Pro Questions on Daggers

GerryHYH

GerryHYH

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Brighton, England

The Imperial Guards Elite

A/Me

As usual, I always equip 4 daggers in my inventory, from shiro daggers to ceremonial etc etc, but I bought a zodiac dagger with >15% dmg with max dmg etc, and I want to customise them into my own preference, however, I have

2 Questions on daggers tough=

1) From your personal opinion, whats your favourite dagger upgrades, both Tang and dagger handle? I'm thinking of 20/20 armour penatration, but is that actually any goood? For the dagger handle, was thinking +30 health. All opionions and suggestions preciate it

2) When you dye zodiac daggers, the shiny gold light will be changed, but what colour looks best in your opionion?

As I said, any comments, ideas and suggestions will be preciated it, thanks!

oddi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Norway / Sandnes

The Wailing Lords

E/

as for the daggers u should have 1 set with zealous+fortitude and another one with vampiric+fortitude on the last set one with elemental dmg+enchanting..
the elemental daggers can also have +5energy insead of 15^50 or whatsoever..

when u have energyproblems use the zealous set and when u want the extra dmg go for the vampiric set.. if u need the abit more energy just swap to the elemental set.. elemental dmg is also really good to use against warriors :P
the 3 daggers set mention above is my personal choose of upgrades to daggers that is getting used mostly for PvP

Bigb04202

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

I like all those but I also like the mode that add daze for 33% longer when I run a build that has daze.

GerryHYH

GerryHYH

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Brighton, England

The Imperial Guards Elite

A/Me

hehe, know what u mean oddi, but than again, is 20/20 actually any good? Some people say they suck tough!....

GerryHYH

GerryHYH

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Brighton, England

The Imperial Guards Elite

A/Me

hehe, know what u mean oddi, but than again, is 20/20 actually any good? Some people say they suck tough!....

fallot

I'm the king

Join Date: Nov 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryHYH
hehe, know what u mean oddi, but than again, is 20/20 actually any good? Some people say they suck tough!.... Sundering is a poor mod, I can't think of a single place where I would use it over a different one.

zeno

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryHYH
hehe, know what u mean oddi, but than again, is 20/20 actually any good? Some people say they suck tough!.... sundering is only expensive because people don't do math. It triggers 1/5 of the time when you use a dagger attack skill, then it give 20% penetration. The added dmg gets beaten out by vampiric very fast.

The good thing about sundering, is that it's all-situational, albeit subpar in all situations. Against non-warriors vampiric is better, against warriors elemental is better. For other situations you have zealous/poisonous/ect. And since you'll be have 4 sets of daggers to switch in between, there's really not point in getting sundering 20/20, ever.

GerryHYH

GerryHYH

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Brighton, England

The Imperial Guards Elite

A/Me

Hmmm, okies :S Also, for daggers, slashing damage or piercing damage?

Slashing is common in melee, but for some reason I perfer it, it seems to me it does more damage...

Peircing Daggers, in GW Wiki, it says it does slighly more damage, since its "Piercing".... and another down side is several classes have bonus on aromour agaisnt percing...

Suggestions?

RotteN

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

both slashing and piercing are types of physical damage, as far as i know, there is no difference in damage (piercing does not have some sort of build in armor penetration). On the other hand, skills like "shields up" and armors like necro bonelace royally RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up piercing damage, so i'd go with slashing

Triple Evel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Order Of Noble Excellence {ONE}

N/

i dont know why people hate the sundering effect ... well i know its not that useful for assasins with no massive damge rush , just like 16 on dagger , with desperate strike , the strike occurs to be critical and penetrates armor .. just imagine how much will it deal !! ..... anyway , i use sundering mod and it works great BUT if u have more than a dagger u have no need for that mod .. well when u go with 20/20 and fast attack will help on killing faster ( vampiric hp degen culd be bad sometimes ) ...

fallot

I'm the king

Join Date: Nov 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Evel
i dont know why people hate the sundering effect Because its meant to deal damage, and Vampiric deals more damage. For PvE, the high price of a perfect one makes it even more worthless than it is. With a Vampiric mod, you gain more health than you lose, so why would anyone prefer Sundering ?

Horseman Of War

Horseman Of War

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Cult of Doom

P/

dude, if you spent a million gold on some stupid daggers maybe you shouldve looked into this information first.

and btw, homeslice- dying a zodiac will only change the little orbs, not the color of the glow...

you said you had every green- so why waste all your time and money on some novelty that you will never get off in pvp?

Celab

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

[VENT]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallot
Sundering is a poor mod, I can't think of a single place where I would use it over a different one. When running judge's insight aswell? Heh... hardly noticable anyway

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Everthorn's Chakram's are the worlds best daggers.

Skuld

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

15^50? Stance or enchantment are better for assassins imo, more controllable. Assassins don't generally stay above 50 O_O

silverwyng

silverwyng

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Heroes of Hobby Haven

A/Me

4 daggers in your weapon set? you don't have a no req longbow for pulling [assuming you pve of course]?

i go with zealous, +5 energy and defense mod on 1, vamp, fortitude on the 2nd, and lou's karambits on the 3rd slot. that's the perfect setup for me. right now, i'm using shreader's talons because of my build.

Tainek

Tainek

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

[Rage]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
15^50? Stance or enchantment are better for assassins imo, more controllable. Assassins don't generally stay above 50 O_O
Correction Bad Assassins Dont stay over 50 , a good Assassin pops in an out to spike, and if they are below 50% hp, they shouldnt be attacking


If you decide to use Aura Of Displacement then Enchant daggers are the way to go though


Mine:

Zealos 15>50 / 15>Ench (Depending on AoD usage) +30Hp
+5 Energy +30Hp Sword + Candy Sheild (For If i have to retreat)
Elemental 15>50/ 15>Ench (AoD) +30HP
+Duration 15>50 +30HP Daggers (Bleeding, dazed ect depends on build)

pve-er

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
15^50? Stance or enchantment are better for assassins imo, more controllable. Assassins don't generally stay above 50 O_O If I go below 50, I probably running away from agro or about to die
a good Sin at life below 60%(which is the seconf attack one recieve) should already be on his/her escape, not stand there attacking.

my weapon set:
1. Vempiric Butterfly Knife of Fortitute (3/1, 15%>50, HP+30, customized) all out damage,
2. Sundering Dragon Fang of Fortitute (20^19, 15% Enchanted, HP+29, customized) on the run (I might make in air damage later)
3. Zealous Oni Dagger of Fortitute (1/1 EN+5, HP+30) all out energy combo, my primary weapon
4. Zealous Long Bow (1/1, EN+5) use it to pull, just happend to have these mod when I get it
extra: Protective Icon and Healing Ahk, use it when I equip 3+ slot of healing/protection skill as runner or need to help healing other (in early Kryta quest/mission I was forced to be healer in teh group )

Skuld

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainek
Correction Bad Assassins Dont stay over 50 , a good Assassin pops in an out to spike, and if they are below 50% hp, they shouldnt be attacking


If you decide to use Aura Of Displacement then Enchant daggers are the way to go though


Mine:

Zealos 15>50 / 15>Ench (Depending on AoD usage) +30Hp
+5 Energy +30Hp Sword + Candy Sheild (For If i have to retreat)
Elemental 15>50/ 15>Ench (AoD) +30HP
+Duration 15>50 +30HP Daggers (Bleeding, dazed ect depends on build) How does taking dmg make you bad? Just because you aren't in front doesn't mean you will always be unscathed Oo

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

"a good Assassin pops in an out to spike, and if they are below 50% hp, they shouldnt be attacking" -- I agree, in principle, that this is the baseline from which assassins should operate.

But take Fort Aspenwood, Kurzick, for example. Teleport out from rez into main area. Instantly be blasted by siege turtle, lose 50% hit points. Activate Shadow Refuge, try to do something in the cause of defense of the green gate before a turtle fires again and finishes you off, or the deranged hammer men smash you into instant oblivion, or a Luxon with a ranged attack notices you. Teams being random there may not be a monk, and the rest of your team members are either dead or too far away to be of any use.

Tainek

Tainek

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

[Rage]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
How does taking dmg make you bad? Just because you aren't in front doesn't mean you will always be unscathed Oo taking damage doesnt mark on yoru skill, but if your are below 50% health, You Should Not be Attacking anymore, as there is an Imminent Risk of death



And wilebill , if you are in that situation, you flee from battle, and return at full health, else your are just wasting time kamakazi

Fluffyx

Fluffyx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Courtney PantsuLand

Death By Teazu [TEA]

W/Mo

I actually dislike vampiric very much on anything but a bow.
Though I do keep a vampiric dagger handy.
Heres what I carry.

1. 15^50 33%bleeding +30hp
2. 15^50 zealous +30hp
3. 15^50 vamp +30 hp

I tend to stay away from vamp items especially on my sin. If you're hitting something long enough for vamp to actually outdamage another mod in PvE you're going to die. What do you think is what gave assassins their bad rep. in the first place. Spike and keep it moving. :]

Slashing > Piercing in most cases.

TaiClaw

TaiClaw

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

AUS

A/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffyx
I actually dislike vampiric very much on anything but a bow.
Though I do keep a vampiric dagger handy.
Heres what I carry.

1. 15^50 33%bleeding +30hp
2. 15^50 zealous +30hp
3. 15^50 vamp +30 hp

I tend to stay away from vamp items especially on my sin. If you're hitting something long enough for vamp to actually outdamage another mod in PvE you're going to die. What do you think is what gave assassins their bad rep. in the first place. Spike and keep it moving. :]

Slashing > Piercing in most cases. 2 words, Shiro's Blades.

At first I thought these work crap, like zomg req 15, but now i've seen the light. Putting 15 in DM boosts your damage by an insane amount. If you can build up a Dagger Mastery combo, you drop things so quickly.

I can crit Death Blossom on 4 targets for 80+ , and I auto attack targets for 30+ (Having 15+ in DM gives you 2 hits per swing).

I have changed by build now to Impale/Ironpalm/FS/TF then Palm Strike + Death Blossom. My best hit with Death Blossom was 80 + 40 (Dual attack + Extra Attack) and there no doubt in my mind that I could double crit 80/80.

Perfect Scenario, Palm Strike for 50, Deathblossom for 80, then 80. whats that 210 in 2 Seconds? I've gone hypocritical now, I said that survivability in pvp is more important, but now i've seen what sort of damage I can dish out. So my surviviblity is kept at a minimum, and I charge in (full Nightstalker armour) and unleash.

Whether or not I survive is another story, tho atleast I know whatever my target was, is dead.

/end rant.

Buy Shiro's Blades, they cost about 10k now. There awesome.

tuperwho

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tenacious Knights of Doom [TKD]

IMO, there's only one legit way to mod any melee weapon or bow: vampiric ___ of defense. Then you carry anything to switch out between battles, or use a simple self heal occasionally.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Tuperwho, Fortitude is waaaaaaaaay better. ( flame me )

tuperwho

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Tenacious Knights of Doom [TKD]

I respectfully disagree.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Most damage in PvP is armour ignoring: defense is useless.

narud

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

sundering is not that great, but i would never say vamp is either. My assasin has 12 totally different daggers, he switches daggers before he uses a skill. Ive perfected doing this, cast palmstrike, horns of the ox, switch to poison dags, FS, switching to bleeding, TFT. T do that you gotta be fast so you dont waste time, of course if im too lazy to do the switching, i use zealous because my combo takes 30 energy. When combo is done run away, since i went for the caster, the caster is dead or dying, and in things like fort aspenwood where monks are VERY rare, that target cant save themselves. Ive seen someone with 1/4 of their hp left and dye from my bleeding(funny as hell).

*cough* use fortitude instead of defense, in pve use defense *cough*

RemusShepherd

RemusShepherd

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaiClaw
Perfect Scenario, Palm Strike for 50, Deathblossom for 80, then 80. whats that 210 in 2 Seconds? Um....I have maxed Critical Hits instead of Dagger Mastery. I Palm Strike for 80, then get dual Twisting Fangs hits for 30+ each, plus Deep Wound. I think that's better than your combo...and it's only two skills on my attack chain.

I use a Cruel dagger tang (lengthens Deep Wound). Haven't found a good Zealous or Vampiric yet.

TaiClaw

TaiClaw

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

AUS

A/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Um....I have maxed Critical Hits instead of Dagger Mastery. I Palm Strike for 80, then get dual Twisting Fangs hits for 30+ each, plus Deep Wound. I think that's better than your combo...and it's only two skills on my attack chain.

I use a Cruel dagger tang (lengthens Deep Wound). Haven't found a good Zealous or Vampiric yet. Yeah, my entire Combo is *in this order* Way of the Lotus/Iron Palm/Falling Spider/Twisint Fangs/Palm Strike/Death Blossom.

There is no downtime thanks to way of the lotus. Meaning right after I lay down twising fangs, I can Palm Strike and Death Blossom straight after.


p.s My Twising Fangs hit for 30+ aswell, because I deal more damage with daggers, and I go extra attacks ontop of attacks.

So I have all those conditions aswell.

RemusShepherd

RemusShepherd

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaiClaw
Yeah, my entire Combo is *in this order* Way of the Lotus/Iron Palm/Falling Spider/Twisint Fangs/Palm Strike/Death Blossom.

So I have all those conditions aswell. Yeah, and you're putting the Deep Wound on first, which is probably more effective.

I just can't see myself, in PvE, putting 6 attack skills in the skill bar. Need more versatility than that. The longest combo I've ever used in PvE was four attack skills...most things die to that anyway.