Helping Newbies, what's the limit?

Having beaten Prophecies and Factions, done probably 1000+ 12v12 battles, and subsequently turned in 215,000 Faction, bought 2 sets of Cantha 15k (Canthan and Luxon) and not really interested in any titles other the Friend of the Luxons, Wisdom and Trasure Hunter. I have returned to my old habit of helping newbies.

Now the best spot for me to farm is the newbie island. In the course of my farming I find many golds which I would generally have no use for, and thus I give them away to newbies.

When I run out of things to give away, I offer to answer newbie questions.

Now recently, while answering questions, someone got a bit aggitated with the fact that lvl 20s come down to the newbie towns and try to help out.

Their opinion was that most, if not all, players should learn the game completely through their own devices like he had. Please don't insult this person's opinion because I found some logical weight in the arguement. The first GW players had no one to hold their hands, except maybe that off hand beta tester. Myself included.

So the questions I pose to the community are:

-Should the more experienced players lend their help to those new to the game?

-Are we causing detriment to the quality of players by doing so?

-And finally, in the event that you support aiding newbies, what limits/standards of help should be unofficially abided by, amoung those that choose to help out?

If I'm in a district when someone asks a basic question (where do I get [elite], where does [green/skin/item] drop, what's my next quest/mission) more often than not I answer.

If they say "thanks, hey can I have 2k/an item/some crafting material" then no, no they cannot. I'll give information, but no more.

I give help when it is asked for, unless they're beggers...

1. They should lend their help in terms of knowledge. Perhaps some little items, but rares? Hmm...I have been playing GW since the first preview event (in like May or something), and I STILL get excited when I get a gold. Now, I am being rather hypocritical, since I tend to give golds away and such...but I think that that player had a point in saying you should let these players figure it out for themselves. However, you must also consider that most rares that drop simply aren't that good. Giving a newbie a max dmg req9 15^50 rare is absolutely ridiculous, but just a normal rare that you may find out of a Canthan chest really isn't that big of a deal, I don't think.

2. They only detriment you'd be causing is spoiled brat players later on. Just like real life (not everyone is like this of course, but generally people turn out this way), if someone gets everything they want early on, then when they can't get that stuff later, they get whiny. Those players also might feel that they don't need to farm and such if they can just get whatever they want. They'll learn later on though, that once you're lvl 20, no one gives you stuff. Luckily, in Factions, lvl20 comes pretty quickly, so they won't really be considered newbies for too long, and will have to work for their equipment.

3. I think I answered that in my response to #1.

i see where you are going with this.

I am helping Noobies alot as well.

when i had nothing to do sometimes i was going to ascalon and read local chat to see some newbie complaining how he is struggling with those very scary lvl 5 charr..... so i would help

i was helping a noob with Athena's quest, and you know, its the quest that teaches how to lure 1 gruop at a tiime. so i was "teaching" the noob ranger. guess what? as soon as we hit the big mobbs he spams....BARRAGE!!! how the hell a noob would know about barrage if hes a real noob?.......

alot of thhem are there just to make fun and get free rides. now i dont dedicate more then 5 min for each noob... and did i mention that the real noobs, dont even learn.

now i see it this way:

helped a noob with Athena quest = created a "I'm runing in cuz im invincible" wammo...

my limit is when i hear "can i borrow 20k for new armor?!?!?!" spammed out in local chat or trade. that just flat out annoys me, and if i see it enough, my block list gets longer.

if i hear something like "can anyone help me get a better bow/sword/etc?" ill sometimes take a look and if its a lvl 15 or below, ill offer them an extra i was planning on selling either for free or real cheap if its good. the funny part is that sometimes even that bites me in the arse. ive had people complain that the items i was offering them FOR FREE werent good enough! you dont want my max dmg gold 13^50 bow, then merchant the damn thing .... but take it and say thank you at least!

as far as information goes, im full of it (hehe, more ways than one if you knew me). im always giving out useful tidbits like where to cap "x" or what to do for a certain quest, and i dont mind that at all. i think everyone should offer tips and pointers to newer players. it keeps them in the game longer ... which means more people playing .... which means less likelihood of a monthly fee ... which helps us all. often ill point general questions over to guru or wiki - thats usually where i got my info.

As a relative newbie, I appreciate knowledge help, but find things like running or giving out gold and items a bit offensive.

While I can understand wanting to run your 3rd character so you don't have to repeat what you did with 1 and 2, running new players just takes from them the very content they paid to get... When you help them out in this way, in a month you will have them posting in forums like this over how 'this game is boring and sucks and has no content' (when in fact it only had no content because they chose to skip it).

For knowledge, I myself tend to rely on the guild wars wiki. That said, giving out knowledge and advice within the game would build community - if anyone was able to hear you over the spam...

Best method for helping newer players, from what I've experienced, is to teach them.

Teach them to farm, recommend some skills, whatever, but just throwing some gold at them isn't always the answer. That said ... if someone is just asking for gold, I tend to ignore it. If they ask for help of some sort (how can I earn money? can you help me play my character better? things like that), I am more than willing to help.

Welcome them, don't feed them. Wordly material is not what they need, indepth wisdom is all they should seek.

But more on the point, GW is not like typical games. Its game mechanic are very indepth, and there will be no way the new commer can catch up to the the oldies by themselves.

If it wasn't for this forum, we wouldn't know majority of the mechanics in this game (and everyone will hold their little information). So... send them here, and let them ask question here. Make them read some of the guides too.

The big serves the small, the young respect the elderly.

As for items... you really should keep it to yourself... you going to need the $$$ eventually again. They can work for theirs.

I rarely go looking to help, having enough to remain occupied within guild/alliance matters but I do always try to answer questions when I'm in towns. It's always difficult to remember what you yourself were like in the first week or so of playing (myself, I got to level 7 before finding out what attribute points were - or assigning them. fortunately factions explains much more of the game interface and mechanisms), so I always try to be helpful when the situations present themselves to anyone getting to grips with the game (after all, we want them to join us as longer term players and not quit through frustration). But there are some rules.

1) person must demonstrate awareness of lower case characters and type without a large number of dashes appearing where ordinarily I'd expect mindless swearing, or using excessive emphatic punctuation.
2) see 1, basically.

Of course, I get tired of telling people what equipment requisitions are for sometimes, or how to get into House Zu Heltzer. But usually, polite requests for information i'll try to answer. For any database like information (where is item xyz) the best thing I can say even if I know already is to tell them about guildwiki. So, information, simple advice, I try to help and I think everyone should. Directions I'll also give freely, but only from places they already know about, or the notion of 'exploring' is rather false. I certainly wouldn't take or (far worse) run them there.

It does get more complex when you're now thinking about giving away golds, greens or other quality equipment. Once, I thought I'd rather give certain things away then sell them due to (for example) low value, hate trading, want things out of storage but I can't decide if that was generosity or my laziness. I think the argument that people should find better equipment as they proceed through the game is much less weighty in factions for sure but there is a real point - an 11-22 staff hurts a level 6 mantid a lot more than it does a level 20 jade brotherhood knight, but they've maybe been playing on shing jea thinking conjure flame is analagous to a rocket launcher. When it comes to it if it's too good to merchant, not near-perfect to trade for platinum (or would invariably salvage into worthless material) I'd rather give it away with certain advice, if it seems I need to. As for gold, that's almost never valid. Genuine new players have no notion of what money is really needed for.

Concerning helping players in explorable areas/mission, in a way I think they need to learn on their own. Certainly if you're very high level for that area it's entirely counterproductive. They're neither learning by example nor even playing, they just follow you around the map and it's not immense fun, unless you have the time (and great patience - much exceeding my own) to spare to perhaps act as a henchman and tail them. But if the character levels are similar, certainly it's a good idea. Quest parties are so hard to come by, and it's lonely to play a cooperative rpg with AI allies. It's just a pity it's impractcal for many to fix a character at low enough level to be able to offer appropriate help.

In all my online games, I've learnt the most and developed furthest with the help of someone who knows a great deal about the game. When I had questions and such I could get answers, to complement what I could find on my own.

So knowing that, I don't answer everything people have to ask me, but I try to help with information as much as possible. There are two kinds of information, in that regard. One is straight factual information, like where an elite is, etc. These everyone should answer if possible. The other is more theoretical information, like 'whats the best way to tank' or something, in which case you give them starting guidelines of information/opinions and help lead them along to develop that personal capability in their own way.

I rarely help with physical things like levelling, items etc unless I know the person. Information is the most powerful thing you can give to a new player, not just the where and what, but the how and why. Once they understand the game, then they aren't a newbie anymore.

I help the new players when they are willing to submit to Serfdom.

I don't tend to give items or gold because someone asked (I have, however given away because I want too). In this game they are just too easy to get - that's just being lazy. 9/10 times the person could have gotten it faster by just playing the game. But I don't have any issue with someone else doing it.

I do answer questions. If I notice someone ask more than once I will usually answer (I let more experianced players answer first, though I feel free to post in forums).

But then, my answers depend on what is asked. Really newbie questions usually get a direct answer plus where to go look for stuff (here and guildwiki are my favorite). If someone is obviously just being lazy I still usually answer, but am kinda ascerbic. Lastly sometimes some things just aren't really clear. For example - animate flesh golem. At the very first point in the game there is no reason to know you have to leave from Shinji's corner (or however it is spelled) - I think I spent a few hours trying to get there before I figured it out (at that time the maps on guildwiki just had an "X" and, not having beat Vizunah/naphui, I didn't know it was in two levels). That was, and to some extent, still is a reasonalbe question from even some experienced GW players.

In the end, I don't mind ignorance - we are all ignorant in many many things. I do, however, greatly dislike lazy. Especially in an online game - why play if you don't even want to play the game? I don't mind a lot of cheats and such in single player games (truthfully, if you only use them for yourself i don't care in multi-player either), but why get the 15>50 max damage axe through begging if you never plan on using the freaking thing? The other option is trying to take advantage of nice people - which I find even more abhorrent.

I usually just give some a few materials (eg. 5 cloth) when they need it, or answer their silly questions such as "Where is the Storage??"

Sometimes if i have some average upgrade mods or some decent whites (max dmg fellblades ) I will go to Piken and give em away.

It's not cool however to run your 500+ hr character to help the noobs who can't complete the Piken missions on their own.

I answer questions and correct mistakes within facts.

Player 1 - You get Shield of Judgment just outside of Granite Citadel.
Me - No, you get it in Mineral Springs off of Myd Springclaw, which is further than 'just outside' of Granite Citadel.

Of course, this always ends up being an argument with the person I've just corrected and quickly becomes an exploration crew loaded with cruel profanities.

I've also taught friendly players about common farming aspects of the game. Hate me for doing so or not, the student sure enjoys learning from me.

*shameless boast*

I will usually answer questions. I helped a pvp guy out at xmas with those quests....otherwise I tend to tell people to look up guildwiki or guru......especially when they continue to ask...whats this, wheres that...so I say 'a good resource is' and then most of them will thank me for that website and go on their merry way.
I dont give away materials or weapons since I dont keep more than I need with me or in storage.

I direct people to guildwiki for elite locations or other basic questions, then they can find out for themselves and might find more information they need. When I walk arround newbie Island I try to warn others for the CE pet scam when I see one coming by just as I do in pre for black dye buyers.

QFT


I also have www.guildwiki.org and www.guildwarsguru.com on macro buttons, so i can send them to find more information should they want to

I help out newbies all the time. I swear, I must answer that "What are Monestary Credits/Imperial Comendations/Luxon Totems/Equipment Requisitions for" question just about every time I log in at least once. I try to supply knowledge and information as freely as I can. I mean, what's the point in knowing a bunch of stuff if you don't share it?

Ocasionally, I'll help them by playing, but they MUST pull their own weight. I refuse to help beggers and leeches. If I notice that the person I'm trying to help isn't doing anything, I let the mob take them.

Within reason. I give info if they ask fo rit, I give non-max weapons with very low req (usually purples with a req of about 5)... and that's it.

I don't know if one lowers the quality of players by overhelping, but you WILL spoil their game and have to suffer them complain about the PvE being too short & easy here at Guildwars.

IMO: give any info they ask for, give non-max weapons, don't run them, don't fight their battles for them, don't volunteer minimaxing info, and never give them cash.