Why should I let an assassin join my group?

I knew someone would just throw a "you're to bad, suck it up, get better" at me. Not using these words, but similiar ones ^^

I'm not a bad player and i'm honestly not suggesting to make the enemies more stupid. I'm sorry if you read that from my posts. They will still switch targets if someone is not careful enough. They will still hate the casters like they allready do.
I'm only suggesting to make the 'sin somewhat of a less priority. This doesn't affect any other class at all, this does not even require a single skillchange which would furthermore throw PVP out of balance. All it does is make an insanely hard to play class, in comparison to others, more playable so the casual player can enjoy the game a lot better. And as an added bonus the very very bad 'sin reputation could calm down a bit.
As it is now, the class is unplayable for the majority of players, resulting in a very poor performance of these players and furthermore creates a wall of game based discrimination. Have a look around, i'm not making these things up.

If a single class is much much harder to play than every other class it should be rebalanced. If it can't be rebalanced by changing skills (due to them being balanced allready, plus the PVP Side of the game) it can only be a change in the environment. The most obvious and easy change would be to simply rework the mob priority.

Take very other class out there as an example. Easy to learn, hard to master. Why exactly should the 'sin be a difference? The class has allready got the combo and energy dilemna, with the addition of a very very weak armor and a low base damage. Which other class does suffer from so many weaknesses to offset the strength of movement and conditions? Imho, not a single other class does.

On a sidenote, we maybe should cut the discussion about this here and either start a new thread in suggestions (to see more opinions as well) or end it completely.

P.S.: I hope my words don't read as a flame or flamebait. I'm a bit out of training with the language

when i play my assassin in groups, i always wait til the tank runs in head first then ill side step about until i see a gap to go for an enemy caster and pounce in and out, wait for regen then do it again. I never go for warrior like enemies unless its the only type of enemy in the mob or its one left over n at that ill attack from the back, n if i see the enemry turning i tele out of there.

so far its worked well for me.

The assassin takes a long time to learn to play it well ... or at least well enough to stay alive, which is all I claim to do.

But there is the problem with the assassin. It takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, and some study of the forum postings to make it work.

**ATTENTION** - *Before reading this post, bare in mind that I only read the first few posts of this topic, so if anything similiar to this was posted, I apologize, and I also apologize for any grammatical errors.*

Ok, I've gotta admit, being an assassin and trying to complete the game without henching it is a chore on its own. It took me all but two days to get out of arborstone because groups would not take me, and the final part of the mission is quite hard with henchman. I ended up beating the mission with a very good friend of mine (barrage ranger) and the rest henchman. What really got me ticked is when a group said, "Looking for 2 more, Have monks already, invite self". Naturally I invited myself. Well as soon as I did, I got rejected. I looked and saw the group still had the same amount of people, so I assumed the leader had accidently hit reject. Well, I invited myself again, and was accepted into the group. As soon as I joined, the leader said, "Hi noob assassin, bye noob assassin," and I was immediatly kicked from the group. This really got me mad, and it takes a hefty amount of anything to get me mad. I am not a person who spams stuff, or annoys people, much less talks to anybody in a mission. I quietly look for a group, and then do the mission like im supposed to. But this really got to me. Well off of this stupid sob story and back to what I originally came here to post. After running a countless amount of builds, I have discovered 2 that in my opinion, work well for both pve and pvp. The later build is probably commonly seen in pvp, but I haven't watched many assassins pvp. I'll start off with my first build:

Recommended Daggers: 15^50, 20/20, +30 (if using recall, Zealous Mod might be better for you than 20/20, but if using Death's Charge, go for 20/20)
Dagger Mastery: 12+1+3
Shadow Arts: 10+1
Critical Strikes: 8
Skills:
1.Leaping Mantis Strike
2.Jungle Strike
3.Horns of the Ox
4.Moebius Strike (Elite)
5.Recall (or Death's Charge, downside is 45 sec recharge)
6.Dark Escape
7.Shadow Refuge
8.Resurrection Signet
Discussion: This is a more pve oriented build. Plain and simple, the first 3 attacks are the most worth while in my opinion for any assassin. They all have a low energy cost, do good damage for the cost, and have some pretty nice things included with each (crippling, +dmg to crippling, and knockdown). What makes this build is Moebius strike. This allows the instant recharge of your attack skills, if the enemy is below 50% health (which most squishies are after you have pounded on them with your first 3 attacks). Doing this allows you to keep a constant assault on the enemy granted you arn't being attacked. This is why i placed recall in the line up. Since Moebius uses your elite, AOD is out of the option. I've found it is better not to shadow step to the enemy in pve, because for some reason, it usually ends up bad, even if you didn't begin the assault, which no assassin should ever begin the assault. Just place recall on one of your spellcasters, or a ranger and if things get bad, get the funk out. You also have Dark Escape as an alternative escape. You can throw in deaths charge if you insist on shadow stepping to the foe, and you can dark escape out, but that has a large recharge, and is not recommended. Another bad thing about this build is the place where you cap Moebius, it is outside eternal grove, and is a bit of the ways into the game, so if you are no to this point, try my alternative build below. It is more pvp set, but works nicely in pve as well.

Recommended Daggers: 15^50, Zealous, +30
Dagger Mastery: 12+1+3
Shadow Arts: 10+1
Critical Strikes: 8
Skills:
1.Leaping Mantis Strike
2.Jungle Strike
3.Horns of the Ox
4.Falling Spider
5.Aura of Displacement (Elite)
6.Dark Escape
7.Shadow Refuge
8.Resurrection Signet
Discussion: This is probably a common dagger build in pvp, but granted I don't do much pvp, and haven't really seen many assassins pvp, but it works well for pve. AOD is a fairly easy cap, and it is right outside of House Zu Heltzer, so you can get it fairly early on. AOD allows for excellent hit and runs, and you rfirst 4 attacks add a large amount of damage for you, with the possibilty of some degen in the end. With the Zealous mod you will be getting +1 energy every hit, and a chance for +2 more every hit from critical strikes, so energy management is never a problem. Also, if for some reason AOD is in cooldown, Dark Escape out if things get nasty. Pretty much though, the build explains itself. Now, for the assassins that are not able to cap either of these elites, below is a little build that can help you up to the point of capping AOD.

Recommended Daggers: 15^50, Zealous, +30
Dagger Mastery: 12+1+3
Shadow Arts: 8
Critical Strikes: 10+1
Skills:
1.Palm Strike (Elite)
2.Horns of the Ox
3.Falling Spider
4.Golden Lotus Strike
5.Sharpen Daggers
6.Recall
7.Shadow Refuge
8.Resurrection Signet
Discussion: This is a simple build, with an early elite cap. Start by sharpening your daggers, then just spam your first 2 skills, and if the foe ever gets knocked down, just hit them with falling spider for extra damage and more possible degen. If your energy gets low(make sure you are still enchanted with Sharpen Daggers) Throw out a Lotus strike for some more energy. The rest of the build explains itself.

Now, I gave you some builds, so what is the use of the assassin in your group? Killing Squishies. The best use for the assassin, is to wait for the tank and or ranger to pull, and rather the tank try and run through the group to get to a healer or another high damaging spell class, let the assassin do it. The tank is better to keep the other warriors or assassins busy, and off your groups healers and spell casters. An assassin on his own can take out a healer very quickly, as well as other classes like ritualists, eles, mesmers, and necros. He of course needs to be careful against classes like ele and mesmer, spiking and empathy can drop him quick. The assassins quick attacking and high damage, and some aid from another spellcaster or two from your group, you can make short work of all the enemy squishies. After his work is done with them, he can then add in the assault on the other melee class enemies, but he should be very careful when doing so, if they turn on him, he needs to move out, because chances are, he won't last. Now granted, not everyone is gonna use these builds, they may have found something out that works better for them. The best way of picking out the better assassins, are to ask. Ask them a question that gives them the opportunity to explain there build in short terms. If they answer something along the lines like, "I'm Uber Hit and Rune", or something of the like, chances are they will only bring despair to your group. If they answer something along the lines like, "After the assault has begun, I'll shadow step to a healer or spellcaster, attack, then get away," you will probably be safe with this person. Seeing as they explain in more detail instead of using internet slang, it usually means they put more thought into things than stupidity. Of course, this is not always the case. You can't always tell about a person, it is best to just give everyone a chance. If they end up causing your group to wipe, o well, try it again. Any class can make a group wipe, but the big discrimination so to speak against assassins is ridiculous. Please everyone, let all the assassins have a chance, there are some good ones out there.

The thing I do with my assasin now is tell the Monk\s in the group that I only bring Healing Breeze and Ressurect. That let's them know I am not gonna tank it with Mending and other Healing Prayer skills. Hell all I need to keep myself alive is Healing Breeze. I found constanly maintaining Mending got boring after a while. As for Vecte's builds maybe I will try them out.

the only bad thing i found with assassin, but not really all that bad, is their lack of healing. shadow refuge is very nice, and death's charge can somewhat help, it still is hard to self heal.

my thoughts on using heals outside of the assassin are kind of, harsh i guess you would say. Using skills from a secondary profession require you to put points into that trait. this is going to take away from your assassin attributes. IMO!, all sins should run points in dagger mastery and critical strikes. if you are using a secondary profession skill, it leaves you without points on shadow. this can hurt other skills, especially the very common dark escape, which is almost a must in every build. this is why i chose to stick with an all assassin build. As for secondary proffession, monk is a good choice if you plan yo use the skills, especially if you are a deadly arts assassin, but those are few and far between.

of course, everyone needs to use what works best for them.

My son plays an assasin and I'm letting him learn the hard way that Assasins aren't tanks. He's twelve and backing off isn't in his vocabulary, yet.

A big help for assasins in pve would be a base ten damage reduction skill that lasted 4 seconds and took 30 seconds to recast. They probably already have one of these?

well, if he plays a/w there is an option there. instead of shadow arts points, if he is using them, use tactics points instead. add in watch yourself and healing signet. healing signet will replace shadow refuge for the lose of shadow arts points, and watch yourself will give him +20 armor, as well as the rest of his nearby allies +20 armor. this helps him, and the party. also, losing shadow arts makes you lose dark escape, so i would add in the warrior skill rush. using these skills will also reduce his energy usage a good deal, and will let him continuously use his attack skills without a great worry for energy.

the above will work, but imo, i don't recommend it to anyone. like said multiple times before, assassins arnt meant to tank, and it seems that is what your son is doing. he needs to learn the basic fundementals of the assassin. he shouldnt be focusing on things that hit him hard, like warriors, or other assassins for that matter, he needs to focus on the squishies like monks and other spellcasters. if you want, i can play with your some son, and help him out with his build. but, that is entirely up to you.

edit: if for some reason he can't be broken from the tanking thing, below is a build that can work. still, i would not recommend it.

Dagger Mastery: 12+3 (Needs sup dagger rune)
Tactics: 10
Critical Strikes: 8+1+1 (Needs critical strike mask and minor crit rune)
Skills:
1.Palm Strike (Elite)
2.Horns of the Ox
3.Falling Spider
4.Blades of Steel
5."Watch Yourself!"
6.Rush
7.Healing Signet
8.Resurrection Signet

This build won't kill his energy, and it will dish out the damage. He should only use rush as an escape to get away and heal. Of course, he should never use healing signet when he is up close to, or being attacked by a physical damaging class, because he will definitly get rocked.

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