantha from lions arch).
Still, the southern Shiverpeaks is where the elite skills are. So people still go there to have a startingpoint for elite skill cap runs. |
Shantel Span
As both a runner and a runnee, I find that Droks runners:
- Have a 50/50 chance of getting scammed. So I offer them 4k total (1k more than the typical fee) - but 1k at Snake, 1k at Rankor, and the rest upon arrival. This can weed out the scammers.
- Have a 1/5 chance of getting someone competent that can do it routinely. -_-
As a Runner:
- Show money up front, either in the town or just after you go out the door,
- Make sure that the payment times are clear and understood,
- Be friendly and courteous even when dealing with a scammer/afk'er - this nets you brownie points. Brownie points = reputation and tips.
- Have a 50/50 chance of getting scammed. So I offer them 4k total (1k more than the typical fee) - but 1k at Snake, 1k at Rankor, and the rest upon arrival. This can weed out the scammers.
- Have a 1/5 chance of getting someone competent that can do it routinely. -_-
As a Runner:
- Show money up front, either in the town or just after you go out the door,
- Make sure that the payment times are clear and understood,
- Be friendly and courteous even when dealing with a scammer/afk'er - this nets you brownie points. Brownie points = reputation and tips.
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
Originally Posted by jummeth
I thought you need to be ascended to take the boat.
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eternal pho
I think you've gotten it the opposite way..when someone is reported regarding forge runs, it's the runner that gets reported, not the customer.
lord_shar
As a Droks runner, I've reported deliquent passengers before, but their names never disappear from my "friends" list, so I assume that they are never punished for non-payment. Most passenger scammers usually bail at Camp Rankor when asked for partial payment. Given this info, anyone asking to be runned from Camp Rankor to Droknars forge has a good chance of being such a scammer. So, I never run them.
tear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Ya I think it said all ascended chars can get the quest and take the boat. Of course ya never know because they also say you have to be ascended to get into UW/FoW. When I brought my rit over I asked the ppl in ToA if I had to ascend my ritualist to get into FoW/UW. Monstrously pissed off for some reason, they all allcapsed a big "YES!!" and some of em even pmed me calling me a noob. 2 minutes later I was in the FoW cheesin' it up with a group. I think you do have to be ascended to pay grenth, but certainly not to just jump into a group and go in.
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Angelica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb The Pontiff
This is when having customers that prepay in full becomes extremely beneficial.
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Never again I only trust my guildies.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tear
You have to be ascended unless you're from Cantha.
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Actually, you have to be Ascended either way. Canthan characters, however, must complete the Closer to the Stars "ascension" rather that the Tyrian Crystal Desert ascension.
Nahpui Quarter = Doppleganger, relatively speaking.
death fuzzy
my lvl 18 ranger born in tyria is NOT ascended and its in Kaineng centre right now.
The furthest point i got on that char is droknars forge just to get my 1.5 armour.
add lamented death if you need proof and when i log on ill prove it to you.
(although I cant prove that i was born in tyria, I guarantee you that im not lying)
The furthest point i got on that char is droknars forge just to get my 1.5 armour.
add lamented death if you need proof and when i log on ill prove it to you.
(although I cant prove that i was born in tyria, I guarantee you that im not lying)
Navaros
If runners en masse would stop trusting strangers, then this wouldn't be a problem.
Make it clear that runners are providing the needed service, so collect all your money in the last zone before any outpost.
Someone doesn't wanna pay, then give everyone their money back and start again without the griefer/likely scammer.
If I'm running someone somewhere, no way am I gonna accept payment after the destination is reached. Tried that too many times already, often only to be scammed.
The honor system doesn't work. So don't let it fubar your running service.
Make it clear that runners are providing the needed service, so collect all your money in the last zone before any outpost.
Someone doesn't wanna pay, then give everyone their money back and start again without the griefer/likely scammer.
If I'm running someone somewhere, no way am I gonna accept payment after the destination is reached. Tried that too many times already, often only to be scammed.
The honor system doesn't work. So don't let it fubar your running service.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by death fuzzy
my lvl 18 ranger born in tyria is NOT ascended and its in Kaineng centre right now.
The furthest point i got on that char is droknars forge just to get my 1.5 armour. add lamented death if you need proof and when i log on ill prove it to you. (although I cant prove that i was born in tyria, I guarantee you that im not lying) |
Facial Features FTW.
I brought my Necromancer to Kaineng when he was level.. 3, I think? Not an uncommon sight, really.
Vaslehellet
Quote:
Originally Posted by death fuzzy
my lvl 18 ranger born in tyria is NOT ascended and its in Kaineng centre right now.
The furthest point i got on that char is droknars forge just to get my 1.5 armour. add lamented death if you need proof and when i log on ill prove it to you. (although I cant prove that i was born in tyria, I guarantee you that im not lying) |
I also brought several of my characters from the Prophecies campaign to Cantha.
You do NOT need to be ascanded to get to Cantha from Lion's Arch, you don't even
have to be level 20. Any character can travel from Lion's Arch if they do a very simple quest.
CyberNigma
I believe it was Jeff Strain (could've been Alex Weekes) that said they definitely wanted you to report anyone samming a runner or a runner scamming someone. The person said they were intrigued by the idea at ArenaNet as long as there was no abuse (where abuse was mentioned to be scammers in the interview). Whether they have time to do something about it is anyone's guess. Our idea at my guild was for them to create some kind of eschrow system, say through the Xunlai agents, where the runnee agrees to a 'contract' to get to point B and in exchange gives x amount of money to the runner if he gets there. This money is given to an npc who either places it in the runners storage when person B gets there, or allows either party to cancel the transaction (in town) before getting there. For multiple city runs it would have to be broken down per city (a new agreement each city), but for the droks run there would just be an agreement for Perch to Rancor and another for Rancor to Drok.
Jetdoc
A-Net has never acknowledged "running" as a legitimate transaction, so I highly doubt that reporting them will net you anything.
It's basically the same as a monk that wants to be paid for doing THK with you reporting you at the end because you chose not to pay him. Charging someone for playing the game (i.e. versus simply trading items) is generally not worth A-Net's time, IMO.
It's basically the same as a monk that wants to be paid for doing THK with you reporting you at the end because you chose not to pay him. Charging someone for playing the game (i.e. versus simply trading items) is generally not worth A-Net's time, IMO.
CyberNigma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
A-Net has never acknowledged "running" as a legitimate transaction, so I highly doubt that reporting them will net you anything.
It's basically the same as a monk that wants to be paid for doing THK with you reporting you at the end because you chose not to pay him. Charging someone for playing the game (i.e. versus simply trading items) is generally not worth A-Net's time, IMO. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://guildwars.gameamp.com/guildwars/gwInterview
GameAmp:
I've always loved to see what "roles" gamers invent that were not intended by the developers upon the release of the game. One of the more popular of these roles is the game's growing population of runners that allow low level players to "hitch a ride" to the higher level zones in the game. The most popular run is obviously the Lornar's Pass run that allows a player to reach Droknor's Forge through Beacon's Pearch with the aid of a competent runner. Running has turned into a fun mini-game for a portion of the game's population but it also gives the ability for low level players to reach content they should not be permitted to access. It would be a shame to make Lornar's Pass un-runnable but "twinking" low level characters is often something that the developers address with an iron fist. Are precautions being taken to put level requirements on some of the higher level zone portals or perhaps even the armor purchased at the higher stages of the game without completely crippling the runner's ability to be unique? Guild Wars: Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us. There are two ways in which it would not be ok: " If someone scams players by taking money and not making the run, they become a nuisance factor rather than a clever entrepreneur, and we would take action on that account. " If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this. In other words, to the extent that a practice like "running" or taking a shortcut might negatively affect other players, we'll be taking a look at it very carefully. If there's a lot of abuse of lower-level characters (those who are playing through the missions) by those who are taking the shortcut, we'll address it. I note that we did not choose to address the matter with last night's major game update, and I believe that is because the possible problems are not evident to such a degree that we need to make an amendment. But I just spoke with Lead Designer James Phinney, and he assured me that we will continue to assess the situation and we will come up with solutions if the scales tip towards the negative. |
Jetdoc
I agree with not using the word "never", but the quote above actually validates my point...
This quote above specifically says that if a player "promises a run" and doesn't deliver, that the situation is equivalent of scamming that person (because it is basically stealing from that player...getting gold but not giving anything in return).
However, they say that they are "okay" with people running and power leveling, but nowhere do they say that it is a legitimate, enforceable transaction that they would be willing to deal with.
That was my reference above - I highly doubt that A-Net would ban anyone for not paying for a run because, from everything that I've read/found on the subject, they do not view runs as enforceable (i.e. legitimate) transactions.
Quote:
Guild Wars: Wanna know a secret? We put in the ability to make such runs as an intended design element. Sure we could prevent it, but it's not our objective to do so. If people want to power-level a friend, or even turn offering a running service into a cash-raising profession, it's really ok with us. There are two ways in which it would not be ok: " If someone scams players by taking money and not making the run, they become a nuisance factor rather than a clever entrepreneur, and we would take action on that account. " If we find that players are using runners to develop a character that is then abusive in PvP play by virtue of their higher-level acquisitions (particularly armor) we will need to take steps to prevent this. |
However, they say that they are "okay" with people running and power leveling, but nowhere do they say that it is a legitimate, enforceable transaction that they would be willing to deal with.
That was my reference above - I highly doubt that A-Net would ban anyone for not paying for a run because, from everything that I've read/found on the subject, they do not view runs as enforceable (i.e. legitimate) transactions.
Gwenhywar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
When I brought my rit over I asked the ppl in ToA if I had to ascend my ritualist to get into FoW/UW. (...) I think you do have to be ascended to pay grenth, but certainly not to just jump into a group and go in.
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Don Zardeone
What are you guys talking about?
You DO NOT have to be ascended to bring Canthan/Tyrian chars to the other side.
My monk wasn't ascended, I brought him to cantha to level up using the fedex quests and THEN I ascended.
My canthan ranger left the noob isle, ran to kaineng and steamed off to Tyra WITHOUT EVER DOING ANY closer to the stars stuff.
Seriously, I have a level 13 Canthan running around Beetletun that doesn't even have naphui mapped.
And besides, we need more runners in Cantha.
Yeah.. there are locked gates but those are only in the ghetto. In Kurzick/Luxon territory there is only 1 locked gate and that's the one that requires you to do the befriending and gate opening quest. No other gates at all, just a lot of outposts.
Other than that, deseperate people are spending hours upon hours trying to find pugs that will "go to the next place" or want to do any type of random quest nobody else wants to do.
After typing LFP for aspenwood for 5 days I gave up and henched it myself (which was easy but not everyone can do that).
I got lazy on my monk and just paid some ranger to run me to places.
Examples of runs in Kurzick territory:
- HzH --> Lutgardis
- HzH --> Brauer
- HzH --> Shrine
- HzH --> aspenwood
- HzH --> jade quarry
For those who have befriended you can probably do these runs too:
- Vasburg --> some library place
- Vasburg --> Amatz Basin
- Vasburg --> unwaking waters
Lazy people are looking for runners there.
If we all start running them from HzH to the other places then they'll progress much faster (It seems the average player needs about 3 months to complete factions, we're all leet for completing in 1-2 days)
Once they're all ran to faction "farming" places, they'll do their befriending and Vasburg will start to get a decent population (currently about 2 people in Vasburg while Maatu keep has several districts).
So... WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
GOGOGO
You DO NOT have to be ascended to bring Canthan/Tyrian chars to the other side.
My monk wasn't ascended, I brought him to cantha to level up using the fedex quests and THEN I ascended.
My canthan ranger left the noob isle, ran to kaineng and steamed off to Tyra WITHOUT EVER DOING ANY closer to the stars stuff.
Seriously, I have a level 13 Canthan running around Beetletun that doesn't even have naphui mapped.
And besides, we need more runners in Cantha.
Yeah.. there are locked gates but those are only in the ghetto. In Kurzick/Luxon territory there is only 1 locked gate and that's the one that requires you to do the befriending and gate opening quest. No other gates at all, just a lot of outposts.
Other than that, deseperate people are spending hours upon hours trying to find pugs that will "go to the next place" or want to do any type of random quest nobody else wants to do.
After typing LFP for aspenwood for 5 days I gave up and henched it myself (which was easy but not everyone can do that).
I got lazy on my monk and just paid some ranger to run me to places.
Examples of runs in Kurzick territory:
- HzH --> Lutgardis
- HzH --> Brauer
- HzH --> Shrine
- HzH --> aspenwood
- HzH --> jade quarry
For those who have befriended you can probably do these runs too:
- Vasburg --> some library place
- Vasburg --> Amatz Basin
- Vasburg --> unwaking waters
Lazy people are looking for runners there.
If we all start running them from HzH to the other places then they'll progress much faster (It seems the average player needs about 3 months to complete factions, we're all leet for completing in 1-2 days)
Once they're all ran to faction "farming" places, they'll do their befriending and Vasburg will start to get a decent population (currently about 2 people in Vasburg while Maatu keep has several districts).
So... WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!
GOGOGO
Nivryx
You want to know my secret? Write down the names of everyone in the party at the beginning of the run and check them off for each payment they make, for drok runs i understand there are only 2 payments (usually), but for desert runs (which i do) this is useful. I then have a record of everyones name and if someone leaves mid run then i write their name down again on my official " 'Another Word for Poopie' List" Then you remember last night how you finished that mission 5 minutes before you had to get off and had nothing to do? ...Well, just turn to your poopie list, add someone to your friend list and see if their online and have fun! I've actually convinced some of them into helping me on missions and quests before, its rather amusing really. If they don't pay you, then make them pay! when they ask about who you are, just tell them something that almost anyone can relate to like 'I monked for you the other day.' It also helps to write down their proffession so you don't say something like that to a monk. I'll leave it at that, there are certainly more you can do with them but i'll let you use your imaginations
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwenhywar
You DO have to be ascended to enter UW/FoW, not just pay for the entrance. However, Nahpui Quarter mission counts as ascension for Canthan characters (all the talks about "getting closer to the stars" hint at that), that's why your Rit could enjoy FoW.
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Leddy
I'm a lazyass player and I completed Factions in no more than 25 hours.
xiv
i use to be a drok runner myself i did drok runs everyday for about 4 months then they started doin the power nerfs and making me mad neways scammers r the worse. whenever i need a run i always tip and if u ever saw neone who ran me i do tip good. ive even been known to tip double because i know what its like to be a runner. (the runners life is the life for me) lol neways on the forge run i use to make them pay 3/4 in snakde dance then the rest in rankor. i would always make sure that at rankor they had to pay 1k and not nemore because u can easily hitch rides form rankor for 1k to droks. but u should nvr run those peeps because u know there scammers. the only thing i hated was when scammers did not pay and at snake dance they acted afk and so on well i always hated running the first part. the huddles avs and golems at the top of the hill got me every now and then and it always made me mad having to do that over for the same peeps because yeah. i think the best way is to return the money and remake a group. unless other people r willing to pay. but u should NVR run people for under the set amount.
Citadel Runner
If I run a PUG group and I decide to charge, if anyone does not pay, I turn around, pay the players that paid me back, and map back to Beacons to start over. This is quite satisfying as the potential scammer or phoney afk-er never expects it. Once you know how to get through Lornars fairly well, its worth it to simply map back and dump the trash.
Sk8tborderx
The way I prevent scammers is to make sure they all know to pay at Snakes and Grenths, I also make sure they understand that if even 1 person does not pay at the predetermined spots then I will map back and will run the people who paid again.
alen
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Ya I think it said all ascended chars can get the quest and take the boat. Of course ya never know because they also say you have to be ascended to get into UW/FoW. When I brought my rit over I asked the ppl in ToA if I had to ascend my ritualist to get into FoW/UW. Monstrously pissed off for some reason, they all allcapsed a big "YES!!" and some of em even pmed me calling me a noob. 2 minutes later I was in the FoW cheesin' it up with a group. I think you do have to be ascended to pay grenth, but certainly not to just jump into a group and go in.
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Edit: Ops, I didnt notice that this was already said :-P