Weapons... +5energy, 15^50, 15^-10AP or 15^-5energy

huMptY DumPty

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

[BAN]

W/

The more additional options ArenaNet provides us, the harder it seems to pick the "right choice" or might it be simply based on "individual preferance"?

To me, being a warrior and a ranger, it's really hard to pick in between these 4 options...
*** +5 energy = extra energy is welcome for anybody; but you lose that "extra" 15% damage crucial to deal at enemies
*** 15^50 = the old "perfect" classic. 15% damage while health above 50%... obviously the majority of the time we spend while attacking.
*** +15 Always -10AP = Hmm... +15% always but it takes away 10AP while attacking --- good option, but....
*** +15 Always -5energy = Eeek... +15% always but we lost 5 energy.... hmmm...

Which ones of the four you strongly recommend or like using for yourself...?

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

depends on your purpose.

I personally like the 15% -5 energy for a ranger. Its great vs energy denial, because you can just swap bows.

Hidden in the Mist

Hidden in the Mist

Banned

Join Date: May 2006

The stance one.

noblepaladin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Against high armor foes, the +5 energy is probably better. Your normal attack will probably deal something like 10 damage (or less if you are fighting some level 24 monster in PvE). However, if you use a skill, you can inflict armor ignoring damage. Also, energy allows you to spike more. This is of course, for warriors or rangers. Casters will always prefer +5 energy since they do not rely on normal attacks.

15^50 is useful in most situations. It's probably the most used one since there are no big drawbacks.

+15 with -10 AP is horrible for PvE. If you are a warrior, you will be getting hit a lot, you cannot afford to lose 10 armor, because you would take a lot more damage than that little extra you put out. Bad trade. For PvP, it's pretty decent. People tend not to focus attacks on the warrior, and many times they try to spike the warrior when he is not attacking (i.e. they do the spike as the warrior is running in, or while the warrior has been slowed by a spell so he cannot retreat).

+15 with -5 energy is the most reliable way to get +15% damage, nothing changes while you are attacking or while you are not over 50% hp. However, for a warrior, I think losing 25% of your base energy is too costly. Again, that 5 energy can be used on a special attack, which against higher armored foes is worth much more than 15%.

Another option 15% with -1 hp regeneration. I find this to be the worst of all of them. If you are willing to sacrifice a pip of regen, getting vampiric mod would probably deal more damage, and give you some healing. Also, you have to do some weapon switching to keep yourself from losing too much hp. If you are going to be switching, might as well get a 15^50 and another weapon to switch to when you don't have over 50% hp.

The 15% while enchanted or in stance is very build dependent. The 15% while enchanted is also very location dependent (does the enemies of disenchants? in PvP you can almost be certain that they do). The 15% in stance can actually be the most reliable if you are, say a W/Me using those long lasting inspiration stances (works well coupled with a stance shield).

Ryld Baenre

Ryld Baenre

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Ontario

Xen of Onlsaught, Reign of Xen [XoO]

W/N

As far as PvE is concerned I am content with my 15/-5 weapons. I wear some Gladiators armor so it makes up for the lost energy and I am usually running around with an offhand so it's not a problem. Even without an offhand my attack skills are Adrenaline based so I'm not using a whole lot of energy.

Cash

Cash

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Bound By Wild Desire [Wild]

i use 15^50 almost always. i find that i really like to be over 50% health, and when im not, im doing my best to get back to over 50% health and not attacking anyway (most times- PvE that is).

Lurid

Lurid

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/

When i'm on my Warrior, I generally use 15^50, unless I need the -5 energy weapon to say for instance hide my energy.

When i'm on my Monk / every other caster I play, I generally use a +5 energy Katana with an enchant mod. As it offers alittle more versatility IMO, especially when accompanied with a 20 / 20 cast / recharge offhand. Say for instance, I can use my Katana with my Boon Prot, Healer, and 55 without ever having to change my main.

On my Ranger, I use a 15% -10, as i'm far back and the extra damage is useful. If i'm getting attacked up close and personal then i'm doing something wrong, lol.

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

The 15% always options are only better than ^50 when you are below 50% which IMO doesn't happen enough to justify the rather large drawbacks.

ChildeOfMalkav

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

With the introduction of armor with such stats such as +armor while under preparation or +armor while conditioned, I wonder if new inate weapon mods will be introduced. It could get pretty creative and give a bit more variety.

morphium

morphium

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Random Arenas int dis 1

W/

15%/-10 on ranger.
15%/-5 on warrior.

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
The 15% always options are only better than ^50 when you are below 50% which IMO doesn't happen enough to justify the rather large drawbacks.
I should mention I'm only talking about warriors and only in serious pvp. PVE you can basically carry anything you want and it shouldnt matter.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

15% dmg from weapons only apply to the base weapon dmg. That's only a 2-3 dmg increase on a normal hit. The only time the 15% even makes a noticable difference is when you get a critical.

For wars I choose the +5 energy weapons for a 31 energy base (glads armor).

-10 armor bows for rangers are probly the best. I don't think you are going to stand around attacking while you are under pressure.

If you don't care about the small amount of dmg the 15% mod acually adds then go with +5 energy.

Retribution X

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

15%-5 on my adrenal sword warrior.

Tingi

Tingi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/

15^50 all the way for me. Wen my hp is under 50% i usually run or self heal anyway (or a monk heals me).

yesitsrob

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

On a warrior I go for 15^50 now - I used to like in stance a lot, I was frenzy happy.

I don't like -5 Energy on a warrior, especially on a hammer warrior, and also because I might not want to wear glads - i'll need more energy

+5 energy is sacrificing a decent amount of damage to get +5 energy, not worth it in my opinion

15 over 50 is +15% a vast majority of the time without any actual drawbacks, which is why I find it to be the best

erezsol

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/Me

To be honest, although i hate to admit it, I believe that it doesn't really matter. Maybe ANet gives multiple weapon options, but in magority, the differences are minor.

+5 energy will mostly benefit you with one additional strike per mob, not that big a deal.

Constant + damage is good, but not for the price of loosing armor (mainly for tanks).

To be short, all of these so-called-multiple-options actually serve to real value. Get any weapon with ok mod on it.

It all comes down to skill choice and talent.

my 2 cents.

boxterduke

boxterduke

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Walking the ruins of Ascalon

DVDF

Me/

All depends on your play style but I would have to say 15>50 is best.

I bought Gladiator to get the energy bonus, why would I use a -5 energy one.
Same for the -10 armor, I have sentinel and got it for the 100AL.

But to each his own.

milias

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

I use 15>50 exclusively, just me...

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

+5 energy because unlike the other mods, you have a variety of uses.

+5 energy could be used for anything from defensive stances, attack skills (which ignore armor), to enchantments.

FeroxC

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

EOA

P/W

I use +5 energy on daggers.

To an assasin whos the majority of attacks require energy(often 5). I find it more usefull since he doesnt have the time to wait around for it to recharge.

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

15>50 and 15 Stance for warrior (have same weapons w/ same mods in both)
15/-10 for my ranger
15>50 and +5 energy for assassin (have weaps with same mods for both)
my old origional +5 energy HoD sword for my monk

anonymous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

I find +5 energy useless on anything that is doing damage with their weapon. You say you can get one extra skill off, but after you have spent that 5 energy, it doesnt benifit you again until you wait for your energy to fully recharge, and if you have time to wait for your energy to recharge why do you need the extra 5 energy? 15^50 ftw.

Sir Skullcrasher

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

I perfer using 15% above 50 health mod althought those are rare to get and usually cause alot of golds to buy.

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

people seem to forget that there are a lot of people that do not customize weapons that way they can resell them at a later date. So someone who has a +5 energy sword customized vs a player who has a 15>50 sword that isnt customized will have the advantage. they will have a 20% dmg boost unconditionally and an extra +5 energy.

For pve my war does have a +5 energy sword that i run around with occasionally and it can be useful and still does very good dmg.

Katari

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
15% dmg from weapons only apply to the base weapon dmg. That's only a 2-3 dmg increase on a normal hit. The only time the 15% even makes a noticable difference is when you get a critical.

For wars I choose the +5 energy weapons for a 31 energy base (glads armor).

-10 armor bows for rangers are probly the best. I don't think you are going to stand around attacking while you are under pressure.

If you don't care about the small amount of dmg the 15% mod acually adds then go with +5 energy.
16 Axe mastery, 0 strength, using Wild Blow
15%^50 axe, unmodded, customized: 63 damage to a 60al target.
+5e axe, unmodded, customized:55 damage to a 60al target

against a 100al target, it was 31 vs 27 and 44 vs 39 against the 80al target.

The 15% damage mod is not insignifigant. Also, it is my understanding that the damage mods don't stack in an additive way, but multiply instead, so it's:
damage*1.20*1.15=damage*1.38
By loosing the 15% damage mod, you loose 18% damage,. not 15%.

If I am under 50% health, like others have mentioned I'm likely spending most of my time trying to hgeal, or get out of trouble. Most monks will heal a warrior before he/she is under 50% for any extended period of time. I don't like loosing energy or especialy armor just for a damage boost in bad situations. If I am under 50% health for long enough to make an unconditional mod worthwhile, then I have other issues to worry about.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katari
16 Axe mastery, 0 strength, using Wild Blow
15%^50 axe, unmodded, customized: 63 damage to a 60al target.
+5e axe, unmodded, customized:55 damage to a 60al target

against a 100al target, it was 31 vs 27 and 44 vs 39 against the 80al target.

The 15% damage mod is not insignifigant. Also, it is my understanding that the damage mods don't stack in an additive way, but multiply instead, so it's:
damage*1.20*1.15=damage*1.38
By loosing the 15% damage mod, you loose 18% damage,. not 15%.
Although, to put stuff in context, that is the situation in which the modifier will make the most difference - highest possible mastery, using a skill that gives an automatic critical (if I remember my skills right) and using a weapon that does a lot of damage on criticals.

In PvE, Gwenyth's sword (her preferred weapon) tends to do on the order of around ten damage to higher-level mobs before Conjure Flame and other skill use comes into play. The +15% when enchanted mod is probably contributing just one or two points to that (as I said, on the order of ten points).

Now, don't get me wrong, multiples of one or two points certainly add up - but unless you're expecting to get a lot of criticals or for most of your damage to come from regular attacks or critical-enhancing skills, you're not going to see the clear differences you do with Wild Blow. Most attack skills essentially ignore your weapon altogether in their effect, as long as it's the right type of weapon to use the skill. Basically, I just wanted to point out that while it does make a difference, you probably chose the example where it makes the most difference (or at least the most obvious difference)

Overall, though, it really does depend on your build. Use a lot of energy? Use the +5e weapon. Use a lot of enchantments or stances, use the appropriate weapon. Use bugger-all energy, use the +15%/-5e weapon. Don't expect to get hit, use the +15%/-10a weapon. If you don't fall easily into any of those categories, the +15%>50 is the way to go - possibly with a +20%/<50 for those rare cases where you're health is low and yet you want to or have to stay where you are for whatever reason.

lg5000

lg5000

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australia

+5 energy is great If you're running IW.. the question is, is it worth buying a 50k gothic axe with the +5 energy mod on it for the few times I use IW or should I just realise that IW means that it does not matter what weapon you use as the actual damage of the weapon doesn't count anyway.

Katari

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

Wild blow was used because it is a consistant damage attack. High mastery was used because high mastery is a good idea on a warrior (Altough 14 may have been more normal for PvE).

In the end, it is still roughly 18% more damage for each regular attack. I still haven't found a way to convert +5 max energy into such a damage buff, considering how unimportant max energy is compaired to regen and perhaps zealous.

With the exception of weapon swaping to deal with e-denial, there is no compelling reason to use anything but a 15^50, or perhaps a 15/-5 in PvP. If you for some reason need a sudden burst of energy, swap to a +5e weapon. However, you might as well swap to a staff in that case, since if you're just swaping to cast, damage is irrelevent anyways.

The point is, if you need sudden energy, swap weapons, cast, and then swap back. But using a +5e weapon on a warrior non-stop simply for the max energy is not the best choice.