PvE illusion mesmer help?
Takonic
ive been playing a PvE mesmer ( dom/inspir ) for a while...and was wondering if a illusion/? ( i like to stick to mes only cept for a rebirth or hard res ) is good?? anyone kno of some suggestions with good combo's or what not for PvE only? ive ran IW builds its fun, but boring after a bit...i wanna try out to be more "caster" like.....need some insight and help...ty!
Avarre
For PvE illu, there are a few types. One is degen;
The rule of thumb for degen is because it is relatively weak and has a cap, you want to get it on as many enemies as possible to maximize it's effectiveness. Thus an elite like Mantra of Recovery is good (persistance isn't bad either), and the focus of your attack is images of remorse + conjure to keep 9 degen on all targets. 18d/s is quite low, but when on an entire pack of mobs it does sizeable amounts of damage especially to mobs that aren't targetted until later.
To complement that, arcane conundrum for caster mobs and power drain for energy management are good choices. Cry of frustration can be brought along for the interrupt (doesn't need dom points), but power drain should have a spot, and you should have 10~ points in insp or so. This also allows ether feast if you want a selfheal.
Tactic for this demi-build would be to keep degen on all enemies, while interrupting heals being thrown at them by mobs. This will shave away a good deal of the enemy mob hp before they are targetted by your main group damage dealers, making the whole group fall quicker.
Pure mesmer except for your res skill is fine and I would advise remaining that way.
If you don't like degen, you can go a more illu-damage way. Using ineptitude (with epidemic if you like), clumsiness, conundrum to mess up casters and warriors is a very powerful setup. You can bring SV or AV (same skill desc) to throw on your tank (if he's good enough to hold aggro) which helps alot as well. Distortion is supreme self-defence, since you don't have one of the mantras in the degen build there is no reason not to run it. You can easily run a secondary domination attribute as your energy req is lower (to not need insp), using skills such as shatter hex, empathy, and cry of frustration.
The rule of thumb for degen is because it is relatively weak and has a cap, you want to get it on as many enemies as possible to maximize it's effectiveness. Thus an elite like Mantra of Recovery is good (persistance isn't bad either), and the focus of your attack is images of remorse + conjure to keep 9 degen on all targets. 18d/s is quite low, but when on an entire pack of mobs it does sizeable amounts of damage especially to mobs that aren't targetted until later.
To complement that, arcane conundrum for caster mobs and power drain for energy management are good choices. Cry of frustration can be brought along for the interrupt (doesn't need dom points), but power drain should have a spot, and you should have 10~ points in insp or so. This also allows ether feast if you want a selfheal.
Tactic for this demi-build would be to keep degen on all enemies, while interrupting heals being thrown at them by mobs. This will shave away a good deal of the enemy mob hp before they are targetted by your main group damage dealers, making the whole group fall quicker.
Pure mesmer except for your res skill is fine and I would advise remaining that way.
If you don't like degen, you can go a more illu-damage way. Using ineptitude (with epidemic if you like), clumsiness, conundrum to mess up casters and warriors is a very powerful setup. You can bring SV or AV (same skill desc) to throw on your tank (if he's good enough to hold aggro) which helps alot as well. Distortion is supreme self-defence, since you don't have one of the mantras in the degen build there is no reason not to run it. You can easily run a secondary domination attribute as your energy req is lower (to not need insp), using skills such as shatter hex, empathy, and cry of frustration.
Raptox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
If you don't like degen, you can go a more illu-damage way. Using ineptitude (with epidemic if you like)
Just a question about this bit here. Epidemic is used to spread the blindness after the Ineptitude damage, correct?
I'm just making sure I have my definitions of "condition" and "hex spell" right in my head.
I'm just making sure I have my definitions of "condition" and "hex spell" right in my head.
Avarre
Yes, after ineptitude gives blindness, you spread the condition 
Pick Me
Illusion Only:
Conjure Phantasm
Clumsiness/Ineptitdude(E)
Ethereal Burden
Illusionary Weakness
Phantom Pain
Arcane Conundrum
Ether Feast
Res Sig/Rebirth
Ether Feast is the only non-Illusion spell (required for healing only)
If you are a monk, then use better healing skills and put 0 points into Inspiration Magic.
I don't know Cantha's Mesmer skills, so I didn't list them.
You can also sub Arcane Conundrum and Ethereal Burden for Fragility and Signet of Midnight (e).
If you wanted also bring Epidemic and toss out Illusionary Weakness. The reason for Illusionary Weakness is for backup health. Fragility will do damage each time a person is inflicted or cured of a condition. Best to use Fragility then Phantom Pain. If Phantom Pain is removed, then it inflicts Deep Wounds. Once that happens, the target foe's max health is reduced by 20% and you do damage via Fragility. Epidemic will then transfer that to other foes near by. Signet of Midnight inflicts blidness for 15 seconds. Triggers Fragility and can be spread via epidemic. Blindness gives you 90% to not take damage. This is not counted as a Block or Evade.
Hope this helps.
Conjure Phantasm
Clumsiness/Ineptitdude(E)
Ethereal Burden
Illusionary Weakness
Phantom Pain
Arcane Conundrum
Ether Feast
Res Sig/Rebirth
Ether Feast is the only non-Illusion spell (required for healing only)
If you are a monk, then use better healing skills and put 0 points into Inspiration Magic.
I don't know Cantha's Mesmer skills, so I didn't list them.
You can also sub Arcane Conundrum and Ethereal Burden for Fragility and Signet of Midnight (e).
If you wanted also bring Epidemic and toss out Illusionary Weakness. The reason for Illusionary Weakness is for backup health. Fragility will do damage each time a person is inflicted or cured of a condition. Best to use Fragility then Phantom Pain. If Phantom Pain is removed, then it inflicts Deep Wounds. Once that happens, the target foe's max health is reduced by 20% and you do damage via Fragility. Epidemic will then transfer that to other foes near by. Signet of Midnight inflicts blidness for 15 seconds. Triggers Fragility and can be spread via epidemic. Blindness gives you 90% to not take damage. This is not counted as a Block or Evade.
Hope this helps.
azuresun
I run an Illusion build with my Me/Mo. Looks something like this:
Fast Casting 11
Illusion 15
Inspiration 11
Ineptitude {E}
Clumsiness
Images or Remorse
Epidemic
Power Return
Power Drain (energy management)
Inspired Hex (energy management)
Ressurect
EDIT: spelling
Fast Casting 11
Illusion 15
Inspiration 11
Ineptitude {E}
Clumsiness
Images or Remorse
Epidemic
Power Return
Power Drain (energy management)
Inspired Hex (energy management)
Ressurect
EDIT: spelling
Eaimirth Etaivella
Really not fond of illusion in pve.
Don't spam conjure phantasm.(if you are going to spam anything spam IoR)
Don't use IW in groups.(should be obvious)
Fevored dreams looks great on paper but never really works out (tme)
other than that...pretty much of anything else is semi-viable
Don't spam conjure phantasm.(if you are going to spam anything spam IoR)
Don't use IW in groups.(should be obvious)
Fevored dreams looks great on paper but never really works out (tme)
other than that...pretty much of anything else is semi-viable
Sab
Degen is great for softening up off-targets - a nice combo is Conjure Phantasm and Images of Remorse. You'll need some energy management to keep this up, I recommend Inspired Hex, Drain Enchantment and/or Power Drain for that.
Ineptitude and Clumsiness is another nice Illusion combo, doing a powerful armor-ignoring spike while preventing damage done to your party all in one.
My generic PvE Illusion build is pretty similar to azuresun's:
Me/X
FC: 9+1
Illu: 12+3+1
Insp: 9+1
Ineptitude (E)
Clumsiness
Images of Remorse
Conjure Phantasm/Distortion/Power Return
Power Drain
Inspired Hex
Drain Enchantment
Res of some sort
Ineptitude and Clumsiness is another nice Illusion combo, doing a powerful armor-ignoring spike while preventing damage done to your party all in one.
My generic PvE Illusion build is pretty similar to azuresun's:
Me/X
FC: 9+1
Illu: 12+3+1
Insp: 9+1
Ineptitude (E)
Clumsiness
Images of Remorse
Conjure Phantasm/Distortion/Power Return
Power Drain
Inspired Hex
Drain Enchantment
Res of some sort
Eaimirth Etaivella
Problem with hp degen is that empathy is generally the better choice.
empathy every 30/1.2 dps
degen 2xpoint of degen=18 for IoR+phantasm
Empathy is generally cheaper, lasts longer, and does more damage. Degen may be a good choice on enemies who do not attack, but I would still go the domination route. Yet again, I'm domination biased so there is likely something I overlooked.
empathy every 30/1.2 dps
degen 2xpoint of degen=18 for IoR+phantasm
Empathy is generally cheaper, lasts longer, and does more damage. Degen may be a good choice on enemies who do not attack, but I would still go the domination route. Yet again, I'm domination biased so there is likely something I overlooked.
Hella Good
I used to do Phantom Pain/Shatter Del/Ineptitude/Epidemic in PvE, esp. Fissure. It worked well with decent Warriors who can control aggro well, and decent other team members who don't mess up with the W aggro control. In FoW, we would call a target, my buddies then would Concussion Shot it and throw whatever other conditions on it, meanwhile I'll do my combo, and by the time I hit with Epidemic, there will be AoE blindness, deep wound, and daze. It killed everything so fast. We would do that and then rangers would simply barrage, the poor mobs completely unable to do anything. Then I'd take some Domination support like Empathy (owns Shadow Rangers and the Skelleton Warriors) and Shatter Hex. Pretty good stuff.
Francis Demeules
Well, with IoR+Phantasm combo, you can put Accumulate Pain to inflict a Deep wound to your target and virtually remove 20% of HP. I'm like Avarre, I use Illusion for degen and Inspiration to interrupt at the same time (I love Power Leech).
Eaimirth Etaivella
In FoW(or any zone with controlled aggro really) you could hypothetically run 3 attributes without any main energy management (IE fast casting, domination, and illusion) solely due to the skill E.Bond. Have yet to try it; but as said I really dislike illusion in pve. Yet IoR is a very powerful skill as stated before, I keep my prejudices against conjure, but I am very interested in IoR.
-off topic-
Funny thing is I always expected conjure phantasm to be similar to the conjure "blank" skills in the elementalist line, spread hp degeneration/hit. Off topic but interesting nonetheless.
-off topic-
Funny thing is I always expected conjure phantasm to be similar to the conjure "blank" skills in the elementalist line, spread hp degeneration/hit. Off topic but interesting nonetheless.
Avarre
I've always run Fc/dom/illu in FoW/UW with no energy management whatsoever. The majority of my spells are hexes, so there isn't a need to spam skills or use energy unnecessarily.
Emerald_Dream
sorry havent played my mesmer much whats IoR and E.Bond?
Avarre
Images of Remorse
Essence Bond
Essence Bond
Dragannia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald_Dream
sorry havent played my mesmer much whats IoR and E.Bond?
Essence Bond is a Monk skill however.
LightningHell
I usually use both Essence Bond and Balthazar's Spirit.
frickaline
Generally I bring no self heal since in most PvE its pretty easy to stay in the back and not get hit. If I'm ona mission where I think I might get hit frequently, I'd adjust that. I also may change my build slightly depending on party composition and other factors in the current mission, but usually I'll run something akin to this:
Image of Remorse
Phantom Pain
Clumsiness
Ineptitude {E}
Signet of Disruption
Energy Tap (or Drain Enchantment)
Power Drain (or Inspired Hex)
Res
FC: 9+1
Illu: 12+3+1
Insp: 9+1
or alternatively if you don't yet have an elite skill:
Image of Remorse
Phantasm
Accumulated Pain
Clumsiness
Signet of Disruption
Energy Tap (or Drain Enchantment, i prefer an on-demand method despite DE giving you a higher energy yield)
Power Drain (or Inspired Hex)
Res
Image of Remorse
Phantom Pain
Clumsiness
Ineptitude {E}
Signet of Disruption
Energy Tap (or Drain Enchantment)
Power Drain (or Inspired Hex)
Res
FC: 9+1
Illu: 12+3+1
Insp: 9+1
or alternatively if you don't yet have an elite skill:
Image of Remorse
Phantasm
Accumulated Pain
Clumsiness
Signet of Disruption
Energy Tap (or Drain Enchantment, i prefer an on-demand method despite DE giving you a higher energy yield)
Power Drain (or Inspired Hex)
Res
Eaimirth Etaivella
Of course a good thing to keep in mind is what type of task you are planning to accomplish. Say a monk with E bond as his/her only energy management skills (nevermind your entire team with only ebond as energy management) will do very very poorly in a mission similar to dunes of dispair. In this mission aggro is less managable then FoW or UW, where you will be able to correctly place aggro every time. Dunes has less aggro management due to restraining factors, which would include the time limit, mesmers rushing in to blackout monk bosses, the entire team ignoring enamies to take down a priest, etc etc. So this is a key concept to keep in mind, while any build should be determined by the mission it moreso affects mesmers are they are a "pluck and counter" class. Your build will likely be different based on what you are running against. If they are bringing hexes, you better bring shatter hex. If they arn't using hexes you better leave that skill at home. Thus there is hardly a "cut and dry" mesmer build that will; mesmers are not a "one size fits all" class and it will be difficult for a build that attempts to do such to out-do a individually crafted build set for each scenario.
-changing topic-
Yes Ebond is a monk skill, great luck for us so are rebirth, and ressurect. Ebond is possibly the best energy management in the game for PvE purposes of course a certain scenario has to be met first (cover enchantments if there are disenchanters, spellbreaker if lack of cover enchantments, more than 4 enemies on tank so that the energy gain is more than E.prodigy, controlled aggro, etc.); yet most of these are easily obtainable.
-changing topic-
Yes Ebond is a monk skill, great luck for us so are rebirth, and ressurect. Ebond is possibly the best energy management in the game for PvE purposes of course a certain scenario has to be met first (cover enchantments if there are disenchanters, spellbreaker if lack of cover enchantments, more than 4 enemies on tank so that the energy gain is more than E.prodigy, controlled aggro, etc.); yet most of these are easily obtainable.
Hella Good
I think AoE conditions or some form of spammable degen (maybe topped with Suffering) is about as good as it gets with Illusion. In PvE anyway. I don't think going anti-melee all the way is really worthwhile.
Innuendo
This is the build I use when I'm specced in Illusion. (When I run FC/Domination/Illusion I also use no energy managment.) It seems to work good for me, but I'm new to the whole mesmer scene so if anyone wants to rip apart my build then please do. =)
Fast casting: 8+1
Illusion: 12+3+1
Inspiration: 10+1
1. Power Return
2. Power Drain
3. Drain Enchantment/Energy Tap
4. Images of Remorse
5. Conjure Phantasm
6. Clumsiness
7. Ineptitude
8. Distortion
Fast casting: 8+1
Illusion: 12+3+1
Inspiration: 10+1
1. Power Return
2. Power Drain
3. Drain Enchantment/Energy Tap
4. Images of Remorse
5. Conjure Phantasm
6. Clumsiness
7. Ineptitude
8. Distortion
Jetdoc
If you're just looking for a PvE build for playing in a group, I think the Clumsiness/Ineptitude combo works fine.
When I solo with an illusion mesmer (without henchmen and not using a 55 build), I like to carry the following:
Illusion of Weakness (saved my butt many times)
Illusion of Haste (in order to hit and run and kite)
Distortion
Conjure Phantasm (the true spammable skill in this build)
Phantom Pain
Shatter Delusions (I use this to shatter Phantom Pain on a target that is about to die in order to deal the final blow - no Dom pts necessary)
Mantra of Persistence (to lengthen your phantasms)
One free slot - use your Elite (if you have any) of your choosing or a secondary profession skill. You can also Arcane Echo Conjure Phantasm if you want to spread the degen love.
When I solo with an illusion mesmer (without henchmen and not using a 55 build), I like to carry the following:
Illusion of Weakness (saved my butt many times)
Illusion of Haste (in order to hit and run and kite)
Distortion
Conjure Phantasm (the true spammable skill in this build)
Phantom Pain
Shatter Delusions (I use this to shatter Phantom Pain on a target that is about to die in order to deal the final blow - no Dom pts necessary)
Mantra of Persistence (to lengthen your phantasms)
One free slot - use your Elite (if you have any) of your choosing or a secondary profession skill. You can also Arcane Echo Conjure Phantasm if you want to spread the degen love.
Eaimirth Etaivella
I would love to throw imagined burden, ethernal burden, crippling anguish, or kitah's burden/shared burden although I havn't used them into your build Jetdoc. This will allow you to scrap distortion and illusion of haste, you can also cut shatter delusion for IoR.
This will allow multiple 20sec->degen kill on multiple targets that I mentioned earlier with the added benefit of never being hit. Problem is self healing, as always that is (on them, not you)
This will allow multiple 20sec->degen kill on multiple targets that I mentioned earlier with the added benefit of never being hit. Problem is self healing, as always that is (on them, not you)
Takonic
wow guys, thnx for all the input! im adjusting my build to my liking based on the new knowledge hmm...where to find ineptitude 
damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
hmm...where to find ineptitude damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
Raptox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takonic
wow guys, thnx for all the input! im adjusting my build to my liking based on the new knowledge hmm...where to find ineptitude damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
It works well, honestly. As of right now in PvE, caster enemies still wand you, so you can spam Clumsiness and Ineptitude on just about anything, really. Obviously it makes much more sense to use them on melee enemies, but if all you've got left to kill is a caster, it'll still work. And when I tried Avarre's tip on using Epidemic to spread blindness in The Eternal Grove, it was such a cakewalk it was amazing.
However, I don't go totally Illusion in PvE anyway. I prefer balanced Dom/Ill so that I'm not too focused on just melee. Grabbing energy from casters using Guilt, I've found, is a nice bit of energy management. I know there's mixed feelings on Diversion, but it makes killing monk bosses with hench unbelievably easier. Cry pretty much goes without saying.
Eh, just my two cents.
Oh...right...when you go cap Ineptitude, watch your hench tanks. They like to die real fast when it's used against them. I wouldn't bother with a PUG unless you really want the jerks to leave as soon as they cap what they're looking for. :/
hmm...where to find ineptitude damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
It works well, honestly. As of right now in PvE, caster enemies still wand you, so you can spam Clumsiness and Ineptitude on just about anything, really. Obviously it makes much more sense to use them on melee enemies, but if all you've got left to kill is a caster, it'll still work. And when I tried Avarre's tip on using Epidemic to spread blindness in The Eternal Grove, it was such a cakewalk it was amazing.However, I don't go totally Illusion in PvE anyway. I prefer balanced Dom/Ill so that I'm not too focused on just melee. Grabbing energy from casters using Guilt, I've found, is a nice bit of energy management. I know there's mixed feelings on Diversion, but it makes killing monk bosses with hench unbelievably easier. Cry pretty much goes without saying.
Eh, just my two cents.
Oh...right...when you go cap Ineptitude, watch your hench tanks. They like to die real fast when it's used against them. I wouldn't bother with a PUG unless you really want the jerks to leave as soon as they cap what they're looking for. :/
azuresun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takonic
wow guys, thnx for all the input! im adjusting my build to my liking based on the new knowledge hmm...where to find ineptitude damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
What Raptox said.
Ineptitude is the elite skill I use the most in PVE, solo or with groups. Even casters attack.
hmm...where to find ineptitude damn mineral springs...I just wonder if this skill set is really that feasible for a all around group for PvE
What Raptox said. Ineptitude is the elite skill I use the most in PVE, solo or with groups. Even casters attack.
Cymboric Treewalker
I prefer to think of it in this manner so far:
Domination = some conditionless damage, and some with conditions (attacking, casting) and very good spell interrupts.
Illusion = some conditionless degen, very good anti-warrior conditioned damage (attacking) and no interrupts.
The interrupts issue from Illusion can be augmented with inspiration.
I see domination as better at killing/shut down on casters and illusion better at killing/shutting down warriors.
Domination = some conditionless damage, and some with conditions (attacking, casting) and very good spell interrupts.
Illusion = some conditionless degen, very good anti-warrior conditioned damage (attacking) and no interrupts.
The interrupts issue from Illusion can be augmented with inspiration.
I see domination as better at killing/shut down on casters and illusion better at killing/shutting down warriors.
Eaimirth Etaivella
Based on popularity of spells;
Domination:Shatter Hex, Empathy, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration
Inspiration:Energy Drain (conditionally ether feast)
Fast casting:Power Return *grits teeth*
Illusion:Clumb. Imp. IoR
Domination:Shatter Hex, Empathy, Power Spike, Cry of Frustration
Inspiration:Energy Drain (conditionally ether feast)
Fast casting:Power Return *grits teeth*
Illusion:Clumb. Imp. IoR
Avarre
You put powerspike and omitted cry from your list.
You ignored power drain.
You missed Mantra of Recovery.
..You didn't miss much of anything
You ignored power drain.
You missed Mantra of Recovery.
..You didn't miss much of anything
Eaimirth Etaivella
Sorry I admit missing Cry (don't know how...but seems I did; heck its on about 78% of my builds >.>)
MoR, and Powerdrain...not quite so sure they are that popular. As you notice I left out powerblock, diversion, and blackout for a similar reason.
Edited to include CoF
MoR, and Powerdrain...not quite so sure they are that popular. As you notice I left out powerblock, diversion, and blackout for a similar reason.
Edited to include CoF
Avarre
Power drain is popular for the energy management
And MoR turns single, good skills (ior, empathy) into practically double or more of their power. But true, some don't like it as much I guess.
And MoR turns single, good skills (ior, empathy) into practically double or more of their power. But true, some don't like it as much I guess.
Hella Good
I don't care much for MoR. It seems to me too much bang for too little buck :-)
Eaimirth Etaivella
I perfer energy tap for my energy management...which is under energy drain...which is under e.bond...although those are my preferences of course. I don't like relying on interrupting a target for energy (I find it ironic that I bring my elite and don't sweat it at all knowing that I will hit on the first attempt, yet I get icky with the drain. Maybe its the all or nothing attitude with it; no...I'm there all the time. Prolly the conditional'ism of it; I just dislike not being able to cast that empathy until that monk tries to heal...skel-bonds never heal...I swear they just stand there never casting dope etc...and they do have to have casters in the group after all, quite a few of those no-caster groups...yet again this is all imo and has nothing to do with the spell's popularity so I guess I'm rambling, ohh well *rolls eyes* *slaps self 2x*)
Right; empathy is pretty spammable as is with 40% recharge gear (DARN YOU FACTIONS FOR YOUR COLLECTORS 20/20 RODS! DARN YOU STRAIGHT TO HADES!...used to have a monopoly on them, ohh well *rolls eyes* *slaps self 3x)
Same with IoR; although I would rather have a different elite if I was running illusion magic, pretty sure alot of players feel the same on that. (As you know I'm not a big fan of illusion in pve but ohh well ^_^)
Not near as popular as the big ten though; and ten does seem like a nice number to end it at.
Right; empathy is pretty spammable as is with 40% recharge gear (DARN YOU FACTIONS FOR YOUR COLLECTORS 20/20 RODS! DARN YOU STRAIGHT TO HADES!...used to have a monopoly on them, ohh well *rolls eyes* *slaps self 3x)
Same with IoR; although I would rather have a different elite if I was running illusion magic, pretty sure alot of players feel the same on that. (As you know I'm not a big fan of illusion in pve but ohh well ^_^)
Not near as popular as the big ten though; and ten does seem like a nice number to end it at.
Kai Nui
I've been running illusion recently just out of easiness
Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Images of Remorse, Conjure Phantasm, Ethereal Burden/Kitah's Burden, Illusion of Weakness, Signet of Capture, Resurrection Signet/Flesh of my flesh/Rebirth
Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Images of Remorse, Conjure Phantasm, Ethereal Burden/Kitah's Burden, Illusion of Weakness, Signet of Capture, Resurrection Signet/Flesh of my flesh/Rebirth