Guild Wars Guru

Defensive Rits might want to know this...

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TomD22
TomD22
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #1
I've been playing defensive Rit in GvG a lot recently and was testing the way the spirits work yesterday (following an idea from someone in my alliance). It seems that the effects of spirits trigger in the order that you created them, or rather, the order that they appear stacked on a players 'enchants/conditions/effects/etc on you' bar.

I was looking specifically at shelter and union. Say you have 500 health (to keep the maths easy) and you take 100 damage.

If the Rit had put down union first, then shelter, then union will trigger it's effect before shelter does. So in this case it would be:

100 damage
-15 from Union
=85
Reduced to 10% health (50) from Shelter
=50 damage taken.

Union's effect is wasted reducing the damage first to 85, because then shelter just reduces the 85 to 50 and it could have done that right from 100.

However, if the Rit has put down Shelter first and then Union:

100
Reduced to 10% health (50) by shelter
=50
-15 from Union
=35 damage taken.

Here Shelter first reduces the damage taken to 50 and then union triggers and is actually useful this time to reduce it further to 35.

So just something for a rit to bear in mind to get the best use out of spirits.
Sagius Truthbarron
Sagius Truthbarron
Desert Nomad
• #2
Thanks. Very useful if it actually works and/or doesn't get "fixed"
R
Rajamic
Wilds Pathfinder
• #3
Can't say I've tested it, but it sounds right. And I doubt ANet considers it anything that should be "fixed", as this is the way Ranger spirits (like Quickening Zephyr and Energizing Wind) have stacked since at least release.
jackie
jackie
/retired
• #4
Yep, it works with same concept as stacking hexes,enchants & whatnots.
RTSFirebat
RTSFirebat
The Humanoid Typhoon
• #5
Sweet, what defence rit build do you use TomD22?
Slainster
Slainster
Wilds Pathfinder
• #6
Good to know, ty
TomD22
TomD22
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
Thanks. Very useful if it actually works and/or doesn't get "fixed" Yep, it definitly does work - i tested it by getting a guildie to nuke me with the catapault in Isle of the Nameless after putting the spirits up in different orders and compared the damage i took.
TomD22
TomD22
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #8
Quote: Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Sweet, what defence rit build do you use TomD22? Our current GvG ritualist build is:

Shelter, Displacement, Union, Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Flesh of my Flesh. 15 (12+1+2) spawning, 14 (12+2) communing, 3 (2+1) restoration. Fairly standard really.
m
mega_jamie
Wilds Pathfinder
• #9
As far as I know this works, its how ive been playing Shelter/Union build
A
Arothar
Ascalonian Squire
• #10
What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag
Kakumei
Kakumei
Forge Runner
• #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Arothar
What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag Seeing as how they have completely different effects, the order doesn't matter.
d
dare49devil
Wilds Pathfinder
• #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Arothar
What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag LOL, what a RANDOM asshole comment. That made my laugh.
Count to Potato
Count to Potato
Jungle Guide
• #13
This can't be fixed other than keepiong it at shelter > union, or union >s shelter everytime, very nice to no tho
remmeh
remmeh
Wilds Pathfinder
• #14
i've always used Shelter-Union in that order. and i've noticed the stacking effects when I recast shelter but not union. good to know.
Fate
Fate
Elite Guru
• #15
Greater Conflag
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all physical damage is
fire damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

Winter
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all elemental damage is cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

That means that if someone does physical dmg, greater turns it to fire dmg, and since fire is elemental dmg then winter turns it to cold. So all physical dmg becomes cold. However, if Winter triggers before Greater conflag then it determines the dmg is physical and ignores it and then greater changes the physical to fire.


Quote: Originally Posted by dare49devil LOL, what a RANDOM asshole comment. That made my laugh. Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakumei
Seeing as how they have completely different effects, the order doesn't matter. I'd suggest researching the skills before you post.
T
TheYellowKid
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TomD22
Our current GvG ritualist build is:

Shelter, Displacement, Union, Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Flesh of my Flesh. 15 (12+1+2) spawning, 14 (12+2) communing, 3 (2+1) restoration. Fairly standard really. I still find Disenchant a waste of a slot because it doesnt last long enough to be that useful, i always prefer to bring another spirit or support move
Kakumei
Kakumei
Forge Runner
• #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Fate Greater Conflag
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all physical damage is
fire damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

Winter
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all elemental damage is cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

That means that if someone does physical dmg, greater turns it to fire dmg, and since fire is elemental dmg then winter turns it to cold. So all physical dmg becomes cold. However, if Winter triggers before Greater conflag then it determines the dmg is physical and ignores it and then greater changes the physical to fire.

I'd suggest researching the skills before you post. I'd suggest researching the skills before you post
TomD22
TomD22
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TheYellowKid
I still find Disenchant a waste of a slot because it doesnt last long enough to be that useful, i always prefer to bring another spirit or support move I'm not too happy with disenchantment either to be honest. It's too expensive, and it requires me to push too far forwards to place it where it's of most use which is not a good idea seeing as the build this rit is used for has no monks and i'm therefore our primary defense, so i mustn't get into a position where i can be attacked. Due to all this, and the fact i'm usually busy enough with the Shelter-Union-Displacement i don't tend to get a chance to use Disenchantment very much. Although the same arguments might also apply to shadowsong, that only needs to blind attacking wars/assasins really (leaving rangers hiding at the back out of this) and so it can be placed further back where i'm safer. It's also cheaper.

However, disenchant is nice for annoying boon-prots seeing as they rely on enchants, and can help confuse things when we spike as teams often look for enchant removal to see which target is next.

What other spirit might you suggest in that slot though? We tried having vital weapon to put on key people (ie flagger capping) when needed but again i have to come too close to the battle to use it and it didn't seem to achieve very much. I haven't yet tried soothing but vs a warrior-heavy team that could be nice. Has anyone fought with wars against soothing? How annoying did you find it? What else can anyone think of to put in this slot? No damage skills as we're a spike so the rit does not need to contribute damage.
Dahnel
Dahnel
Wilds Pathfinder
• #19
another useful thing to know about targeting spirits is that spells like soul twisting can be cast on yourself but will affect the last spirit you targeted, which is useful when your trying to consume soul something but cant find your target you just hit f then <insert spirit targeting skill here>.

(dont know if this was posted yet lol so i might just be repeating someone)
TomD22
TomD22
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #20
Right, i finally tracked down my thread (searching is disabled so it took me a while). Why on earth has it been moved to the pve section of the forum? This information applies to the game in general, although I'm talking personally from a pvp-oriented viewpoint.