Remember the game is called Guild Wars not Cookie-Cutter wars

I have this same problem with guilds. As a matter of fact, me and another person on here invented minion factory a long time ago, and I still make up builds to this day. With all the new skills out, it makes it so much more fun to invent builds. Perhaps they don't always work, but a lot of the time it's fun to just fight guilds and keep them guessing because we're not anything like they think we are. Of course my guild disbanded a long time ago, and I'm looking for a new one that still believes in these simple plans of GVG, HOH, TA, and mind stimulating inventing. It just really bothers me to see touch rangers and IWAY.

I decided to PUG a mission yesterday and felt sorry before even going in. Once we were in it went smoothly, but it took forever to get a team, because the leader wanted a cooky cutter team setup. 2 tanks, 2 monks, 1 echo nuker, 1 ranger, 1 MM, 1 SS.
There was a severe shortage of Necro's and monks, and not that much E/Me arround either, but any other class combination just wouldn't do. It saddened me, there was a mesmer looking for a group! I like mesmers, I like to have them in my party, but he wouldn't even think about inviting him because the last spot was for a SS.

because he is a noob

I bet your poisonous pet will be the new metagame congrats!

Yeah.. this does suck. Playing my nec, i generally dont advertise a specific build. My pref is blood spiker, personally i dont find SS as effective, and MM, although loads of fun, is high maintenance.

When I play PvE though, I see myself switching to MM to be able to get into groups... that or just saying Im an SS and using the build I mentioned.... hehehe its not like anyone ever notices

~prime[/QUOTE]

These solutions could be changed when you look at alot of the mob layouts in guild wars you ussualy see alot more of certain classes or builds within the enemies that spawn around guild wars making tanks very effective and mm usefull due to being able to take the pressure off groups due to minions.
If anet were to vary mobs a little it might make certain classes more usefull in certain situations.

I mean all anet would have to do is to make more layouts of monster spawns that counter and hurt the more used proffesions.

Reminds me of ages back when the whole order and mm barragers/pets thing that would do tombs runs.

I decided to go trapper Instead of the normal barrager of course still bringing a pet for mm. This was before the minion nerf.
I brought skills like healing springs whirling defence, sheilds up dust trap barbed confort and charm pet skills it varied. Mainly built around the idea of increasing the minions armour with sheilds up and dust trap for blinding healing springs for healing. We got through tombs in quick time yet people left at start of game because I wasnt a barrager.

Thoe rember this and rember it well.

In life we have the sheep of the world who copy each other, its just the same as guild wars thank god the so called creative people still exist.

I'm aware that this game isn't life - believe it or not and your statement has contributed to the "disgusting level of arrogance in this thread". It doesn't bother me that much - its more of a confusion issue for me. I play the game to relax but 'relaxation' doesn't imply that you are brain dead and only capable of copying things. If I were to leave Guild Wars it would be to escape the elitists <of which i will not name any names> but not because of cookie-cutter builds. Not like its a huge deal but I accepted it a long time ago. I was just putting a word in - if you don't like that, accept it or leave the forum.

Cookie cutter or not, I think it really comes down to how the build is played and even moreso on how well the you use the build to react and adapt with your teammates to overcome the opposition.

This is probably why I can't stand the RA anymore. Because there isn't that much room for adaptation and teamwork as there is in Team Arenas or in GvGs. (because who you get as a teammate is really a #@#$shoot

Well, in the end, if I'm setting a GvG up or a TA team, I would much rather take a Shock Axe Warrior a crazy mystery warrior.

so you judged him by 2 skills?

i take it in your build you had charm animal and maybe comfort animal? does this make you a cookie cutter pet/barrager?

what an incredibly judgemental person you are

^ word up homeboy

Sorry nOOb question, but am new. Where can i find more info on the cookie cutter, MM and SS you all talk about?

Where do all these 'cookie cutter' builds come from anyway? Someone thought out these builds, found out that it works well, and then people found out about it.

Simple fact: 99% of "test builds" royally suck.

I'd take a cookie cutter over a "losing test build" any day.

The game may not be called "Cookie Cutter Wars", but it is also not called "Losing Test Build Wars".

It is not like I am going to observe every single skill he used, but he fought exactly the same style that most other SS Necros do. Like I said, I have NO problems what-so-ever if people play cookie-cutter builds, UNLESS they flame and abuse people who play non cookie-cutter builds.

I did not flame or abuse that necro for using Arcane Echo + SS. I was okay with him. But he certainly abused me for using a pet that uses Poison Bite.

You have to keep improving and altering "losing test builds" until they become good builds. If you have a W/Mo and think Mending is rubbish, switch it to Vigorous Spirit. I did this with my ex-Mending Wammo and now he has become a more efficient Wammo.

I feel sorry for you. Are you telling me you do not have the ability to design something for yourself?

PS: The build I used was is no longer a "test build" because I have testd it A LOT an it works great. I find it funny that you see only 2 types of builds - Test builds and Cookie-cutter builds.

I don't know if I have the ability to design something myself or not. The point is, why would I want to? There is no worthwhile reason to.

Why would I want to spend time losing during a "testing" phase?

For me, and I think, for most players:

Winning = fun.

Losing = boring.

Which is precisely why cookie cutter builds will always dominate Guild Wars.

I can see your point about you made a good new build, and that's respectable. But, for every one like you with a good new build, the 99 others doing "something new" will be a handicap to their team and make it akin to 3v4 for the enemy team. Do you see that side of the coin as well?

These types of builds are around the forums. That or ask basically anyone in game.

"Boon/Prot" isn't a build it is a skill and a strategy.

"Minion Master" isn't a build it is a strategy.

"Shock Warrior" normally refers to an ax build... but their aren't that many ax skills to begin with. Could also refer to a sword varient.

"Knockdown Warrior", strategy not a build
.
"SS necro" Few skills and a strategy.

"Bonder" Two skills and a strategy
...

When played by a good player, "cookie cutter builds" are often effective strategies. Bad players can take the same skills and be horrible. These builds have been around for a while largely because they can't be easily countered.

I love making my own builds which are extremely nuts at times, but they also tend to be incredibly gimmicky or easier when done another way. Sometimes you find yourself doing something with 4 skills that you'd do just as well with 2 skills. The OP was talking about using poison bite... why not drop the pet and just bring apply poison? Now you have at least 2 slots free to increase the damage of your sword attacks. Gimmicks are often countered by a single skill: a single target condition builds die hard to mend condition, a fairly common monk skill. IW gets owned by enchantment removal, but still slips under the radar many times in RA.

I enjoy taking this game somewhat seriously and if I didn't it really wouldn't be as fun. I don't take RA seriously and I often use it to test builds. I have gimmick RA builds which would last 30 seconds in TA, but they get 10 wins in random arenas. "Cookie cutter" builds are good to learn and understand if you want to be a well rounded guild wars player, but they aren't necessary to casual players.

Top PvP teams are constantly adjusting, modifying and overhauling their builds. Their isn't one exact build, let along build type which is universal in top end PvP. Guild wars has more than enough strategic depth to tinker and provide an amazing competitive environment, but this doesn't mean that it is easy to come up with combinations that rival popular cookie-cutters.

I was not losing much even in my testing phase. I altered the skills around to suit the conditions of the battle. For example you don't want to bring Sprint if you know that nobody is going to run away from you. Building your own character is that simple. You don't need to pull your hair thinking of something new.

Somebody in this thread mentioned that these forums encourage cookie-cutter builds. I disagree. To the contrary, these forums are against cookie-cutter, since I always see people say "Please give me suggestions on my new build" or "Here is a build I designed myslef, what do you's think of it".

There are benefits of bringing non-cookie cutter. First off, people don't know how to counter you properly if they do not know what your build looks like. For example, when I played a non-cookie-cutter Me/W that does not use Ilusion Weapon, I noticed that everybody was using "Shatter Enchantment" or "Strip Enchantment" on me, thinking I have Illusion Weapon, even thought I had no enchantments. They just wasted their energy on me. See what I mean?

It is okay to play cookie-cutter. However it is not okay to flame people who do not play cookie-cutter like that SS Necro in my thread.


I would think that by the time somebody reaches RA/TA and has played GW for at least 30 hours, they have designed their own build and it works reasonably well. The "testing phase" is normally during the beginning of PvE or the first time they entered a PvP mission.

Apply poison has an energy cost of 15 (if I can remember properly), and it is hard for a warrior sometimes. If I have Death Penalty, my total Energy might be too low to even use it. Still, I havent tested Apply Poison yet, but will in the future. Thanks for the advice. As for pet auto-attack vs Adrenaline skills for swords, the thing about Adrenaline skills is they are almost useless if you are blinded, which is what happens a lot in PvP. As for pets, nobody bothers to blind them, so in practise I find pets more effective that adrenaline skills in PvP. Thats ust my opinion.

These threads are so stupid. Basically the only reason you made the thread in the first place was to show how cool you are, and how "hardcore" because you make up your own builds ALL the time, and of course have NEVER used anything someone else did. Let people play the game how they want to, and quit judging them for it, because really, WHO CARES?!?!?!?

Um...did you really read the OP? The OP's point is simple:

Just because you ARENT using a cookie cutter build doesnt mean you cant be a good player.

This thread is a complaint to those players who pigeonhole and stereotype professions into very very few specific builds and refuse to work with them if their build is not a "proven" cookie cutter style build.

Its a very legitimate complaint.

i like cookies.

I am posting this because I was abused and harrassed for using non-cookie cutter build. The SS Necro I talked about in my thread swore at me and threw a lot of curse words at me. Does this seem justifiable to you? Do you agree with this person? Do you think it is apporpraite for somebody to harass you for not playing cookie-cutter? I was harrassed by this person and I do not like that. I find it funny you are accusing *ME* of being the culprit, while making that SS Necro look innocent. I did *not* have any problems with that necro using cookie-cutter, but that necro swore at me. It is really nice that you make the victim look like the culprit and the culprit look like the victim.

Do I use cookie-cutter myself? YES! I have played millions of different cookie-cutter builds (IWAY, Touch Ranger, Echo Nuker, Mending Wammo, E-denial Mesmer, etc) and I love them alot, HOWEVER my point was that you don't need to use cookie-cutter build to be effective.

Why would I think I am "cool" and "hardcore" for designing my own build? Anybody with an IQ of at least 65 can design their own builds. I am not praising myself for designing my own build. Anybody can do that. :S

Plz read the thread before flaming.
And you should let the OP expres his/her opinions. Thats what a Forum is for.
If you don't have something constructive to say regarding the subject then WHO CARES.

Ppl need to start showing more respect for others(players or someone posting a valid point on a forum).

I think the true value of "cookie cutter" builds are those that take them, play with them, and then ADAPT them to fit their playstyle.

No offense to anyone on the boards, but I personally am repulsed by those that simply "plug build A into my skill bar", ask for specifics on HOW to use it, and then just simple click on the buttons in the required order to catch a kill/score a win. Maybe that's just the innovative side of me saying "I personally just CAN'T do that", but I think that taking that path is the easiest way to find yourself quitting GW in a few months when you get bored.

I found it very amusing the other day when I was playing around in the Tombs and became the main Order of Pain/Order of the Vampire necromancer in a party. I was immediately scolded by the monk for not being a N/Mo..."why don't you quit, go find the standard Orders build, change your secondary and rejoin our group?" Wow...it took me 50 times playing and adjusting in Tombs to find a much more superior Orders skill combo, but I was somehow "inferior" for not being a N/Mo.

It's fascinating how dumb some players want the game to be.

I do not believe this is realistic.

Given the complex nature of PVP, there is no reasonable way to test a new build other than "trial by fire" by testing it while you are on a live team. Except, why should the other 3 people on your team be "guinea pigs" for your test, especially since it is probably handicapping them? Some of them may not want to be guinea pigs. They may be playing to win and/or get Glad points. Not to be guinea pigs for some other dude who they don't even know, who is most likely using a build that is far less useful than a cookie cutter build would have been.

I'm not saying this necessarily applies to your specific situation/build listed in this thread. But for the vast majority of the time, it does apply. That is why people do not want to take non cookie-cutter builds onto their team.

QFT.

Just because players' build employ one of the above strategies doesn't make them the Übermenschen of Guild Wars.

Live and let live. Cookie-cutter builds/strategies will always be a standby in Guild Wars, but don't be afraid to accept somebody into your party who breaks the mold. Build innovation is good.

I trimmed a little out of the middle, but this about sums it up completely. anyone and everyone has access to the same skill set and skills available. it depends on the person using those skills and their adaptiveness that will make the build work or not. this game wasnt ment to be "OMG i have this, im better than u" it was based around player skill. 2 people can take the same skills and yet one will shine at the chosen build, the other will be mediocre at best.

Most people will use the so called "cookie cutter" builds because they have been tried and they o work, but its the player behind the character that will make them effective or not. and yes there are certian builds that will ALWAYS work better than others depending on the situation, thats life. There is always something out there that will work better in another situation than what youre currently doing, but its how you adapt and respond to it that makes you successful or not.

This thread is steadily becoming more and more argumentative.

Closed.