PvE Warding

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

I've played very sub-optimal warding builds a few times in Canthan PvE, and discovered two things:

1. They rock (no pun intended).
2. It's easy to get them accepted by a party (Factions is having huge benefits to the appreciation of earth elementalists).

So what would be a good warding build, and how should it be played?

Here's what I think so far.

Ward Against Melee -- huge. All the casters should stand in it at all times.
Ward Against Elements -- not nearly as good as Ward Against Melee, but still highly worthwhile against mixed mobs.
Ward Against Foes -- I just don't get it. Yes, kiting can be good. But if Ward of Melee is down, I don't know of many mobs where Ward Against Foes would seem to make that much difference.
Ward of Stability -- obviously, very situational. Vs. the Jade Brotherhood just to protect against Dragon Stomp? I don't think so. Fighting to Drok's? Yeah, I'm packing it.
Stone Daggers -- if you're going to have Earth Magic high, take it. It's your main offense in this build.

Now, that can be pretty much it. 2-3 wards, Stone Daggers, 1-2 energy management, Aura, rez, and you're at 6-8 skills already. If interrupts are an issue, bring Mantra of Resolve. Or you can bring something like Extinguish -- one of those monk-relieving skills for the high-energy elementalist to help out with, and not really demanding the investment of attribute points. Heal Party is another option, I guess, although then you start compromising on Earth Magic and/or energy.

I don't like Armor of Earth or Kinetic Armor nearly as well in a group as I do solo; both seem to be better if you can dictate the tempo of play. On the other hand, they are great skills; so maybe you can bring one and only have it up part of the time. Kinetic could actually be a kind of cover enchantment, along with Aura, if you're running dual attunements.

Thoughts?

sumasage

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

i do notice that ward against melee help out alot during battles in faction. I always bring it if i dont need to cap an elite. Very helpful skill.

IllusiveMind

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mehtani Keys

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

I do the same. When capping skills, running from town to town, I always bring my wards. Henchies are my best friends.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

In Prophecies, in my experiences of being a PuG warder, you have to capitalize all your letters and say "STAY IN THAT WARD, DAMNIT!" every four seconds...and still, they run around like headless chickens.

I don't know about the general intelligence of PuGs in Factions, so...

IllusiveMind

IllusiveMind

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mehtani Keys

The Extraordinary Revolution [ReVo]

P/W

@LightingHell:

Is the same... same old story.
"I am warder please, stay inside my wards."
But no... they still run like headless chickens.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

We need something more powerful than that, more akin to the monks' "If you don't stay near me, I can't heal you"

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

I like to run 13 in earth and 13 in water with the rest in energy storage just to take ward against harm, its pretty effective.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

I just take Ether Prodigy. Mainly because I know the PvE monks are generally incompetent. The ones I am forced to play with, anyways.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

I just do ward against harm. Due to that it protect from all attack except armor ignoring, which is something all ward can't do against anyway. While blurred vision can take the place of ward against melee, but even better, it work against ranger as well.

Not only that, mael storm and deep freeze/ice spike also add offensive value for many situations. And your energy will be fine with water attunement alone, if you know how to manage it.

Water is the way to go for me.

The only reason I would go earth for ward is for ward of stablitity in massive KD area (we all know where), but that can be avoided.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
Mainly because I know the PvE monks are generally incompetent. The ones I am forced to play with, anyways. Notice this part.

It means I also bring Heal Party and Heal Other. :P

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllusiveMind
@LightingHell:

Is the same... same old story.
"I am warder please, stay inside my wards."
But no... they still run like headless chickens. That's because you are doing it all wrong!

You have to shout:

"Stay in the red circle thingie!! "
or
"It's nice and red and handy, give it a try!"

Still it's not 100% sure they will listen...

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Actually, since they can't read anything but caps, I say:

"ZOMG STAY IN THE CIRCLE!"

Usually without the ZOMG.

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

Lol. I have been playing wardrer for months before factions even came out. It is really nice they finally get some appreciation.

Most PLAYERS don't have trouble staying in wards when needed. Henches on the other hand, suck at that.

Btw, ward vs. harm is better than ward vs, elements, if you can afford the elite slot. Why? Because it is blanket reduction on all armor-factoring attacks, not just elemental damage.

Sad part is people still like nuking for PUGs so I usually run with 11 earth and 15 fire for PUGS (fireball, met shower, +wards) or 16 earth 11 water (wards) when with myself + henches.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

I'm struggling to see how Ward Against Harm could be a great choice.

Ward Against Melee plus Ward Against Elements would seem to, taken together, be a little better, and an energy elite doubles your available energy. So going with the energy elite also doubles the energy that you don't spend on warding.

I guess there's the matter of having more room on the skillbar. Hmm. I guess that could arise if you're out skill capping ...

Vahn Roi

Vahn Roi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2006

[HiDE]

I started using Ward Against Melee with my Mo/E when factions came out. It has saved me a lot of stress when fighting the various "gangs"

Being a more defensive player by nature, it was wards that made me finally switch my ele from cookie cutter nuker to kickass warding geomancer.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Crawford
I'm struggling to see how Ward Against Harm could be a great choice.

Ward Against Melee plus Ward Against Elements would seem to, taken together, be a little better, and an energy elite doubles your available energy. So going with the energy elite also doubles the energy that you don't spend on warding.

I guess there's the matter of having more room on the skillbar. Hmm. I guess that could arise if you're out skill capping ... It is NOT (ward against melee) + (ward against element) < (ward against harm). It is (ward against harm) + (blurred vision) > (ward against melee) + (ward against element).

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

I find an Energy elite more useful, that's all.

The Great Al

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

ALOA

E/Me

being a warder is boring as hell. yeah its nice to help out the team, etc...but the #1 reason i play is for fun, and warding is not fun

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos
It is NOT (ward against melee) + (ward against element) < (ward against harm). It is (ward against harm) + (blurred vision) > (ward against melee) + (ward against element) + a lot of Stone Daggers or something. Fixed that for you.

My point is to try to compare apples-to-apples in spells/minute, with energy as the presumed limiting factor.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Al
being a warder is boring as hell. yeah its nice to help out the team, etc...but the #1 reason i play is for fun, and warding is not fun Warding is very fun when you get an excuse to shout at your team members.

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

Well i personaly enjoy warding and have yet to run into energy problems when doing so, and alli take is:

Earth attunement
Ward against foes (mainly as there will be a trapper or nuker in the group)
Ward against melee/blured (depending on area)
Ward against harm
Armour of earth
Sliver Armour
Rtone daggers/crystal wave (depending on foes)
Ressurect (i hate when ele's take rebirth)

13 earth
13 water
rest in storage

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Without at least two skills to maintain Energy, Ward Against Harm isn't that good. You CAN get all the wards out, but you'd be unable to do anything else. I'll recommend Prodigy, but you can bring Attunement.

With Prodigy, you can take Rebirth, too.

gameshoes3003

gameshoes3003

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

I generally only take ward against melee and ward against foes because those seem to be the most usefull. But I don't know how I can really fit Ward against Harm into it since it's water =(. THERE SHOULD BE AN ELITE WARD FOR EARTH MAGIC!

torquemada

torquemada

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2006

guildless

Perhaps, perhaps. Ellies revolve around elite e-management skill, really. So even if we do get a decent elite of any kind, I doubt you'd throw your Ether Prodigy or Elle Attune because of it. Don't even tempt me....

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by torquemada
Perhaps, perhaps. Ellies revolve around elite e-management skill, really. So even if we do get a decent elite of any kind, I doubt you'd throw your Ether Prodigy or Elle Attune because of it. Don't even tempt me.... It'd take quite a lot to throw me off Ether Prodigy. Oh fine, a non-exhausting Obsidian Flame would do...

Ole Man Bourbon

Ole Man Bourbon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Atlanta

GONG

W/E

Kinda says it all about the Ele class that its Elite must be hogged by an energy skill despite the so-called advantage of E-Storage. ELe really is the worst class by far.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Well, with the E-Management skill we become very effective. Don't forget that.

Ozric

Ozric

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

Phoolz Like Us

E/Me

I've come to love playing Earth in Tombs these past 6 months now after playing Fire and seeing the benefits after having a Warder join our party once. Since then I've been using Earth everywhere. Once in FoW the other Ele chided me for joining the party under the pretense of being a 'Nuker', but the quickly changed their tune after seeing the benefits of being able to keep Wards up perpetually.

For Tombs being Earth is particularly handy as most Tanks there really don't know what skills to bring (seems that most have come strait on after ascending) and on each pull I just get the leading edge of my Ward/Melee around them and I stay in between them and the other casters behind. Most of the grasps that bypass the tanks are drawn to me but my Armor of Earth keeps me relatively safe and the other casters free to do their dirty work. I tried bringing Mantra of Resolve here once but found that my energy was sucked dry using it in about 5 seconds.

Tombs build - Stone Dags, Obsi Flame, Unsteady Earth(E), Aftershock, Ward/Stability, Ward/Melee, Armor of Earth, Earth Attune.

Aftershock is the least used skill in this Tombs build, but it is nice to have it as since I don't carry a rez I buy time for others to get away if we're being overrun due to a bad pull and can usually take out 1 or 2 grasps before I die. Ward/Stability is useful to help party members that I'm sure are about to be caught in a Meteor Shower and against the Wurms KD skill. Obsi Flame is always a great skill even though as you never want to use it flippantly for the exhaustion factor, you can spam it in an emergency and save the party if things get bad. I started using Unsteady Earth instead of Ele Attune for my Elite there in Tombs as it can basically stop a mob from attacking for a few crucial seconds, and is particularly effective for keeping the Scythes from E-Surging and interrupting while the party deals with the grasps all around us.

Of course very few balanced groups are nowhere near as effective as a b/p in Tombs, but it does make Tombs more of a challenge.

Lordhelmos

Lordhelmos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Sentients of Shadow (noir)

Me/E

I actually run a quite different build that seems to be doing me alot of good.

E/Me
Build: Water Warder

Blurred Vision
Vapor Blade
Ward Against Harm {E}
Channeling/Glyph of Lesser E/Water Attunement (Some kind of E mgmt)
Drain Enchantment
Ether Feast
Mantra of Resolve
Rez

Weapon: Flint's Fleshcleaver
Water: 16
E Storage: 9
Inspiration: 10

Yes I know the spell costs are high, but drain enchant + vapor blade on an enchanted target gets you a cheap 120+ dmg and strips them. Use a glyph/attunement/channeling (In mass mob situations like Vizunah) to keep your ward up and use blurred vision to devastate warriors. Blurred is a GREAT spell due to it being a hex and spreading to adjacent targets. Wars can't just plague touch it off. In my experience Ward against Harm is a very powerful ward. It completely owns Hell's and Tombs. 25+ armor against all attacks? Hell yea! Try this build out, its fun as hell. I dominated 12 matches in random with this, almost everyone commented on how great the wards were. Dust off that old flint's and turn your party into a tanking fortress. In PvE this build is also effective in many situations due to the raw defense boost of the wards. Resolve is also great since its a stance that lasts an eternity and keeps people from screwing your ether feast to keep yourself alive. This build also rocks in aspenwood. Having a whole army of minions and a siege turtle/juggernaut in never-ending wards of harm = death to enemy team.

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

"Ward Against Melee -- huge. All the casters should stand in it at all times."

You should be careful saying things like that =P Sometimes they'll ball up if not carefull .

Neriandal Freit

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
"Ward Against Melee -- huge. All the casters should stand in it at all times."

You should be careful saying things like that =P Sometimes they'll ball up if not carefull . Which is the gamble you take when you do the Wards and what not, specialy with Dragon Stomp and those bloody Jade Mages.

Why_Me

Why_Me

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

New Jersey

Mo/

Warding in cantha or tombs works so well, however I have to disagree with the whole issue of going part water for ward vs harm. Ward vs elements works much better, simply use a ranger secondary and get greater canflagration. Not only does this give you, at most attribute levels, a greater effect than ward vs harm, but your party is prepared for it, meaning they can bring mantra of flame and ele resistance, etc...
In addition, the attribute is wilderness survival, meaning storm chaser is affected too. I always bring kinetic armor so I can run around w/o worrying about being killed before I can get some wards up, and storm chaser allows you to get to the place where you need to cast a ward, faster. In addition, anytime you take elemental OR physical damage, you gain 4 energy, solving all energy management issue. Or, if you can get an ally to bring canflagration, you can use your elite for ward vs harm, meaning that allies in the area will gain an effective 60+ armor level vs physical damage.
Another option is a necromancer secondary. Use your elite for well of power. In a party of eight, this spell alone can single handedly win the battle. at 11 blood magic, any allies who stand in it for the entire duration gain additional energy, and 170 hp. At a 17 second duration, it can be kept active almost all the time. In this case, bring glyph of lesser energy and earth attunement, and use the glyph once every 30 seconds with a 15 energy cost skill.

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why_Me
Warding in cantha or tombs works so well, however I have to disagree with the whole issue of going part water for ward vs harm. Ward vs elements works much better, simply use a ranger secondary and get greater canflagration. BUT, ward against elements gives +24 armour to ele no matter what your att points are, where as at 13 water (what i use) ward against harm gives you 23 armour against anything (only one point off) AND 53 armour against fire...so going earth/water mix while taking greater conflag is much more effective than all earth with greater conflag

+24 Vs everything or +77 Vs everything.....hmm what to choose.

Why_Me

Why_Me

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

New Jersey

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why_Me
Or, if you can get an ally to bring canflagration, you can use your elite for ward vs harm, meaning that allies in the area will gain an effective 60+ armor level vs physical damage. There's a reason why you cant bring both yourself, they are both elites. If no one else can bring greater canflagration, then it simply buffes all your already existing wards without having to recast a new ward. And, your party can completely abuse it without the enemy taking advantage too.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Greater Conflag? Hmm. This is the first idea I've heard in a LONG time for an elite different from the standard ones (energy, invulnerability, renewal) that makes sense to me.

Not that I've capped Greater Conflag, however. But then, I did want to go after the Skill Hunter title line ...