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Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
At the moment there are spammers in just about every district, that "wizard" would be stretched pretty thin if he were assigned an entire outpost to himself.
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Local chat is doomed -_-
whitedragon
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by inscribed
Those of you arguing against the local chat spam have to realize, you are the ones with the problem. The sellers certainly don't have the problem here, they are, after all, getting their stuff sold. The buyers don't have a problem. The average user does not have a problem, they simply accept the spam as part of what you would hear in town. It is you, the select few, who choose to have the problem because "oh my god! he is using a local chat for something that belongs in trade chat! ban him!". No one else has a problem with finding groups or carrying on conversations. I don't have a problem keeping up with what's being said in Lion's Arch Dis 1, and there isn't much that is worse than that. You are the minority here, not us defending the spam on local chat.
Spamming on local chat works. It works better than any other method currently at the player's disposal. And, quite frankly, it are these spammers that are CREATING the economy of Guild Wars. You should be thanking them. Players will continue to use it until a better method is introduced. This is really all there is to this conversation. If you don't like the spam, well, too bad. You are going to have to learn to adapt, at least until Anet decides to change things. Communities evolve, this is a result of it. For a real world scenario, imagine walking through the streets of a heavy trade area of a real world city. Imagine walking through Morroco on a Saturday afternoon. A majority of what I imagine I'd hear are peddlers trying to sell of their goods, stuff collected from all over the world. This is no different. Maybe, just maybe, if you wish real hard, Anet just might introduce that trade house, and a majority of the spam will disappear. It works in WoW, and they have a wonderful, player driven economy. |
All of it.
guppy
I have to agree.. inscribed put it all into perspective.
vinegrower
Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?
whitedragon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vinegrower
Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?
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guppy
vinegrower.. again.. its very very easy to go ahead and ignore the root of the problem. This is getting very frustrating that people don't read properly. Perhaps there is a reason behind the spamming? It is very obvious its annoying and its also obvious it won't stop by asking people to do so on these boards.
This has been explained throughout the thread continuously and keeps getting ignored. People are JUST stuck on local chat spamming and ignoring everything else. NO, it DOES NOT mean that its ok, it's just that you cannot ignore the root cause!!
Please read what inscribed wrote.. he said it very nicely.
This has been explained throughout the thread continuously and keeps getting ignored. People are JUST stuck on local chat spamming and ignoring everything else. NO, it DOES NOT mean that its ok, it's just that you cannot ignore the root cause!!
Please read what inscribed wrote.. he said it very nicely.
Vahn Roi
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Originally Posted by whitedragon
And if that 1 wizard had the power to ban it would'nt take long for him to clean up that post.
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Vahn Roi
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Originally Posted by vinegrower
Why are those of us who follow the rules being told to switch districts or shut off Local by those that refuse to follow the rules? Sure, you may find someone to buy your stuff in local, but for every 1 person that buys, you are annoying 20+ others. Do they not matter to you?
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vinegrower
do not imply that I am not reading. I understand the root. I also understand that the people spam local are making a deliberate CHOICE to do so. They are not being forced to do so, regardless of what any one says. There are other alternatives.
And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse. Yes there needs to be imporvements to trading. I'm not saying that there is no need for change. In fact, I strongly support a major over haul of the trade system. I'm just trying to point out how you people simply do not care about the annoyance that you are creating. You have the power to not be part of the local spam, but you choose to take part, and to defend those who also would like to.
And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse. Yes there needs to be imporvements to trading. I'm not saying that there is no need for change. In fact, I strongly support a major over haul of the trade system. I'm just trying to point out how you people simply do not care about the annoyance that you are creating. You have the power to not be part of the local spam, but you choose to take part, and to defend those who also would like to.
Vahn Roi
and their reasoning is sound in their own minds...which makes it worse -_-
Big Tony
So the concensus is that since the trade system is "broken" (as much as i hate to use that term), spammers refuse to try and remedy the problem in any way. Anet created a patch to keep WTB and WTS messages on the trade channel which people blatantly (and happily) bypass. The non-sellers are forced to turn off local chat and new players suffer since no one is around to answer their questions. Local chat really IS doomed if this is the logic that most players are using.
Ghull Ka
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Shut the hell up
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
QUOTE ME on my responses and make your response directly oppose mine.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
All you do is complain about how things are inconvenient for you instead of presenting an alternative that will work for both sides.
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1. Expand the ignore list to "Infinite"
2. Suppress messages sent by people on the ignore list, wherever they may be: local, trade, guild, team, alliance, emote, whisper.
That way, I can choose to add WTS local chat spammers, one by one, to my ignore list and never hear from them again; WTS local chat spammers can choose to continue to spam on local, secure in the knowledge that each time they spam may result in more people adding them to ignore; and people who don't mind it can choose to live with it.
I find it interesting that someone can say, essentially, "I know you have turned off trade channel, but I want you to see my WTS anyway, so I broadcast it on local" and somehow not consider themselves rude or selfish. I choose to turn off trade chat. Sellers acknowledge this and even use it as justification for why they "need" to WTS on local.
Nobody "needs" to sell items to other players. Ever. People "want" to sell items to other players. Since they "want" to sell items, they "choose" to spam WTS in local.
Even though ANet has, by the recent implementation of the WTS local chat filter, implied that this is not appropriate.
whitedragon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
With the number of people who spam and the number of new spammers that come in every minute coupled with the number of districts, I don't think 1 wizard would be able to keep up.
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TheMosesPHD
Well I've just mowed the backyard and it seems in that time there still hasn't been any sign of an arguement that hasn't already been sufficiently addressed by myself or another poster.
Please dont tell people to shut up - Arkantos. If I didn't care I wouldn't be spending all this time explaining the situation over and over again. It's you who don't care about the situation that the traders are in. You lack the ability to put yourself in another persons shoes. It's easy to look at the situation through your perspective because it's a very simplistic way of looking at things.
The problem isn't that the chat spam is annoying. That's the effect. The cause of the effect (the problem) is that there isn't a reasonable alternative that allows traders to reach the common passerbyer.
You have the power to observe the reason that the problem exists, but like guppy said, you're choosing to ignore the root of the problem.
Now then. I'm gonna go mow the front lawn. Let's see if a decent arguement shows up by the time I'm done.
And of course I mention again that inscribed summed it all up very well a few posts back.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by vinegrower
do not imply that I am not reading. I understand the root. I also understand that the people spam local are making a deliberate CHOICE to do so. They are not being forced to do so, regardless of what any one says. There are other alternatives.
And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse. Yes there needs to be imporvements to trading. I'm not saying that there is no need for change. In fact, I strongly support a major over haul of the trade system. I'm just trying to point out how you people simply do not care about the annoyance that you are creating. You have the power to not be part of the local spam, but you choose to take part, and to defend those who also would like to. |
The problem isn't that the chat spam is annoying. That's the effect. The cause of the effect (the problem) is that there isn't a reasonable alternative that allows traders to reach the common passerbyer.
You have the power to observe the reason that the problem exists, but like guppy said, you're choosing to ignore the root of the problem.
Now then. I'm gonna go mow the front lawn. Let's see if a decent arguement shows up by the time I'm done.
And of course I mention again that inscribed summed it all up very well a few posts back.
Vahn Roi
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Originally Posted by whitedragon
Im not saying it is a endall solution but that it will give the players the power to police themselfs (anet cant keep up with all the rule breaking). We can not rely on anet to stop the ppl who breack the rules all the time. IMO
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guppy
Big Tony, vinegrower, vahn roi.
You all agree that the trade system could use an improvement? You also all seem to believe that it is spammers that need to change. I agree that it has good intentions, but how can you ask them to do it?
They will only respond to force, and the problem is that if you ban someone for doing it, they will respond with the trade system is simply inadequate and really there aren't many options left for players. What would Anet reply to that, use the broken system and be happy?
You cannot address one half of the problem and leave the rest to linger.
Spammers won't change because nobody is ethical anymore (sadly true). I don't mean to defend them, that is what is being mis-interpreted.
"And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse."
The root of the problem CAN be fixed, and it CAN be addressed by Anet. This is what I believe the argument is. I think I have stated time and time again that it is not nice to spam in local chat, but the economy of Guild Wars would be nowhere if everyone turned off and at the same time only used the trade channel.
There ARE spammers in the trade channels too and all it does is relocate a problem with the trade system.
Why can I not argue that spamming in trade channels of the same item with the suffixes... 1 2 3 at the end of each message, should be bannable too? It is in the trade channel, and it is still spamming. No one wants to see this, and so spammers choose to use local chat so people CAN see it. You see, the root of the problem is what is causing this mess.
Spammers or no spammers, it is still a problem that if addressed WILL help the local chat.
You all agree that the trade system could use an improvement? You also all seem to believe that it is spammers that need to change. I agree that it has good intentions, but how can you ask them to do it?
They will only respond to force, and the problem is that if you ban someone for doing it, they will respond with the trade system is simply inadequate and really there aren't many options left for players. What would Anet reply to that, use the broken system and be happy?
You cannot address one half of the problem and leave the rest to linger.
Spammers won't change because nobody is ethical anymore (sadly true). I don't mean to defend them, that is what is being mis-interpreted.
"And just because we cannot do anything to fix the root of the problem, that doesn't mean that we need to make the situation worse."
The root of the problem CAN be fixed, and it CAN be addressed by Anet. This is what I believe the argument is. I think I have stated time and time again that it is not nice to spam in local chat, but the economy of Guild Wars would be nowhere if everyone turned off and at the same time only used the trade channel.
There ARE spammers in the trade channels too and all it does is relocate a problem with the trade system.
Why can I not argue that spamming in trade channels of the same item with the suffixes... 1 2 3 at the end of each message, should be bannable too? It is in the trade channel, and it is still spamming. No one wants to see this, and so spammers choose to use local chat so people CAN see it. You see, the root of the problem is what is causing this mess.
Spammers or no spammers, it is still a problem that if addressed WILL help the local chat.
TheMosesPHD
Sorry, had to delay mowing the lawn because you are clueless.
First off, you stated at the beginning that you have no interest in arguing the point with me. So then it can be assumed that nothing that is written after that statement has any worth, because it refuses to consider the important facts presented before you. Hey guess what! I'm right.
Here's my main point in this post from here on: Players selling to players drives the economy.
Expand ignore list to infinite?... You do realize that each name on your ignore list takes up server space. Giving infinite anything would fill up the servers in quite a hurry.
The ignore list already does block all messages/emotes with the exception of guild chat and alliance chat.
Nobody needs to sell items to other players eh? So...what you're saying is that there's no incentive to sell a perfect 15^50 Crystalline to a player for 400k. Instead I should just sell it to merchant for 300g right? Sounds like a great way to money! Ya and of course why would I buy a sup vigor from a player for 30k when I could buy it straight from the trader for 40k! Smart shopping is for noobs, right?
Oh and those kewl looking greens! What's the point in buying them from players when I can go around and farm each and every one that I want. It's not like it would be a better idea to maybe farm just one of them for selling or farm gold or runes or anything else, and sell what I don't need from those drops in order to get money to buy what I don't farm. No way. Doing this wouldn't waste enough of my time.
The economy is driven by player to player transactions. That's an obvious fact that you have no good reason to overlook.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghull Ka
Funny, that's exactly what I'd like WTS spammers to do.
I would do this if I had any interest in arguing the point with you. I do not. I presented precisely such an alternative in the post that you quoted, champ. 1. Expand the ignore list to "Infinite" 2. Suppress messages sent by people on the ignore list, wherever they may be: local, trade, guild, team, alliance, emote, whisper. That way, I can choose to add WTS local chat spammers, one by one, to my ignore list and never hear from them again; WTS local chat spammers can choose to continue to spam on local, secure in the knowledge that each time they spam may result in more people adding them to ignore; and people who don't mind it can choose to live with it. I find it interesting that someone can say, essentially, "I know you have turned off trade channel, but I want you to see my WTS anyway, so I broadcast it on local" and somehow not consider themselves rude or selfish. I choose to turn off trade chat. Sellers acknowledge this and even use it as justification for why they "need" to WTS on local. Nobody "needs" to sell items to other players. Ever. People "want" to sell items to other players. Since they "want" to sell items, they "choose" to spam WTS in local. Even though ANet has, by the recent implementation of the WTS local chat filter, implied that this is not appropriate. |
Here's my main point in this post from here on: Players selling to players drives the economy.
Expand ignore list to infinite?... You do realize that each name on your ignore list takes up server space. Giving infinite anything would fill up the servers in quite a hurry.
The ignore list already does block all messages/emotes with the exception of guild chat and alliance chat.
Nobody needs to sell items to other players eh? So...what you're saying is that there's no incentive to sell a perfect 15^50 Crystalline to a player for 400k. Instead I should just sell it to merchant for 300g right? Sounds like a great way to money! Ya and of course why would I buy a sup vigor from a player for 30k when I could buy it straight from the trader for 40k! Smart shopping is for noobs, right?
Oh and those kewl looking greens! What's the point in buying them from players when I can go around and farm each and every one that I want. It's not like it would be a better idea to maybe farm just one of them for selling or farm gold or runes or anything else, and sell what I don't need from those drops in order to get money to buy what I don't farm. No way. Doing this wouldn't waste enough of my time.
The economy is driven by player to player transactions. That's an obvious fact that you have no good reason to overlook.
Phades
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
There is no reasonable alternative! You can't ban people for driving the economy. Half of the GW balance system is based upon trades between players.
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All you are causing is less use of the all chat by everyone except those who are spamming. You have to realize that this is a self defeating cycle, where you are re-creating one of the biggest trade problems again in another channel.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
IT"S PINK!! The pink blends into the game while the stark white stands out. On top of that it's actually the variance between the two colors that helps your ad get noticed. If all of the ads were just in trade chat it would be harder to single out an ad in the blur of pink.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
And let me repeat this last phrase again because people don't seem to be notcing the irony here:
The people that say we should all use trade chat are the exact same people saying they frequently mute trade chat. |
Yes, they could implement something to assist people who desire to trade. In other games where there is more of a balace between resources into and out of the game world, there exist several instances of a well developed system in place to help facilitate this aspect. What truly stands for questioning is, was that ever a primary focus of the game? The introduction of greens and their relative resale prices to npc venders is really the only arument for this veiwpoint. The rest of the game dictates otherwise.
This sort of situation can easily be viewed as harrassment by either side, but only one side is basing this complication within ANET.
vinegrower
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Shut the hell up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
If I didn't care I wouldn't be spending all this time explaining the situation over and over again. It's you who don't care about the situation that the traders are in. You lack the ability to put yourself in another persons shoes. It's easy to look at the situation through your perspective because it's a very simplistic way of looking at things.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
The problem isn't that the chat spam is annoying. That's the effect. The cause of the effect (the problem) is that there isn't a reasonable alternative that allows traders to reach the common passerbyer.
You have the power to observe the reason that the problem exists, but like guppy said, you're choosing to ignore the root of the problem. |
One last point. Do you really want people that dissagree with you to "shut up?" after all, the more debates, arguements, etc that happen over this issue, the more attention it will generate, making it a higher priority for ArenaNet. If those of us who dislike the local spam, just ignoreed the issue, then it would appear that everything is running smoothly. So everyone, stop with the "shut up" crap, and keep the debate alive, but in a civil manner.
Ghull Ka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Players selling to players drives the economy.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Expand ignore list to infinite?... You do realize that each name on your ignore list takes up server space. Giving infinite anything would fill up the servers in quite a hurry.
The ignore list already does block all messages/emotes with the exception of guild chat and alliance chat. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Nobody needs to sell items to other players eh? So...what you're saying is...<sarcastic rant removed> The economy is driven by player to player transactions. That's an obvious fact that you have no good reason to overlook.
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If ANet would give me the ability to /ignore every local chat WTS spammer, then logically others would be free to choose not to /ignore them. This seems to be the perfect solution. Those who choose to participate in the ingame economy could do so, those who choose to /ignore it could do so, and everyone wins.
I fail to see how this is not the perfect solution.
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phades
Actually, most of the game balance is derived from skill usage and class combinations. Also, dictacting game balance in a realm where there are no limits to the resources through the reasoning of economy is rather amusing.
All you are causing is less use of the all chat by everyone except those who are spamming. You have to realize that this is a self defeating cycle, where you are re-creating one of the biggest trade problems again in another channel. Yes, pink sucks, so work on getting the color changed instead of trying to justify invading the other channels. You have mroe irony than that because individuals such as yourself are causing people to mute all chat as well. Trying to justify it by telling people to remove themselves from the games automatic sorting that places them in the highest district that isnt full rahter lame. You didnt bring this up specifically, but its been mixed in the pile of arguments already. Yes, they could implement something to assist people who desire to trade. In other games where there is more of a balace between resources into and out of the game world, there exist several instances of a well developed system in place to help facilitate this aspect. What truly stands for questioning is, was that ever a primary focus of the game? The introduction of greens and their relative resale prices to npc venders is really the only arument for this veiwpoint. The rest of the game dictates otherwise. This sort of situation can easily be viewed as harrassment by either side, but only one side is basing this complication within ANET. |
"Actually, most of the game balance is derived from skill usage and class combinations."
And who is it that sells and buys the items for the values that have been determined by the game balance? First off I can't buy mods from traders. I can't get the exact drops I need from killing monsters over and over again. And I cannot sell a mod, or anything for that matter, to the NPCs for their actual value. All of this must be done by player to player transaction. The game is driven by player to player transactions.
"Yes, they could implement something to assist people who desire to trade. In other games where there is more of a balace between resources into and out of the game world, there exist several instances of a well developed system in place to help facilitate this aspect. What truly stands for questioning is, was that ever a primary focus of the game? The introduction of greens and their relative resale prices to npc venders is really the only arument for this veiwpoint. The rest of the game dictates otherwise."
they. They. THEY! You're right! They, the game designers, have the potential power to change the system in order to address the problems. But we cannot change the game's mechanics and the obvious flaws within it. The only thing we can do is find a way around the flaw to keep the economy rolling.
Stabber
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Players selling to players drives the economy.
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I am not interested in your wares. To quote the great philosopher TheMosesPHD, "Shut the hell up."
guppy
Stabber, that was just a really poor flame.
Economy in a game like this still is important and has been said so previously in interviews. Sorry to say this, but you should really take your own advice at the end of your post.
Economy in a game like this still is important and has been said so previously in interviews. Sorry to say this, but you should really take your own advice at the end of your post.
Big Tony
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
The filter for WTB and WTS just isn't working....
Right now in Euro Drok District 1. Local chat is being spammed WORSE than trade chat itself with a few morons who simply cannot use the fricken trade channel. We might as well leave local to it's doomed stance and make a new channel called "Talk" at this rate >_< |
Lets talk about the real issue here. We all agree that trading in game is not as easy as it could be, yes? I'm tired of your "shut the hell up" argument because it is childish.
If Anet agreed that trade spam should be seen by everyone, do you think they would have created a trade channel? Do you think they would have implemented a way for WTS and WTB messages to go to the PROPER chat screen?
Yes, yes, I know. I'm ignoring the root of the problem. The flawed trade system. But the original point here is why bypass the trade channel? Why? The mall argument used earlier is ridiculous because people go to malls to be enticed to buy things, to see that shiny thing in the window and "window shop". Perhaps if there was a "mall" (or trade island, which the trade spammers in this thread dont seem to want to happen) for people to browse for items/mods/weapons, this would solve part of the problem.
In game economy has NOTHING to do with politeness and common courtesy. The trade channel is there for a reason. It was created with a purpose.
SO...there's a few solutions:
1. Force all spammers to use trade chat. Yeah, right, that will happen.
2. The community makes an effort to not buy from those that spam in local chat. Still wont work unless the support for such a ban was unanimous by all players.
3. Let the spammers do whatever they like. Keep it the way it is. Those with a problem can bend to the will of the spammers and avoid LA, Droks, etc completly.
or
4. Christ, Anet, stop us from arguing. Make an auction house already!
guppy
There we go 
, Thank you Big Tony for that!
, Thank you Big Tony for that!
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ghull Ka
The ingame economy is an optional feature which has been created by those who participate in it. I don't participate in it. It does not need to exist in order for me to enjoy Guild Wars.
The last time I tested, this was not true. If it is true now, then I will be thankful. However, the ignore list is nowhere near large enough to filter out the hundreds of spammers whom I would choose to filter out. Therefore, expanding it to infinite is the next logical solution. ANet has the server space to do so; they log every chat and transaction and action ingame already. Their servers can handle infinite ignore lists. The ingame economy is purely optional. I can overlook any factor of the ingame economy just as easily as I can overlook the ingame economy itself -- I do not participate in it because I choose not to (I participate in the ingame economy only insomuch as I use the NPC traders, that is to say). Since I choose not to participate in the ingame economy, I do not believe that I should be subjected to the spam that it creates. If I had my way, I would be able to /ignore every spammer in the game, even if I had to do so one at a time. If ANet would give me the ability to /ignore every local chat WTS spammer, then logically others would be free to choose not to /ignore them. This seems to be the perfect solution. Those who choose to participate in the ingame economy could do so, those who choose to /ignore it could do so, and everyone wins. I fail to see how this is not the perfect solution. |
On top of that I don't know why you're even accussing me in the first place. I rarely do any sort of selling in game at all. But just because I don't personally participate in that area of the game, I can see the problems with it, and the reasons why your simplistic approach at solving the problem can do nothing but cripple the economy which many people, obviously not you, find an exciting feature of the game.
Why is infinite ignore not the perfect solution? Other than the completely valid fact that giving every player the ability to use an infinite ammount of server space would put GW out of business in an instant, I've gone over a lot. The overall game is driven by player to player economy regardless of whether or not it drives your gaming experience. What happens if you ever do need to buy something? You've ignored the planet. And also you're not just ignoring them when they're selling, you're ignoring people always. You cutting down your supply of people to join your groups. It's already annoying to find people willing to do many non-primary quests. That has nothing to do with spam being in the way. Why would you make it even more difficult?
Vahn Roi
Even if they made the auction house, there is nothing to force these people to use it. They need something else a long with it to enforce the use of said house.
Really, how do you not see the irony in you saying such a thing?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PHD
You're not the only person in the game.
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Tainek
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=38
i see no reason to spam in the all chat, if trade takes 2 hours, and all chat takes half an hour, then this method takes 5 mins (post, check in a few days, freind buyer and wait for them to come online, simple)
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=38
i see no reason to spam in the all chat, if trade takes 2 hours, and all chat takes half an hour, then this method takes 5 mins (post, check in a few days, freind buyer and wait for them to come online, simple)
Big Tony
/cheers for Tainek
whitedragon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vahn Roi
Even if they made the auction house, there is nothing to force these people to use it. They need something else a long with it to enforce the use of said house.
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they will not stop, they will use the auction house the trade & local chat to sell there stuff, it will just give a new (option) to use.
Evilsod
Tbh the problem is quite often to do with them selling things that nobody actually wants. I sold a couple of mods today in the space of 30 minutes using the trade channel and nothing more. 10 minutes trying then inbetween chest runs for the next 20. You can still find people trying to sell the same crap that nobody actually wants 2 hours later. There IS the outside chance someone may pay a few k for the item your selling, but is it worth the wait?
You get people spamming WTSs in ToA too much, most of which people don't even want, hence the reason why they think spamming it might get it noticed... That or the item they're selling is obviously overpriced. I could've sold all 3 of my mods in the first 5 minutes if i'd took the first offer, but i was been a bit greedy... so it took me another 25 minutes and i still have 1 to sell all because i was after what? Maybe 5-10k more overall.
You get people spamming WTSs in ToA too much, most of which people don't even want, hence the reason why they think spamming it might get it noticed... That or the item they're selling is obviously overpriced. I could've sold all 3 of my mods in the first 5 minutes if i'd took the first offer, but i was been a bit greedy... so it took me another 25 minutes and i still have 1 to sell all because i was after what? Maybe 5-10k more overall.
TheMosesPHD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Big Tony
/sigh
Lets talk about the real issue here. We all agree that trading in game is not as easy as it could be, yes? I'm tired of your "shut the hell up" argument because it is childish. If Anet agreed that trade spam should be seen by everyone, do you think they would have created a trade channel? Do you think they would have implemented a way for WTS and WTB messages to go to the PROPER chat screen? Yes, yes, I know. I'm ignoring the root of the problem. The flawed trade system. But the original point here is why bypass the trade channel? Why? The mall argument used earlier is ridiculous because people go to malls to be enticed to buy things, to see that shiny thing in the window and "window shop". Perhaps if there was a "mall" (or trade island, which the trade spammers in this thread dont seem to want to happen) for people to browse for items/mods/weapons, this would solve part of the problem. In game economy has NOTHING to do with politeness and common courtesy. The trade channel is there for a reason. It was created with a purpose. SO...there's a few solutions: 1. Force all spammers to use trade chat. Yeah, right, that will happen. 2. The community makes an effort to not buy from those that spam in local chat. Still wont work unless the support for such a ban was unanimous by all players. 3. Let the spammers do whatever they like. Keep it the way it is. Those with a problem can bend to the will of the spammers and avoid LA, Droks, etc completly. or 4. Christ, Anet, stop us from arguing. Make an auction house already! |
Ok then. No mall? What about Television? People don't watch television (other than the shop at home shows) to entice their wallets. They watch it to drown themselves in entertainment or get informed by the news. If the mall analogy doesn't suit you, than I think the TV one would work better. Forcing people into a trade channel or a trade district is like putting us all on the shop at home network. If you're not aware of it, barely anyone ever watches the shop at home networks on TV. Putting everything on the shop at home network will cut transactions drasticly.
The bottom of your post said it clearly. None of the player driven solutions are gonna cut the cake. You will never be able to overcome the pressure to sell your items quickly with the peer pressure of politeness. Even more so ingame because you don't see the real people behind the chat. You just see their words so a persons tendency to be polite online is greatly reduced.
Other than A.Net presenting us with a solution, there isn't much we can do. So stop complaining about it.
Stockholm
Even if I'm looking for a specific item, I will not buy from someone selling in local chat, but I will let them know they missed out on a sale because they did.
Vahn Roi
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Originally Posted by Tainek
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=38 i see no reason to spam in the all chat, if trade takes 2 hours, and all chat takes half an hour, then this method takes 5 mins (post, check in a few days, freind buyer and wait for them to come online, simple) |
On a side note, not everyone uses Guru, I know I played for over 9 months before I joined.
Big Tony
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
I say shut the hell up when someone seems to have completely ignored over half of what I've said before. Or blindly accuses me without proper support.
Ok then. No mall? What about Television? People don't watch television (other than the shop at home shows) to entice their wallets. They watch it to drown themselves in entertainment or get informed by the news. If the mall analogy doesn't suit you, than I think the TV one would work better. Forcing people into a trade channel or a trade district is like putting us all on the shop at home network. If you're not aware of it, barely anyone ever watches the shop at home networks on TV. Putting everything on the shop at home network will cut transactions drasticly. The bottom of your post said it clearly. None of the player driven solutions are gonna cut the cake. You will never be able to overcome the pressure to sell your items quickly with the peer pressure of politeness. Even more so ingame because you don't see the real people behind the chat. You just see their words so a persons tendency to be polite online is greatly reduced. Other than A.Net presenting us with a solution, there isn't much we can do. So stop complaining about it. |
Forcing traders to one spot IS EXACTLY what the home shopping channel is! Do want some old lady selling crappy turquoise jewelery to interupt the show you're watching? I sure hope not. So they shipped the old lady and her crappy necklace to one place WHERE PEOPLE INTENTIONALY GO to buy said crappy thing. They EXPECT to be advertised to when they tune to the home shopping channel. They tune in cause they want to buy something. (ie the trade channel!)
The WHOLE POINT of this thread is that spamming trade stuff in the local channel is rude and annoying. It just is.
TheMosesPHD
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Originally Posted by Tainek
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=38 i see no reason to spam in the all chat, if trade takes 2 hours, and all chat takes half an hour, then this method takes 5 mins (post, check in a few days, freind buyer and wait for them to come online, simple) |
GWG Auctions is a great place to sell a lot of high-end or high-demand items. But many items aren't commonly sought after. When I wanted to test a PvE build with Iron mist, I had to go around searching for a a shocking hammer haft. That's a shocking hammer haft. Those aren't quite high in demand. I had to wait 5 days to get a trash haft just to test something out, because I couldn't find anyone selling one. We need a way to solicit these lesser demand items. Not even spamming chat is a good way to sell such items.
vinegrower
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Other than A.Net presenting us with a solution, there isn't much we can do. So stop complaining about it.
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Phades
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
Sorry sir, but you obviously didn't read every post.
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
My comments about the chat being pink were quite early on in the discussion. I used much more than chat color to support my reasoning.
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
And who is it that sells and buys the items for the values that have been determined by the game balance? First off I can't buy mods from traders. I can't get the exact drops I need from killing monsters over and over again. And I cannot sell a mod, or anything for that matter, to the NPCs for their actual value. All of this must be done by player to player transaction. The game is driven by player to player transactions.
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There are no balances on this. This is why arguing that the economy has some kind of balance within the game design is a falacy. You are just trying to justify passing off the cost of non-essential equipment onto someone else who has less play time under their belt.
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Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD
they. They. THEY! You're right! They, the game designers, have the potential power to change the system in order to address the problems. But we cannot change the game's mechanics and the obvious flaws within it. The only thing we can do is find a way around the flaw to keep the economy rolling.
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The flaw here is trying to force people to play by your rules. The premis of the chat channel and npcs were the only rules setup by ANET. You can not fault ANET or your fellow players for expecting others to follow those established guidelines.
TheMosesPHD
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Originally Posted by Big Tony
The television analogy is also flawed. Cause I will ALWAYS change the channel as soon as the home shopping network comes on. Hell, I dont stay on the same channel once any commercial comes on.
Forcing traders to one spot IS EXACTLY what the home shopping channel is! Do want some old lady selling crappy turquoise jewelery to interupt the show you're watching? I sure hope not. So they shipped the old lady and her crappy necklace to one place WHERE PEOPLE INTENTIONALY GO to buy said crappy thing. They EXPECT to be advertised to when they tune to the home shopping channel. They tune in cause they want to buy something. (ie the trade channel!) The WHOLE POINT of this thread is that spamming trade stuff in the local channel is rude and annoying. It just is. |
inscribed
I wasn't going to post anything else, but saw one more thing I wanted to respond to. Some of you are claiming that the addition of an auction house wouldn't help matters, that a form of enforcement would still be required. No one, not even professional farmers and the like (I am not one), enjoy sitting around and spamming. Any form of a system where a player can post his item and leave it is going to cut down on spams drastically. Sure, there will still be some, but certainly not at the level it is currently. Also, to curb any arguments about it taking longer to complete a sale with a trade house than with spamming, any delay in payment is a very, very small price to pay for having a means of selling an item without resorting to spam (I am not including the subforum on this site, as a much smaller selection of players view it, and the items for sale tend to be much more rare than an average item that gets sold in game, and so is not a feasible alternative for the average player).
To reiterate, no one likes spamming, any form of a trade house will help drastically.
PS. One more response. Comparing the selling of an ingame item to any form of real world business is a poor analogy. Real world businesses have a (theoretically) endless supply of goods to sell, and the business exists for the sole purpose of selling these items. The average player does not have an endless supply of goods to sell, and the player does not exist to simply sell items. A more appropriate analogy would be comparing an in game seller to a real world person who is interested in selling his car. The difference is, of course, that the real world car owner has means at his disposal to sell his car (newspaper classifieds, automobile websites, or even a good old "park it by a busy street with a sign in the window"). The point remains, however, that the car owner tries to get his ad seen by as many people as possible, while doing the least amount of work as possible.
To reiterate, no one likes spamming, any form of a trade house will help drastically.
PS. One more response. Comparing the selling of an ingame item to any form of real world business is a poor analogy. Real world businesses have a (theoretically) endless supply of goods to sell, and the business exists for the sole purpose of selling these items. The average player does not have an endless supply of goods to sell, and the player does not exist to simply sell items. A more appropriate analogy would be comparing an in game seller to a real world person who is interested in selling his car. The difference is, of course, that the real world car owner has means at his disposal to sell his car (newspaper classifieds, automobile websites, or even a good old "park it by a busy street with a sign in the window"). The point remains, however, that the car owner tries to get his ad seen by as many people as possible, while doing the least amount of work as possible.