Helping Newbies, what's the limit?

I found the GW wiki before I even logged into the game for the first time. Sometimes when I see someone asking a question I'll just paste in the url to it. It might annoy them to be told to go look it up, but it will then give them the answer to their next question as well, more than likely.

On the other hand, perhaps if I didn't have the ability to look things up so easily I might have more of a need to connect with other players in the game. As is, save for two quests in pre-searing, I've soloed my way as far as yak's bend (got there a few minutes ago).

So, perhaps having such a resource is a double edged sword...

If I help a new player in quests I take my monk. I let them take care of learning to call targets, pulling, and watching the radar. If they are doing it wrong, I point out it is wrong and why. I have played with the 6 core classes so I cannot offer pointers for assasins or ritualists, so I make it a point not to. Only thing worse than ignorace is mistaken knowledge. I used to help with my tank, but I felt I was "doing" rather than helping. Since in most low level areas a lvl20 will kill things in one, maybe two, hits. This keeps them alive longer to know why they are all getting hammered or why they arent killing something (its nice to take divine intervention to show them people are dying... its only real use to me). If they need something like 60gold to get the AL15 Armor and basic materials I find while helping them I will hand it over.
I do not help beggars, people who use caps, or anyone calling anyone else a noob (not in the tender loving care way). I dispense with any factual knowledge like where to find quests, items, or elite skills. I inform them of the rare material, storage, and rune traders (walk them over if I have to). I dont hand out rare items because in Factions there are merchants outside and if its not something someone I know wants or is of use to me it gets immidiatley merched.
I will teach them to farm certain enemies (eg: you want to learn to 55 in UW? Lets go to the desert : deal with constant interruption, constant enemies, and no pay fee. I go as a monk to rez them.)
Also, I do not help many people at once if its anything other than info. If I feel like helping someone they get my undivided attention for a good long while. Also, if they get rude at any point I bail ("hurry up" spam for example). A lot of the people I helped are now on my friends list and regularly find one or two helping someone out.
So.. to answer questions:
1. Yes. There are a few things that with help from others can go from annoying to fun. (Some quests on the island for example, where a lvl5 with lvl6 hench has to many defeat mobs of lvl13-15s). Basic knowledge like runes not stacking can help them from wasting their hard earned gold. (I once helped a tank with an absorbtion rune on every piece of armor.)
2. Not necessarily. Help in a passive way I say. Do not give them 10k for that item they do not NEED, show them how to kill monsters, then sit back and smile.
3. Small amount of economic help is okay by me. Just dont buy the whole wardrobe. (Anyone have 5 wood planks? Sure. Anyone have 10k I can have? Go fish.) Do not run people places or tell them a build and get on with your life. If you give them a build, explain WHY the build works (Dont know how many times I have had to explain why someone with Protective Spirit and only 55hp wont die from one hit). If you are helping do not expect monetary compensation. Point them to good websites so they can read up. If they are unappreciative of help received, bail, someone out there will be. (eg: Free gold item? But its not perfect WAH. Move on.)

When i was a newbie myself i was given some help from a ranger (helped since i was a ranger too), they basically explained things that i didn't know like that you could change 2ndary profession etc. I can't remember what i was doing at the time though...

The only help i usually give newbies is advice/answers to there questions. I think most of the time i end up helping out people who've done the game already... namely when i decide to run my 2nd account from Ascalon to the Desert and bring people along for free.

Begging i don't like... we all have the time where we need 2 Iron Ingots and don't wanna buy 10, most of the time when that happens you can guarantee someone will just give you them. But standing in towns begging for gold is just irritating (although i did have to do it once when i didn't have any gold to open up my storage chars account... )

Surprisingly common. I occasionally have giveaways where I offload low-level items for free in the beginner areas (The Monastary or Sardelac), and one thing which annoys me is when I ask a low-level player if they want a free items suitable for beginners and get the answer "Hmmm... what specs?".
Dude, it doesn't matter what the specs are: IT'S FREE!

I usually teach Elementalist nukers to 55 with Hydras. But I don't give them anything materialistic.

I always help out when they have a knowledge question, but I'd never help out by running/giving anything.

i only answer their questions when i can or about my experience with whatever it is they want to know about. items/gold i don't give but that's because all those people who go round asking for that kind of thing annoy the hell out of me, they'd make money a lot faster if they spent the time actually fighting instead of in town begging.

but i don't hang about towns much >.> only times i recall helping people was when someone asked in local chat what build trappers tend to use for trap teams, and when i somehow ended up in a trap team where 2 members had little/no idea what they were doing but were too scared to ask until it was too late so i gave them the info and paid for the next attempt.

but i don't really help lower level players, i tend to help out friends/guildies with quests/missions, i refuse to lend even them gold >.> items i'd give if i had more than 1 (namely greens)

i think it's a hard qeuestion ...

first of all, i somehow always tend to agree with those who say 'let them learn by themselves, we didnt otherwise'. i learned everythink on myself ( hehe, when i started when the game came out, i didnt know there were mercs,so i always had to kill the charr one by one, groups were too strong for me, until i found one could hire mercs ... ), most did perhaps.
Helping others is sometimes unfair, why should you do the work and let others profit of it ? ( same with posted char guides ... most of the time i highly respect those who do, because they create a chance of their work being nerfed, but on the other hand, what is thought can be thought again, so imho guides that were kept secret would be inofficially pubilc one day ). until recently i didnt know what IWAY meant ... well, i didnt ask, i found out via forums. that would be a away for newbies to gather information, too.
or just play the game and listen, i recall my first trip to FoW, i didnt say 'hey, i dont know anything, please tell me', but i kept silent, followed and listened to the orders of the expirienced players. noobs now tend to got bersek in fow, like they are invincible, not listening to anyone and cursing at the others upon their deaths. may be a reason why i dont like to help so much maybe.

On the other hand, not i gw, but in another game i had some highly expirienced people who taught me everything. So if those offered you help, do you have a right to deny it to others ?

I rarely answer questions, mostly because they are asked in a 'WHERE DO I F*ING FIND SKILL XYX PLZ TEL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!' style. I never give items to others, it does spoil them, i'm sure of that, let alone gold. they must gather that by themselves ... sometimes i even tend to tell peaople to go farming if they ask for gold in public. one can earn gold with every level, so being lvl17 is no excuse for not farming. one could also just postpone his current plans, lvl to 20, farm a bit and there one goes, but that hardly comes to anyones mind, better keep asking for gold over 2 hours time.

sometimes, when i'm bored, i rush people from y to y, not really out of gratitude but because i'm bored. so no real will to help there, too.
form time to time i answer questions, and when i do it's because they are asked in a decent and intelligent-looking manner, like 'could someone plz tell me where i can get the skill xyx'.

everyone has his own way of helping or not helping, and neither side is to be blamed for anything. helping guild mates is maybe smth different, i can't tell, I've never rlly been in a guild for long .

I used to give away many items (such as close to perfects, useful items, but with ugly skins which i dont like, and i dislike trading, so this list was quite long). I relate this to my d2 times when within the week i started playing several nice ppl gave me stuff like annihilus'es, soj's, bul-kathos, etc. it really helps if you get a lil bump in the beginning.

i find it a pain tho, especially since its hard to find a REAL newbie... and if u do, chances that he wont know english good enough to understand that ure giving him stuff is pretty big (dont laugh, happened to me several times). then I quit doing that. i do answer questions and such, and if someone im doing trade with seems like a genuine newbie, more often or not, they get some decent items ^^

the real stuff i save for people that made their way on my friendlist. its simply fun to give nice stuff to nice people who are thankful for it and cant get it on their own.

its just hard to pick who to help and who not, so much greed, pretense and hate in those games..

Usually I'll answer any question to my best knowledge that I see asked, where-ever I happen to be. Be it selling stuff in pre or in droknar. Occasionally I'd even offer short runs for tips (in post) or help questing (in pre). Though I personally set the limit at giving stuff away for free, which I never ever do unless it sells to the merchant for like 10 gold or under.

I'd rather sell some crappy white for some low price then to give stuff away for free, even though I -realy- do not need the 15 gold I'm selling it for


I also help people transfer gold/items between accounts from time to time, I don't charge for that either


So in short: I never give stuff for free, only thing for free from me is advice or maybe some help. And I do it cuz I like helping people around that could use the help (even if I'm helping someone with their 10th new toon do 'across the wall' quest), I don't like helping beggars.

To some extent yes.

For example, I got into GW about 6 months after two friends did. At first they gave me money to buy armor, runes of holding for my bags, etc......even a Gold max damage Hammer (with a high req). But after a little bit of this I started refusing money from them because I wanted to figure it out on my own. They were still there to ask questions and help out on tough spots, but I really tried to figure it out myself.

In contrast, another friend started about 3 months after me as a W/Mo. My other two friends did the same thing with him they did with me, offering monetary and item assistance, but the difference is he kept taking them. In fact they even ran him to Drok's and helped him buy max armor. So one day when he was at 16th level running through one the Jungle missions, the three of us (myself and my two friends), helped him out. My friends concept of playing a Warrior was terrible. I think he had 8 attack skills loaded, no self heal, no rez. When we talked about it afterwards, we realized that by having max armor and max weapons early in the game, it made everything far too easy for him. So easy, that he never learned the proper balance of skills. When he hit the desert was when he got a shock, as the playing field was far more level between himself and the monsters. We finally got him to buy into the idea that defensive skills and stances were not worthless after all.

So in effect, too much help impedes the GW learning process.

I like helping "noobies" (h8 that word), i like when our guild on occasions brings in new players we always help them as a guild due to the fact each of our guild members has completed the game and all that stuff

its refreshing to see new players who you helped say 1 month ago become really good players e.g

when factions came out i was just popping about minding my own business doin missions/quests with ma guildies, and we went one man down cause of one of our guildies had to leave, so we picked up some random person who never had a clue what to do, we trained him up for two days nearly just battling through the game, unfortunalty we were'nt recruiting at that time, now its been wat about 4 weeks and iv still had him in my mates list, i got bored pm'ed him and met up and started battling, he is a really good player now, BUT not as good as me

WHEN n00bs TAKE THE UTTER P**S

i have got alot of time for new players i enjoy doin missions etc with them as i said its refreshing to see them, instead of some wammo, calling his weapons constantly thinkin he is gods gift,

but when they start pm'in me every five minutes wanting to sell me, needing help, asking if i have something etc, well its irritating, i will respond with something like

"soz, busi atm 10 mins and ill go look"

"no, soz i got good weapons i dont need anything"

"soz, i cant help u atm, im with ma guildiez il help after im done"

then, i get this

"FINE THEN U NOOB IL NEVER TALK TO U AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!111111!!1!!!!!!1!"

im like wtf i just said sorry but i cant help you, i will help you after im done i cant come to some strangers beck and call!

also when you find out they arent a new player and are taking the utter pi$$

sometimes when iv returned from work and the new player wont stop talking at me, because he doesnt understand the game that well, sometimes gets irretating after the 50 PING, but i count to 10 and keep explaining what he should do at that point of the game

most of my friends list is made up of people i have met during my first hours/days/month of playing GW and i keep in contact with them, and there some of the best in the game atm, and i hope to stay in contact

I remember my first day playing GW. Someone asked if I needed help and I said "sure". But instead of actually helping me, he ran like a mad man killing everything before I got to it and just told me to keep up. I had no clue how to fight, how to use skills, how to activate quests etc. So this guy wasn't actually helping me at all so I left.

When I help newies, I let them ask the questions. That means they are thinking of HOW to play the game not just wanting to get to the good stuff. The biggest help/tip I give when questing with new people is to teach them the basics of Calling Targets and Attacking Called Targets. To me this is one of the key steps to learn how to become an effective player and being a valued team member. The origianl GW didn't really tell you how to Call and Attack called targerts. Faction, in its very first training area teaches this much better. But I think its still very valuable to teach new players and "train" them the way we older players would like more of the community to be like.

Giving gold and items is a strict no-no with me.

It doesn't hurt to answer questions and give some advice to those who ask; if you don't feel like answering questions all day, the least you could do is point them guildwiki;

I think the detriment is mostly due (for new players) to the fact that they level up so fast in Factions versus Prophecies. There IS something to be said about being forced to grind when you're a new player; at the very least, I would think you'd have a basic understanding about how things work (skills, merchant trading, economy, etc.)

The limit thing depends on those giving the help. I think most of the veteran players can tell the newbies from the beggars; those who are sincere (to me) might get a little gold, and a decent weapon (sorry, you're not getting an IDS from me, lol). I won't run newbies all over the map, though (sorry, but to me, the best lesson you can get is to learn to fight your way from point A to point B)...

I give advice whenever I see the players needs them ( Wether or not they accept that, I spam my advice )

When I have useless runes ( sup insp, major's, etc. ) I just go the the great northern wall, find myself the suitable character, open trade, and give the runes...most of them never hit accept...their fault ( It's funny when they give their last 37 gp )

QFT

I agree, it is hard to weed out the real begginers from the cons, but that never stops me from helping out those whom genuinely could use a little boost. When I first started a friend gave me 2 perfect necro weapons which would sell for over 200k. She had aquired so much wealth, that giving away those two items didn't hurt her at all and it helped me a lot.

I believe what goes around comes around, if you do help others in their time of genuine need, then you shall find help yourself in such said circumstances.
I will reply and help out with questions and sometimes a generous offering of goods, if I find the person to be a real candidate for it. I have probably given away over 1 mil in items and cash in the past year. It makes me feel all warm and gooey on the inside.

I really do not mind sharing my virtual millions, as long as the other person is appreciative.(no he doesnt have to kiss my a$$, a simple, "thanks man..you rock!!", will suffice). I have everything I ever wanted in the game with millions of cash and goodies to spare. I like to give back to the community of decent young inspiring GW addicts, but there is a limit to my generosity.

I love starting new characters knowing that I'll be around new players who I can help. If I see questions being asked in the chat window I will be more than happy to answer. When I first started playing GW I was very appreciative of the two players who answered my questions, so I like to help also.

Every once in awhile I'll give a new player a basic sword, bow or staff. The items aren't powerful but they are a little better than the starting weapons. If someone askes for gold I simply tell them to go kill a monster or two. It's that easy.

It's nice to be thanked by a new player for your assistance. It makes me feel good knowing I just helped someone.

I love helping noobs! I teach them to dye their starter armour in Pre-Searing Ascalon, especially black, because it looks soooo cooooool, and it's only one gold at the merchant anyway...


What?

But seriously. I like starting a new character and do Pre-Searing, just to help people. And tell them not to sell their dyes before, but after the Searing. Which gets me flamed by just about everyone that's spamming "WTB Dye 50g" in every channel..

1) Should more experienced players help?

Should implies responsibility. Do we have a responsibility to help newer players in the game? I think this is one that can only be answered in the context of your personal expectations.

For example: If you benefitted from and appreciated help you got from experienced players when starting out, I think that it is a reasonable expectation that you do similar things for at least one new player.

On the other hand, if you bootstrapped yourself all the way up, never benefitting from the knowledge of others (something I find rather difficult to believe) then you could justify not assisting in any way, shape, or form.

Even the earliest players benefitted from the knowledge of others'. As one group of players figured something out another group discovered complimentary knowledge and it was eventually shared. Devs dropped hints. People posted math.

While no one should be censured for not sharing knowledge, I do believe it is in the community's best interest to help new players, however small that help. After all, the new players comprise the player base the rest of us play with, and if they learn and become better players, we all benefit.

2) Is help from experienced players detrimental to new players?

Sometimes.

As has been pointed out, doing for someone rather than teaching them how to do it can result in a person who learns nothing.

In World of Warcraft it is common practice to 'run' people through the lower level instances for gear and experience. There is a debate there as well, about whether this is counterproductive, especially considering the people you meet at end-game who cannot function properly in their class roles.

On the other hand, many of those being run through instances are the alts of higher level characters, players who aren't especially interested in doing the lower level stuff over and over and just want to get to 60 to play with friends.

In similar ways, people that have been there and done that get runs to where they pick up what they want or need, like Droknar's Forge. They bypass the lesser armor spots or what have you.

But people that haven't done it at least once get little benefit from this. They haven't learned what they needed and are getting access to things that will make things easier than they ought, reducing the impetus to learn.

Similarly, people playing a new class aren't doing themselves any favors by bypassing content simply because it's been done before. Each profession functions differently in different situations and it behooves us all to figure out the nuances of each combination we intend to play.

I also agree with people that say Factions quite possibly contributes to new players thinking they are experienced because they've hit 20 by Kaineng Center or thereabout.

I've played off and on since BWE and I still don't consider myself a vet. After all, my highest level character is my Monk, and she's only 17. Sadly, many Factions-only players I've met in Cantha think they can tell me the most ludicrous things simply because they're 20 and I'm not. It's scary how wrong they often are.

3) What limits should there be?

It is my belief that help should be offered, but that free rides should not. It is a game and should therefore be both enjoyed and experienced. Frustration at not understanding game mechanics or where to find something is not fun any more than waving at the Black Curtain as you go whizzing past is experiencing.

Everyone should have to go kill Galrath in an under-leveled PUG. *shudder*

I sell nice items cheap (sometimes giving things away that are utter crap to most high-levels), help people with missions I know well, discuss strategy and tactics with people, recommend armor and mods, reveal what I know of aggro and so on.

I never give cash (being perpetually poor helps with that), but sometimes give crafting materials and so on.

There are things that are idiosyncratic that turn me off when people do them but overall if you're polite and actually in need, I'll help. One of my favorite things to do is go where I've done everything with my Monk and hang out looking for someone that needs a Monk. I don't wait long and I like to think I'm helping someone out.

Sometimes when I get an out of the blue whisper for help and I'm WAY overleveled, I'll get a lower level character of mine to run whatever the petitioner needs with them.

Okay, summarization:

I think we need to help newer players whenever possible and reasonable (this allows for personal parameters to be set) without actually doing everything for them. Provide them with information and occasional discounted items or crafting materials when you're feeling generous, but never feel compelled to provide anything at all. Remember that some things MUST be learned the hard way, yet other things aren't necessarily worth enduring.

Above all, remain civil and remember that the better those players become the better the GW community will be.

This goes along with what I was saying in my post as well. If you find people who are truely new to the game, help them with game tips, answers to questions, insight into skill use, teach them to call and attack called targets and so on. When one is truely new to the game, IMO, those are the things that help you out the most; not buying them the good equipment, running them to higher levels and so forth. If we teach the new people correctly then maybe we would have fewer problems in PUG's and such.

I usually help newbies by answering their questions and sometime take them for a free run to the next outpost. Usually if i have spare golds or items, i'll give them out for free.