Defensive Rits might want to know this...

TomD22

TomD22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

I've been playing defensive Rit in GvG a lot recently and was testing the way the spirits work yesterday (following an idea from someone in my alliance). It seems that the effects of spirits trigger in the order that you created them, or rather, the order that they appear stacked on a players 'enchants/conditions/effects/etc on you' bar.

I was looking specifically at shelter and union. Say you have 500 health (to keep the maths easy) and you take 100 damage.

If the Rit had put down union first, then shelter, then union will trigger it's effect before shelter does. So in this case it would be:

100 damage
-15 from Union
=85
Reduced to 10% health (50) from Shelter
=50 damage taken.

Union's effect is wasted reducing the damage first to 85, because then shelter just reduces the 85 to 50 and it could have done that right from 100.

However, if the Rit has put down Shelter first and then Union:

100
Reduced to 10% health (50) by shelter
=50
-15 from Union
=35 damage taken.

Here Shelter first reduces the damage taken to 50 and then union triggers and is actually useful this time to reduce it further to 35.

So just something for a rit to bear in mind to get the best use out of spirits.

Sagius Truthbarron

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

Thanks. Very useful if it actually works and/or doesn't get "fixed"

Rajamic

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

IA

Chronicles of Heroes [CoH]

R/Me

Can't say I've tested it, but it sounds right. And I doubt ANet considers it anything that should be "fixed", as this is the way Ranger spirits (like Quickening Zephyr and Energizing Wind) have stacked since at least release.

jackie

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

Yep, it works with same concept as stacking hexes,enchants & whatnots.

RTSFirebat

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

Sweet, what defence rit build do you use TomD22?

Slainster

Slainster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Good to know, ty

TomD22

TomD22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
Thanks. Very useful if it actually works and/or doesn't get "fixed" Yep, it definitly does work - i tested it by getting a guildie to nuke me with the catapault in Isle of the Nameless after putting the spirits up in different orders and compared the damage i took.

TomD22

TomD22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Sweet, what defence rit build do you use TomD22? Our current GvG ritualist build is:

Shelter, Displacement, Union, Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Flesh of my Flesh. 15 (12+1+2) spawning, 14 (12+2) communing, 3 (2+1) restoration. Fairly standard really.

mega_jamie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

UK

Warlords of Ruin

A/Mo

As far as I know this works, its how ive been playing Shelter/Union build

Arothar

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

Fellowship of Flanders

R/E

What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arothar
What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag Seeing as how they have completely different effects, the order doesn't matter.

dare49devil

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Danbury, Connecticut

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arothar
What about

Greater conflag + winter

and

winter + greater conflag LOL, what a RANDOM asshole comment. That made my laugh.

Count to Potato

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

This can't be fixed other than keepiong it at shelter > union, or union >s shelter everytime, very nice to no tho

remmeh

remmeh

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Apathy Inc [AI]

R/Mo

i've always used Shelter-Union in that order. and i've noticed the stacking effects when I recast shelter but not union. good to know.

Fate

Fate

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

New England, USA

Shadow Knights [SK]

Mo/Me

Greater Conflag
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all physical damage is
fire damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

Winter
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all elemental damage is cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

That means that if someone does physical dmg, greater turns it to fire dmg, and since fire is elemental dmg then winter turns it to cold. So all physical dmg becomes cold. However, if Winter triggers before Greater conflag then it determines the dmg is physical and ignores it and then greater changes the physical to fire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dare49devil
LOL, what a RANDOM asshole comment. That made my laugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakumei
Seeing as how they have completely different effects, the order doesn't matter. I'd suggest researching the skills before you post.

TheYellowKid

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Mina Sucks [Blz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD22
Our current GvG ritualist build is:

Shelter, Displacement, Union, Shadowsong, Disenchantment, Ritual Lord, Boon of Creation, Flesh of my Flesh. 15 (12+1+2) spawning, 14 (12+2) communing, 3 (2+1) restoration. Fairly standard really. I still find Disenchant a waste of a slot because it doesnt last long enough to be that useful, i always prefer to bring another spirit or support move

Kakumei

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate
Greater Conflag
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all physical damage is
fire damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

Winter
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all elemental damage is cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

That means that if someone does physical dmg, greater turns it to fire dmg, and since fire is elemental dmg then winter turns it to cold. So all physical dmg becomes cold. However, if Winter triggers before Greater conflag then it determines the dmg is physical and ignores it and then greater changes the physical to fire.

I'd suggest researching the skills before you post. I'd suggest researching the skills before you post

TomD22

TomD22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYellowKid
I still find Disenchant a waste of a slot because it doesnt last long enough to be that useful, i always prefer to bring another spirit or support move I'm not too happy with disenchantment either to be honest. It's too expensive, and it requires me to push too far forwards to place it where it's of most use which is not a good idea seeing as the build this rit is used for has no monks and i'm therefore our primary defense, so i mustn't get into a position where i can be attacked. Due to all this, and the fact i'm usually busy enough with the Shelter-Union-Displacement i don't tend to get a chance to use Disenchantment very much. Although the same arguments might also apply to shadowsong, that only needs to blind attacking wars/assasins really (leaving rangers hiding at the back out of this) and so it can be placed further back where i'm safer. It's also cheaper.

However, disenchant is nice for annoying boon-prots seeing as they rely on enchants, and can help confuse things when we spike as teams often look for enchant removal to see which target is next.

What other spirit might you suggest in that slot though? We tried having vital weapon to put on key people (ie flagger capping) when needed but again i have to come too close to the battle to use it and it didn't seem to achieve very much. I haven't yet tried soothing but vs a warrior-heavy team that could be nice. Has anyone fought with wars against soothing? How annoying did you find it? What else can anyone think of to put in this slot? No damage skills as we're a spike so the rit does not need to contribute damage.

Dahnel

Dahnel

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Rt/Me

another useful thing to know about targeting spirits is that spells like soul twisting can be cast on yourself but will affect the last spirit you targeted, which is useful when your trying to consume soul something but cant find your target you just hit f then <insert spirit targeting skill here>.

(dont know if this was posted yet lol so i might just be repeating someone)

TomD22

TomD22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right, i finally tracked down my thread (searching is disabled so it took me a while). Why on earth has it been moved to the pve section of the forum? This information applies to the game in general, although I'm talking personally from a pvp-oriented viewpoint.

Crazyvietguy

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate
Greater Conflag
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all physical damage is
fire damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

Winter
Create a level 1...8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, all elemental damage is cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds.

That means that if someone does physical dmg, greater turns it to fire dmg, and since fire is elemental dmg then winter turns it to cold. So all physical dmg becomes cold. However, if Winter triggers before Greater conflag then it determines the dmg is physical and ignores it and then greater changes the physical to fire.

I'd suggest researching the skills before you post. I'd suggest telling us what the hell your talking about, saying

"doesnt that mean greater conflag and winter work? GC-W"

because i dont think anyone was like, oh yeah physical damage from greater conflag converted into fire damage which then paired with winter makes all damage, cold damage, duh. And if you did, hand clap for you. So dont think your some genius just cause you dont explain what your saying, your just a smartass

chrislee149

chrislee149

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Kansas City Hotsteppers [KCHS]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
I'd suggest telling us what the hell your talking about, saying

"doesnt that mean greater conflag and winter work? GC-W"

because i dont think anyone was like, oh yeah physical damage from greater conflag converted into fire damage which then paired with winter makes all damage, cold damage, duh. And if you did, hand clap for you. So dont think your some genius just cause you dont explain what your saying, your just a smartass ...Fate didn't even say that comment. Arothar did. Fate just explained it well. Anyway, I thought it was pretty obvious what Arothar's question was about.

On topic, thanks for testing and posting this. I'll have to keep it in mind when I use Communing. Right now I'm Restoration and my spirits' effects don't really interact.